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Title: Physicists manage to 'breed' Schrodinger's cat in breakthrough that could help explain the quantum world
Source:
Daily Mail Online
URL Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet ... -s-cat-breakthrough-study.html
Published: May 2, 2017
Author: Cheyenne MacDonald
Post Date: 2017-05-02 07:39:35 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 24821
Comments: 75
Scientists have developed a way to 'breed' Schrodinger's hypothetical cat in a breakthrough experiment that could bridge the gap between the quantum and the visible - or classical - worlds. The cat in the famous thought experiment can be alive and dead at the same time, in a quantum phenomenon known as superposition. But, whether this effect translates to larger objects has long remained a mystery. Physicists have now created a way to amplify pairs of classical states of light to generate 'enlarged' cats, in effort to uncover the limit (if there is one) of the quantum world. 'One of the fundamental questions of physics is the boundary between the quantum and classical worlds,' says CIFAR Quantum Information Science Fellow Alexander Lvovsky. 'Can quantum phenomena, provided ideal conditions, be observed in macroscopic objects? 'Theory gives no answer to this question – maybe there is no such boundary. 'What we need is a tool that will probe it.' In the new experiment, the researchers 'bred' the physical analogue of the Schrodinger cat. This, in this case, is the superposition of two coherent light waves, in which the fields of the electromagnetic waves point in opposite directions at once. Based on an idea first proposed over a decade ago by researchers in Australia, the team bred these states to create optical 'cats' of higher amplitudes. 'In essence, we cause interference of two 'cats' on a beam splitter,' said Anastasia Pushkina, co-author and University of Calgary graduate student. 'This leads to an entangled state in the two output channels of that beam splitter. 'In one of these channels, a special detector is placed. 'In the event this detector shows a certain result, a 'cat' is born in the second output whose energy is more than twice that of the initial one.' Doing this, the researchers converted a pair of negative squeezed 'cats' of amplitude 1.15 to a single positive 'cat' of amplitude 1.85. Doing this, the researchers converted a pair of negative squeezed 'cats' of amplitude 1.15 to a single positive 'cat' of amplitude 1.85. Entangled particles are illustrated above Over the course of the experiment, they generated several thousand of these enlarged cats. According to the researchers the experiment has implications for future work in quantum communication, teleportation, and cryptography. 'It is important that the procedure can be repeated: new 'cats' can, in turn, be overlapped on a beam splitter, producing one with even higher energy, and so on,' says lead author Demid Sychev, a graduate student from the Russian Quantum Center and the Moscow State Pedagogical University. 'Thus, it is possible to push the boundaries of the quantum world step by step, and eventually to understand whether it has a limit.' Schrödinger's cat is a thought experiment created by Austrian physicist Erwin Schrödinger in 1935. In the hypothetical experiment a cat is placed in a sealed box next to a radioactive sample, a Geiger counter, and a bottle of poison. The observer cannot know whether or not an atom of the substance has decayed, and consequently, cannot know whether the vial has been broken, releasing the poison and killing the cat, until the box is opened. This means the cat is both dead and alive inside the box, a mixture of both states, until the box is opened. 'One of the fundamental questions of physics is the boundary between the quantum and classical worlds,' says CIFAR Quantum Information Science Fellow Alexander Lvovsky. 'Can quantum phenomena, provided ideal conditions, be observed in macroscopic objects? 'Theory gives no answer to this question – maybe there is no such boundary. 'What we need is a tool that will probe it.' In the new experiment, the researchers 'bred' the physical analogue of the Schrodinger cat. This, in this case, is the superposition of two coherent light waves, in which the fields of the electromagnetic waves point in opposite directions at once. Based on an idea first proposed over a decade ago by researchers in Australia, the team bred these states to create optical 'cats' of higher amplitudes.
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#15. To: misterwhite (#13)
(Edited)
It detected the collapse under certain very artificial conditions. And keep in mind that a probability wave is only a mathematical construct for us to measure and discuss the likelihood of an outcome. In reality, there is no such thing as a "probability wave" of any sort. It's just how we choose to conceptualize and discuss the concept (which may or may not be helpful to progress in physics). Ever asked yourself why there are no practical applications of such science, why we seem to make little progress of any kind in quantum physics? Or even the existence of dark matter and (especially) dark energy? 100 years from now, I think people will look at our misunderstandings of the outcome of double-slit and similar experiments as rather quaint, humorous even. Have you considered that a double-slit experiment is nothing more than a special case in physics and not some fundamental principle of the universe? Perhaps these double-slit experiments cannot achieve any meaningful progress in theoretical physics because we are engaging in double-slit experiments and observing (or not observing) the results! What quantum physics needs is a few more Feynmans to clear out the babble and clutter and make some meaningful progress.
