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Title: Exclusive: Murdered DNC staffer's family, friends set record straight
Source: crimewatchdaily.com
URL Source: https://crimewatchdaily.com/2016/09 ... -set-record-straight/#comments
Published: May 21, 2017
Author: Michelle Sigona
Post Date: 2017-05-21 08:58:06 by sneakypete
Ping List: *Crime and Corruption*     Subscribe to *Crime and Corruption*
Keywords: Clinton, Murder, Corruption
Views: 23285
Comments: 62

Seth Rich, a 27-year-old staffer for the Democratic National Committee, was shot in the back in the early morning hours of July 10, 2016.

"It appears he was targeted," said D.C. Police Captain Anthony Haythe. "He was shot multiple times."

Seth was shot at 4:19 in the morning, just two minutes after hanging up with his girlfriend, Kelsey Mulka.

"We were on the phone just wrapping up our conversation, he had kind of told me that he was getting close to his house," said Mulka.

Seth's grieving girlfriend is speaking out for the very first time since his murder. They had dated for two years.

"There really aren't -- no words -- that can accurately express how devastating and horrific it is to bury someone that you love," said Mulka.

Although there are pockets of darkness, for the most part this neighborhood is pretty well-lit. Investigators tell Crime Watch Daily in the early morning hours of July 10, Seth was walking home. He was only about a block and a half away from home when he was gunned down, shot in the back.

"The officers who were there and they said 'Yeah, he was quite talkative, he did not realize he had been shot,'" said Joel Rich, Seth's father.

But an hour and a half later at a nearby hospital, Seth was pronounced dead.

Heartbreaking news to Kelsey Mulka. She was just on the phone with him, and in a split-second he was gone. Now Mulka is breaking news in our exclusive interview, revealing details, telling Crime Watch Daily there was no sign of trouble in his voice that terrible morning.

"I wasn't alarmed," said Mulka.

"He's kind of known as a goofball, but to me it was very clear to me that there was so much more," said Mulka. "It didn't matter who you were, where you came from or where you were going. If he thought you were in trouble, he wanted to help. If you were sad he was going to make you happy, he was going to make you laugh."

Still reeling from Seth's death, Kelsey is horrified to discover that the story of a conspiracy theory is swirling around his death. It all began on Dutch television. The founder of Wikileaks, Julian Assange, made a shocking assertion.

ASSANGE: There's a 27-year-old that works for the DNC who was shot in the back, murdered.

ANCHOR: That was just a robbery, I believe wasn't it?

ASSANGE: No, there's no finding.

ANCHOR: What are you suggesting?

Assange suggested Seth Rich may have become a target after being accused of leaking DNC emails, which led to the resignation of its chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

Seth's best friend, Michael Cass-Antony, is also breaking his silence in this exclusive interview, telling Crime Watch Daily he's disgusted by the reports.

"All those lies that are being bandied about in the news are just that, and the reason that nobody close to him has refuted them is because there's no reason to," said Cass-Antony. "Because he spoke for himself. Because anybody who knows him knows how good of a person he was, knows how much he cared for the DNC and for where he worked and how much he believed in his cause."

But it's not just those close to Seth who adamantly deny those shocking claims. The police department in D.C. doesn't buy it either. The Metropolitan Police Department of the District of Columbia released an official statement which reads, in part:

"At this time, there is no indication that Seth Rich's death is connected to his employment at the DNC." -- Metro DC Police

And just the suggestion of Seth's shooting being a political hit has his parents outraged.

Seth's mom and dad want to set the record straight about the character of their beloved son, and disclose details of this case only to Crime Watch Daily.

"He had just found out he was going to go to work for the Clinton campaign doing data analysis and helping getting people out to vote," said

Seth's parents say he got the offer but tragically never had the chance to accept. They found the beginnings of his letter of acceptance in a draft email on his computer. Seth had only typed two lines, and his parents are sharing it with us.

"'All my life I wanted to be in a position that I can make a difference.' That resonates with me because that is the heart of what my son would have said, and working on Hillary's campaign, he would be making a difference," said Mary Rich, Seth's mother.

Police suspect Seth's murder is connected to a recent rash of robberies.

"There were a few robberies that we have investigated that we're looking into to see if those parties involved in those robberies could be the parties involved in our murder," said D.C. Police Captain Anthony Haythe.

But investigators go on record to confirm that Seth still had his wallet, watch and phone when he was discovered shot in the street.

continued at link......

Click for Full Text!


Poster Comment:

Yeah,he was murdered during a robbery. That's why he wasn't robbed.

I am convinced that his murder had nothing to do with him informing on Clinton/DNC "irregularities" .

Ok,ok,reasonably certain.

OK,OK,OK,I hear they have been making a honest effort to order the murders of fewer people this year than last year because they have mellowed out now that they are geezers. Happy now?

C'mon,people! How many times do we have to read news reports of informers or suspected informers close to the Clintons being murdered before it begins to dawn on people that all these murdered people had ONE thing in common?Subscribe to *Crime and Corruption*

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#12. To: sneakypete (#10)

What sort of government replaces the non-working nightmare we have now all depends on if the globalists or the nationalists win the dust up that follows.

I don't know that history shows us any example at all of an oppressive, native government being overthrown and replaced with one that truly cherishes rights and liberties. In the case of the US revolution, what was deposed was a foreign monarchy over a land that was largely untamed where self sufficiency was a requirement of survival.

Maybe there have been a few cases of oppressive dictatorships being brought down, but whether they were cases where general freedoms were restored, taxes repealed, and government bureaucracy was significantly scaled back, I don't know. People just have a natural tendency to take control of all that is around them, and even when revolutions occur, it's usually not for the purpose of giving, but of taking.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-05-23   11:48:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Pinguinite (#12)

Maybe there have been a few cases of oppressive dictatorships being brought down, but whether they were cases where general freedoms were restored, taxes repealed, and government bureaucracy was significantly scaled back, I don't know. People just have a natural tendency to take control of all that is around them, and even when revolutions occur, it's usually not for the purpose of giving, but of taking.

History is full of examples. Kicking the Catholic Church out of ruling authority all over Europe is one prime example.

Removing monarchies from power all over Europe is another.

The nation created by the America Revolution is another.

Then there are examples due to losing wars,like when Japan lost WW-2 and we forced the Japanese to form another type of government with the Emperor only being a figurehead,and forcing the Nazi's out of power in Germany.

Then there is the example of the west,primarily America,forcing the communists into bankruptcy that resulted in the total collapse and replacement of the communist system there.

Right at this moment the whole west seems to be going through a reverse phase as we are not only allowing medieval jihadists to come in to destroy our nations,we are even paying them for doing so,

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-05-23   12:27:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: sneakypete (#13)

I did mention the US revolution being an exception as it throws off not a native government but a foreign one, and any colonial revolution would qualify. The US was still mostly frontier, even in the east by today's standards, and people were acclimated to self-sufficiency (unlike today) which factored into their politics.

