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Title: Gust of Wind Traps Baby Inside Locked Car. Mom Calls 911 for Help. Mom Gets Ticketed by Police.
Source:
Reason
URL Source: http://reason.com/blog/2017/06/19/g ... nd-traps-baby-inside-locked-ca
Published: Jun 19, 2017
Author: Lenore Skenazy
Post Date: 2017-07-06 10:37:48 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 4700
Comments: 38
Omaha, Nebraska: A woman taking her niece out of the SUV after an outing to the pool was shocked when the wind blew the door shut with her keys and the child inside. The car automatically locked. The aunt, the girl's mom, and two other relatives frantically tried to get the door open using a hanger and screwdriver, and, when they couldn't, they called 911. The cops arrived, broke the window, and got the child out, safe and sound. Then the cops ticketed the mom on suspicion of child abuse by neglect. As The Omaha World-Herald reports: Lt. Darci Tierney, a police spokeswoman, said the ticket was not an overreaction by the officer who responded to the 911 call. "We make decisions in the moment with all the information we have available,'' she said. "This can be a super dangerous situation. People die in these circumstances." The girl, just shy of 2, was in the car for about 15 minutes. It was a 93-degree day, and 97 degrees in the un-air-conditioned car. The girl appeared warm to the paramedic—um, of course she'd be warm—so she was taken to the local hospital. She turned out to be fine. The wind, by the way, was gusting up to 40 miles per hour that day. To add insult to non-injury, Lt. Tierney is also quoted as reminding people that in a situation like this one, "Don't be afraid to call 911 for help." Yeah, and be ready to call a defense lawyer, too. The frantic mother called 911 for help and the police gave her a ticket for suspicion of child abuse by neglect.
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#1. To: Deckard (#0)
And giving them a ticket for calling for help is an excellent way to discourage people from calling for help in these dangerous situations. I guess if the woman was an illegal alien, she wouldn't have been ticketed.
And the woman noticed the wind and was extra careful. Oops. No she wasn't.
Or if she was a cop. She called 911 for help - then they ticketed her. Only in misterwhite Bizarro World is that acceptable. At least they didn't shoot her. If they had, you would have called it "justified". Of course they did. She put the child in danger. Oh, wait. You think she shouldn't have been ticketed because she had a good excuse for putting the child in danger? Really?
Of course they did. She put the child in danger. Oh for fuck's sake! You blithering imbecile! It could have happened to anyone you self-righteous POS. Oh, that's right - cops are gods to whitey. Gee, I guess a simple warning to "be more careful next time" wasn't an option. Then, the "police spokesman says "in a situation like this one, don't be afraid to call 911 for help." That's exactly what she did. And got a ticket. Yeah. I learned this lesson myself. I had a cup that I'd use to drink water. Sometimes I would leave it around with the water in it. Later, I'd see it and drink the water. Water doesn't really go bad sitting in a cup, so I never thought anything of it. Well, one day my wife was doing the laundry and got called away by the phone. I came into the room and found my cup sitting there on the washing machine, with the washer door open, etc. I picked it up without thinking and took a great big gulp of the bleach she had put in it to put in the washer. So, there I was, having just ingested a quarter cup of Clorox. What should I do? This was 1998, a bit before the Internet was in every home, and before it would have occurred to me to go look it up online. I did the logical thing anybody would do back then: I called information for NYC Poison Control, and was told to dial 911. So I dialed 911. All they were interested in, literally all they wanted to know, was who put the bleach in the cup, names, dates, times. They focused on collecting information for a criminal investigation - it was OBVIOUS. What I wanted to know was: I've just accidently swallowed a big gulp of bleach, what do I need to do to not DIE? They didn't answer any of my questions about the bleach or what to do - they INSISTED on the information. Finally I told them no, they were not being helpful, that this was an accident and that I would not give them that information, but that I needed them to tell me what to do. They wouldn't give me any information - it was all law enforcement all the time. So I "thanked" them and hung up. I thought it through and drank a big cup of milk, a lot of water, and ate several pieces of bread...and waited. Nothing happened and I ended up fine. So, I know from personal experience that if you swallow a quarter cup of Clorox that you...or at least I...will live if I follow it up with a milk and bread chaser. I also know that in an accidental poisoning situation, the 911 operators will be far more interested in gathering evidence for a prosecution than saving your life, so either ride it out or get yourself to the hospital. I don't trust the police. They are there for a paycheck, not to help me, and they are very very keen on their own authority and power. The police are the Redcoats.
