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Title: After Getting Busted for Bombing Syria Based On a Lie, Trump Doubles Down … Threatens to Bomb Syria Even Harder Based On Same BS
Source:
Zero Hedge
URL Source: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017- ... n-%E2%80%A6-threatens-bomb-syr
Published: Jun 27, 2017
Author: George Washington
Post Date: 2017-06-27 13:53:54 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 5893
Comments: 31
A report yesterday by the Pulitzer-prize winning reporter who broke some of the biggest stories of the Vietnam and Iraq wars showed that Trump bombed Syria on April 4th based upon false pretenses. Specifically, Trump said the Syrian government carried out a chemical weapons attack on civilians, but U.S. military and intelligence officials say that they told Trump there was no evidence for that claim … and they say that what really happened is that Syria bombed Islamic terrorists, and that accidentally released chemicals being stored by the terrorists. So how does Trump respond to the report? He doubles down on the bull … White House spokesman Sean Spicer said tonight: The United States has identified potential preparations for another chemical weapons attack by the Assad regime that would likely result in the mass murder of civilians, including innocent children. The activities are similar to preparations the regime made before its April 4, 2017 chemical weapons attack. [Oh ... you mean the Syria government is planning on bombing Islamic terrorists again?] *** If … Mr. Assad conducts another mass murder attack using chemical weapons, he and his military will pay a heavy price. After Spicer’s statement, Neocon warmonger – and U.S. representative to the U.N. – Nikki Haley tweeted: Any further attacks done to the people of Syria will be blamed on Assad, but also on Russia & Iran who support him killing his own people. Notice that Haley does not say: Any further attacks CARRIED OUT BY THE SYRIAN GOVERNMENT and done to the people of Syria will be blamed on Assad, but also on Russia & Iran who support him killing his own people. Anything bad happens - whether it's carried out by Assad, or ISIS, or Al Qaeda, or outside forces trying to destabilize Syria - it will be blamed on Assad as a justification for a lot more bombing. Postscript: This little game has been going on for 68 years. Specifically, the U.S. government has been trying to replace the Syrian government with folks who will be subservient to America since 1949 … 3 years after Syria became an independent nation. The CIA succeeded in carrying out a coup in Syria 1949. In 1957, the American president and British prime minister agreed to launch regime change again in Syria using a false flag. (False flags are not only historically documented, but presidents, prime ministers, congressmen, generals, spooks, soldiers and police have ADMITTED to planning and carrying out false flag attacks). In 1983, 1986, 1991, 2001, 2009 and 2012, American officials again schemed about regime change in Syria.
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#1. To: Deckard (#0)
Syria is a Russian ally, the place where the Russians base their fleet. Syria is also a bitter enemy of Israel, refusing to formally make peace. Syria is a supporter of terrorists who attack Syria and elsewhere. Syria is a dictatorship whose government slaughters its people. So, given all of those things, we have ample reason to destroy the Syrian regime. For us NOT to do so requires a series of moves by the Russians and the Syrians. We will let the Russians keep their base there intact, if they police the Syrian government so that it will do the following: (1) Formally make peace with and recognize Israel, including accepting long- term Israeli policing of the Golan Heights. Syria attacked Israel from the Golan Heights multiple times. They cannot be permitted to simply reassume possession without an Israeli presence. So, governorship can pass, but the Israelis must be permitted to stay, unmolested, as long as it takes to build trust. (2) Expel the terrorists, stop supporting them, kill them. (3) Stop slaughtering their own people, and get rid of all chemical or biological weapons. Do that, and the Syrian regime can be permitted to live, and the Russians have peaceful and unmolested use of their naval base. Everybody is happy and we go home. Anything less, and it looks as though Syrian regime supporters are just going to have to keep on dying, until they accept the terms or are overthrown. We're not going anywhere until we get what we want.
True. Israel is hardly interested in peace themselves so both are guilty. However true this is, it's also true of most every government int he region, including Israel and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is also a dictatorship, and claims that Syria kills it's own people are suspect due to the political forces in play. No we don't, unless we also commit to destroying the Saudi Arabia regime which of course will never happen as long as the SA monarchy remains an "ally" of the USA. Israel will not agree to peace with the current Syrian government no matter what. The Golan Heights is certainly a sticky point Syria will likely never agree to. However reasonable this may seem, Syria will never accept such proposal as it would be very humiliating to them. Syria already fully agreed to get rid of their chem weapons, and Russia supports this as well. By some accounts, this was already done under Obama/Kerry due to a great diplomatic move by Putin vs Kerry which took Kerry off guard. Actually, with Russian support, the pro-Assad forces continue to make gains defeating rebels in Syria. If the momentum continues, ISIS will be defeated in Syria and the only rebels remaining will be US supported rebels, including the Kurds that Turkey hates. At that point, pressure will rise for Assad to attack those rebels, and the risk of a US Russian confrontation will be greater than it is now.