The French revolution deposing it's monarchy was a disaster for the French, and monarchies are not necessarily bad in any event, though it depends entirely on the monarch. I know England had, I think it was one of the King James's for about 3 years but he did such a poor job the English basically fired him and he accepted peaceful and not uncomfortable exile, though maybe my facts aren't quite right on that. Certainly people living under a monarch in the past have had, in sum, more rights and less taxation than present day USA.

But the problem with revolutions is that the rebels that take control invariably do just that, imposing their values on the population just freed from the values of the previous government. And if the kingpin rebel doesn't take control, then some underling more ambitious will cut him down and replace him. But even well meaning people will cause harm by trying to do good. It's a One Ring to Rule Them All type thing. Power corrupts.

So if/when the US fed apparatus collapses, it would create a vacuum of power that any new government would quickly fill. It's one of the reasons I see the proper future of the USA being a breakup into perhaps 6-8 different countries. It's the only way to dissolve the huge black hole in DC sucking up all that's good in the country. Decentralization/outsourcing is already a corporate reality and I think it needs to become a political reality, and I think technology will help make that happen, in time.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-05-23   13:22:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Pinguinite (#14)

Decentralization/outsourcing is already a corporate reality and I think it needs to become a political reality, and I think technology will help make that happen, in time.

Politically it is all about centralizing,and thanks to today's ability to handle data,it will be virtually impossible for a revolution to happen again,ever.

The first,and most important thing they are going to do is eliminate cash and create a digital debit and credit system that contains ALL of every individual on Earth's entire history.

Piss off some government flunky or just be known to run your mouth about "nonsense" like individual liberties,and you are toast. There will be no running and hiding from the authorities because there will be no cash and all of your digital assets will have disappeared the instant some minimum wage government flunkie was ordered to delete your personal ID number.

You won't even be able to buy a cup of coffee at the convenience store where you dialed the toll-free number to tell the authorities where to come and pick you up to take you to the salt mines because people that don't exist don't have bank accounts or ID numbers. The ONLY thing you can do for free is call to turn yourself in.

Beware the cashless society.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-05-23   18:35:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: sneakypete (#0)

Yeah,he was murdered during a robbery. That's why he wasn't robbed.

It is not necessarily correct to conclude that Rich was not robbed because his wallet, phone, and watch were not taken. It is possible that the most valuable possession on his person, and the only thing of interest, was a thumb drive with gigabits of data.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-05-23   19:28:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: sneakypete (#15)

There will be no running and hiding from the authorities because there will be no cash and all of your digital assets will have disappeared the instant some minimum wage government flunkie was ordered to delete your personal ID number.

Even with digital money, control will not necessarily reside with the government. Bitcoin is a decentralized currency that no government, central bank or other entity, governmental or non-governmental, can control. It's not possible to delete a bitcoin wallet. At least not until quantum computing becomes a reality, and then someone will make a quantum currency.

Of course govs will create their own digital currency which would/could be as you describe. But Bitcoin has real market worth that would compete with any electronic debit currency.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-05-23   21:37:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Pinguinite, sneakypete (#17)

Bitcoin is a decentralized currency that no government, central bank or other entity, governmental or non-governmental, can control.

Government can quite easily prohibit any and all corporate entities from engaging in any bitcoin transaction. You can be a bitcoin millionaire and not be able to buy a cup of coffee.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-05-23   21:57:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: nolu chan, yukon clone (#18)

Government can quite easily prohibit any and all corporate entities from engaging in any bitcoin transaction. You can be a bitcoin millionaire and not be able to buy a cup of coffee.

Thanks, yukon clone. We really needed your authoritarian view about how great any government *is.*

buckeroo  posted on  2017-05-23   22:11:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: nolu chan (#18)

Government can quite easily prohibit any and all corporate entities from engaging in any bitcoin transaction. You can be a bitcoin millionaire and not be able to buy a cup of coffee.

Market forces would cause exchange services to arise. Corps could buy and sell through such exchanges, which would set gov coin prices to match current bitcoin value.

The possibilities are rather endless with the cat and mouse situation that might be created. I'm sure if it was logistically possible to outlaw bitcoin, it would have been done so by now.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-05-23   22:21:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: nolu chan (#16)

It is not necessarily correct to conclude that Rich was not robbed because his wallet, phone, and watch were not taken. It is possible that the most valuable possession on his person, and the only thing of interest, was a thumb drive with gigabits of data.

I'd say it's more likely than just "possible" that is EXACTLY what happened.

He wasn't murdered by random by someone who couldn't even be bothered to steal his money or jewelry. Murderers don't work for charity.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-05-23   22:47:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Pinguinite (#17)

But Bitcoin has real market worth that would compete with any electronic debit currency.

No it won't and can't because there won't be anywhere you can legally spend it. What good is money to you that you can't use?

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-05-23   22:48:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: nolu chan (#18) (Edited)

Government can quite easily prohibit any and all corporate entities from engaging in any bitcoin transaction. You can be a bitcoin millionaire and not be able to buy a cup of coffee.

BINGO!

Once money goes digital,we are all slaves.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-05-23   22:49:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Pinguinite, nolu chan, All (#23)

Ping to #22

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-05-23   22:51:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Pinguinite, sneakypete (#20)

Corps could buy and sell through such exchanges, which would set gov coin prices to match current bitcoin value.

The possibilities are rather endless with the cat and mouse situation that might be created.

A corporation is "[a]n artificial person or legal entity created by or under the authority of the laws of a state." Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Ed.

If the government is challenged by bitcoin, the response can be to make the penalty for any infringing corporation to be dissolved. The corporate entity would cease to exist. WalMart could not do business on a mass scale in illegal digital currency on a down low basis where they would not be caught. Corporations would not touch the crap.

The NSA could shut down such a currency at will. The corporate world cannot depend on a currency that could be drained dry like Mt. Gox.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-05-23   23:20:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: sneakypete (#23)

Once money goes digital,we are all slaves.

India has been moving to a cashless, digital currency.

I would not want any part of that, but the world can observe how it turns out.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-05-23   23:29:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: sneakypete (#22)

No it won't and can't because there won't be anywhere you can legally spend it. What good is money to you that you can't use?

Bitcoin is information, and "spending" consists of trading information. You can legally "spend" bitcoin anywhere Freedom of Speech exists.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-05-23   23:52:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: sneakypete (#23)

Once money goes digital,we are all slaves.

No, not so fast.

Cryptocurrency, like many other things, can be used by either the forces of evil or forces of niceness (to quote Get Smart). As I said, if it were logistically/legally possible to outlaw bitcoin, it would probably have been done by now.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-05-23   23:58:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: nolu chan (#25)

The NSA could shut down such a currency at will. .