I raised two kids and it never happened to me. On windy days, I was extra careful. "Gee, I guess a simple warning to "be more careful next time" wasn't an option." They took the child to the hospital. The child could have died. No, it wasn't an option.
As if it wasn't obvious, though it is, when people seeking help from police receive a punishment related to the matter for which they sought help, it sends a message to the rest of the community that, should they find themselves in a similar situation, calling the police for help will result in a fine or other punishment. This will discourage others who need help from calling police for that help they need. And if it's a potentially life & death situation, the deterring effect of the fear of punishment from the police, or even a delay in calling them as those involve seek alternate solutions without the police, could result in more serious harm or death. And we're not talking about a situation where someone is in danger due to malice. We're talking about an accidental situation in which someone's life is in danger, whether or not there was some degree of carelessness involved. So, by giving this woman a ticket, the message from the police to the community is that calling them for help in a life or death situation should be a lower priority. Other solutions should be sought first. That message puts the community in more danger and could result in the death of others having nothing to do with this incident with this woman and child, and because of that, it is a very bad message. If any punishment is deemed appropriate, the expense of repairing the passenger window should certainly suffice. Now that this has been explained, you are free to continue to make a complete fool of yourself by cheering for any and all police activity. Perhaps you are being compensated for doing so -- that would be the only reason I could fathom for such posted boot-licking -- which would be unfortunate as it would be money paid for increasing the danger to society.
Nah. They're historians, there to document what happened. By the way, if someone is breaking into your home, DO NOT call a doctor for help. You'll be equally disappointed. I wouldn't trust them. -------------------------------- --------------- "See Something. Say Something." Another load of bullshit. A former friend of my son has been getting crazier and crazier over the years. He posted some strange and threatening stuff on the Internet to my son and, upon further digging, to other people -- including the local police! Things like, "They have to die", "Will no one stop me?" Why do I have these thoughts?" Plus a photo of him with an AR-15. No, I'm not making this up. I saw the posts. So, I told my son that this is exactly what the police find AFTER someone shoots up a crowd and everyone says, "Why didn't someone do something?" So he went to police and they said they were aware of this guy but can't do anything about it. But hey. If my son is gunned down they'll know where to look and will make a quick arrest, possibly leading to some promotions. So there's that.
Nah. They're historians, there to document what happened. Well, I don't want to pay them salaries out of my taxes to be historians. I am willing to pay for police to HELP ME if I call them. If they are not going to do that, then I'd just as soon cut off their money and send them home. If someone is breaking into my home, I will persuade him to go away. If he won't be persuaded, then I will kill him when he gets inside if I find him threatening (if he's just a drunken fool I'll drive him out). If he's already inside, if I feel threatened by him I will kill him. Then I will call the police and they will come, do their "historical recording" thing, and probably made bad decisions, accuse me of things and ruin my life. I used to trust the police. I have lost that trust. They are the Redcoats.
OR ... it will cause others to be more careful so they don't put themselves in a similar situation. No? "We're talking about an accidental situation in which someone's life is in danger, whether or not there was some degree of carelessness involved." No. We're talking about a situation that could have easily been avoided had the woman not been so careless and unthinking. Had she simply locked herself out of her car, no ticket would have been issued. But, in this case, the police thought it so dangerous that they broke the car window to get the child out, and took the child to the hospital. A ticket serves to illustrate the seriousness of the situation, rather than the issuance of a mere warning.
They helped this woman. Anyways, what percent of the time are the police able to help prevent something from happening? 1%? 2%? Most of the time they show up after something bad has already happened. Hence the term "historians".
No, issuing a ticket will not encourage her to be more careful. Unless, of course, she values the cost of the ticket more than she values the life of her son. In that case, yes, the ticket will serve as some degree of deterrent in the future, though there is obviously a much bigger problem at hand. Otherwise, the scary experience will serve as deterrent enough. And again, she already has the expense of repairing the car window. You failed to contradict my comment which you quoted. That they felt compelled to call police illustrates all too well their awareness of the serious of the situation. At least to people who are not complete morons. By issuing the ticket, the police are illustrating how calling them for help in a life & death situation should only be done if one is willing to receive a citation. This places the rest of the community in MORE danger, not less, and the whole purpose of punishment is to improve safety, not lesson it. By issuing the ticket, police are placing the community in more danger. Ergo, it should not have been issued.
