Title: *BRUTAL TRUTH DEBATE*: Christian vs. Muslim; Christ vs. Muhammad/Bible vs. Koran (Fascinating Listen) Source:
You Tube URL Source:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVU3 ... ist&p=8DF2F55C1F8C5A75&index=2 Published:Feb 28, 2008 Author:Dave Hunt Post Date:2009-12-13 03:17:12 by Liberator Keywords:Christianity, Islam, debate Views:68309 Comments:164
This is a debate between Dave Hunt and Shabir Ally in Toronto Canada in 2008. Christianity vs. Islam.
Hunt's credentials and scholarship are impeccable as is his courage. As the author of over 4,000,000 books (of which three I own), you will see and hear him NOT mince any words about the deeply flawed Muhammad, and how deeply flawed the Koran is. No candy-coated PC-Speak here.
He compares and contrasts the Koran vs. Bible convincingly, with conviction and armed with facts. Chances are none of us will ever see another non-compromising debate of this kind ever.
This is Part 3 which blends seamlessly into Part 4, into Part 5 and so on. Hunt's politely yet firmly continues to delve into the stark differences between the two belief systems.
Thanks for the ping. I'm halfway through my essay and don't have time to listen to this right now, but I will get back to it later today or tomorrow.
Your God is One God: There is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
I'll let you guess where that came from.
It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous. Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!
As you search for the reality, may you find strength and solace to comprehend this profound revelation. Let yourself cry knowing each tear is a note of love rising to the heavens above. Learn to lean on your friends for strength and support to avoid unilateral or selective reaction as you continue your burden in life.
Correction: terrorism is the tactic of muslims, Islam is the religon of and guiding principal of terrorist.
Islam is an insane murder cult.......nothing more,,,,nothing less. These defenders of this death cult are as dangerous as the cultist themselves and all are a threat to all of humanity.
Correction: terrorism is the tactic of muslims, Islam is the religon of and guiding principal of terrorist.
I find no disagreement here. You are in agreement with my point that terrorism is defined and acknowledged as a tactic. And I am in agreement that terrorism has been a tactic used by some Muslims who feel they used Islam as a religious guiding principle in the conduct of their terrorist activity.
You TRYING to lecture me then acting worse than I have has a name.
"Do as I say, NOT as I DO" is called HYPOCRISY.
Keep your attempts to pose as having ANY sort of "moral" superiority aimed at small children and dumb animals, you mealy mouthed hypocrite, they will believe you.
Ignore the insulting tongue. Duck the provoking blow. Run from the assault of the strong. The wild boar runs from the tiger, knowing that each be well-armed by nature with deadly strength, may kill the other. Running, he saves his own life and that of the tiger. This is not cowardice. It is the love of life. -- Master Kahn
"You TRYING to lecture me then acting worse than I have has a name.
"Do as I say, NOT as I DO" is called HYPOCRISY.
Keep your attempts to pose as having ANY sort of "moral" superiority aimed at small children and dumb animals, you mealy mouthed hypocrite, they will believe you."
Truth has been one of the largest topics of discussion for thousands of years.
The problem with truth is that in a way it is not easy to state: what truths are, and what (if anything) makes them true.
But this simple statement masks a great deal of controversy.
There is a metaphysical problem of truth and what kind of theory might address it.
The standing issue in the theory of truth: What makes truth – be true?
If I never lie again, can I be the same me as I was before? -- Alethea Each waking moment is as a rung on an endless ladder. Each step we take is built on what has gone before. -- Caine
I want to ask you the same series of questions I posted on another thread. This is what ever you wish to call it. I call it food for thought.
Jews don't celebrate Christmas. A lot of people don't celebrate Christmas. Did you know that only approx 33% of the worlds population consider themselves Christian? 22% consider themselves Muslim. The number of people who convert to Islam is growing at a much faster rate than those converting to Christianity. About 76% of Americans consider themselves of a Christian faith of one denominations or another. The nuber who chose basic Christianity is much less than that, approx 2/3 less.
So, if Obama chooses not to celebrate Christmas the way your average Christian does, why would that bother you? Do we not have the freedom to choose our own religion in the US? Furthermore, why would you be suprised? You already know what type of bigoted "Christian" church he attended for many years. Did you actually believe he was a real Christian and therefore would hold the same Christian values that real Christians hold?
