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Title: Slain SEALÂ’s dad wants answers: 'Don't hide behind my sonÂ’s death'
Source:
MiamiHerald
URL Source: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/pol ... vernment/article135064074.html
Published: Mar 2, 2017
Author: Julie K. Brown
Post Date: 2017-03-02 01:08:50 by Hondo68
Keywords: not in Situation Room, President Trump signed, cover had been blown
Views: 12938
Comments: 56
When they brought William “Ryan” Owens home, the Navy SEAL was carried from a C-17 military plane in a flag-draped casket, onto the tarmac at Dover Air Force Base, as President Donald Trump, his daughter, Ivanka, and Owens’ family paid their respects. It was a private transfer, as the family had requested. No media and no bystanders, except for some military dignitaries. READ MORE: Trump may support probe of SEAL’s death, White House says Owens’ father, Bill, had learned only a short time before the ceremony that Trump was coming. Owens was sitting with his wife, Marie, and other family members in the solemn, living room-like space where the loved ones of the fallen assemble before they are taken to the flight line. “I’m sorry, I don’t want to see him,’’ Owens recalled telling the chaplain who informed him that Trump was on his way from Washington. “I told them I don’t want to meet the President.” It had been little more than 24 hours since six officers in dress uniform knocked on the door to Owens’ home in Lauderdale-by-the-Sea. It was not yet daylight when he answered the door, already knowing in the pit of his stomach what they had come to tell him. Now, Owens cringed at the thought of having to shake the hand of the president who approved the raid in Yemen that claimed his son’s life — an operation that he and others are now calling into question. “I told them I didn’t want to make a scene about it, but my conscience wouldn’t let me talk to him,” Owens said Friday, speaking out for the first time in an interview with the Miami Herald. Owens, also a military veteran, was troubled by Trump’s harsh treatment of a Gold Star family during his presidential campaign. Now Owens was a Gold Star parent, and he said he had deep reservations about the way the decision was made to launch what would be his son’s last mission. Ryan and as many as 29 civilians were killed Jan. 28 in the anti-terrorism mission in Yemen. What was intended as a lightning raid to grab cellphones, laptops and other information about terrorists turned into a nearly hour-long firefight in which “everything went wrong,” according to U.S. military officials who spoke to the New York Times. Bill Owens said he was assured that his son, who was shot, was killed early in the fight. It was the first military counter-terrorist operation approved by the new president, who signed the go-ahead Jan. 26 — six days into his term. “Why at this time did there have to be this stupid mission when it wasn’t even barely a week into his administration? Why? For two years prior, there were no boots on the ground in Yemen — everything was missiles and drones — because there was not a target worth one American life. Now, all of a sudden we had to make this grand display?’’ In a statement from the White House Saturday, spokesman Michael C. Short called Ryan Owens “an American hero who made the ultimate sacrifice in the service of his country.” The White House did not address his father’s criticisms, but pointed out that the Department of Defense routinely conducts a review of missions that result in loss of life. Bill Owens and his wife sat in another room as the President paid his respects to other family members. He declined to say what family members were at the ceremony. Trump administration officials have called the mission a success, saying they had seized important intelligence information. They have also criticized detractors of the raid, saying those who question its success dishonor Ryan Owens’ memory. His father, however, believes just the opposite. “Don’t hide behind my son’s death to prevent an investigation,” said the elder Owens, pointing to Trump’s sharp words directed at the mission’s critics, including Sen. John McCain. “I want an investigation. … The government owes my son an investigation,” he said. A family photo of William ‘Ryan’ Owens, who was killed in Yemen on Jan. 28, 2017. Owens was the first known U.S. combat casualty under President Trump. Courtesy of the Owens family Next week, Ryan Owens would have turned 37. At the time of his death, he had already spent half his life in the Navy, much of that with the elite SEAL Team 6 — chasing terrorist leaders across deserts and mountains around the world. The team, formally known as DEVGRU,had taken part in some of the most high-profile operations in military history, including the killing of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden. At the time of the 2001 9/11 attacks, Owens was in SEAL training, arguably the most physically grueling and mentally grinding regimens in the military. The team, tasked with tracking terrorists and mythologized in books and movies, had once been dubbed a “global manhunting machine” by the Times. Despite the lore surrounding the SEALS’ exploits, almost everything about them is kept secret, even their names. Bill Owens knows very little about the actions that his son participated in, but takes pride in the dozens of awards he earned during his 12 deployments. Among them: the Silver Star, Navy and Marine Corps Medal, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart. Emily MichotMiami Herald Staff Ryan served under three U.S. presidents, and met former President Barack Obama, his father said. At his home on Friday, Bill Owens pulled out piles of photographs: Ryan as a toddler, clad in a brown military jumpsuit on his father’s lap; Ryan with his two older brothers playing army as kids; Ryan’s wedding picture; Ryan with his children and Ryan clad in military gear with a handful of his SEAL teammates. There’s one of Ryan sitting on the floor in the White House playing with Obama’s dogs. Ryan joined the Navy after high school, following in his brothers’ footsteps. His brother, John, 42, was also a SEAL, and his oldest brother, Michael, 44, a Hollywood police officer, was also in the Navy for a time. They in turn were inspired by their father: Bill Owens served four years in the Navy, then joined the Army Reserves in Arlington Heights, Illinois. Ryan was born in downstate Peoria. While in the Reserves, Bill worked for Caterpillar tractor company, until he was laid off during the recession in the 1980s. Shortly thereafter, he saw a notice in a military magazine for new recruits for the Fort Lauderdale Police Department, and he successfully applied. Owens and his then-wife, Ryan’s mother Patricia, moved with Ryan to South Florida. His elder sons remained with Owens’ first wife in Illinois. Despite the distance between them, the half-brothers were very close, Owens said. They played sports and spent many summers and holidays together. Ryan and his brothers became interested in the military at a very young age. And Ryan dreamed of becoming a SEAL. “He was always happy,” Bill Owens said of Ryan. “Every picture you see he has a smile on his face. He just had a real positive attitude.” He was also driven. Ryan was so determined “to be the best” his father said, that when he failed