And misterwhite is a Tory. Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt I am concerned for the security of our great nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within." -- General Douglas MacArthur
Drama queen. Firefighters measured the temperature inside the vehicle at 97 degrees a few minutes after the window was broken and the child was removed. The outside temperature was 93 degrees, according to a reading from a police cruiser. Here's how it should have been handled. Henrico mother thanks police after toddler was locked in car A toddler’s smile and mother’s gratitude rewarded the efforts of a Henrico County police officer after she calmly stayed on scene Wednesday while the child was temporarily locked in the car with the keys. Amanda Robinson, the boy’s mother, said she called the Henrico Police Department in a panic after the car was accidentally locked with the 18-month-old still inside. The outside temperature sat at 85 degrees, heating the vehicle’s interior. “I did not know at the time we called how quickly we would be able to get him out or how quickly he might show signs of distress,” Robinson said. She said she originally just wanted the police there in case something happened while she sought assistance, but the calm, friendly demeanor of the officer, E. Owens, helped her remember about a spare key. “She did not make us feel any worse for making a mistake,” Robinson said. “She was just very attentive and showed that she genuinely cared about him.” Owens monitored the car while Robinson left to retrieve her spare key, amusing the toddler with a stuffed animal. “Most of our officers keep stuffed animals in their cars for situations just like this,” Henrico police said in a Facebook post. The stuffed animals are donated to the department. Owens watched the toddler in case he showed signs of distress. If he had, she was prepared to smash the windows and remove him. You weren't there. You can't say how it "should have" been handled.
I would say the police breaking the window was a perfectly reasonable life-saving measure. Whether taking the child to the hospital was reasonably prudent or not is a judgment call. The article is not clear on whether it was at the mother's urging or not. The police should have followed up with a simple expression of gratitude that they were happy to help, perhaps recommend a place to repair the window, perhaps requested information to complete their internal reporting, wished the family well and gone their way. As it is, regardless of whether they end up paying the ticket or it's dismissed in court, the decision to issue it has doubtless replaced the gratitude the family may have had for the police help with hostility, and is causing them to think of ways they could have opened the car without police help, which would obviously entail them breaking the window themselves, which is perhaps something best not done without experience and less obvious precautions.
I said it will cause others to be more careful. She's hopeless. "That they felt compelled to call police illustrates all too well their awareness of the serious of the situation." She was locked out of her. People call the police for that all the time. That's not a serious situation. "By issuing the ticket, police are placing the community in more danger." You never heard of "making an example" of someone?
It's not stopping you from saying how it should have been handled.
Hopeless, you say?? I'd say that description suits you far better. What??? So please clarify for me whether it was or was not a serious situation. You are going back and forth on this. Are you on drugs today? I sure have. And they did make an example of her. That's why whole point. The example being, if you call police for help to save a life, you may be punished for doing so. So the rest of the community will learn from this and in cases where someone's life is in danger, calling the police to help an innocent person's life should be a lower priority.
It's possible that department policy required them to issue a ticket, given that they broke the window. If the child wasn't in danger, why break the window? Conversely, if she placed the child in danger why didn't they issue a ticket? Also, with no ticket issued she could sue the police department to replace the window, claiming it wasn't necessary and that the police overreacted. And that it traumatized the child. $100,000 should cover it. Plus legal expenses.
I was saying that people call the police all the time to open their locked car. Feeling compelled to call the police to help them does not necessarily mean there is a serious situation. "I sure have. And they did make an example of her." And we'll never know how many lives were saved because of that. Giving her a pass sends the wrong message, especially when locking children and animals in hot cars is front page news nowadays.
I said I agree with how it WAS handled.