Since bitcoin is decentralized, that would be quite a task. Bitcoin is based on BlockChain technology, which is a redundant database distributed throughout the net. The authority for who has how much bitcoin is essentially by popular consensus among all nodes (databases) in the blockchain as a whole. So if you managed to fool one node or even several nodes into saying you were a bitcoin billionaire, once other nodes failed to agree, the errant nodes would correct the error, and you'd be poor again.

Nuclear war could take out the entire western hemisphere, and blockchain nodes in the eastern hemisphere would carry on registering bitcoin transactions. Or vice versa.

I suppose the only conceivable way to kill bitcoin would be with a virus that would be tuned only to attack blockchain nodes, the virus scheduled to wipe out nodes at a universally set time. But even with that, it's only a hope that all nodes would be infected by the appointed hour, and even then, there's the potential for backup nodes.

If the government is challenged by bitcoin, the response can be to make the penalty for any infringing corporation to be dissolved. The corporate entity would cease to exist.

You seemed to have missed my point.

Say that happened and Walmart only dealt in "legal" digital currency. I have bitcoin and want something from Walmart but they don't take bitcoin. Fine. I'll exchange my bitcoin for state sanctioned currency with some third party exchange vendor, and then I can buy from Walmart. With automation, the transaction could take all of an extra 5 nanoseconds.

Corporations would not touch the crap.

They don't have to. Technology trumps the law, in this case.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-05-24   0:12:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: nolu chan (#26)

India has been moving to a cashless, digital currency.

I would not want any part of that, but the world can observe how it turns out.

Indeed we will. Digital currency is coming as part of the exponentially increasing growth of technology. It can't be stopped as a matter of "natural" technological progression. While digital currency will certainly be alluring for governments that see it as a means to greater control (something it appears we both agree is undesirable) I theorize acclimation of the populace to use of digital money will have the unexpected side effect of opening the doors to much more widespread acceptance of decentralized currency as well, hense my response to your hypothetical scenario with Walmart. In fact, since exchanges of currency will be possible to complete while standing in front of a cashier, countries themselves will start to experience much more competition between themselves. Stores could accept any currency the spender happens to have whether it's pounds, yen, euro's, rupee's or... bitcoin. Or if not bitcoin, then fine, exchange bitcoin for something else while people behind you in line wait a few seconds more.

But countries that have failing digital currencies may end up eventually seeing their currency fall to disuse in favor of foreign currencies even within their own borders. Digital currency won't be the authoritarian wet dream some may be expecting.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-05-24   0:24:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Pinguinite, sneakypete (#27)

Bitcoin is information, and "spending" consists of trading information. You can legally "spend" bitcoin anywhere Freedom of Speech exists.

As for U.S. law and your creative interpretations of it, remind me again about why you emigrated to Ecuador.

Only the U.S. government has authority to issue legal currency within the United States. Make any phony crap and issue it as currency and you get prosecuted.

Bitcoin is considered property and not legal tender in any U.S. jurisdiction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_currency

In 2013, Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), a bureau of the US Treasury, in contrast to its regulations defining currency as "the coin and paper money of the United States or of any other country that [i] is designated as legal tender and that [ii] circulates and [iii] is customarily used and accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance", also called "real currency" by FinCEN, defined virtual currency as "a medium of exchange that operates like a currency in some environments, but does not have all the attributes of real currency". In particular, virtual currency does not have legal tender status in any jurisdiction.[2]

[...]

The IRS decided in March 2014, to treat bitcoin and other virtual currencies as property for tax purposes, not currency.[11][12]

[...]

A cryptocurrency is a digital currency using cryptography to secure transactions and to control the creation of new currency units.[21] Since not all virtual currencies use cryptography, not all virtual currencies are cryptocurrencies. Cryptocurrencies are generally not legal tender. Ecuador is the first country attempting a government run digital currency -no cryptocurrency; during the introductory phase from Christmas Eve 2014 until mid February 2015 people can open accounts and change passwords. At the end of February 2015 transactions of electronic money will be possible.[22][23]

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ecuador-bans-bitcoin-favor-own-national-cryptocurrency/

Ecuador Bans Bitcoin In Favor Of Own National Cryptocurrency

Venzen Khaosan on 27/07/2014

On the 23rd of July, the government of Ecuador effectively banned bitcoin, along with all other cryptocurrencies, reports the PanAm Post. The legislation forms part of a reform of the country’s monetary and financial laws. The bill was approved by 91 members of parliament, with 22 votes against and 3 abstentions. President Rafael Correa, who introduced the reform bill, will sign it into law.

[...]

nolu chan  posted on  2017-05-24   16:51:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Pinguinite (#29)

Say that happened and Walmart only dealt in "legal" digital currency. I have bitcoin and want something from Walmart but they don't take bitcoin. Fine. I'll exchange my bitcoin for state sanctioned currency with some third party exchange vendor, and then I can buy from Walmart. With automation, the transaction could take all of an extra 5 nanoseconds.

There will be no such thing as currency. ONLY digital credits and debits,all ran through a government money exchange.

And don't even try to say the bankers will never allow this to happen because they are the ones behind it.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-05-24   20:27:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Pinguinite (#30)

In fact, since exchanges of currency will be possible to complete while standing in front of a cashier, countries themselves will start to experience much more competition between themselves. Stores could accept any currency the spender happens to have whether it's pounds, yen, euro's, rupee's or... bitcoin. Or if not bitcoin, then fine, exchange bitcoin for something else while people behind you in line wait a few seconds more.

There will be no exchange rates. One World Government,Inc will control digital banking and 1 credit will have the same purchasing power in New Delhi that it does in Berlin.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-05-24   20:29:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: nolu chan (#31)

As for U.S. law and your creative interpretations of it, remind me again about why you emigrated to Ecuador.

Because I like it better. I'll also remind you that a common tactic employed by those losing a debate is to resort to insults. You should be above that.

Only the U.S. government has authority to issue legal currency within the United States. Make any phony crap and issue it as currency and you get prosecuted.

Prosecution is only for imitating US legal tender currency, otherwise known as counterfeiting. Any community wanting to use poker chips as money is free to do so, so long as no representation made about the poker chips being US issued currency.

Bitcoin is considered property and not legal tender in any U.S. jurisdiction.

In particular, virtual currency does not have legal tender status in any jurisdiction.[2]

You bolded the part about currency having "legal tender status". But what is "legal tender"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but currency that is "legal tender" means (at least in the USA) that if you offer payment having that status and the receiver refuses to accept it, the debt is considered paid. In other words, legal tender laws force people to accept crap money as something of real value. Currency is given such status when it has no intrinsic value on its own, as currency with intrinsic value, such as gold and silver does not require legal tender status.

So quite naturally, bitcoin will never, ever, ever have legal tender status. Ever. If someone doesn't want it, they suffer no penalty for refusing it. But even so, bitcoin still is a marketable commodity, albeit a virtual one.

And, by the way, FINCEN doesn't make federal law anyway. And neither does the IRS.