the dive phase of SEAL training, he went out and hired a private instructor to get more training on his off time, and was initially certified as a civilian. “He went out on his own and became more proficient. That’s the kind of dedication and determination that he had,” his father said. Bill Owens’ marriage to Ryan’s mother ended soon after they moved to South Florida, and Patricia, who also became a Fort Lauderdale police officer, eventually moved with Ryan and her new husband back to Peoria. She died in 2013. Ryan spent summers and holidays with his father and brothers in Fort Lauderdale and played catcher during the school year for the Illinois Valley Central High School baseball team, the Grey Ghosts. Ryan dreamed of serving in the military from a very early age, his father says. In this family photo, he is playing soldier with his older brothers. Courtesy of the Owens family Standing 6-4, and weighing about 225 pounds, Ryan loved the physical part of the job and serving his country, even though it took him away from his family much of the year. “I always kept hoping that we would eventually make up for lost time, but that’s not going to happen,” his father said. Ryan’s military career wasn’t always filled with the adrenaline of hostage rescue missions and midnight raids. In between, there were endless hours of training and planning. There was also the heartache of losing his military brothers. Ryan was tasked in 2011 with escorting the bodies of 17 of his fellow SEALS home following a CH-47 helicopter crash in Afghanistan, his father said. “He came back from Afghanistan and had to go to their funerals. It’s unnerving to go through something like that. It was one of the worst days in SEAL history as far as casualties go. He didn’t talk about it,” his father said. “A lot of them, they don’t talk about it, even with their parents.” Owens and his SEAL commandos set out in the dark of night. Planning for the Yemen raid began last year during the Obama administration, but the execution was tabled because it was decided it would be better to launch the operation on a moonless night, which wouldn’t occur until after President Trump took office Jan. 20. According to a timeline provided by the White House, then-National Security Advisor Michael Flynn briefed the president about the operation Jan. 25 over a dinner that included Vice President Mike Pence, Chief Strategist Steve Bannon, Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner and top security aides. It was not held in the Situation Room, as had been a practice under previous administrations. President Trump signed the memo authorizing the action the next day, Jan. 26. Courtesy of the Owens family “This was a very, very well thought-out and executed effort,” White House spokesman Sean Spicer said Feb. 2 as questions first arose about the mission. He stressed that it had been thoroughly vetted and planned on Obama’s watch. Colin Kahl, a national security adviser to former Vice President Joe Biden, however, tweeted his contention that Spicer was mistaken. “Obama made no decisions on this before leaving office, believing it represented escalation of U.S. involvement in Yemen,” he wrote on Twitter. At the time of the firefight, Trump was not in the Situation Room, where he would have been directly involved in monitoring developments. Spicer said he kept in touch with his national security staffers, who were directly plugged in. White House officials also pointed out that, in general, counter-terrorism operations are routine and presidents are not in the Situation Room for every mission. U.S. forces, targeting a suspected al-Qaida compound, immediately faced armed militants, a sign that their cover had been blown. The Washington Post reported that militants, some of them women, fired from the rooftops. Three other commandos were injured when an MV-22 Osprey, sent in to evacuate the troops, crash-landed. It was later destroyed by a U.S. airstrike to prevent it from falling into militant hands. Some reports have said as many as 23 civilians, including an 8-year-old girl, were killed. Afterward, McCain characterized the mission as a failure, and Trump responded with a series of tweets defending the Yemen action, and criticizing McCain. The rancor further escalated when Spicer later stated that McCain — or anyone — who “undermines the success of that raid owes an apology and a disservice to life of Chief Owens.” There is no SEAL mission that is without risk, said Don Mann, a 21-year veteran Navy SEAL, now retired. Mann, the author of “Inside SEAL Team Six: My Life and Missions with America’s Elite Warriors,” said that if the assault team knew ahead of time that it had been compromised, the SEAL commanders on the ground had the ability to abort the raid at any time. Some reports said that they did know, and went forward anyway. “The SEALS, unlike other forces, make their decision on the ground and that decision — in this case — cost a life, which is very very tragic, but that’s war,” Mann said. “These people are good human beings. It weighs heavily on them. Seeing one person die, especially a teammate or friend, is beyond comprehension.” He said it’s natural that Owens’ loved ones would have questions about what happened, but they shouldn’t be swayed by the politics surrounding the tragedy. “Nobody knows the truth of what happened except the person on the ground. When politicians get it, they warp it far from the truth,” he said. There were so many SEALS at Ryan’s service at Arlington National Cemetery that his father’s arm got tired from shaking so many muscled hands. At the end, before his coffin was lowered, each of the SEALS removed their badges from their uniforms and pounded them one by one into the casket. When it over, the casket was covered in gold eagle tridents. Bill Owens doesn’t want to talk about Ryan’s wife or his three young children. There are other things that he believes should remain private. He spoke out, he says, at the risk of offending some of his family and friends. “I’d like some answers about all the things that happened in the timeline that led up to it. I know what the timeline is, and it bothers me a lot,” said Owens, who acknowledges he didn’t vote for Donald Trump. One aspect of the chain of events that nags at him is the fact that the president signed the order suspending the entry of immigrants from seven Muslim-majority countries, including Yemen, on Jan. 27 — the day before the mission. Owens wonders whether that affected friendly forces in Yemen who were assisting with the raid. “It just doesn’t make any sense to do something to antagonize an ally when you’re going to conduct a mission in that country,” he said. “Did we alienate some of the people working with them, translators or support people. Maybe they decided to release information to jeopardize the mission.” These are only some of the many questions that Owens believes should be thoroughly examined, including the possibility that the decision to move forward with the mission was motivated by politics. “I think these are valid questions. I don’t want anybody to think I have an agenda, because I don’t. I just want the truth.” McClatchy reporters Vera Bergengruen and Anita Kumar contributed from Washington. A life of service Senior Chief Special Warfare Operator William “Ryan” Owens, 36, of Peoria, Illinois, died Jan. 29, 2017, in Yemen. ▪ Assigned to Team Seal 6. ▪ Enlisted in U.S. Navy in August 1998 and graduated in September 2002. ▪ 12 Deployments. Awards include the Silver Star, Navy and Marine Corps Medal, three Bronze Star Medals of Valor; Purple Heart, Defense Meritorious Service Medal; Two Joint Service Commendation Medals with Valor; Navy and three Marine Corps Achievement Medals. ▪ Married, with three children. Poster Comment:
Among the elite
A SEAL’s heartache
Doomed mission
Powerful hands
“I think these are valid questions. I don’t want anybody to think I have an agenda, because I don’t. I just want the truth.”
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#17. To: Tooconservative, *Arab Spring Jihad* (#14)
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They're soldiers they don't set policy, they follow orders. The blame lies with the Commander in Chief, President Trump. The buck stops in the Oval Office. The same might be said in domestic policing where bystanders would accuse cops of behaving like terrorists. That does not make it true.
That sounds exactly like something Obama would say….and the policy he followed. Wait…IT WAS.
TC.... children were killed that would otherwise still be alive today if this operation hadn't happened. To accept their deaths as unavoidable collateral damage that was necessary for the greater good plants seeds of gross immorality. I'm sure some ISIS militants see things the exact same way as you seem to. The killing of innocents is just part of what's necessary to bring about the greater good. The only difference in one's perception of "the greater good". Pray tell, what is the difference between the end result of ISIS and US SEALS, beyond the cause for which they kill innocent people?
HorseHillary! He went on what amounts to a defensive mission against people who had attacked us in the past,and who represent a current danger. that meant nothing to Main Street America. That part is true,but it is meaningless because he did it for America,not applause. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Nor should he have been. There is a set of VERY specific knowledge and experience required to plan and carry out these operations,and amateur advise is neither sought or accepted. Given what I know about the Navy,chances are the only acceptable answer there is "Aye,Aye,Sir!6 bags full,Sir!" In Army special operations if they tried to float some crap past us that unnecessarily added risk to both us and the successful outcome of the operation,we would tell them to blow it out their asses because we weren't going. YOU want to plan the op,YOU can run the damn op! What kind of fool are you that you hire pros to do a job,and then you want to tell them how to do it? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Nor is the wife or anyone else. All she knows is her husband and his team are in isolation for a unspecified length of time,it may just be a training mission,and no one knows where they are going or what they will do once them get there. EVERYTHING is strictly "need to know". I don't know how it is in the anal Navy,but in the army it is the team that makes all the plans after being told where they are going and what the goal of the mission is. Before the launch date they give a briefing to the overall commander and his staff while still in isolation so the commander knows what is going on and what to expect. The commander has the authority to scrub the mission if he doesn't approve the mission plan,and he has the authority to replace the team with another team if he wants. What he doesn't have is the authority to tell the team how to do it. He,or anyone else in the room can make suggestions and is free to do so,but they don't give orders. Only the team leader decides how it is going to be done and what is needed to do it. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Regardless of if they did or not,they will deny capturing anything. These are VERY bright people,not fools. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
HorseHillary! Yeah,they could have examined it,but they would have had no idea what it was they were examining because they had no experience or background doing this sort of thing. This really is pretty specialized "work" and it really does require the sharpest operators each branch of the service can come up with. Stupid people or people that can't think on their feet don't make it to graduation because in the real world of operations they won't live long enough to make it worthwhile to try to train them,and they put their teammates at risk. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
And of course you believe the raghead reports because they have such a well-deserved reputation of making sure their women and children are safe,right? Seen that "Last man standing" movie about the SEAL team that when into one of the Shitstainistans to take out a terrorist leader,and everybody on the team was killed but the team leader because they team leader lacked the balls necessary to either kill or tie up and sedate two young teen goatherders that walked right up on them in hiding? That whole damn team was killed because the team leader had a mindset similar to yours. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
There WERE no innocent people killed,you bleeping idiot! They were guerillas in a guerilla-controlled area,so they were all combatants. It was the two 13 or so year old boys that the idiot SEAL team leader turned loose because he didn't have the stones to kill them or tie them up and sedate them. He turned them loose,and they ran right back home and raised the villagers to pick up their AK's and RPG's and come after the SEAL Team. As a result,the SEAL team not only failed to accomplish their mission of taking out a terrorist leader,they were also all killed by the villages,with the exception of the idiot team leader. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
EVERYBODY in and around a village controlled by insurgents is a civilian because they are guerillas and don't wear uniforms and are not a part of a regular army. including the women and children who help carry ammo and load and fire guns. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
You have absolutely no experience or knowledge of combat operations,do you? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Cry me a bleeping river. IF there were any children killed,they were killed because their parents were insurgent fighters who had their children living with them. Sometimes these people actually push women and children out in front of them to use as human sandbags for cover because they know that Americans are reluctant to shoot at women and children. I guess if you were there you would choose to have your whole team as well as yourself die because you were afraid of harming the wives and children of the goat rapists hiding behind them and shooting at you? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
These terrorists have a demonstrated pattern of hiding behind civilians. We see if over and over. Our SEALs don't hide behind women and children. And in Yemen, it was AQAP, not ISIS. You might more readily criticize 0bama and Trump for being too willing to do the Saudis' bidding to keep the royal family secure. Nevertheless we do use our SEAL teams against a variety of enemies in addition to ISIS.