No. We could stand right next to the tree and we wouldn't "hear" it. And if the person standing next to the tree was deaf? What then? As you must know, a person can sense a strong enough sound directly through air pressure on their skin. The sound of, for instance, an airplane crashing or a building being demolished with explosives can be felt directly thought the intense air pressure wave on the exposed skin. So if you only "feel" the very loud sound, is that considered to be the same as having "heard" it with your ears? Let's consider that the deaf person standing next to the tree had a dog who was frightened by the sound of the tree crashing to the ground and the dog ran away, forcing his master to chase him down. Are you saying that there was no sound and that therefore the dog ran for no reason and that his master chased him for no reason? Or would some third party have to see and hear all of it for it to have happened at all? These are bootless questions. I feel like I'm chatting with special ed students that people think these are questions that can be debated seriously.
When you can't understand something, simply create antimatter to explain it. They did that with black holes -- which nothing can escape, even light. Well, Hawking radiation can. What is Hawking radiation? Well, particles and antiparticles are created outside the event horizon. One particle falls into the black hole and the other escapes as Hawking radiation. Ta-da!
Write on a piece of paper and show it to him, "Did you hear that sound?" Then let him tell you the answer to that. If he can talk, that is. "So if you only "feel" the very loud sound, is that considered to be the same as having "heard" it with your ears?" You answered your own question by describing the sensation of the disturbance two different ways. "Are you saying that there was no sound and that therefore the dog ran for no reason" No. The dog heard a sound his master didn't.
As always, you should ask: WWFD (What Would Feynman Do)? (see RF at 09:00 for the discussion of the two slits experiment) Since I'm lazy and stupid, I'll just stick with Feynman. It's the safe bet. : ) It is worth recalling that Bohr almost drove himself insane trying and failing to resolve the contradictions of quantum physics. Feynman fixed those problems and revolutionized (virtually invented) modern quantum mechanics. Not Bohr or Einstein who both applied themselves to the same problems.
You forgot the other handy dodges: string theory and the multiverse. It drives me crazy when people invent these elaborate unfalsifiable theories and won't admit they just don't know.
The word for most of that activity before 1700 was "religion".
Maybe so. We, of course, can take comfort in the certainty that the answer to life, the universe and everything is...42.
It was a good presentation as far as it went. But if electrons (or photons) were fired one at a time, they would still create an interference pattern and he had no explanation for that.
I think he did. Wiki: Feynman, Richard P.; Robert B. Leighton; Matthew Sands (1965). The Feynman Lectures on Physics, Vol. 3. Obviously, Feynman did think about the double-slit experiment a great deal. But his greatness was how much he advanced the entire field through practical theoretical work, especially his diagrams. Feynman had a camper in the Seventies that he had painted with his diagrams, just for fun. He was a little quirky. While traveling with the family, they came out of a restaurant. A university physics student was blinking at the van as they came out and then said to them, "Hey, why is your van covered with Feynman diagrams?". Mrs. Feynman said, "Because we're the Feynman's." and they jumped in the van and drove off. In recent years, the van was brought out of storage and restored.
His presentation showed that photons and electrons behaved like waves until they were tampered with by observation. Then they acted like particles. But there are experiments that negate these effects, demonstrating that observation alone collapses the probability wave.
I always thought that there is no probability collapse at all. There are particles that can behave as waves in some circumstances. Or maybe waves that can behave as particles. : ) Of course, this is the sort of thing that makes frustrated science guys try to cheat by inventing stuff like wavicles.
Not in the same experiment.
I think, you still live in Newtonian universe. And that for you everything is obvious and there is no mystery. But even Newton said "to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me"
It's by far the better bet. It yields by far the most meaningful increases in human knowledge. Quantum mechanics may eventually provide some more complete view of the natural universe but we are nowhere near it. We probably know far less of any value than of anything meaningful about this realm of theory. The present state of understanding quantum physics is comparable to the state of alchemy as a science several centuries back. Quantum physics needs some truly revolutionary advances to compare to the contributions of Newton and Einstein. It's the simple truth. Just look at all the "thought experiments" upon which so much of quantum physics relies as its conceptual framework. Undead cats? Endless unproveable debates about string theory? A multiverse? Give me a ping when any of that leads to a meaningful advance. Complain about Newton and Einstein if you like but almost everything we know of science comes from them. And we can prove their work. You can't say any of that for the present state of quantum physics (which is already nearly a century old).