There's a criminal determination to convert Syria into a jihadist caliphate. That criminality should be prosecuted.
This is an important article on Syria.
Then the pressure will rise and rise, and the Russians will keep backing away from the confrontation, and the US-backed rebels will continue to be a perpetual thorn in their side, because we are not going anywhere until we get what we want, and we are much more powerful than Russia, so they cannot push us out, and do not dare get into a direct military conflict with America, because if they do, they will lose. So, the war will continue.
Perhaps I need to spell it out more clearly. Right and wrong are not the issue. There are competing interests here, and there is no solution that does not satisfy US interests. The Russian interest in their naval base is understandable and acceptable - they have no other naval base in the Mediterranean, so they have to dig in and fight nearly to the death if they have to, to prevent being closed out of a whole region. So obviously, no matter what the outcome, the Russians get to keep their base. That's what Russia gets. Further Russian aspirations to simply win in Syria and get their way and the strategic result they want will never come true, because the Americans have the resources and the will to stay and fight FOREVER. America is a much wealthier and more powerful country than Russia, and we will not be driven from the region by the Russians. We can accept that the Russians need their base, but they don't need the Assad government to have that base. Assad's government has relentlessly supported terrorism against the West for decades, and is a permanent enemy of Israel, with no hope for peace. Therefore, Assad must die. There is nowhere else to go for him. We will simply stay in Syria forever, making any settlement impossible, until Assad is out of power. We can accept him getting asylum somewhere, alive. But if he MUST stay, then he must die. And that is that. The thought that somehow the Russians and the Syrians are going to get what they want, but the Americans are not, is ridiculous. The most powerful military and economy in the world is not going to be defeated, and it isn't going to be disregarded. And the Syrians will just keep suffering and dying until they accept that and come to a solution that the Americans will accept. Because we are not going anywhere until we get what we want, and our strategic position in the world is becoming more powerful due to our rising petroleoum and natural gas dominance, which simultaneously weakens the economies of Iran, Iraq and Russia. There is no victory against the United States. There is nothing ahead for the Syrians but more and more and more death if they do not propose a solution that satisfies American desires. We CAN accept the Russians keeping their base. We get it. Past that, an American retreat from the region? Not happening. Ever. Nor will Israel ever be destroyed. We can kill Arabs until kingdom come to make the point. And if we have to, we will. Looks like we will have to. Oh well. For my part, I'd prefer to see a settlement that is just all around. Apparently that's a pipe dream. So we'll just stay and fight. It costs us little. It costs the Syrians their entire future. Too bad for them. Their stubbornness will never, ever result in their success, only their further death and degradation. Assad will go, sooner or later. And then we'll win. For that matter, Castro will also die, eventually, and then we'll win there too. We're not going anywhere, and we're not changing our minds.
Putin is no fool. He's very clever and sly, and fortunately for US, also reasonable and interested in peace. And while Russia doesn't have nearly the military budget the US does, they do have state of the art anti aircraft weaponry, and ultimately, nuclear weapons. And if they use them, yes, they will still lose, but they will not lose alone. The advantage Putin has is he's aware of that, which the US leadership and populous seems to arrogantly not get, and dangerously so. I expect the US will have to eventually concede that Syria will not go the way it, Israel, and Saudi Arabia wants. Assad, or at least his family, will remain in charge of Syria. The ball will then be in the anti-Assad regional powers in the area to try something else, and life &, yes, war will continue.
Here is a recent sitrep with a lot of video: And a conversation that is possibly real: Edit: don't know why autolink isn't working
If we lose, it will go badly for our people. So we don't want to lose. What we should be working towards is a circumstance in which we don't have to fight.