Multiple sources in the administration have stated they got terrabytes of info on multiple external hard drives.
DailyWire: On Thursday, CNN reported that the US “is now taking action to locate and monitor hundreds of people or ‘contacts’ found as part the intelligence retrieved during the deadly raid last month in Yemen targeting al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.” According to CNN, defense officials have confirmed that “information pertaining to the location of safe havens, explosives manufacturing, training and targets was acquired in the January ground operation." Not a direct threat to us, not members of ISIS. In the future, maybe the Saudis should do their own wet work.
Okay, Sneaky, I want to slowly take your hand off mouse, and the keyboard, and then stand up and step baaaaaaaaaack from the PC. Very, very slowly. Real gentle like! Then take a deeeeeep breath, turn to a window and look at something pleasant faaaaaaar away.
For the first time ever. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Apparently, there are two teams of competing leakers on the supposed value of the Yemen hard drives seized in the raid. The ones leaking to NBC say it was worthless. The ones leaking to DailyWire and CNN say it had huge intel value. Who to believe out of all these scumbag leakers? HotAir: U.S. working to identify hundreds of Al Qaeda contacts discovered from material seized in Yemen raid One thing is for certain: highly-placed individuals are leaking and they are lying. There can be no doubt. One group or the other is lying to try to destroy Trump's efforts and his appointees. A lot of people need to be fired. This leaking is going to render the WH incapable of doing anything classified. At this point, we don't know what we don't know but we do know there is a lot of lying going on, much of it just anti-Trump subversion by former 0bama operatives who still haven't been replaced.
Well, Sneaky, good point. I wasn't there. But the implication of what you say is that I should start believing more credible news sources, like perhaps CNN. If it's true no innocent people were killed, that's great. And a further implication is that the US Military has never killed any innocent people anywhere in it's ongoing undeclared war against people deemed a threat, even though through 8 years of the Obama administration, a US bomb was dropped against human targets ever 20 minutes. Obviously, that is not a credible suggestion. Well, then, the thing to do is just nuke these entire regions. They are all ragheads, they are all enemies of the United States, and they all have ICBMs and control nukes currently in orbit. Kill, kill, kill. It's what America stands for. Thank you sneaky, for implying that I am actually the one guilty of killing innocent people. Have a nice day.
In the future, maybe the Saudis should do their own wet work. Saudi Arabia is on the side of AQ in Yemen. Yakla Village is an enclave surrounded by Houthi held territory. We have sided against the Houthis in the deep state's favored role for America as a Saudi client state. Yakla is a pink pimple in green Houthi territory waiting to be popped. We should do nothing to keep Yakla from meeting that fate, for example we should not be interdicting Iranian supplies to the Houthis. Yemen is a front in a Shia (Houthi) versus Sunni religious war, the bloodiest type of war. It is in our interest that the flames be fanned rather than damped. A great weakness of America is not knowing when to leave well enough alone. A lot of times things will break your way without you doing anything, this type of war is a prime example. Jimmy Stewart had an excellent chance to solve his Liberty Valance problem in the steak scene with John Wayne. But he had to get all high minded about violence, when John Wayne was ready to solve his Liberty Valance problem. This was a situation where someone else's violence was going to solve his problem, and he was too stupid to take it. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth with stupid crap like human rights and such. And in the end it was John Wayne whe ended up solving his Liberty Valance problem anyway! Non auro, sed ferro, recuperando est patria
Have a nice day. I followed your exchange with Pinguinite and I am now convinced more that I was before that Pinguinite is an uninformed biased asshole. He marches to a different drumbeat and has formulated his own personal rules of engagement to define the circumstances, conditions, degree and manner in which he sees fit for the use of force….which is never. He finds all military rules of engagement to be provocative and must not be applied. He fails to understand that ISIS is using women and children as combatants. ISIS leadership has taken to using child soldiers to carry out supply runs and executions.
Post 39 is for you...