This leads me to another question. Do you think the only presidents we should ever elect should be those of a Christian faith? What about Mormons? Are they eligible? Jews? Buhddists? Hindus? Pagans? Wiccans? Muslims? In a world were we are to be free and be able to freely practice our religions of choice, should we now ban some religions and not others? And who gets to determine which ones are allowed and which ones are not? In China, the Government is officially athiest. It took some time to get them to accept some religions, but others are still banned. Should we do the same in America? Or should Christianity be considered the official religion of the US? So which is it? We would be hypocrits in the eyes of Jesus if we preach such freedoms and pass laws to limit them at the same time. We would surely be damned to hell for such practices.
It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous. Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!
It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous. Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!
LOL! It SO Figures that YOU would paraphrase Pontious pilot, esp in the context of THIS particular "discussion".
It is such a blatant attempt to change the subject in this context.
What does the koran say? What is the actual Arabic text? What does islam teach? What do the imams teach/preach? What is islam's dogma? What is islam's self stated history? What do the actual islamic source documents say?
ALL of the answers to these particular questions are a matter of obvious FACT. They are NOT in any honest dispute, esp. on any "metaphysical" basis.
If you questioned the existence of God, or of al ha ha, you would have a point. But this is a very simple matter.
The TRUTH is that you either don't know a d@mned thing about islam, or you are a liar who has a pro moo slum/islam agenda, and are interested in hiding the TRUTH about islam. I guess that you might just be a mentally limited person also?
But any way that you cut it, all in all, it is a VERY clumsy, and lame attempt, to change the subject.
But you have already shown that you are not an intellectually honest person here.
I want to ask you the same series of questions I posted on another thread. This is what ever you wish to call it. I call it food for thought.
1.) Jews don't celebrate Christmas. A lot of people don't celebrate Christmas. Did you know that only approx 33% of the worlds population consider themselves Christian? 22% consider themselves Muslim. The number of people who convert to Islam is growing at a much faster rate than those converting to Christianity. About 76% of Americans consider themselves of a Christian faith of one denominations or another. The nuber who chose basic Christianity is much less than that, approx 2/3 less.
2.) So, if Obama chooses not to celebrate Christmas the way your average Christian does, why would that bother you? Do we not have the freedom to choose our own religion in the US? Furthermore, why would you be suprised? You already know what type of bigoted "Christian" church he attended for many years. Did you actually believe he was a real Christian and therefore would hold the same Christian values that real Christians hold?
3.) This leads me to another question. Do you think the only presidents we should ever elect should be those of a Christian faith? What about Mormons? Are they eligible? Jews? Buhddists? Hindus? Pagans? Wiccans? Muslims? In a world were we are to be free and be able to freely practice our religions of choice, should we now ban some religions and not others? And who gets to determine which ones are allowed and which ones are not? In China, the Government is officially athiest. It took some time to get them to accept some religions, but others are still banned. Should we do the same in America? Or should Christianity be considered the official religion of the US? So which is it? We would be hypocrits in the eyes of Jesus if we preach such freedoms and pass laws to limit them at the same time. We would surely be damned to hell for such practices.
1.) That is not correct, many Jews do "celebrate" Christmas. In fact many non-Christians worldwide "celebrate" Christmas. Again you post numbers without citing the sources. So those numbers in this discussion mean absolutely nothing.
I note that you totally ignore the effects of the fact that all children born to islamic parents are considered to be moo slums by islam, and that the penalty for islamic apostacy is death, effects on the inflated numbers claimed by islam.
But really no matter what, so what? Who cares?
What happens between an individual and GOD is not my business. I see no biblical requirement to "celebrate" Christmas, where do YOU see it?
2.) LOL! It is important because he CLAIMS to be a "mainstream American Christian" and "mainstream American Christians" by and large celebrate Christmas. Of course he has the right to be whatever he wants to be. But if he is not a "main stream Christian" he LIED to America.
It is also important because no matter how you gin up the numbers, the vast majority of Americans ARE self professed Christians, and the messiah "king" obammy by breaking this specific TRADITION is purposely insulting us all.
I never believed that that stalinist scum was anything but the enemy of ALL things American. I wouldn't believe him if he said that it was daylight at high noon.
Do you know the difference between the messiah "king" obammy and GOD?