Ecuador Bans Bitcoin In Favor Of Own National Cryptocurrency

Meaning what, exactly? That I could go to jail because I have access to bitcoin which exists solely as data in redundant databases worldwide, And I happen to be walking down the street in Ecuador? Do you think Ecuador law calls for imprisoning anyone who has *access* to bitcoin?

Did you know that you can get a bitcoin debit card? What you do is open an account at an international vendor. They send you a plastic debit card. You deposit bitcoin in your debit card account. And then when you use your card at any point of sale worldwide, or an ATM, the transaction goes through and your account is deducted the equivalent amount of bitcoin, including service fees, of course. So in this case, bitcoin doesn't even enter Ecuador jurisdiction. The exchange between bitcoin and the national currency (US Dollars) takes place in the country having the bitcoin debit card service. So Ecuador cannot do squat (it's not unusual for stupid laws to be passed in Latin America). Did you hear that President Maduro in Venezuela wants to ban lines of people that extend out of bakeries? Apparently the country's food shortage is embarrassing so this is his way of making people not hungry.

But this is what I meant about technology trumping law. This is reality today. Check out wirex: https://wirexapp.com/

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-05-25   1:45:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: sneakypete (#33)

There will be no exchange rates.

Top 40 sites for exchanging bitcoin. https://www.bestbitcoinexchange.io/

One World Government,Inc will control digital banking and 1 credit will have the same purchasing power in New Delhi that it does in Berlin.

Not so sure how easy that will work out. It's one of the things dogging the Euro. In any event, right now investors xfer wealth between fiat currencies as worldwide political and market conditions change, and this helps prop up all currencies. For example, when people lose confidence in the Euro, they sell Euros and buy US dollars. Then when things don't look good for the USD, they sell dollars and buy, say Japanese Yen.

But if there's only one world currency, then it won't be possible to flee to other currencies. So instead, they'll flee to commodities like oil, corn and gold. So in the end, even a one-world currency will suffer fluctuations in real value, arguably even moreso than happens today with competing national currencies.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-05-25   1:58:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Pinguinite (#35)

There will be no exchange rates.

Top 40 sites for exchanging bitcoin. https://www.bestbitcoinexchange.io/

It's not all that complex,and I honestly can't understand why you don't "get it".

Is it because you don't WANT to "get it"?

Just exactly what do YOU think the words "One World Government" means?

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-05-25   17:54:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Pinguinite (#34)

As for U.S. law and your creative interpretations of it, remind me again about why you emigrated to Ecuador.

Because I like it better. I'll also remind you that a common tactic employed by those losing a debate is to resort to insults. You should be above that.

Give up with that crap already. You documented it all online and I have copies of your posts and you know it.

Your stated legal arguments were legal nonsense, just as your current legal arguments are delusional.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

http://www.cjmciver.org/cgi-bin/lwanread.cgi?2004-09-19 [can no longer access at link]

In your article on The Trial, you stated:

* If I proceed, I've got a 50/50 chance of winning, but I'm being handed a sure 'win' of sorts -- in the form of no criminal record -- on a silver platter.

At that moment the expatriation argument seemed to weigh heaviest of all things. This whole 'justice' system is a joke and I had the opportunity to make it all go away.

I looked at the judge and in what might be my most infamous moment, said 'I'll take it'.

[...]

I'm intrigued, and plan to visit this place -- I'll call it Oz -- and see for myself what it's like, because in my personal situation, with no wife, no kids, and a skill where geography means nothing, I actually have little practical need to stay in America. If learning a new language is the biggest obstical, I can overcome it. I have family that I love and very good friends that are very dear to me here, but beyond that, it seems all the land of the free has to offer me is continued second rate citizenship which culminated with criminal charges on May 17th. Is that actually going to change? The famed retort 'If you don't like America, why don't you leave' isn't just a sarcastic comment anymore. Beyond being a suggestion, it might be a good idea.

When you present your wackaloon views of the law to police or courts, it does not end well. You presumed you can present your nutbaggery to the police and act like a jerk and not face consequences.

What you proved is that you have a right to express your views on the law, and when you act on your misguided views, the police have the right to put your butt in jail. When the rubber met the road, you pleaded guilty, and you had no case to proceed with other than fringe tax protester gobbledygook.

As for your LWAN (Living Without A Number) delusion, you had a Social Security Number all the time, just as you have one now. Once you have one, it stays with you, delusional tax protester gobbledygook notwithstanding. Nor do your delusions entitle you to drive without a valid license, or with a suspended license, without consequences.

Regarding the law, you have a penchant to state things as fact which are directly contrary to actual law or opinions of the U.S. Supreme Court. You are entitled to your opinion even if it is delusional and has no basis in law. Others are entitled to state actual law.

As you discovered, acting on your delusions may entitle you to a jail cell.

And you made clear that you decided to leave the U.S. because you felt all the country had to offer you was continued second rate citizenship, and the best way to make the U.S. justice system leave your life would be for you to leave the country.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-05-25   17:55:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: nolu chan (#37)

You seem to have forgotten the discussion was about digital current, not me. You should learn to lose with at least a little bit of grace instead of resorting to insults and attacking with issues not raised.

Lawyer strategy: When the law is on your side, pound on the law. When the facts are on your side pound on the facts. When neither is on your side, pound on the table.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-05-25   23:26:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: sneakypete (#36)

It's not all that complex,and I honestly can't understand why you don't "get it".

Is it because you don't WANT to "get it"?

Just exactly what do YOU think the words "One World Government" means?

Maybe I don't get it. But I suspect you don't either. We're not communicating very well today, are we?

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-05-26   2:58:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Pinguinite (#39)

We're not communicating very well today, are we?

We don't seem to be.

Maybe a better explanation is that a One World Government was the dream of Stalin,Hitler,and every other dictator in history.

How open do you think Stalin or Hitler would have been to an underground economy not under their control that was fueled by bitcoins?

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-05-26   6:11:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: sneakypete (#40)

How open do you think Stalin or Hitler would have been to an underground economy not under their control that was fueled by bitcoins?

Black markets are never liked by those in control. But they nevertheless exist when market forces are sufficient to create them and the law is insufficient to prevent them from arising, and that is the case with bitcoin.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-05-26   10:13:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Pinguinite (#41)

Black markets are never liked by those in control. But they nevertheless exist when market forces are sufficient to create them and the law is insufficient to prevent them from arising, and that is the case with bitcoin.

We are in the digital age now,bubba. You,or all people should be able to understand the implications. You work in the field.

There will be NO black markets because THERE WILL BE NO ACTUAL MONEY. Only digits on a computer screen that can be transferred from one GOVERNMENT account to another GOVERNMENT account.

The CLOSEST you will be able to come to your fantasy of a black market is giving a neighborhood kid a ham for cutting your lawn. You won't be able to give him any money BECAUSE YOU WON'T HAVE ANY MONEY TO GIVE. ALL you will have is debits and credits on an account monitored and controlled by Big Massa Gubbermint.