Chances are both groups are lying about something. It's just the nature of people who have anything to do with intel work. If their lips are moving,they are lying. A lot of people need to be fired. This leaking is going to render the WH incapable of doing anything classified. Fired is a good FIRST step because if they are fired they are liable for their own defense attorney bills. After firing,they need to be arrested for treason and various other violations of the Espionage Act. Seeing who comes to their defense and demands the charges be dropped will tell the tale of who is behind what,and they will have no choice but to do this or risk the leakers testifying in open court WHO ordered or asked them to leak what they leaked. Which,of course,is why no arrests will be made. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
That ALWAYS depends on who is doing the defining. And a further implication is that the US Military has never killed any innocent people anywhere in it's ongoing undeclared war against people deemed a threat, even though through 8 years of the Obama administration, a US bomb was dropped against human targets ever 20 minutes. Obviously, that is not a credible suggestion. Grow up! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A WAR WHERE INNOCENTS DO NOT GET KILLED,AND THERE NEVER HAS BEEN SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME. Which is one of many excellent reasons wars should be avoided if possible. Well, then, the thing to do is just nuke these entire regions. They are all ragheads, they are all enemies of the United States, and they all have ICBMs and control nukes currently in orbit. Kill, kill, kill. It's what America stands for. Drama Queen much? I guess you are one of those shitheads that thought US Troops in VN should have just stood still and been shot to death by VC hiding behind villagers and shooting at them,rather than firing back? Guess what,Bubba. People get killed in wars. Even innocent people. It can even be fairly stated that the vast majority of the soldiers in the opposing armies are also innocents,since not a single one of them had anything to do with starting the war. Are you going to carve out a pedestal to stand on right here and state in public that you would stand still and allow yourself to be shot to death or hit by a RPG before you would fire back at the people trying to kill you because they were hiding behind civilians? Yes,or no? Thank you sneaky, for implying that I am actually the one guilty of killing innocent people. Now you also have a reading disability? Do you not understand the concept of "people who think like you"? BTW,there are damn few people who think like you that survive their first time in combat. The survivors have had a sudden and complete change of mind. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Amen,brother,amen! BUT......,there are no bags of cash found on the porch,no free vacations at exclusive golf resorts,no free teenage hookers knocking on your door,no promises of guaranteed degrees from prestigious universities for idiot children,etc,etc,etc,for politicians not willing to play along. The politicians understand what you are saying better than you and I understand it. Hell,that sort of thing is what their careers,fame,and fortunes are based on them understanding. The problem is there is no fame,fortune,or career for people who do the right thing. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Uninformed,naive,and completely ignorant from a personal POV when it comes to warfare. Anybody that tells you they won't shoot a woman or child that is shooting at them and their friends has never been shot at or seen friends shot. It's not like it is in the movies or tv programs. They don't go "Oh,that smarts!" and heal instantly. They mostly scream in pain,and many times they die or are crippled for life and die early as a result of decades of dealing with the pain and depression of being crippled. You are NOT going to see them in the next war,in perfect physical condition and raring to go. If you want to see most of them,you will either have to go to graveyards or VA hospitals/hospices,or to small apartments near VA hospitals,where they live out their lives in constant pain with very little money and no opportunity to work. I will state unequivocally right now that if I ever see anyone shooting at or even pointing a loaded weapon at anyone on a team I am a member of,that SOB's time on earth just expired because I WILL kill them graveyard dead and never lose a moment of sleep over it. Death is forever. There ain't no getting over it,and if I have a choice between someone on my team dying or someone threatening my team dying,the choice is obvious. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Sneaky, you miss the big picture. The USA is an empire. The USA's meddling in foreign affairs worldwide has been a cause of destabilization in many countries, particularly in the middle east. Iraq should never have been invaded, Libya was a pretty decent and stable country before Gadafi, for all of his ills, was taken out which is one source of refugees that have flooded Europe. Syria is now struggling to avoid the same fate. You already admitted that the US has been doing Saudi Arabia's bidding, which implies that the US has been involved in things it shouldn't have been, so I expect we have at least a little bit of common ground on this issue. Many people have said they were in favor of invading Iraq back in 2002, but in subsequent years realized the error after it was found that Bush lied and there were no WMDs, and after the destruction of the country run by the secular president Hussain, even given he was a dictator, came to pass. But I am on record as having opposed it from the very beginning, at no time believing it was a military action that was either called for or wise. And I was right. I even believed the reports at the time that there were WMD's as claimed, and was still opposed to it. Now, this thread is about a US SEAL that was killed during an operation that took place in a small village of some kind located in some god-forsaken country on the other side of the planet that is in the middle of a civil war. And there are suggestions on this thread that the people in this village, armed with AK-47's and even RPGs posed a threat to the national security of the United States of America. I guess their RPGs are the extended range versions or something. Now you mock me for believing reports about children being killed in this operation. Fine. Maybe there weren't. But that certainly implies that you actually believe the reports from the MSM about how this operation was even necessary in the first place. Now I'd wager that you were not there with the SEALS, and that you weren't even anywhere in Africa when it went down. So your knowledge about the actual facts are no more reliable than mine, or for that matter any of the rest of us chairborn losers quarterbacking the tactical events that went down that night in hindsight here on LF. If you believe this operation was necessary and morally sound, how do you feel about the US role in Iraq, Libya and Syria? Do you see those as good things? Do you disagree that US foreign policy had a role in the creation of ISIS? Do you also think Iran is an evil destabilization force in the Middle east? If so, then that will certainly put us at odds. Now I see the operation in Yemen as a small extension of gross errors I mention above made by US empire. I personally don't have the patience to consider that maybe this operation was an exception. Given the track record of the overreaching arm of the USA in screwing up things world over, particularly in the middle east, my presumption with these operations is that they are one more mistake on top of so many others. As for the actions of soldiers once they find themselves in a combat situation, they will do what they need to do to survive, and I don't blame them for that. Soldiers might go to war out of patriotism and love for country, but once the shooting starts, that goes away. They then fight for themselves and their brothers in arms, but that's certainly true on both sides of the battlefield (unless you believe entire militarys are innately evil lacking any humanity which is one of the first things military leadership of all sides indoctrinates into soldiers in every conflict). And yes, innocent people do die in wars. But not every war or battle is morally justified. One factual element in the mythical tale of "The Lord of the Rings" is how power corrupts. People, even good people, who put on the One Ring can be consumed by it's power. Well, the USA's military might is the One Ring to rule them all. So I instinctively question all operations carried out by those wearing that ring, and a raid on a village full of USA-hating Yemenis with guns and RPGs in the middle of a civil-war torn country in Africa strikes me as having no relevance on the safety of people who get up and go to work everyday in the USA.