Yes, and the answer I have come up with is that there are not really four fundamental forces, there is only one: the expansion of things, expressed in two spaces: atomic and subatomic. Gravity as such - force at a distance - does not exist. There is the surface acceleration of expanding objects (this is why gravity cuts off at the edge of the atmosphere, when there is nothing more to act as a piston pushing up on the bottom of the fuselage of things. There are ways to test this, and there are real physical effects of this that can be seen in the world, but it's very subtle. Einstein was essentially correct when he observed that, to a man in a box, acceleration upwards and gravity feel like the same thing. That's because they ARE the same thing. Things that orbit each other are really moving in tandem in a corkscrew through space, and the orbital distance is the distance at which their expansion towards each other is cancelled out by their velocity. It's difficult to see, because whatever you use to measure with ALSO expands, and mass remains constant. Anyway, I don't feel like an argument.
The fundamental problem with all such experiments is the ability to count the number 1.
I think Einstein had largely that same view of space-time and how gravity wells work. However, Einstein and other physicists would undoubtedly insist that gravitational attraction certainly operates meaningfully across the solar system. I can't imagine anyone positing that the earth lacks gravitational pull on the moon. I know you're into it because you express these ideas pretty consistently but I've never seen any major physicist proposing those ideas. Perhaps they have done so but I'm too dull to grasp it. But I think I have read a decent amount about the various theoretical constructs so I should have heard of it by now. I would say, offhand, that we shouldn't be any more impressed with an expanding universe than we would be with a static one. And we can't be sure that the universe is actually expanding any more than we can know if the universe is infinite in scale. Perhaps we are too low on the mental food chain to grasp the fundamental nature of the universe. That has been my thinking for a long time. Still, we've discovered some incredible things, considering what limited beings we really are.
The earth exerts no gravitational pull on the moon, or vice versa. There is no gravity at a distance. only the surface effect. Gravity does not exist. Perhaps in our lifetime people whom you respect will reveal this. Until then, tuck it into your "absolutely nuts" file.
Gravity does drop off sharply but still exists even at great distances. You break a lot of physics if you try to pretend it doesn't. Are you going to just revoke all the accepted and proven work on the three-body problem? As you know, Kepler formulated the basics in his work 400 years ago and Newton used Kepler's discoveries in his own theory of gravity. Hence the classic representation of gravity wells in space-time, like a planet. You actually have to have working solutions that provide correct answers to these thorny problems if you intend to discard the entire basis of classical and modern physics. You can't wave a wand and make them disappear. You have to have something better. Is it okay if I tell people I knew you "when"? LOL
Isn't this like it's not news unless CNN and Hufpo report it?
Only to people who think Newton and Einstein were ignorant. : ) Who knew you could get this many replies on a physics thread at LF? LOL
We don't know if so called "gravity" does exist. What we know is that concept of gravity helps up to organize and visualize some data or stuff. We know nothing. BTW, I studied continental philosophy at MA level, beside natural science at MS level. In addition I did a lot of my own thinking what is more important. "His reputation as a philosopher, literally meaning 'a lover of wisdom', soon spread all over Athens and beyond. When told that the Oracle of Delphi had revealed to one of his friends that Socrates was the wisest man in Athens, he responded not by boasting or celebrating, but by trying to prove the Oracle wrong. So Socrates decided he would try and find out if anyone knew what was truly worthwhile in life, because anyone who knew that would surely be wiser than him. He set about questioning everyone he could find, but no one could give him a satisfactory answer. Instead they all pretended to know something they clearly did not. Finally he realized the Oracle might be right after all. He was the wisest man in Athens because he alone was prepared to admit his own ignorance rather than pretend to know something he did not. "
We know we can solve a great many practical problems in astronomy and space flight using this awful "gravity" idea. It underpins so much of physics that I can't begin to list its uses in theoretical constructs vital to the entire field. I'd like to see you name some top-rank physicists in the last 300 years who don't believe in this #FakeGravity thing.
This is what I mean. Nothing more nothing less. Do you really need to lean on an authority? OK, one example: "University of Amsterdam string theorist Erik Verlinde provided a totally new perspective for understanding the effect that has been called gravity. He is convinced that it is not an independent force at all." https://www.icr.org/article/5548/ Or read Kant's Critique of Pure Reason. Personally I am partial to the Arthur Schopenhauer answer to Kant. Or at least 'As if' approach of Hans Vaihinger.