In which case.... drum roll please..... the police policy would be what's screwed up, and we could give the cops a pass for doing the asinine thing they did. That better? But no, police have discretion on when & if to issue tickets. They exercise this discretion every time for speeding, on whether to issue a ticket, a warning, or nothing at all. They are also the ones that have to testify in court, after all. Nice try though. I'm sure the police union will admire your effort. No one on this thread said the child was in no danger, and they should not have issued the ticket for reasons already explained numerous times. In which case she'd lose and pay the defense cost, in addition to demonstrating how unfit a mother she is to have opted for he child to be harmed or die rather than buy a new car window. And which would also contradict her whole purpose of calling the police for help. I am getting tired of trying to teach you moral ethics, which I'm obviously failing to do. I really shouldn't be wasting my time like that. Any more pro-cop, draconian, no-punishment-is-too-harsh observations you'd like to promote, whether sincerely or for pay?
I am reminded of this quote: "For by the standard you judge you will be judged, and the measure you use will be the measure by which you are measured." It was Jesus of Nazareth who said that. I am also reminded of this quote, from the Apostle James: "For judgment without mercy will be to the one not having shown mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment." Given those standards, I prefer mercy and reasonableness in judgment. "For the letter of the law kills, but the spirit gives eternal life." - St. Paul The merciless man has established the standard by which he will be judged, and that's really a terrible thing for him, for no man is without sin, and he who judges petty things harshly has essentially dug a death pit at his own feet. The best thing such a man can do is to stop it. But if he won't, then he should hope that God and Jesus are myths.
Anyways, what percent of the time are the police able to help prevent something from happening? 1%? 2%? And harmed her also. Needlessly and mean-spiritedly. 1% is probably right. Which is a good argument for doing away with most of the police forces and encouraging personal firearms training.
Great quotes and an excellent point. My point on this thread, however, is just in citing the very pragmatic harmful effect, to the community, of issuing the ticket, how the effect of issuing the ticket completely contradicts the supposed idea that the police exist for the benefit of society. Supposedly, ticketing is supposed to serve the purpose of making the community safer through encouraging better behavior. In this case, however, it will serve to encourage worse behavior by dissuading people from turning to the police for help in potentially life & death situations. That could result in people dying who otherwise might have been saved if police were called sooner. And some morons just don't get it.
The Supreme Court has ruled to the effect that the duty of the police is law enforcement, not public protection. I never signed up to pay an army a lot of money to "enforce" law upon me. I am not willing to pay for that, so if that's what they officially are, then I want to see most police forces axed. I'll trust to my own defenses, the basic goodness of mankind, and the protection of God.
The Supreme Court has ruled to the effect that the duty of the police is law enforcement, not public protection. I remember seeing the motto painted on the back of every police car where I was living: I guess the USSC lived somewhere else.
...WHOM?
I would agree. That said, all the officers I know SP, SO, and local PD, all carry "slim jims" in their cruisers, and do so for such situations. I guess this Department does not. Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt I am concerned for the security of our great nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within." -- General Douglas MacArthur
I would agree. That said, all the officers I know SP, SO, and local PD, all carry "slim jims" in their cruisers, and do so for such situations. I guess this Department does not. Aren't Slim Jim's a tool for older cars? Certainly newer car designs would be made to resist being opened by a well known tool that any thief could acquire.
I've read countless articles on this forum where people broke the law but the decision was made not to charge them. The response from the posters here? SEE! THEY WERE INNOCENT! THEY DIDN"T DO IT! JACKBOOTED THUGS VIOLATED THEIR RIGHTS AND NEVER EVEN CHARGED THEM! SUE THE BASTARDS! POLICE STATE! So as far as I'm concerned, the cops should write a ticket every f**king time and haul their asses to jail. "in addition to demonstrating how unfit a mother she is to have opted for he child to be harmed or die rather than buy a new car window" I'm saying that without a citation there's no child endangerment. Meaning she's not unfit. Meaning they broke the window for no reason. Meaning they should replace it and pay her $100,000 for traumatizing the child. "And which would also contradict her whole purpose of calling the police for help." She'll tell the court she only called the cops to let her back in her car. They went apeshit and broke her window, traumatizing the child. Right? Won't that be the story in court? Writing a citation eliminates all that.
With newer car designs, Slim Jims are used to break the window.
Judgement should be rendered by a judge in a court of law. For all we know, this may not be the first time this has happened. Perhaps the court gave her a warning or probation in the past. Maybe now it's time to take it to the next level. If the cop gives her a pass at the scene, we'd never know that. Until next time when the child dies.