Which doesn't do a single damn thing to refute anything I wrote. Iraq should never have been invaded, Libya was a pretty decent and stable country before Gadafi, for all of his ills, was taken out which is one source of refugees that have flooded Europe. Syria is now struggling to avoid the same fate. You already admitted that the US has been doing Saudi Arabia's bidding, which implies that the US has been involved in things it shouldn't have been, so I expect we have at least a little bit of common ground on this issue. Well,I am in complete agreement on those things. I guess the prime difference between you and I are you want them left alone,and I think the intelligent thing to do is get them back to doing what they love the best,tribal warfare and killing each other off. Dead Muslims make the world a better place,so we should do anything and everything we can do to keep them killing each other off. Many people have said they were in favor of invading Iraq back in 2002, I'm not one of them. The Cult of Bush the Conqueror was the final straw that got me to leave FR. After telling Jim Bob and the rest of the loons there what I thought of them and why,of course. Now, this thread is about a US SEAL that was killed during an operation that took place in a small village of some kind located in some god-forsaken country on the other side of the planet that is in the middle of a civil war. And there are suggestions on this thread that the people in this village, armed with AK-47's and even RPGs posed a threat to the national security of the United States of America. I guess their RPGs are the extended range versions or something. Are you actually THAT freaking stupid? A village with 100 + armed fundie goat humpers were damn sure a threat to that 6 man SEAL team,there all alone with no help within 100 miles or so. Maybe YOU don't think their deaths are that big a deal,but I assure you they and their families thought it was a big deal. Now you mock me for believing reports about children being killed in this operation. Fine. Maybe there weren't. But that certainly implies that you actually believe the reports from the MSM about how this operation was even necessary in the first place. Once again you are allowing your ignorance to join forces with your ego and for both to be driven by your brain-dead dogma. It's blindingly obvious you have never served a day in uniform,unless maybe a school band uniform. There was a regional meeting of fundie Muslim Jihadists to be held in that village,and one of the big boys in the international Jihad leadership was scheduled to appear. The SEALS were there to put eyes on the targets to verify they were who they were supposed to be,and then call in airstrikes on the building where they were meeting. They were also there to call off the airstrike if the Jihad leadership didn't show up so that innocents wouldn't be hit. They had the "go" or "no go" authority on the airstrike. The best,and even the most humane way to win a war is to kill the leadership. Nobody EVER won a war by killing privates. IF that SEAL team had done the job they were sent in there to do,it might have literally saved the lives of thousands of innocent people,both Muslim and western,as well as their own lives. They failed to complete their mission and they died because of the piss-poor decisions of the team leader. If you watch the movie,his own team tell him to not let the boys go because they will run back home to tell everyone they are there and where they are, and the whole damn village will grab weapons and come after them. Which is what happened. Now I'd wager that you were not there with the SEALS, and that you weren't even anywhere in Africa when it went down. So your knowledge about the actual facts are no more reliable than mine, or for that matter any of the rest of us chairborn losers quarterbacking the tactical events that went down that night in hindsight here on LF. Really,how many covert operations have YOU been on? Ever been a member of a 6 man covert recon team operating behind enemy lines? No,you haven't. You have never even heard a shot fired in anger. I have experienced both. BTW,I once came close to going to war in Africa. It was when some big tribe went to war against the whites in the Belgian Congo,and these bright lights of humanity believed their witch doctor that told them he had brewed up some mojo that would make them immune to the white man's bullets. They were on the march towards Stanleyville when we were put on alert,and we went to Pope Air Force base dressed in civilian clothes with our parachutes,web gear,and a full combat load of bullets and explosives. They were thinking we would be jumping into Stanleyville when it became clear the tribe would take the city,but there were discussions going on at the UN to see if they would do something. Which they did. They sent in the French Foreign Legion and a Belgian paratroop unit,and suddenly the "warriors" heard their mama's calling them back home and had to go. The French Foreign Legion had a certain reputation in Africa,and when they show up the natives are suddenly not so restless. By the time they jumped in the native tribesmen were BBQ'ing nuns and priests in the street. Some big-ass major tribe. I don't think it was the Mau-Mau,but a big tribe of similar size and reputation. That's the type of thing I was doing when I was a teenager. You? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
BTW,I once came close to going to war in Africa. It was when some big tribe went to war against the whites in the Belgian Congo,and these bright lights of humanity believed their witch doctor that told them he had brewed up some mojo that would make them immune to the white man's bullets. They were on the march towards Stanleyville... The folks who think the Middle East is fertile ground for self government are insane at best. The Middle East is made for the despot, they do not reign in their passions and therefore it requires a tyrant, or else you end up with chaos. Like the chaos that ensued in Iraq after the FR cat ladies got their wishes. BTW, did you ever see the old mondo film "Addio Africa?" The Simba rebellion was the natural result of similar stupidity a half century ago. Non auro, sed ferro, recuperando est patria
No. Is it any good? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Sorry,didn't realize you had posted the link to the film. Thanks! Am watching it now. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
I fail to see how "leaving them alone" is somehow different from letting them kill each other off. Is your comprehension level above 5th grade? I was talking about how these people were a threat to the USA! That stands for "United States of America". I.e. the 50 states. Geography. Get it? Sure if you send any military into this town in Yemen they will be at risk. Apparently you have failed to comprehend my message. Your emotions are clearly clouding your reading. Well this is very interesting. Because the version I heard said that the SEAL operation was scheduled by the US military for a moonless night ot best effect surprise, that this was the reason it took place on Trump's watch and not Obama's. Are you suggesting the Jihad meeting was also scheduled for a moonless night as well? Something doesn't add up. Are you talking about a movie, or what happened last month? Well bully for you. But again, you miss the picture. I NEVER made this a discussion about the right and wrong way for military SEALS to act. YOU brought that issue to the table. I merely brought up the strategic futility of US foreign policy, such as the recent operation in Yemen that I think needlessly cost one SEAL his life. But Given your own history, I guess it just hurts to hear someone say that and that's why you flew off the handle on me. You can't handle someone's opinion because it hurts too much. Get a life, Pete. I've never had any dispute with you before. Grow up.