True, Putin is no fool. Neither is Trump. They need to meet and come to an agreement on Syria. If the agreement is "Assad stays", the non-negotiable part is "and he stops supporting terrorism against Israel and the West, and stops letting Syria be used as a sanctuary for terrorists". The Russian base is the non-negotiable thing for Russia. The end of Syria as a sanctuary for terrorism is the real non-negotiable thing for the US. It took Nixon to go to China. It's going to take Trump and Putin to work out Syria, because the regular American diplomatic, military and intelligence services are too infected with Russophobia to be able to honestly make a deal. Trump and Putin can make a deal, and if it is mutually beneficial, both have a strong incentive to keep it. The incentive for the Americans is that Syria stops being a hub and sanctuary for terrorism, and the security situation in the Middle East vastly improves. The incentive for the Russians is the security of their base, and the security (and legitimacy) of Assad as long as he doesn't dabble in terror. Everybody wins except the terrorists in that circumstance. As for the US-backed insurgents - they have to be allowed to peacefully emigrate. If they're Christians, to the US, if they're Muslims, preferably to some other Muslim country, perhaps Lebanon. If the answer is that the guy we backed them against gets to win, we can't let the people who supported us get slaughtered.
Trump is smart, but he's also inexperienced. Putin has plenty of experience and smarts. I bet if & when they meet in person, Trump is going to be impressed as hell with Putin, moreso than he was with President Xi if China. And I predict they will get along quite well and the US tone will change in Syria. Like hell it will improve. What about Saudi Arabia being a sanctuary for terrorism? Do you think Assad actually has that much control over his country? Radical Islam won't go away, with or without Assad.
It is a very risky assumption. Russians tend to yield, yield and yield. Until the INVISIBLE line is crossed. You never know when you cross it, and perhaps they don't know themselves. It is like handling an explosive substance. Chancellor Bismark said: "the Russians -- slow to the saddle....ride like the wind". "By attacking Russia we would only further consolidate it"
Syrian Christians must die too?
Christian US-backed insurgents?! What the bloody Hell are you taking about?
You mean like Iraq and Libya?
Of course Saudi Arabia is a problem, but the issue of Syria and the issue of Saudi Arabia are not linked. Saudi Arabia is being brought to heel by the resurgence of American energy production, which is driving the price of their oil down below the levels that they can afford to sustain their current structures. Syria doesn't have oil, and is a Russian client. If Assad needs help patrolling Syria to drive out the terrorists, I am sure that the Russians, the Americans and the Israelis will all be happy to assist.
I have no desire to attack Russia. I want peace with Russia. Good relations with Russia regarding Syria does not mean that the US position collapses and Russia gets its way. No. Syria is, and has been, a hub of terror. That must stop. If it can be stopped and the Assad regime left in place, in the end America will tolerate it. But there will be no game playing. Assad doesn't get to be secured in order to continue business as usual, Syria will cease being a safe haven for terrorists. That's the deal. The terrorist sanctuary will be gone. Attacks on Israel will cease. And Assad can retain his position. It's a trade off. There does not seem to be any willing to make that tradeoff. Therefore, Assad will have to die. The US is not going to back down or go away until our central issue is addressed satisfactorily.
It is unfortunate that Christian Syrians ARE dying already, in droves, because of the breakdown of all order. An Assad who, with Russian (and American) backing is able to restore order and KEEP the order restored, and stop supporting terror - that will end up being acceptable. What won't be accepted is an outcome that leaves Syria a terror safe haven. Iraq and Libya? Certainly problem areas. The war is not over, though.
What I mean is that Syrian Christians can emigrate to the US. US-backed Syrian insurgents need to have somewhere to go if a deal is struck that lets Assad live on in charge. We can't hand over the people we backed to be slaughtered. We've done that before, in other places, and it was disgraceful. We have to do better this time.
who made you king of the world, all it takes is for the US to walk away and stop supporting dissidents.
That is not happening. Russia can also walk away. So can Assad, into exile. So could the Muslims. Every actor COULD just walk away. None are going to, because they all perceive viital interests at stake. Unfortunately, the vital interests of one are mortal threats to another. For ISIS to walk away would be to abandon their religion. They won't, so they have to be killed. There is a constellation of interests that can be worked out. Russia's, Assad's and ours can be coordinated. But ISIS has to die no matter what.
yes you want to destroy the demon you created because it is now inconvenient, but you forget, Syria is Assad's home, he has a right to be there, Russia was invited but you are uninvited. What ever Assad's crimes, it is for the Syrian people to deal with him and eventually they will
So you will get war with Russia. For Russia it is a matter of survival - if West supported rebels or moderate terrorists take over Middle East, Russia will be their next target. It will be more prudent to start fight earlier in Syria than in southern Russia.