I have no idea. The next time I see any of them, I will ask. Although, even with the advent of all of the electronic stuff, there is still a fair amount of mechanical pieces to door locks Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt I am concerned for the security of our great nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within." -- General Douglas MacArthur
"We make decisions in the moment with all the information we have available,'' she said. "This can be a super dangerous situation. People die in these circumstances."
#2. To: Deckard (#0)
The wind, by the way, was gusting up to 40 miles per hour that day.
#3. To: Pinguinite (#1)
I guess if the woman was an illegal alien, she wouldn't have been ticketed.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#4. To: misterwhite (#2)
(Edited)
And the woman noticed the wind and was extra careful. Oops. No she wasn't.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#5. To: Deckard (#4)
"She called 911 for help - then they ticketed her."
#6. To: misterwhite (#5)
(Edited)
"She called 911 for help - then they ticketed her."
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#7. To: Deckard (#0)
#8. To: Deckard (#6)
It could have happened to anyone you self-righteous POS.
#9. To: misterwhite (#5)
Oh, wait. You think she shouldn't have been ticketed because she had a good excuse for putting the child in danger? Really?
#10. To: Vicomte13 (#7)
(Edited)
The police are the Redcoats.
#11. To: misterwhite (#10)
#12. To: Pinguinite (#9)
This will discourage others who need help from calling police for that help they need.
#13. To: Vicomte13 (#11)
"I am willing to pay for police to HELP ME if I call them."
#14. To: misterwhite (#12)
OR ... it will cause others to be more careful so they don't put themselves in a similar situation. No?
"We're talking about an accidental situation in which someone's life is in danger, whether or not there was some degree of carelessness involved."
No. We're talking about a situation that could have easily been avoided had the woman not been so careless and unthinking.
A ticket serves to illustrate the seriousness of the situation, rather than the issuance of a mere warning.
#15. To: Vicomte13 (#7)
" The police are the Redcoats. "
#16. To: misterwhite (#8)
They took the child to the hospital. The child could have died.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#17. To: Pinguinite, misterwhite, Stoner (#14)
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#18. To: Deckard (#17)
Here's how it should have been handled.
#19. To: Deckard (#17)
#20. To: Pinguinite (#14)
No, issuing a ticket will not encourage her to be more careful.
#21. To: misterwhite (#18)
You weren't there. You can't say how it "should have" been handled.
#22. To: misterwhite (#20)
I said it will cause others to be more careful. She's hopeless.
She was locked out of her. People call the police for that all the time. That's not a serious situation.
You never heard of "making an example" of someone?
#23. To: Pinguinite (#19)
The police should have followed up with a simple expression of gratitude that they were happy to help, perhaps recommend a place to repair the window, perhaps requested information to complete their internal reporting, wished the family well and gone their way.
#24. To: Pinguinite (#22)
What??? So please clarify for me whether it was or was not a serious situation.
#25. To: Pinguinite (#21)
It's not stopping you from saying how it should have been handled.
#26. To: misterwhite (#23)
It's possible that department policy required them to issue a ticket, given that they broke the window.
If the child wasn't in danger, why break the window? Conversely, if she placed the child in danger why didn't they issue a ticket?
Also, with no ticket issued she could sue the police department to replace the window, claiming it wasn't necessary and that the police overreacted. And that it traumatized the child. $100,000 should cover it. Plus legal expenses.
#27. To: Pinguinite (#26)
#28. To: misterwhite (#13)
They helped this woman.
#29. To: Vicomte13 (#27)
#30. To: Pinguinite (#29)
the supposed idea that the police exist for the benefit of society.
#31. To: Vicomte13 (#30)
"To Serve and Protect"
#32. To: Pinguinite (#31)
"To Serve and Protect"
#33. To: Pinguinite (#19)
" I would say the police breaking the window was a perfectly reasonable life-saving measure. "
#34. To: Stoner (#33)
#35. To: Pinguinite (#26)
But no, police have discretion on when & if to issue tickets.
#36. To: Pinguinite (#34)
Aren't Slim Jim's a tool for older cars? Certainly newer car designs would be made to resist being opened by a well known tool that any thief could acquire.
#37. To: Vicomte13 (#27)
"For by the standard you judge you will be judged, and the measure you use will be the measure by which you are measured."
#38. To: Pinguinite (#34)
" Aren't Slim Jim's a tool for older cars? Certainly newer car designs would be made to resist being opened by a well known tool that any thief could acquire. "
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