No string theorist has ever produced a single piece of new theoretical work that is widely accepted or that has an experimental demonstration of its merit. However, practical applications of gravity have yielded countless theoretical advances (starting with Newton and Einstein and all the physics stars) and has had its merits demonstrated in experiments and real-world applications like space flight. OTOH, you can find a string theory flake who will say anything. Apparently, you have. You may as well tell me that you found someone on Infowars or a UFO site that doesn't believe in that darned #FakeGravity. This discussion is so stupid that I can feel it killing my brain cells just to have to type this.
BTW, Verlinde is not a gravity skeptic. He does offer a theory called entropic gravity. But he is still a believer in that whole #FakeGravity thing you claim is wrong. "At its simplest, the theory holds that when gravity becomes vanishingly weak—levels seen only at interstellar distances—it diverges from its classically understood nature and its strength begins to decay linearly with distance from a mass." I would agree with this and have always considered gravity in this way. You can look back on this thread a ways and find my post about gravity becoming infinitesimal at intersteallar distances (but not within a solar system). He hasn't proved his theory of gravity but it seems likely an improvement on classical ideas about gravity which do still have problems. It seems that Verlinde's ideas about gravity allow for all the phenomena we already observe but force gravity to behave according to the laws of thermodynamics more thoroughly than classical Newtonian ideas about gravity. Verlinde does believe in that #FakeGravity, at least his own version of it.
I don't believe in gravity as an independent force. It is the effect of acceleration, and it is experienced on physical objects. There is no gravity reaching across space.
Isaac Newton: "It is inconceivable that inanimate brute matter should, without the mediation of something else which is not material, operate upon and affect other matter without mutual contact, as it must be, if gravitation in the sense of Epicurus, be essential and inherent in it. And this is one reason why I desired you would not ascribe innate gravity to me. That gravity should be innate, inherent, and essential to matter, so that one body may act upon another at a distance through a vacuum, without the mediation of anything else, by and through which their action and force may be conveyed from one to another, is to me so great an absurdity that I believe no man who has in philosophical matters a competent faculty of thinking can ever fall into it. Gravity must be caused by an agent acting constantly according to certain laws; but whether this agent be material or immaterial, I have left open to the consideration of my readers."
Well, maybe Newton was right. Then again, magnetism is conveyed through space without the movement of particles. I myself think that it is the expansion of matter in space that causes the effects we call gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear forces. One phenomenon, expansion, accounts for all of these four "fundamental" forces. I do not think, as Newton appears to have, that gravity must be carried by "gravitons" or any similar particle. But who cares what I think. Time may tell.
Science historians do not believe an apple ever fell on Newton's head. It's a myth, like George Washington and the cherry tree.
That is why there is no apple on the picture.
Or George Washington refusing the Crown. Or America almost being a German-speaking country, by a few votes difference. Or Texas having a right to secede. Or FDR planning Pearl Harbor. Or the Confederacy being on the verge of abolishing slavery. People believe what they want to believe.
I think there is one aspect of gravity that is not understood, and that is the speed at which one body affects another body. It's significant because as bodies move around each other at great distances, if the effect traveled at the speed of light, it would be too slow to account for normal orbital observations. I.e. the sun is 8 light minutes away from the earth, and is moving through space. If the earth orbited around where the sun was 8 minutes ago instead of where it is at the same moment of time, we wouldn't be having this conversation because life wouldn't exist on earth. If gravitons exist, they travel instantly, far faster than light. So I think it's apparent that gravitons, as particles, don't exist. I think it obvious that space is not "nothing", but is rather a fabric of sorts. Ergo, there is no such things as a true vacuum within our universe. Space is a conduit of mass just as a pipe is a conduit of fluids.
It's obvious to you that space is a "fabric", that isn't composed of anything. It's obvious to me that there is no fabric of space. That space is literal non-existence. The no- existence of matter in a place makes that place space. (Space is, of course, full of energy particles, so it is not empty. I guess a fuller definition of space would be the complete void between energy particles, since they also take up space.) The earth and Sun spiral forward about them for the same reason that everything else does - they were originally cast that way, and there is nothing to prevent them from doing so. They are both in forward motion corkscrewing through space at a sufficient velocity that they neither expand into each other (and crash) or spiral apart (which would happen if the velocities of either were different. But this is all about a subject that isn't important in any practical sense, so I think I'll let it go for now.
