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Title: Getting Butthurt in Debates Shouldn’t Prevent Libertarians From Working Together
Source:
Being Libertarian
URL Source: https://beinglibertarian.com/category/philosophy/
Published: Jul 9, 2017
Author: Luke Henderson
Post Date: 2017-07-10 05:26:51 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 5223
Comments: 26
There’s already plenty of articles about how libertarians shouldn’t be as divided as we are and how the infighting will prevent us from making progress, but there’s a specific item that I wanted to address in regards to this division between different factions of libertarians. It has been highlighted to me most recently by the current dispute between some Anarchyball editor, and Jared Howe, and recent debates between anarchists and minarchists. These debates always seem to be end in hurt feelings, or plain ad hominem attacks. Open borders supporters call closed border supporters fascists, while the latter calls the former communists. Anarchists claim that minarchists need to open their eyes and stop being sheep, while minarchists claim that anarchists are idealists with no real answers. These are great topics for debate, but libertarians can’t let these differences in ideas stop them from the ultimate goal: liberty that consists of individualism, natural rights and property rights. So, allow me to ask some questions: Is society at the point yet where it matters if our ideologies lean towards some form of state, or none at all? Is the welfare state small enough where debating between open or closed borders is relevant? Are property rights even remotely existent in today’s society? By asking these questions, I am not saying that libertarians shouldn’t be having these debates, but it shouldn’t become a point of division. Discussions in the theoretical realm of each person’s perfect libertarian society can assist in bettering the ideals and maybe converting some to other factions within libertarianism, but the butthurt and shunning needs to cease. The goals of liberty lovers are so overlapping at this point, because of the massive, intrusive government currently in place, that we should be working together to strip away the power of the state in general. An anarchist society, minarchist society, or a constitutionalist society will not happen overnight. Libertarians need to think of the long-game, which currently should be about decreasing the amount of regulations, eliminating victimless crime laws, and chipping away at the statist mindset of the general population. So, let’s all fight to end silly regulations within our communities. Let’s fight to have marijuana legalized nationwide. Let’s fight to create or fund alternatives to government services to demonstrate the inefficiency of the state. Let us fight for these things and not fight with each other. Until the time comes when it truly matters to debate the amount of government society should have, we should unite. Thomas Jefferson once said, “I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend,” and while I may sincerely disagree with anarchists, classical liberals and conservatarians, I still consider each of these liberty-minded individuals a companion and a comrade (and not in the Stalin sense). The end goal is liberty, and while everyone is going to have a different definition of it, the current predicament in the country should be enough for libertarians to put their differences aside to make some change.
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#1. To: All (#0)
Working as a shadow party within a party is essentially a system that is unviable. The libertarian obstructionists in Congress who insist on their way or no way need to have a come to Jesus moment to face the truth of the matter with a sudden intuitive insight into the reality of reassessing priorities. Those acting like spoiled kids need to realize that are still ways to work within the system and handle the politics without constantly trying to upend a system that has on balance worked pretty well for over 200 years.
Good grief! You really believe that shit? "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." This was originally written in 1996 - it's getting closer to the day when the only recourse left is to shoot (or hang) the bastards. The police state is becoming more entrenched by the day, and quislings like you cheer the tyranny. Can you give us an example of how the government tyranized you personally? Do they stop you on your way to work? Do they randomly come to your house? Do they come and beat you up? Do they fuck your wife? Do they pick on your kids? What did they do to you personally?
The minarchists do tend to pick fights but the anarchists are worse. They kinda deserve each other.
Didn't you get roughed up by the local cops once? Anyway, that was my recollection.
Good grief! You really believe that? That concept is so simplistically true that even a libertarian idiot should understand it. Why does understanding it give you so much trouble? With all the political correctness that has now invoked silence on so called slang, pejorative and hateful words even some of the finest citizens have been caught up to say they hate cops….that they’re corrupt, lazy, pompous and stupid. Oh some are, probably 1 percent. But does the action of that 1 percent call for unleashing such a vendetta against cops? Hardly not? So, there must be other reasons. Why don’t you state your reasons? When events happen, even those that can be deemed normal or neutral, the police are not allowed to narrate or explain the event. The public is only allowed to hear one side. There is no “Al Sharpton” to step out and speak on behalf of the police. All we get to see is partial raw videos that never show the beginning cause and listen to angry relatives and biased activists. It is always bad news for the cops with never a police perspective….is it? You “hate cops” assholes are constant Internet trumpets with your clarion blaring discordant presence. A simple “Google” will bring up endless amounts of random noise rants and more importantly it brings up organized hate movements such as those your promote. You fail to realize the seeds of hate you sow when your antagonistic and divisive rhetoric spreads to become contagious and eventually jeopardizes cops safety on the streets. There is never a focus on “Positive Policing.” Why is that? Telling success stories about the good actions of cops on forums and social media can help balance negative stories to place everything into a proper perspective. But some don’t want a proper perspective….all they want is to spread HATE.