GOD doesn't think that he is obammy.
LOL!
3.) Already mostly answered.
There is no official religion of America, and that is one of the basic ideas of America since our founding. I certainly don't support such nonsense. Nor does anybody or any religion, (except islam and moo slums of course).
But I don't think that any moo slum should hold any position of public power and trust.
Would you have supported a Japanese American presidential candidate during WW2?
If so, you really are a deluded Polly Annish PC fool imo.
"The bill of rights is NOT a suicide pact."
Btw; don't you even TRY to speak for Jesus. Jesus hates satan, and islam is the tool of satan IMO.
Well...You've turned out to be quite the hypocrit. That's not very Christian- like.
Jesus loves everyone, including his enemies. He has stated that.
Thanks for proving you too are incapable of addressing legitamate questions and concerns.
Hypocrites! It was you Isaiah meant when he so rightly prophesied: “This people honors me only with lip service / while their hearts are far from me. / The worship they offer me is worthless; / the doctrines they teach are only human regulations.”24 He called the people to him and said, “Listen, and understand. What goes into the mouth does not make a man unclean; it is what comes out of the mouth that makes him unclean. . . . For things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and it is these that make a man unclean. For from the heart come evil intentions. . . . But to eat with unwashed hands does not make a man unclean.”25 . . . “Alas for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You who are like whitewashed tombs that look handsome on the outside, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and every kind of corruption. In the same way you appear to people from the outside like good honest men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.”
It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous. Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!
That you can not even see your own hypocrisy says so much about who you really are. I suggest you refresh your memory on what Jesus had commanded you to do.
It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous. Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!
PS...Thanks for proving you, too, are incapable of addressing legitamate questions and concerns.
It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous. Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!
It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous. Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!
You know mel, it says all that anybody needs to know about YOU, that YOU think that YOU can question another Christian's faith, and lecture them on what YOU believe to be "correct" Christian behavior.
Your absolutely stunning ignorance of islam is the subject. Your factually WRONG delusions about islam and your insistence that you, who are completely ignorant of the subject, are correct in your specious assertions is the subject.
But I understand that you NEED to pose as "open minded" and all the rest of the PC drivel that your sort roll in.
The verse that you quoted applies alot more to you than it does to me. I'm not trying to pretend to speak for the Lord, or to have the monopoly on true belief.
In fact who was it who injected my putative faith into this discussion in a lame attempt to change the subject from your abject failure to know or understand the FACTS about islam?
Yep, YOU are certainly a hypocrite, at the very least.
Jesus loves everyone, including his enemies. He has stated that.
"I have loved you,” says the LORD. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet dI have loved Jacob 3 but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.” The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001. Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.
MALACHI 1:3—If God is love, how could He hate any person?
PROBLEM: In the latter part of verse 2 and the first part of verse 3, God says, “Yet Jacob I have loved; But Esau I have hated.” But, John says, “God is love” (1 John 4:16). How can a God of love hate any one person?
YOU think that YOU can question another Christian's faith, and lecture them on what YOU believe to be "correct" Christian behavior.
That's YOUR practice, not normally mine. I simply "Do unto others as they do unto me". I admit, that it is wrong, as I am supposed to "do unto to others as I would want then to do unto me". I never expected you to be the bigoted, superficial person that you are. I always believed that you judged people according to their character and not their religion. I see I have errored in my thinking and it pains me to make this realization, but it is something I must go through. If ever you with to actually address the questions I asked rationally, I will be around to listen.
Have a good night - May the Lord watch over you while you sleep and bless you with a beautiful day when you wake.
It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous. Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!
PROBLEM: In the latter part of verse 2 and the first part of verse 3, God says, “Yet Jacob I have loved; But Esau I have hated.” But, John says, “God is love” (1 John 4:16). How can a God of love hate any one person?
The one person really, REALLY pissed him off?
______________________________________________________________ tag ... you're it.
PROBLEM: In the latter part of verse 2 and the first part of verse 3, God says, “Yet Jacob I have loved; But Esau I have hated.” But, John says, “God is love” (1 John 4:16). How can a God of love hate any one person?
Jesus commands the people to not only love thy neighbor as theyself, but to also love thy enemies.
Is not Jesus the same as God? Is not Jesus God incarnate?