No,you don't seem to have any idea at all what the hell you are talking about. Every time I respond to you,you want to move the goal posts and claim you meant something else. Well this is very interesting. Because the version I heard said that the SEAL operation was scheduled by the US military for a moonless night ot best effect surprise, that this was the reason it took place on Trump's watch and not Obama's. Are you suggesting the Jihad meeting was also scheduled for a moonless night as well? Something doesn't add up. You are senile. The SEAL team was already on the ground,they were spotted by the boys in broad daylight,and the Jihadists travel during the day because headlights draw fire at night. What doesn't add up is your thought processes that allow you to think you know the answers when you don't even understand the questions. You have never been in the military and you don't know diddly-squat about how operations are ran. Are you talking about a movie, or what happened last month? I was obviously writing about the SEAL team the movie was made about. Too tired to look up my first post on this thread right now,but I believe I even mentioned the title of it in my first post,Last Man Standing. Well bully for you. But again, you miss the picture. I NEVER made this a discussion about the right and wrong way for military SEALS to act. YOU brought that issue to the table. I merely brought up the strategic futility of US foreign policy, such as the recent operation in Yemen that I think needlessly cost one SEAL his life. But Given your own history, I guess it just hurts to hear someone say that and that's why you flew off the handle on me. You can't handle someone's opinion because it hurts too much. Blah,blah,blah. You don't know shit,got caught running your mouth about things you don't understand because you think your emotional political stances make up for any lack of knowledge on the subject. Now you can't back off without admitting you were wrong,and your ego won't allow you to do that. Get a life, Pete. I've had a life,and it wasn't sitting behind a desk picking my nose. I've never had any dispute with you before. You never tried to take a superior attitude to me on a subject you know as little about as a cockroach knows about physics,either. You are like the commies of old,you stake out a position and are not about to admit you were wrong. Dogma is rarely reality. Grow up. Advise you should listen to,yourself. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Rudyard Kipling called the black man "The White Man's Burden",and I THINK this was in the late 1800's,or the very early 1900's. Frankly,given the PC Nazi's in charge of thought these days,I'm surprised any modern college administrator even allows any of his poems,books,or short stories to be in the library. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Pete, you are going senile. I've not shifted the discussion. It was you who first expressed hostility to me on this thread. I didn't start that. You don't know shit about me. I have been in the military but I never made my experience a matter of discussion here because neither my military history nor yours is relevant to what I was talking about before you got hostile. I don't know what got up your butt today. But I'm putting you on bozo because I don't waste time talking to people who insist on making discussion into a crap flinging contest. I'll take you off in a few weeks, probably, but I don't know you, and I don't care who you are. I've got a life to live and I'm not going to waste it reading rantings from some internet personality who got offended and hostile because I said a SEAL died for nothing. I wish you no ill. Good night.
LOL... Pete, welcome to the "Pinguinite Bozo Club" He placed me on bozo when I pinned his ass down during each discussion and logically countered his every argument.
Very interesting movie. Thanks.
It was by the same folks who made Mondo Cane. The musical score sounded like a spaghetti western; it really had its poignant moments such as the scene of the setting sun with the Boes doing their reverse trek. Non auro, sed ferro, recuperando est patria
intent to...terrorize. Our SEALs aren't in that business
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#18. To: Pinguinite (#16)
I think it's very safe to say the civilians on site would vehemently disagree.
#19. To: Pinguinite (#13)
We need to see these actions in the way the citizens of foreign countries see them, and not only as we Americans might see them.
#20. To: Tooconservative (#18)
#21. To: Pinguinite (#1)
The truth is that he died serving in the army of an empire, sent on a mission with little to gain ...
#22. To: Justified (#5)
Yep. It takes more than 9 days to plan an operation of this type and the president is not the one doing the planning.
#23. To: borntoweardiamonds (#7)
(Edited)
Special OPs are top secret. Even parents are not permitted to know where their child is located.
#24. To: Tooconservative (#9)
The SEALs did capture/kill several midlevel AQAP leaders but Mattis claims they also got terrabytes of AQ records from multiple hard drives.
#25. To: Tooconservative (#10)
So this was no surprise to them and they had plenty of chances to examine the underlying intel offered by the IC.
#26. To: Pinguinite (#11)
(Edited)
According to reports, they also killed a great number of women and children who were not deemed to be terrorists.