Have you ever been roughed up by the cops? Is there a reason why as of late you have joined Deckard’s inner sanctum on the hate cop threads? Oh, don’t you dare deny you have not …
Oh geesh! Not this shit again. Yes, and they are quite robust. If somebody steals something of mine that is of great value, he will do some hard time. What property rights are not, and never can be in the real world, are absolute. This is where libertarians go berserk and lose the thread of reality.
Nothing new here …
You really like making shit up, don't you? Careful with the Panic: Violent Crime and Gun Crime Are Both Dropping Today, the national crime rate is about half of what it was at its height in 1991. Violent crime has fallen by 51 percent since 1991, and property crime by 43 percent. In 2013 the violent crime rate was the lowest since 1970. And this holds true for unreported crimes as well. According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, since 1993 the rate of violent crime has declined from 79.8 to 23.2 victimizations per 1,000 people. Here’s the trend since 1960. As you will see, the lines go up and then the lines go down. This is A Good Thing. Do Americans know this? Apparently not, no: Government statistics show that, except for some small blips, serious crime has decreased almost every year from 1994 through 2013. For over a decade Gallup has found that the majority of Americans polled believe crime is up, contrary to the fact that crime rates have plummeted in almost every small and large city since the 1990s. This is not to say that all cities and areas are experiencing decreases in violent crime year after year, but the overall rate of violent crime is significantly lower than historic levels.Brookings. The same trend is evident in the realm of “gun crime.” Per a Pew analysis of DOJ statistics: Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades. Non sequitur. How many of those in that graph chart died when someone walked up to the window of their car and ambushed them by shooting them in their head? Keep “egging on the violence against cops” you libertarian asshole …
Not Really. I am sure some folks in Chicago will be pleased to learn this. Tell us....how may were shot there "this" weekend?
Property rights are governed by laws made by representatives of the people. It is you libertarians who think you can pick and choose which laws you wish to obey and which you can ignore. But, Sport....it doesn't work that way...
I point out the corruption and criminality that is evident in many of the "heroes" who work in Law Enforcement. DEA Allowed Criminal Cops to Build Their Own Drug Empires for Over a Decade I'm not egging on any violence. Law Enforcement? When did that become a thing? When did we go from we go from Officer Friendly to today's heavily militarized cops. Being a cop is safer than any of those occupations listed above. Cop groupies like you believe otherwise.
In December, King said an anonymous complaint led to an arrest citation. It details "overgrowth" in her yard and said she's violating a city code that prohibits "excessive growth." "We asked him for a definition of excessive, which he could not provide," King said. You are a lying asshole!!!!
So King said ... And because that was the only statement made....we are to completely believe that is the entireity of the exchange? You can....but I will not form an opinion on something presenting from only one side.
Libertarians need to stop acting like demigods thinking they are a national party with the prominence to support national ambitions. If libertarians wish to get anything accomplished, they MUST for strategic partnerships with the Republicans. Otherwise, libertarians will continue doing what they have always done….pissing into the wind. This may sound to libertarians like apostasy and selling out, but it is not. What it is….it is as I have someone say many times: “The Art of the Deal.”
You are a lying asshole!!!! Frankly Gatslime - it's you, whitey and the other cop worshipers here who are egging on the violence - committed by police against unarmed and innocent citizens. Of course not. But I seem to recall that Stone mentioned an incident where he was. I don't think I have, Granny Gatlin. I find his regular half-dozen-straight cop-hater threads as annoying as your regular half-dozen-straight liberty-hater threads in our sidebar. Talk about wallpapering a forum with your own fetish...
No the Kentucky cops. They deserve to die.
Ah. You sound a little less forgiving of them this time. When you told us about it before, you seemed remarkably mellow to me, considering the level of abuse.