That I did not say. Space is composed of something, but not matter. I would be content calling this fabric of whatever sort it is "space", and I would hold that space is the conduit of gravity in addition to matter, so there is something there, even if that something is not matter. Einstein said gravity warps this space, and it seems intuitive that anything that can be warped must consist of *something*. I find that observation of Einstein reasonable. Consider a thought experiment of two weights held together by a spring. If the contraption is not spinning, the spring would be fully contracted, but if it was spinning in space, the spring would be stretched. Now consider that this contraption was the only object in the universe, in which case it would not be possible to measure any spin because there would be no other objects in the universe by which to measure the speed of spin. In such a case, would it be possible for the spring to be stretched indicating centrifugal force, or not possible? If it is possible for these weights to be wanting to fly away from one another, then it seems clear that the space in which it exists must consist of some type of fabric by which the objects spin can, in fact, be measured, independent of any other objects in space. I see this as philosophical proof that space *must* be a fabric/conduit of whatever sort. I'm late to the party I guess, but fair enough.
No, this is interesting. To start, sure there is something in space: it's full of energy particles. Stick a photographic negative out there, and it will rapidly bleach. Space is chock full of energy particles. It's only a vacuum with regards to particles of matter. In truth, "space" is a vast sea of energy particles, a plasma of low density. Rigorously speaking, though, space itself is really the complete void between those energy particles, and it exists with objects (inside of the molecules and atoms) as well as outside the atmosphere. Does that have a "fabric"? When speaking of pure space as black void, then no, it can't, because there's nothing there to make a fabric. But if one speaks of the attenuated energy plasma that fills space, then sure, THAT has a structure to it, however chaotic.
No, I suspect you don't catch my meaning. You seem to be of the impression that the "fabric" of space I refer to would be an active substance that would be mixed with energy and matter to fill a void, perhaps an analogy of a perfectly clean cloth and a dirty cloth. The dirty cloth representing space with mass and energy, and the clean cloth being space with zero energy and zero mass. But that analogy fails because the cloth itself is competing with the other materials for the space it occupies. Under this analogy, each point consists of either the cloth or the substance on the cloth. But no, what I'm saying is that space is the conduit of mass and energy. The analogy is more like a copper wire, through which electrical energy of a huge spectrum of strength and frequency may pass, or nothing at all. The copper is what allows the energy to exist and flow, and it in no way competes with the electrical current, and it still exists even though there may be no current flowing at all. In the same way, I see the fabric of space being the conduit for both matter and energy to exist and flow, and it exists even in a section of space that we might consider complete void, even if it had no radiation or mass within it. This fabric is "stretched", though in a 3D manner, by the effect of mass, and we call that effect gravity. Where there is no "fabric" no matter or energy can exist, just as where there is no copper wire, no electricity can flow. In this context, my thought experiment of the two weights and a spring can have the spring stretched to a great degree or not stretched at all in an otherwise empty universe depending on the rate of spin, because the amount of spin is relative to the fabric of the space in which it exists. There does not need to be a full universe full of matter around it for the rate of spin to be compared. As you perceive things, it seems to me that if there was no fabric of space, that it would be impossible for these two weights to be spinning around each other in an otherwise empty universe, because there would be nothing to compare the rate of spin to. Nothing at all.
If it were, the passing through space would not take any time.
I would agree. Distance itself would not exist.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest In the double-slit experiment, setting up a detector with a recorder at the slits forced the collapse of the probability wave and there was no interference.
In this Feynman diagram, an electron and a positron annihilate, producing a photon (represented by the blue sine wave) that becomes a quark–antiquark pair, after which the antiquark radiates a gluon (represented by the green helix).
#16. To: misterwhite (#14)
We can hear on the range of 20 to 20,000 Hz. If the tree fell and created an air disturbance of 50 kHz, would it make a sound? 50 MHz?
#17. To: Tooconservative (#15)
"What quantum physics needs is a few more Feynmans to clear out the babble ..."
#18. To: Tooconservative (#16)
"And if the person standing next to the tree was deaf?"
#19. To: misterwhite (#13)
(Edited)
In the double-slit experiment,...
#20. To: misterwhite (#17)
When you can't understand something, simply create antimatter to explain it.
#21. To: Tooconservative (#20)
It drives me crazy when people invent these elaborate unfalsifiable theories and won't admit they just don't know.