Very well then, there will be war with Russia. And if our missile defense is as good as it appears to be, the Russians will lose the war and be exterminated as a race - the Third Rome will be vaporized - while America, scarred but alive - will limp forward. All because no compromise could be reached in Syria. If the Russians want to trade their existence, and all of their children, for Syria, then that is how it will have to be. We will trade a lot of our children, but thanks to modern technology not all of them. We are not going to back down and let the Russians win in Syria. If the price of not doing that is nuclear holocaust, then we will have nuclear holocaust. The land that was formerly Russia will be populated by the Chinese and the Central Asians. America will fill up with Latinos - but that is going to happen anyway. So be it.
What Assad chooses to do in Syria reaches OUT of Syria and touches us and our allies. Therefore, what the Syrians do in Syria IS our business, and will REMAIN our business, until they stop doing outside of Syria what is unacceptable to us. We have been willing to let Kim Jong Un torture and starve millions of his people, just as we let Stalin do it, and we've let the Castros do it. When dictators murder people within their own national borders, we avert our eyes. But when their forces and the forces they protect cross over national borders and attack us and our allies, what the Syrians do in their country becomes our business. It would be great for all of the dictators and petty despots of the world if there were no consequences to doing their will, but we also have a will, and vast resources to back it, so there ARE consequences, and there will always BE consequences.
Could you elaborate? Well, Russian population is more dispersed and less reliant on technology.
Nah. If the Russians really want a war, they'll get one. They don't. Neither do we. The interests of both in Syria have to be addressed, and a compromise position has to be reached. The notion that Russia will go to the wall, go to nuclear war with the United States if it does not get its way in Syria is absurd, but if it is really so, then we may as well speak in truths: the United States is not going to back down and give up its own interests because the Russians really, really, really mean it. We really, really, really mean it too, and we're not going to chuck aside our interests out of fear of the Russians. We are not afraid of the Russians. We respect them, and we don't want to end up in a war with them. But brinksmanship with the United States simply does not work. We are the most powerful economy and military in the world, and we know it. We're not intimidated by anybody, and we're not going to be. We DO want peace and reasonable solutions. We understand that the Russians need their naval base, and need to have a hand in what happens in Syria, just as we understand that Ukraine, ultimately, is as vital to Russian interests as Canada is to ours. We get it. On this thread, many Americans do not seem to get that we also have vital interests at stake in Syria and the Middle East. There is this weird fantasy that if somehow the United States just dematerialized over there and left, that everything would be tickety-boo. It's ludicrous. In any case, it's a complete fantasy. We are not going anywhere. We have to deal with the Russians, because they can't give up their base, and the Russians and Syrians have to deal with us, because we're not giving up our interests in the Middle East either. Russia seems hellbent on preserving Assad. If that is the case, then the Russians need to give Assad the sort of support that will allow him to rule Syria WITHOUT having to appease the terrorists, without allowing terrorists to set up camp in Syria to attack our allies. We are not going to tolerate that any longer. The outcome will not be that the Russians keep their base, Assad stays, and we return to the game whereby the Syrians practice denial but let the terrorists flourish and train and arm in security in Syria. We are not going to return to the status quo ante. If we have to fight fifteen more years of war and leave the country in ruins, we will do so. That does not have to be the answer, but it WILL BE the answer if there is no agreement by Assad (with Russian backing and pressure) to actually close off Syria as a haven for terror against the West. The arguments that it isn't are stupid. Syria is, and has been, a hub of terrorism for a long time. Now the terror has turned inward and is slaughtering Syrians. And that circumstance is preferable to the circumstance where terrorists are in a safe haven there planning to terrorize us and our allies. Any argument that suggests that the US will have to give in to Russia are likewise ignorant. No, we don't. And we're not going to. What we CAN do is that we can make peace on the terms of a compromise. That's where our energies need to be directed. It's why Trump and Putin getting together and talking geostrategy is important. Muslim places will always be crappy places, but they need not be Russia/US flashpoints.
Well, if you are right, only a few weeks are left. The so called rebels are losing on all fronts. July will be the last window of opportunity for a massive military action in Syria. And look at the complications like Turkish troops in Qatar, Qatar rapprochement with Iran, Kurdish independence ambitions, Saudis bogged in Yemen, etc, etc ... Russians, even if they wanted, will not be able to change course so fast in this game of chicken, especially that victory is within their reach.
Can you back up your claims that Syria is a "hub of terrorism"?
Moderate terrorism or immoderate one?
#2. To: Vicomte13 (#1)
Syria is a Russian ally, the place where the Russians base their fleet.
Syria is also a bitter enemy of Israel, refusing to formally make peace.