Getting Butthurt in Debates Shouldn’t Prevent Libertarians From Working Together
The author is of course speaking about libertarians working with other libertarians. However that should not be the primary concern for libertarians at this time. What is of the utmost most importance now is those who wish to call themselves in libertarians currently serving in Congress should stop being despicable temperamental assholes with an inflated view of their own talent trying to show their importance and begin working within the system. They need stop running in little circles like dogs chasing their tails….constantly going around and around while going nowhere.
#2. To: Gatlin (#1)
...need to realize that are still ways to work within the system...
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#3. To: Deckard (#2)
The police state is becoming more entrenched by the day, and quislings like you cheer the tyranny.
#4. To: Gatlin (#0)
#5. To: A K A Stone (#3)
Do they come and beat you up?
#6. To: Deckard (#2)
...need to realize that are still ways to work within the system...
Of course I believe that. You have been verbalizing for how long now about making changes from “outside” the system. How has that been working out for you? Dalai Lama once said: “A genuine change must first come from within the individual, only then can he or she attempt to make a significant contribution to humanity.”
The Dalai Lama is correct. The only way to make a genuine change is to work “within” the system for change. The police state is becoming more entrenched by the day, and quislings like you cheer the tyranny.
Nope! It is violent crime that is becoming more entrenched by the day. I recall a 2015 report revealed there was an increase in violent crimes in the United States. So, what you are seeing is an increase in police activity to counter the increase in violent crimes and it is libertarian assholes like you along with anarchists, activists, attorneys, academicians and arrested person’s relatives in subcultures of crime and conflict who act as bleeding hearts to promote “hating the cops” who are doing thei jobs.
#7. To: Tooconservative, A K A Stone (#5)
#8. To: Gatlin (#6)
jeopardizes cops safety on the streets.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#9. To: Gatlin (#0)
Are property rights even remotely existent in today's society?
#10. To: All (#0)
There’s already plenty of articles about how libertarians shouldn’t be as divided as we are and how the infighting will prevent us from making progress, but there’s a specific item that I wanted to address in regards to this division between different factions of libertarians.
Proving once again that libertarians never listen to those outside their circle, they will not even listen to other libertarians.
#11. To: Gatlin (#6)
It is violent crime that is becoming more entrenched by the day. I recall a 2015 report revealed there was an increase in violent crimes in the United States.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#12. To: Deckard (#8)
#13. To: Gatlin (#0)
Are property rights even remotely existent in today’s society?
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#14. To: Deckard (#11)
Violent Crime and Gun Crime Are Both Dropping
#15. To: Deckard (#13)
#16. To: Gatlin (#12)
Keep “egging on the violence against cops” you libertarian asshole …
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#17. To: All (#15)
These [libertarian] debates always seem to be end in hurt feelings, or plain ad hominem attacks. Open borders supporters call closed border supporters fascists, while the latter calls the former communists. Anarchists claim that minarchists need to open their eyes and stop being sheep, while minarchists claim that anarchists are idealists with no real answers.
If libertarian infighting looks so ridiculous to another libertarian….you libertarians should stop and realize how ridiculous the libertarians in Congress look with their obstructionist posturing to systematically block or interrupt the political process. Especially when they attempt to impede passage of legislation for their own self serving reasons.
#18. To: Gatlin (#15)
Property rights are governed by laws made by representatives of the people.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#19. To: Deckard (#16)
I'm not egging on any violence.
#20. To: Deckard (#18)
"We asked him for a definition of excessive, which he could not provide," King said.
#21. To: All (#20)
[Libertarians] should be working together to strip away the power of the state in general.
No! Right now you libertarian assholes should be working together to get a healthcare bill and a tax approved so the President can sign them into law.
#22. To: Gatlin (#19)
(Edited)
I'm not egging on any violence.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#23. To: Gatlin, A K A Stone, Deckard (#7)
(Edited)
Have you ever been roughed up by the cops?
Is there a reason why as of late you have joined Deckard’s inner sanctum on the hate cop threads? Oh, don’t you dare deny you have not …
#24. To: Tooconservative (#5)
#25. To: A K A Stone (#24)
No the Kentucky cops. They deserve to die.
#26. To: Deckard (#16)
When did we go from we go from Officer Friendly to today's heavily militarized cops.
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