#27. To: Pinguinite (#13)
For the parents and families of the innocent people killed
#28. To: Tooconservative (#14)
Most likely, it was civilians caught when missiles/bombs hit. Or there were more civilians in the compound than anyone knew about. Or they got caught in a crossfire.
#29. To: hondo68 (#17)
They're soldiers they don't set policy, they follow orders. The blame lies with the Commander in Chief, President Trump. The buck stops in the Oval Office.
#30. To: Pinguinite (#20)
TC.... children were killed that would otherwise still be alive today if this operation hadn't happened. To accept their deaths as unavoidable collateral damage that was necessary for the greater good plants seeds of gross immorality.
#31. To: Pinguinite (#20)
TC.... children were killed that would otherwise still be alive today if this operation hadn't happened. To accept their deaths as unavoidable collateral damage that was necessary for the greater good plants seeds of gross immorality.
Pray tell, what is the difference between the end result of ISIS and US SEALS, beyond the cause for which they kill innocent people?
#32. To: sneakypete (#24)
Regardless of if they did or not,they will deny capturing anything.
#33. To: sneakypete, Pinguinite (#30)
Sounds like Yemeni villagers hiding AQAP terrorists.
#34. To: sneakypete (#27)
There WERE no innocent people killed,you bleeping idiot!
#35. To: Tooconservative (#33)
In the future, maybe the Saudis should do their own wet work.
#36. To: sneakypete, Pinguinite (#35)
#37. To: sneakypete (#26)
And of course you believe the raghead reports because they have such a well-deserved reputation of making sure their women and children are safe,right?
Seen that "Last man standing" movie about the SEAL team that when into one of the Shitstainistans to take out a terrorist leader,and everybody on the team was killed but the team leader because they team leader lacked the balls necessary to either kill or tie up and sedate two young teen goatherders that walked right up on them in hiding?
That whole damn team was killed because the team leader had a mindset similar to yours.
#38. To: Tooconservative (#33)
Not a direct threat to us, not members of ISIS.
#39. To: (#37)
Thank you sneaky, for implying that I am actually the one guilty of killing innocent people.
#40. To: sneakypete (#39)
#41. To: Tooconservative (#36)
One thing is for certain: highly-placed individuals are leaking and they are lying. There can be no doubt. One group or the other is lying to try to destroy Trump's efforts and his appointees.
#42. To: Pinguinite (#37)
(Edited)
If it's true no innocent people were killed, that's great.
#43. To: nativist nationalist (#38)
Yemen is a front in a Shia (Houthi) versus Sunni religious war, the bloodiest type of war. It is in our interest that the flames be fanned rather than damped.
#44. To: Gatlin (#39)
I followed your exchange with Pinguinite and I am now convinced more that I was before that Pinguinite is an uninformed biased asshole.
#45. To: sneakypete (#44)
#46. To: Pinguinite (#45)
Sneaky, you miss the big picture. The USA is an empire. The USA's meddling in foreign affairs worldwide has been a cause of destabilization in many countries, particularly in the middle east.
#47. To: sneakypete (#46)
...and I think the intelligent thing to do is get them back to doing what they love the best,tribal warfare and killing each other off. Dead Muslims make the world a better place,so we should do anything and everything we can do to keep them killing each other off...
#48. To: nativist nationalist (#47)
BTW, did you ever see the old mondo film "Addio Africa?"
#49. To: nativist nationalist (#47)
#50. To: sneakypete (#46)
Well,I am in complete agreement on those things. I guess the prime difference between you and I are you want them left alone,and I think the intelligent thing to do is get them back to doing what they love the best,tribal warfare and killing each other off.
Are you actually THAT freaking stupid? A village with 100 + armed fundie goat humpers were damn sure a threat to that 6 man SEAL team,there all alone with no help within 100 miles or so.
Maybe YOU don't think their deaths are that big a deal,but I assure you they and their families thought it was a big deal.
Once again you are allowing your ignorance to join forces with your ego and for both to be driven by your brain-dead dogma. It's blindingly obvious you have never served a day in uniform,unless maybe a school band uniform. There was a regional meeting of fundie Muslim Jihadists to be held in that village,and one of the big boys in the international Jihad leadership was scheduled to appear. The SEALS were there to put eyes on the targets to verify they were who they were supposed to be,and then call in airstrikes on the building where they were meeting. They were also there to call off the airstrike if the Jihad leadership didn't show up so that innocents wouldn't be hit. They had the "go" or "no go" authority on the airstrike. The best,and even the most humane way to win a war is to kill the leadership. Nobody EVER won a war by killing privates.
IF that SEAL team had done the job they were sent in there to do,it might have literally saved the lives of thousands of innocent people,both Muslim and western,as well as their own lives. They failed to complete their mission and they died because of the piss-poor decisions of the team leader. If you watch the movie,his own team tell him to not let the boys go because they will run back home to tell everyone they are there and where they are, and the whole damn village will grab weapons and come after them. Which is what happened.
Really,how many covert operations have YOU been on? Ever been a member of a 6 man covert recon team operating behind enemy lines? No,you haven't. You have never even heard a shot fired in anger. I have experienced both.
#51. To: Pinguinite (#50)
Is your comprehension level above 5th grade? I was talking about how these people were a threat to the USA!
#52. To: nativist nationalist (#47)
BTW, did you ever see the old mondo film "Addio Africa?"
#53. To: sneakypete (#51)
#54. To: sneakypete (#53)
But I'm putting you on bozo ...
#55. To: nativist nationalist (#47)
#56. To: A K A Stone (#55)
Very interesting movie. Thanks.
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