Syria is a supporter of terrorists who attack Syria and elsewhere.
Syria is a dictatorship whose government slaughters its people.
So, given all of those things, we have ample reason to destroy the Syrian regime.
(1) Formally make peace with and recognize Israel, including accepting long- term Israeli policing of the Golan Heights.
Syria attacked Israel from the Golan Heights multiple times. They cannot be permitted to simply reassume possession without an Israeli presence. So, governorship can pass, but the Israelis must be permitted to stay, unmolested, as long as it takes to build trust.
(2) Expel the terrorists, stop supporting them, kill them.
(3) Stop slaughtering their own people, and get rid of all chemical or biological weapons.
Anything less, and it looks as though Syrian regime supporters are just going to have to keep on dying, until they accept the terms or are overthrown. We're not going anywhere until we get what we want.
#3. To: Deckard (#0)
#4. To: Vicomte13 (#1)
#5. To: Pinguinite (#2)
(Edited)
Actually, with Russian support, the pro-Assad forces continue to make gains defeating rebels in Syria. If the momentum continues, ISIS will be defeated in Syria and the only rebels remaining will be US supported rebels, including the Kurds that Turkey hates. At that point, pressure will rise for Assad to attack those rebels, and the risk of a US Russian confrontation will be greater than it is now.
#6. To: Anthem (#4)
#7. To: Vicomte13 (#5)
because we are not going anywhere until we get what we want, and we are much more powerful than Russia, so they cannot push us out, and do not dare get into a direct military conflict with America, because if they do, they will lose.
So, the war will continue.
#8. To: Pinguinite (#2)
(Edited)
the risk of a US Russian confrontation will be greater than it is now.
And, hopefully, we'll lose big time. The U. S. has become so weak and degenerate it doesn't deserve to exist.
#9. To: Pinguinite, Vicompte13, Tooconservative (#7)
(Edited)
#10. To: rlk (#8)
And, hopefully, we'll lose big time. The U. S. has become so weak and degenerate it doesn't deserve to exist.
#11. To: Pinguinite (#7)
(Edited)
#12. To: Vicomte13 (#11)
True, Putin is no fool. Neither is Trump.
The incentive for the Americans is that Syria stops being a hub and sanctuary for terrorism, and the security situation in the Middle East vastly improves.
#13. To: Vicomte13 (#5)
Then the pressure will rise and rise, and the Russians will keep backing away from the confrontation
#14. To: Vicomte13 (#6)
We will simply stay in Syria forever, making any settlement impossible, until Assad is out of power. We can accept him getting asylum somewhere, alive. But if he MUST stay, then he must die.
#15. To: Vicomte13 (#11)
As for the US-backed insurgents - they have to be allowed to peacefully emigrate. If they're Christians, to the US
#16. To: Vicomte13 (#11)
The incentive for the Americans is that Syria stops being a hub and sanctuary for terrorism, and the security situation in the Middle East vastly improves.
#17. To: Pinguinite (#12)
#18. To: A Pole (#13)
#19. To: A Pole (#14)
#20. To: A Pole (#15)
Christian US-backed insurgents?! What the bloody Hell are you taking about?
#21. To: Vicomte13 (#1)
We're not going anywhere until we get what we want.
#22. To: paraclete (#21)
Ask it takes...
#23. To: Vicomte13 (#22)
There is a constellation of interests that can be worked out. Russia's, Assad's and ours can be coordinated. But ISIS has to die no matter what.
#24. To: Vicomte13 (#18)
I have no desire to attack Russia. I want peace with Russia. Good relations with Russia regarding Syria does not mean that the US position collapses and Russia gets its way.
#25. To: A Pole (#24)
So you will get war with Russia.
#26. To: paraclete (#23)
yes you want to destroy the demon you created because it is now inconvenient, but you forget, Syria is Assad's home, he has a right to be there, Russia was invited but you are uninvited. What ever Assad's crimes, it is for the Syrian people to deal with him and eventually they will
#27. To: Vicomte13 (#25)
(Edited)
And if our missile defense is as good as it appears to be, the Russians will lose the war
and be exterminated as a race - the Third Rome will be vaporized - while America, scarred but alive - will limp forward
#28. To: A Pole (#27)
Could you elaborate?
#29. To: Vicomte13 (#28)
(Edited)
Any argument that suggests that the US will have to give in to Russia are likewise ignorant. No, we don't. And we're not going to.
#30. To: Vicomte13 (#28)
#31. To: Vicomte13 (#28)
Syria is, and has been, a hub of terrorism
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