If you try to pay the kid with credits,the system will take note of the credits and tax him on them.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-05-26   17:40:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: sneakypete (#42)

We are in the digital age now,bubba. You,or all people should be able to understand the implications. You work in the field.

Indeed I do, which is why I've advocated the position I have. I've taken the time to study cryptocurrency not long ago so I know more than just what one might surmise from a single article. But I guess I've done a poor job of explaining.

Yes, Bitcoin is digital. Yes, it works over the internet which can be monitored and even recorded by big brother. But it's also encrypted like many other things so the gov doing the recording will hardly be able to tell bitcoin transactions from ordinary credit card purchases. There is only one way to kill bitcoin and that is to kill the entire internet. But if that's done, gov controlled money will also be impossible. We'll be back to the 1970's.

I agree with you that one world gov is bad. But even if that comes and it presents a one-world, centrally controlled currency, I predict decentralized cryptocurrency like bitcoin will be there to compete.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-05-26   18:10:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Pinguinite (#38)

You seem to have forgotten the discussion was about digital current, not me. You should learn to lose with at least a little bit of grace instead of resorting to insults and attacking with issues not raised.

Lawyer strategy: When the law is on your side, pound on the law. When the facts are on your side pound on the facts. When neither is on your side, pound on the table.

No, it was about the power of the government.

You were babbling your sovereign citizen nonsense about how the government lacks power to enforce its laws against your sovereign citizen observations. I will not waste my time with your legal babble. The Federal government has enough power to regulate currency.

You pushed the babble of a tax fraudster. He was sent for a second stretch at Club Fed for fraud, and his son followed. The business was shut down by the Federal government and barred by permanent injunction from selling its bogus products regarding the law.

You decided you had the right to drive without a valid license. You tried your sovereign citizen nonsense with the local cops on a traffic stop for driving at night without headlights, was arrested for no valid license, and criminally convicted upon your plea of guilty.

You decided that the way for you to get out from under the sheer power of the local fuzz of Maryland was to retreat to Ecuador. But you still want to tell me that the Federal government is powerless to do much of anything in the face of your proclamations of bogus law.

As for your load of crap that you tried to unload on me that you went to Ecuador "because [you] like it better," that is contradicted by your own contemporary writings.

When the law is on your side, argue actual laws. When the facts are on your side, argue the facts. And when you have no real argument, make up sovereign citizen nonsense and proclaim the lack of power of the Federal government. Or the lack of power of the state of Maryland. But do it from Ecuador, and not in a U.S. courtroom, or to a cop. That ends predictably.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnSd-E3Hb3Y

Judge Hysterically Owns a Sovereign Citizen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aptvDqvt5M4

Sovereign Citizen in Court on Trial for No Valid Registration -- GUILTY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dvcd4Yzqjs

Sovereign Citizen: The Sitcom - Gettin' Tazed

nolu chan  posted on  2017-05-31   17:28:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: nolu chan (#44)

No, it was about the power of the government.

It was at the point of discussion about bitcoin where you suddenly decided to issue a personal attack instead of discussing the issue of the legality of bitcoin. If you think I said something about cryptocurrency that wasn't accurate, then the proper response, assuming you choose to respond at all, which is, of course optional on your part, would be to refute it, not issue a personal attack.

I am not the one that turned the discussion from bitcoin to me. That was you who did that. I suppose I should be flattered that you consider me so important.

Since you didn't post any legal material refuting my statement about it being legal for a community to use poker chips as money instead of US legal tender, and given that is your practice to do so, I think it's safe to assume you searched but found no such material.

Legal Tender laws create an obligation only on the receiver of legal tender, not the person who tenders. If two people make an exchange of maple leaves for real goods or services, it's not a violation of legal tender law. Counterfeit laws prohibit creating something that purports to be legal tender US currency. It is not against the law to make rounds of metal of whatever sort so long as no representation is made that they are legal US currency.

Now on the issue of cryptocurrency, I am a software professional and I have studied cryptocurrency and blockchain technology. So while you likely know more about so-called case law and such than me, I likely know more about Information Technology issues than you do, including bitcoin and cryptocurrency. That you despise me as greatly as you do doesn't change that. I suggest you grow up and get used to that fact. Once you do, you'll be amazed at what it's like to carry on objective discussions like an adult.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-06-01   2:02:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Pinguinite (#45)

[nc #44] No, it was about the power of the government.

[Pinguinite #45] It was at the point of discussion about bitcoin where you suddenly decided to issue a personal attack instead of discussing the issue of the legality of bitcoin.

No, I maintained the sheer power of the government to extinguish bitcoin.

[Pinguinite #17] Even with digital money, control will not necessarily reside with the government. Bitcoin is a decentralized currency that no government, central bank or other entity, governmental or non-governmental, can control. It's not possible to delete a bitcoin wallet. At least not until quantum computing becomes a reality, and then someone will make a quantum currency.

[nc #18] Government can quite easily prohibit any and all corporate entities from engaging in any bitcoin transaction. You can be a bitcoin millionaire and not be able to buy a cup of coffee.

[Pinguinite #20] I'm sure if it was logistically possible to outlaw bitcoin, it would have been done so by now.

[nc #25] If the government is challenged by bitcoin, the response can be to make the penalty for any infringing corporation to be dissolved. The corporate entity would cease to exist. WalMart could not do business on a mass scale in illegal digital currency on a down low basis where they would not be caught. Corporations would not touch the crap. The NSA could shut down such a currency at will. The corporate world cannot depend on a currency that could be drained dry like Mt. Gox.

[Pinguinite #27] Bitcoin is information, and "spending" consists of trading information. You can legally "spend" bitcoin anywhere Freedom of Speech exists.

[Pinguinite #29]

Since bitcoin is decentralized, that would be quite a task. Bitcoin is based on BlockChain technology, which is a redundant database distributed throughout the net. The authority for who has how much bitcoin is essentially by popular consensus among all nodes (databases) in the blockchain as a whole. So if you managed to fool one node or even several nodes into saying you were a bitcoin billionaire, once other nodes failed to agree, the errant nodes would correct the error, and you'd be poor again.

Nuclear war could take out the entire western hemisphere, and blockchain nodes in the eastern hemisphere would carry on registering bitcoin transactions. Or vice versa.

I suppose the only conceivable way to kill bitcoin would be with a virus that would be tuned only to attack blockchain nodes, the virus scheduled to wipe out nodes at a universally set time. But even with that, it's only a hope that all nodes would be infected by the appointed hour, and even then, there's the potential for backup nodes.

In the real world, millions were siphoned off Mt. Gox, the whole thing went bust, nothing was recovered. Crypto currency offers no protection whatever if a seller is a fraud, or your Mt. Gox goes bust.

You fail to acknowledge the forks that have occurred by accident, or address the capability of the NSA to intentionally create more forks.