Who Jesus is, is the beginning of the problems. The Roman Catholic church split in tow - the East and the West, mainly out of argument of who Jesus is and who should be worshipped. Is God the one and only true God? Should our prayers be directed towards him and only to him? Then why the symbols of the Virgin Mary, the other saints, and Jesus on the cross?
It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous. Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!
#48. To: Tater, Mad Dog, mel, A K A Stone, Joe Snuffy, GarySpFC, BobCeleste, All (#2)
Is terrorism the enemy or is Islam the enemy – “Both” is not an answer.
What ISN'T an "answer" is your bilge.
"Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion" ~ Webster's Dictionary
"Terrorism can be defined as simply an extreme form of political expression" ~ Tater
Guess what? YOUR apologist definition of "Terrorism" is universally condemned as a crime against humanity. Your definition also happens to mirror the tenets of Islam, Muhammad himself, and its Koran.
I was unfamiliar with Hunt . I knew most of the info that he stated in the video. Because I have been looking at islam since 11 September 2001, trying to find out the TRUTH about it.
I'd recommend that people who want to know the truth start at these three places,
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/
http://www.memri.org/
http://www.danielpipes.org/bios/
He IS a brave man, esp. to do it in Canukistan, with their absurd PC laws.
You're welcome, MD, and thanks for your links...
Dave Hunt tells it like it is. If you get the chance, check out some of his books...
Funny how an honest, unfiltered debate like this about who Muhammad was, how the Koran was written, and how and why it came to condone violence and terror could be held in Canada of all places....but probably no where in the U.S.
Mel knocked you side of the head a few times in her attempt to get your pompous , self righteous, blowhard a** to consider what she had to say – you didn’t like the beating and you didn’t understand what she had to say because you did not listen to her.
She got your goat! It is virtually impossible to listen when you are mad.
She did make you prove that you are totally incapable of addressing legitimate questions and concerns.
She nailed that Right On!
She pointed out that you can’t listen with your brain in reverse and your fingers in gear on the keyboard.
She displayed evidence that you are not ready to listen to anyone, because you are far to busy listening to your own mouth while pretending to be and playing like you are Charlemagne of the Internet Crusade. (LOL – Just made that one up – Like it)!
You fail to realize that when one is called to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ it must be through action characterized by humility. To choose to act as a mighty conqueror because you try to rule that way with the strong overcoming the weaker by dominating words lets everything you say go unmurmuring to places men despise.
The idea of strength in humility, of conquering through weakness, is a hidden truth, but it is found in the most obscure and mystical of wisdom through human history. You fail to realize that humility is usually the lot of those who love wisdom.
The lesson to be learned is that the Path of Humility that Jesus walked is not only something he did to make salvation possible, but should serve as a model for growth in Christ-likeness. This is a lesson learned with age.
While you get excited about mastering Mel’s thoughts and trying to overpower her through brute main strength – the end result will only prove that she'll pin you every time.
Yep, ole Delilah Mel sure cut off all of old Mad Dog Samson's hair – How does it feel now, BALDY?
Jesus commands the people to not only love thy neighbor as theyself, but to also love thy enemies.
Is not Jesus the same as God? Is not Jesus God incarnate?
Who Jesus is, is the beginning of the problems. The Roman Catholic church split in tow - the East and the West, mainly out of argument of who Jesus is and who should be worshipped. Is God the one and only true God? Should our prayers be directed towards him and only to him? Then why the symbols of the Virgin Mary, the other saints, and Jesus on the cross?
You didn't even begin to address the question. Your answer was fluff, nothing more.
She did make you prove that you are totally incapable of addressing legitimate questions and concerns. She pointed out that you can’t listen...
Isn't that funny? "Legitimate questions"?? HA!
You yourself deliriously defined "terrorism" as what again?? "An extreme form of political expression"?? ROFLMAO!
The case WAS made ad nauseum, but the two of you conveniently and continually deny the truth about Islam while slathering over Turd-Pie with whipped cream.
Pathological Liars usually do so in the face of even overwhelming evidence.
I would have to say in the same way you or I could hate one person. I love everyone, even those with faults. People are who they are and nothing will ever change that. It is possible to love and hate a person at the same time. I hate my brother with a passion you may or may not ever understand, but, he is my brother and a part of me will always love him.
It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous. Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!