#22. To: Vicomte13 (#21)
#23. To: Tooconservative (#19)
#24. To: misterwhite (#23)
It was a good presentation as far as it went. But if electrons (or photons) were fired one at a time, they would still create an interference pattern and he had no explanation for that.
The double-slit experiment (and its variations) has become a classic thought experiment, for its clarity in expressing the central puzzles of quantum mechanics. Because it demonstrates the fundamental limitation of the ability of the observer to predict experimental results, Richard Feynman called it "a phenomenon which is impossible […] to explain in any classical way, and which has in it the heart of quantum mechanics. In reality, it contains the only mystery [of quantum mechanics]." 
#25. To: Tooconservative (#24)
"Because it demonstrates the fundamental limitation of the ability of the observer to predict experimental results"
#26. To: misterwhite (#25)
But there are experiments that negate these effects, demonstrating that observation alone collapses the probability wave.
#27. To: Tooconservative (#26)
"There are particles that can behave as waves in some circumstances. Or maybe waves that can behave as particles."
#28. To: Tooconservative (#26)
#29. To: A Pole (#28)
I think, you still live in Newtonian universe.
#30. To: Tooconservative (#15)
Ever asked yourself why there are no practical applications of such science, why we seem to make little progress of any kind in quantum physics? Or even the existence of dark matter and (especially) dark energy?
#31. To: Tooconservative (#24)
#32. To: Vicomte13 (#30)
(Edited)
Gravity as such - force at a distance - does not exist.
Things that orbit each other are really moving in tandem in a corkscrew through space, and the orbital distance is the distance at which their expansion towards each other is cancelled out by their velocity.
#33. To: Tooconservative (#32)
I can't imagine anyone positing that the earth lacks gravitational pull on the moon.
#34. To: Vicomte13 (#33)
There is no gravity at a distance. only the surface effect. Gravity does not exist.
Perhaps in our lifetime people whom you respect will reveal this. Until then, tuck it into your "absolutely nuts" file.
#35. To: Tooconservative (#11)
If you do listen to that recording by Caruso, then can Caruso finally be considered to have sung Ave Maria only now, a century later? Or can you rely on rumors and opinions held by others that Caruso did indeed sing Ave Maria? Or did Caruso finally exist for you when you finally heard him sing that song (because God kept all His electrons in line)?
#36. To: redleghunter (#35)
(Edited)
Isn't this like it's not news unless CNN and Hufpo report it?
#37. To: Tooconservative (#34)
Gravity does drop off sharply but still exists even at great distances.
#38. To: A Pole (#37)
We don't know if so called "gravity" does exist. What we know is that concept of gravity helps up to organize and visualize some data or stuff. We know nothing.
#39. To: Tooconservative (#38)
We know we can solve a great many practical problems in astronomy and space flight using this awful "gravity" idea.
I'd like to see you name some top-rank physicists in the last 300 years who don't believe in this #FakeGravity thing.
#40. To: A Pole, redleghunter (#39)
"University of Amsterdam string theorist Erik Verlinde provided a totally new perspective for understanding the effect that has been called gravity. He is convinced that it is not an independent force at all."
#41. To: A Pole (#39)
"University of Amsterdam string theorist Erik Verlinde provided a totally new perspective for understanding the effect that has been called gravity. He is convinced that it is not an independent force at all."
#42. To: Tooconservative (#40)
#43. To: Vicomte13 (#42)
I don't believe in gravity as an independent force.
#44. To: A Pole (#43)
#45. To: Vicomte13 (#44)
#46. To: A Pole (#45)
#47. To: Tooconservative (#46)
Science historians do not believe an apple ever fell on Newton's head.
#48. To: Tooconservative (#46)
#49. To: Vicomte13 (#44)
I do not think, as Newton appears to have, that gravity must be carried by "gravitons"
#50. To: Pinguinite (#49)
#51. To: Vicomte13 (#50)
It's obvious to you that space is a "fabric", that isn't composed of anything.
But this is all about a subject that isn't important in any practical sense, so I think I'll let it go for now.
#52. To: Pinguinite (#51)
I'm late to the party I guess, but fair enough.
#53. To: Vicomte13 (#52)
Does that have a "fabric"? When speaking of pure space as black void, then no, it can't, because there's nothing there to make a fabric. But if one speaks of the attenuated energy plasma that fills space, then sure, THAT has a structure to it, however chaotic.
#54. To: Vicomte13 (#50)
It's obvious to me that there is no fabric of space. That space is literal non-existence.
#55. To: A Pole (#54)
If it were, the passing through space would not take any time.
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