As the SHA1 hash has been broken, you do not address your full faith and confidence in SHA256. The list goes on. I will humor you with some seperate posts addressing Bitcoin issues and deficiencies.

[nc #31]

As for U.S. law and your creative interpretations of it, remind me again about why you emigrated to Ecuador.

Only the U.S. government has authority to issue legal currency within the United States. Make any phony crap and issue it as currency and you get prosecuted.

Bitcoin is considered property and not legal tender in any U.S. jurisdiction.

[Pinguinite #34]

[nc] As for U.S. law and your creative interpretations of it, remind me again about why you emigrated to Ecuador.

Because I like it better. I'll also remind you that a common tactic employed by those losing a debate is to resort to insults. You should be above that.

[nc #37] you made clear that you decided to leave the U.S. because you felt all the country had to offer you was continued second rate citizenship, and the best way to make the U.S. justice system leave your life would be for you to leave the country.

[Pinguinite #38] You seem to have forgotten the discussion was about digital current, not me.

[nc #44] No, it was about the power of the government. You were babbling your sovereign citizen nonsense about how the government lacks power to enforce its laws against your sovereign citizen observations. I will not waste my time with your legal babble. The Federal government has enough power to regulate currency.

[Pinguinite #45] It was at the point of discussion about bitcoin where you suddenly decided to issue a personal attack instead of discussing the issue of the legality of bitcoin. If you think I said something about cryptocurrency that wasn't accurate, then the proper response, assuming you choose to respond at all, which is, of course optional on your part, would be to refute it, not issue a personal attack.

You were making yet another of your delusional sovereign citizen claims that the government lacks the power to do whatever it is that you feel impinges upon your freedom to do whatever you please. The government has no such lack of power. When the government demonstrated such power to you personally, you published at length about your infantile, self-destructive actions, stated your only alternative was to leave the country, published your intent to go on a shopping tour of South or Central America for a place to go, and that was before you had seen Ecuador.

There is no current issue of the legality of bitcoin. It is legal as property. If the price of your bitcoin (investment property) appreciates at all, and you buy a cup of coffee and exchange your bitcoin property for the coffee, you have a capital gain which is required to be reported to the IRS at tax time (under U.S. law). That is true for each and every such transaction, however small the gain.

If the value of your bitcoin (investment property) depreciates drasticly, say 50%, and your 100K becomes 50K, you run up against a $3,000 limit on property losses for single and married filers. If it were money your loss claim would be bigger... but Bitcoin is not money.

[Pinguinite #45] I am not the one that turned the discussion from bitcoin to me. That was you who did that. I suppose I should be flattered that you consider me so important.

You turned the discussion from Bitcoin to your delusional sovereign citizen observations about the law and the power of the government.

[Pinguinite #45]Since you didn't post any legal material refuting my statement about it being legal for a community to use poker chips as money instead of US legal tender, and given that is your practice to do so, I think it's safe to assume you searched but found no such material.

Legal Tender laws create an obligation only on the receiver of legal tender, not the person who tenders. If two people make an exchange of maple leaves for real goods or services, it's not a violation of legal tender law. Counterfeit laws prohibit creating something that purports to be legal tender US currency. It is not against the law to make rounds of metal of whatever sort so long as no representation is made that they are legal US currency.

It appears you do not understand the meaning of the word money. Personal property is not money.

Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Ed.

Money. In usual and ordinary acceptation it means coins and paper currency used as circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidence of debt, or other personal or real estate.

No, since I did not entertain another discussion of one of your delusional sovereign citizen infantile excursions into fantasy land, it is not safe to assume that I have neither found or already abundantly knew of such material. Your opinions on U.S. law are so delusional that any exposition would be embarrassing and humiliating to a normal person. I did not want to waste my time, knowing that nothing that can be said would make any difference. It would be like an attempt to educate a doorknob.

Your claim about money is precisely analagous to your prior delusional crap about not needing a valid license to drive, and your detailed publishing of your presumed, but hopelessly skewed, knowledge of the law.

Rounds of metal and poker chips are not money. If you create rounds of metal, with a likeness of Ron Paul on them, and circulate them as money in competition with real money, you may get a criminal conviction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_von_NotHaus

Bernard von NotHaus is the creator of the Liberty Dollar and co-founder of the Royal Hawaiian Mint Company, in Hawaii, U.S.A. He created the Free Marijuana Church of Honolulu. Von NotHaus was convicted of counterfeiting in 2011, allegedly for the purpose of domestic terrorism.

According to the evidence introduced during his 2011 federal criminal trial in connection with his involvement with the Liberty Dollar, von NotHaus was the founder of an organization called the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Code, commonly known as NORFED and also known as Liberty Services. The FBI claimed that NORFED's purpose was to mix Liberty Dollars into the current money of the United States and that NORFED intended for the Liberty Dollar to be used as current money in order to limit reliance on, and to compete with, United States currency

[...]

In connection with the Liberty Dollar business, a federal grand jury brought an indictment against von NotHaus and three others in May 2009 accusing him of counterfeiting U.S. currency. Von NotHaus was arrested on June 6, 2009 and entered a plea of not guilty on July 28.

In at least one interview, von NotHaus had been quoted as saying: "We never refer to the American Liberty as a coin.... The word ‘coin’ is a government-controlled term. This is currency that is free from government control.”

On March 18, 2011, after a 90-minute jury deliberation, von NotHaus was found guilty on various counts, including the making of "counterfeit coins" (resembling legal tender coins). Attorney for the Western District of [North Carolina], Anne M. Tompkins, described Bernard von NotHaus and the Liberty dollar as "a unique form of domestic terrorism" that is trying "to undermine the legitimate currency of this country." The Justice Department press release quotes her as saying: “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country".

According to the Associated Press:

Federal prosecutors successfully argued that von NotHaus was, in fact, trying to pass off the silver coins as U.S. currency. Coming in denominations of 5, 10, 20, and 50, the Liberty Dollars also featured a dollar sign, the word "dollar" and the motto "Trust in God," similar to the "In God We Trust" that appears on U.S. coins.

Von NotHaus appealed his conviction. Reemphasizing his contempt for the U.S. dollar, the appeal stated:

...if anything is clear from the evidence presented at trial, it is that the last thing Mr. von NotHaus wanted was for Liberty Dollars [to] be confused with coins issued by the United States government...His intention – to protest the Federal Reserve system – has always been plain. The jury's verdict conflates a program created to function as an alternative to the Federal Reserve system with one designed to [deceive] people into believing it was the very thing Mr. von NotHaus was protesting in the first place...the Liberty Dollars was not a counterfeit and was not intended to function as such. The verdict is a perversion of the counterfeiting statutes and should be set aside.

When asked about the government's motive for accusing him of terrorism, von NotHaus scoffed, "This is the United States government. It's got all the guns, all the surveillance, all the tanks, it has nuclear weapons, and it's worried about some ex-surfer guy making his own money? Give me a break!"

On Nov 11th, 2014 Judge Voorhees denied von NotHaus' Motion for Acquittal. On December 2, 2014 he was sentenced to 6 months house arrest, with 3 years probation. In an email he stated that his probation has been terminated early and he is now truly free. Termination of probation was formally granted December 9, 2015 by U.S. District Judge Richard L. Voorhees:

It took the jury all of 90 minutes to reach a unanimous verdict of guilty.

Your knowledge of the actual law is abysmal, or you just like to say make believe nonsense, knowing it is make believe nonsense.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-06-02   17:42:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Pinguinite (#45)

[Pinguinite #45] Now on the issue of cryptocurrency, I am a software professional and I have studied cryptocurrency and blockchain technology. So while you likely know more about so-called case law and such than me, I likely know more about Information Technology issues than you do, including bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

Yeah, yeah. I spent some years doing absolutely nothing but software design and coding myself. It was so far back, Windows did not exist, but MS-DOS and Z-DOS did.

I am glad you have studied cryptocurrency and blockchain technology. I have been familiar with hashing and asynchronous encryption for about 30 years. I worked with online and offline encryption systems 50 years ago.

Your claims that the government is powerless against the anonymity of Bitcoin merely demonstrates your infantile naivete. It ranks up there with others' belief that the Swiss would never give up the identities behind numbered accounts. When it comes to raw power, the U.S. government has plenty. You can make believe it does not until you become the focus of its attention. Then you can take your standup act to Ecuador.

Your lack of imagination about Bitcoin is breathtaking.

The U.S. Government can overtly, or covertly, create thousands of competing crypto-currencies.

The Government can create its own cryptocurrency and create it's own Mt. Gox. It can make Bitcoin less attractive than its own product by restrictive regulations not applicable to its own product.

The U.S. Government has an extraordinary ability to print money. It could pump and dump Bitcoins driving the value up and down. If you can do that, and know in advance when the value will go up and down, there's some Bitcoin to be made in them thar hills. It is unregulated. A source with enough resources can destroy Bitcoin.

The tax regulations make its use extremely onerous, at least for those who care about the law. At a tax audit, some poor bastard will experience little success with sovereign citizen excuses.

That's like the nutbags in the videos telling cops they do not need a valid license and they know the law, and I'm not getting out of the car, and don't you break my window, ... and don't tase me bro. Then they get tased and become a howling Youtube sensation.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-06-02   17:44:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Pinguinite (#45)

[Pinguinite #17] Bitcoin is a decentralized currency that no government, central bank or other entity, governmental or non-governmental, can control.

And on June 1, 2017 it was reported that "China's three largest bitcoin exchanges are allowing customers to withdraw bitcoins from their accounts," and "OKCoin China resumed withdrawals for traders."

When they can stop and resume withdrawals at will, I would consider that a modicum of control. If all my Bitcoin property is in there, that's awful. And there is nowhere to file a complaint but a rant on Youtube or on a blog.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-01/bitcoin-surges-back-above-2450-after-china-eases-exchange-controls

Bitcoin Surges Back Above $2450 After China Eases Exchange Controls

by Tyler Durden
Jun 1, 2017 8:37 AM

Bitcoin has retraced over half its losses from last week's tumble, rallying back above $2450 overnight after news that China's three largest bitcoin exchanges are allowing customers to withdraw bitcoins from their accounts.

As CoinTelegraph reports, on May 31, local Chinese Bitcoin and cryptocurrency news source cnLedger reported that OKCoin China resumed withdrawals for traders.

[...]

nolu chan  posted on  2017-06-02   17:47:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Pinguinite (#45)

https://coincenter.org/entry/bitcoin-taxation-is-broken-here-s-how-to-fix-it

Bitcoin taxation is broken. Here’s how to fix it.

An exemption for small gains would take most of the headache out of using digital currencies like Bitcoin.

By Jerry Brito / April 12, 2017

We recently described what a bill creating a federal safe harbor for non-custodial uses of cryptocurrency should look like, and we’re now advocating for just such a bill in Congress. And now that it’s tax-filing season, today we’re proposing a simple legislation to create an exemption from taxation small personal gain on digital currency transactions. Here’s how we’d write such a cryptocurrency tax bill.

First, let’s define the narrow problem we want to address. While there are several things that could be improved with how the IRS treats cryptocurrency taxation and reporting, probably the simplest issue to focus on is the tax treatment itself.

In its March 2014 guidance, the IRS announced that cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin are treated as property, which means gains from sale or exchange are taxed as capital gains rather than ordinary income. This is good because capital gains rates are generally lower than tax rates on ordinary income. However, unlike traditional government-issued currencies, property does not enjoy a de minimis exemption.

This is in contrast to how foreign currencies are treated, which do enjoy an exemption. Say you buy 100 euros for 100 dollars because you’re spending the week in France. Before you get to France, the exchange rate of the Euro rises so that the €100 you bought are now worth $105. When you buy a baguette with your euros, you experience a gain, but the tax code has an de minimis exemption for personal foreign currency transactions, so you don’t have to report this gain on your taxes. As long as your gains per transaction are $200 or less, you’re good to go.

Such an exemption does not exist for non-currency property transactions. This means that every time you buy a cup of coffee, or an MP3 download, or anything else with bitcoin, it counts as a taxable event. If you’ve experienced a gain because the price of Bitcoin has appreciated between the time you acquired the bitcoin and the time you used it, you have to report it to the IRS at the end of the year, no matter how small the gain. Obviously this creates a lot of friction and discourages the use of Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency as an everyday payment method.

[...]

nolu chan  posted on  2017-06-02   17:48:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Pinguinite (#45)

http://www.investopedia.com/university/definitive-bitcoin-tax-guide-dont-let-irs-snow-you/

Bitcoin IRS Tax Guide For Individual Filers

By Ryan Selkis
Updated March 24, 2017 — 10:10 AM EDT

This tutorial takes an in-depth look at the coming tax consequences of IRS Notice 2014-21 for the U.S. Bitcoin industry.

While much has been written about the IRS tax guidance (first introduced March 2014) on virtual currencies, few have done comprehensive analyses of the plethora of record-keeping and enforcement challenges that will arise as a result of the agency's decision to treat Bitcoin as property rather than currency. Diverse stakeholders ranging from consumers, merchants, miners and Bitcoin service providers (all of whom may also be considered "investors" at various times) must now grapple with complex and unclear tax reporting requirements in the coming months - even though more clarifications and changes from the agency seem inevitable following the "public comment" period this spring.

We'll kick things off by outlining what Joe Consumer should discuss with his tax adviser in advance of filing his personal tax returns on April 15. For the sake of our article (and round numbers), we will assume that Joe is married and that he and his wife made a combined $100,000 of taxable income in 2016.

With that in mind, how should Joe report trading gains and losses for Bitcoin and any of his other alt-coin investments? How about purchases he made with Bitcoin?

What about the funds he lost in his trading account at the now-defunct Mt. Gox exchange - can those be written off? And how about that gift he gave to Dorian Nakamoto's fundraiser or the tips he received for his blog posts?

We'll attempt to tackle the basics for Joe Consumer, but the best synopsis may be this: Talk to a tax expert as soon as possible, even if you are one yourself.

Trading Gains & Losses

Property, Not Currency

The most widely reported aspect of the IRS ruling on Bitcoin has to do with its treatment as property. This is a favorable ruling for most investors given Bitcoin's stellar performance to date, as accrued long-term gains and losses will be taxed at the taxpayer's applicable capital gains rate (15% in Joe's case) rather than ordinary income rates (25% for Joe). For many early Bitcoin "miners" and investors, this constitutes a massive difference in marginal rates. That said, active traders who have racked up short-term capital gains may still be taxed at ordinary income rates.

Investors with trading losses, on the other hand, might not be so happy with the ruling. It will be much more difficult to write off bad Bitcoin bets now that they are considered property rather than currency. The IRS limits the amount of property losses (net capital losses, to be specific) that can be claimed on personal tax returns to $3,000 per year for both married and single filers, a limit that hasn't been raised since 1978. For these unfortunate folks, large short-term trading losses will need to be carried forward, in some cases for many years. Trading losers would have been much better off if they could have written off "foreign currency" losses against their ordinary income.

And this is the most basic application of the IRS guidance. Buckle up folks, because the rest of this article may blow your minds, not to mention demonstrate the dire need for the IRS to conform certain areas of the tax code to the new world's peer-to-peer structure. The full nuance of Bitcoin's property tax treatment is complex, but let's try to break it down piece by piece.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-06-02   17:50:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Pinguinite (#45)

http://www.investopedia.com/university/definitive-bitcoin-tax-guide-dont-let-irs-snow-you/definitive-bitcoin-tax-guide-chapter-2-bitcoin-commerce-taxable-events-ecommerce-taxation.asp

Bitcoin Tax Guide: E-commerce Taxation

By Ryan Selkis

Under Notice 2014-21, the IRS claims capital gains and losses will depend on whether a "virtual currency is a capital asset in the hands of a taxpayer." Yet since there is no way for consumers to earmark their Bitcoin wallets as "non-capital" accounts, this really means that if Bitcoin is held in a wallet for any time period, it can be viewed as an investment like a stock or bond. This would mean that almost every time Joe used Bitcoin to purchase something as small as a cup of coffee at his trendy urban coffee shop, he would realize a gain or loss. For long-term holders like Joe, who had experienced a 10- or 100-fold increase in their bitcoins' value, they might incur a 30-cent capital-gain tax on their daily $2 cup of coffee.

This is the real tax-reporting boondoggle, which could threaten widespread consumer adoption of Bitcoin. There is no exemption for "de minimis" property gains or losses as there is with foreign currencies. So while Joe can buy euros for a trip to Paris, and then cash them out at a 5% gain during his return voyage, he doesn't need to worry about reporting a dime of that gain until he's hit $200 in total gains. On the other hand, according to IRS property rules, Joe should be ready to record a 30-cent capital gain and aggregate his records (via Form 1099-B) for every single cup of coffee he buys.

The complexity quickly begins to spiral out of control from there. What happens when he is settling up with his friends to pay the bar tab? Is Joe able to select which specific wallets he uses for his coffee purchases so that it's easier for him to separate his trading gains and his consumption? Would it be considered a wash sale if Joe bought more bitcoins after spending all of his assets on patio furniture at Overstock (Nasdaq:OSTK) and stocking stuffers at Gyft (both of which accept Bitcoin as payment)?

Some have suggested it is unlikely that the IRS has the resources to enforce these new policies, and that the guidelines are not intended to penalize "consumers." Indeed, even Keith Aqui, author of the IRS notice, suggested to the Wall Street Journal that the agency merely meant to discourage tax evasion on large purchases. Exempting de minimis Bitcoin transactions from reporting would limit onerous and unnecessary tax-reporting requirements, while still preserving the IRS's ability to collect taxes from larger Bitcoin investors who have been buying cars and condos with their investment gains. But that would also take an act of Congress, not an IRS clarification. So don't hold your breath.

Still, the fact remains that anyone who holds Bitcoin for any length of time can be considered an investor under the IRS guidelines. Consequently, the guidance appears to promote Bitcoin's use by consumers who use "instant conversion" tools that buy bitcoins at the moment they are needed for a transaction (e.g. international remittance) rather than those who hold Bitcoin in a checking-account style wallet. These "instant buy" tools might be the consumer complement to widely available merchant solutions, which allow businesses to instantly convert Bitcoin purchases to U.S. dollars.

Many consumer advocates, including the Tax Foundation, have called the guidance "inappropriate" with respect to reporting requirements, and some believe that this will dissuade many from using virtual currency altogether. But if there is a chance that the purchasing power in Joe's Bitcoin "checking account" doubles next year, will he really mind paying taxes on those gains? If reporting (and perhaps withholding) software materializes to seamlessly track his spending and transactions, maybe not.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-06-02   17:51:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Pinguinite (#45)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-02/bitcoin-reaches-parity-gold

Bitcoin Reaches Parity With Gold

by Tyler Durden
Mar 2, 2017 10:02 AM

[...]

The volatility – or to be precise, the downside risk – makes it difficult for Bitcoin to be more widely adopted as money. What speaks for Bitcoin is that it has shown stellar performance over its short lifespan, but this stellar performance comes with considerable downside risk. A merchant accepting Bitcoin as payment is exposed to this downside risk unless he instantly exchanges Bitcoins back to currency following the transaction. Even though a cycle takes about 6 minutes in theory, exchanging Bitcoin to currency actually takes about one hour to confirm the transaction and another hour to confirm the price, during which at the very least the merchant is exposed to the downside volatility. Holding Bitcoins permanently might hold huge upside, but that also comes with intolerable downside risk for a merchant. After all, merchants should spend their time and energy with what they are best at (selling goods) rather than trading currencies and Bitcoin.

Another claim we don’t agree with is that Bitcoin is as free of counter-party risk as gold. What we have seen with Ethereum, another nascent cryptocurrency, is that these virtual currencies ultimately have a master key. With Ethereum, that key is controlled by a council that decides its future inflation rate; with Bitcoin, that key is controlled by Gavin Andresen, an engineer based in Massachusetts. There’s no guarantee that they won’t change the source code for the Bitcoin blockchain in the future, and when you “own” a Bitcoin you simply refer to the blockchain - a distributed ledger that tells you what and how much you own. In this regard, we don’t agree that Bitcoin does not have custodial or counter-party risk; the blockchain itself is the fat tail.

This means that for now, gold remains the only global currency in which individuals and corporations can transact with no time delay, with price volatility comparable to that of major currencies yet without counter-party risk, and one that has been proven as a store of value for thousands of years.

nolu chan  posted on  2017-06-02   17:52:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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