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Health/Medical
See other Health/Medical Articles

Title: Shrinks Battle Over Diagnosing Trump
Source: Psychology Today
URL Source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo ... e-over-diagnosing-donald-trump
Published: Feb 2, 2017
Author: Hara Estroff Marano
Post Date: 2017-02-02 10:02:39 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 4426
Comments: 13

Chaos in the White House fuels discord amongst the experts.

In the several days since psychologist John Gartner posted a petition on Facebook declaring that Donald Trump must be removed from office because he has “a serious mental illness that renders him psychologically incapable of competently discharging the duties of President of the United States,” nearly 12,000 psychologists, psychiatrists, and other mental health professionals have signed their agreement.

Although the petition has no legal power and it may be the beneficiary of timing more than tactics—it was posted mere hours before Trump issued a highly contentious executive order banning immigrants from some Muslim countries—it has made public what many have been saying privately for some time. And by doing so, it is exposing a large and growing rift within the mental health community. 

In contention are three significant and intertwined issues. Can Donald Trump or any public figure be deemed to have mental illness, even based on specific, well-publicized criteria reflecting observable behavior? Is it ethical or appropriate for mental health professionals to venture into public acts of diagnosis? Is psychology a suitable instrument for addressing issues of governance?

Gartner, a psychologist in private practice in Baltimore and New York, author of a psychobiography of Bill Clinton, and a former instructor in psychiatry at Johns Hopkins, contends that Trump “manifestly” meets the DSM-published criteria for at least three personality disorders: narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), antisocial personality disorder, and paranoid personality disorder. They are a “toxic brew” that in his view not only make Trump “dangerous” but add up to “malignant narcissism,” not a diagnosis formalized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual but a label coined by the German-born psychologist and psychoanalyst Erich Fromm.

What makes it possible to diagnose Trump, says Gartner, is that the DSM, version 5 of which is in current use, puts pathology in the realm of the observable. It describes problematic behaviors, not possible motivations. For example, “when Trump declares that he knows more about ISIS than the generals, he is displaying grandiosity,” one of the criteria for narcissistic personality disorder. Or when he instructs the National Parks Service not to display photographs showing empty bleachers during the inaugural parade, he is making obvious his need for admiration. 

Bad as NPD is, what makes Trump especially dangerous, Gartner contends, is his antisocial nature, manifest, he alleges, in such DSM-5 criteria as impulsiveness, deceitfulness (his use of aliases such as John Barron on recordings voicing support for his activities), and failing to obey laws and norms (refusal to show tax returns). “We’ve never had an antisocial president,” says Gartner. “What it means is that there are no guardrails for us.”

It is widely regarded as unethical—a violation of the so-called Goldwater Rule—for mental health experts to offer a professional diagnosis of any person they have not personally examined. The rule was established in 1973 by the American Psychiatric Association and is still in force today. Although psychologists are not expressly forbidden from making public pronouncements about the mental health of public figures, the American Psychological Association has affirmed the rule and psychologists generally abide by it.

But Gartner argues that the mental health community has an obligation to protect the public that overrides the Goldwater Rule, and that even in the short time since the inauguration, Trump has proved himself “a clear and present danger.” What’s more, he believes the Goldwater Rule is no longer relevant because it was established before the DSM made diagnosis behaviorally based. “We don’t need to interview Donald Trump to get reliable information. We have a lot of data based on his actions. The DSM is not a hard book to read. Trump’s lying has been documented publicly in The New York Times.”

The Goldwater Rule is as valid as ever, insists Steven Berglas, a Los Angeles psychologist and executive coach and consultant. What’s more, he says, Gartner’s petition is a flagrant misuse of the DSM. “You cannot discern from public behavior whether a person’s behavior represents an authentic personality style or is choreographed.” How do we know, he asks, that Trump isn’t “throwing paint balls at the wall, creating chaos so that he can dial it down later to get what he wants.” In fact, he points out, the President seems to be behaving quite rationally in that he is fulfilling his campaign promises.

“I specialize in narcissists, says Berglas. “Many effective leaders are narcissists. Diagnosis is not a cudgel to be tossed around in anger.” And in fact, he believes that doing so is a disservice to the field. The DSM is meant to guide treatment and referrals, and it loses value when it is applied to diagnosis at a distance. He thinks the DSM should come with a warning label: Don’t use this at home.

Calling Gartner’s petition “a temper tantrum,” Berglas insists that keeping out terrorists the wrong way does not warrant calling Trump mentally ill. And the fact that Donald Trump mocked a reporter is deplorable but doesn’t mean he’ll be faster to press the nuclear button.

“Donald Trump is a thoroughly inadequate human being,” Berglas insists. “That is a matter of relevance to the electorate. Why isn’t honesty important to voters?”

And that is one of the many criticisms that psychiatrist Allen Frances levels at the “well-meaning but misguided effort” to declare Donald Trump mentally ill. “Donald Trump is evil—bad not mad—and incompetent. He is a threat to democracy.” His fitness for office should be addressed politically, not psychologically, Frances says.

“I wrote the criteria for personality disorders,” says Frances, professor emeritus at Duke. The public diagnoses being bandied about are inaccurate and “miss the point,” he argues. They ignore the criterion that symptoms must be causing distress and impairment. “Donald Trump causes distress to others, not to himself. He is rewarded for his behaviors.”

There is sickness, Frances contends, but he believes it is in society in general. “We are ignoring real existential threats—of overpopulation, of climate, of inequality.” The cure for this illness, he believes is political activism and electing officials who can be trusted to face “the real problems.” Those most in a position to diagnose are, with the exception of the petitioners and those on the media circuit, sitting out the question of the year.


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#1. To: Willie Green (#0)

In the several days since psychologist John Gartner posted a petition on Facebook declaring that Donald Trump must be removed from office because he has “a serious mental illness that renders him psychologically incapable of competently discharging the duties of President of the United States,” nearly 12,000 psychologists, psychiatrists, and other mental health professionals have signed their agreement.

You could easily posted this about Obama, bush Clinton, bush, Reagan, Carter, Nixon, LBJ and JFK!

Its nonsensical rantings of a pissed of progressive movement that see's their ideal socialist/fascist/marxist desires falling apart!

Justified  posted on  2017-02-02   10:09:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Willie Green (#0)

"It is widely regarded as unethical—a violation of the so-called Goldwater Rule—for mental health experts to offer a professional diagnosis of any person they have not personally examined."

Section 7.3 in the American Psychiatric Association's (APA) code of ethics:

"On occasion psychiatrists are asked for an opinion about an individual who is in the light of public attention or who has disclosed information about himself/herself through public media. In such circumstances, a psychiatrist may share with the public his or her expertise about psychiatric issues in general. However, it is unethical for a psychiatrist to offer a professional opinion unless he or she has conducted an examination and has been granted proper authorization for such a statement.

Yet "nearly 12,000 psychologists, psychiatrists, and other mental health professionals have signed their agreement".

misterwhite  posted on  2017-02-02   10:23:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Willie Green (#0)

There are a lot of people who strongly despise Trump for personal reasons, and this cross section of society spans all professions, including those is the mental health industry. All people in this group will be willing to apply their expertise in the perceived patriotic task of denigrating Trump, so it's pretty expected that anti-Trump psychiatrists will do their part too.

To me, this activity expresses an ailment on the part of society that has been conditioned by the MSM throughout the election cycle to believe Trump is the anti-christ, and refuses to recognize the massive discontent of the citizenry that made Trump president. As too often happens in medicine, they want to treat the symptom (Trump) instead of the disease (a pissed off America).

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-02-02   10:29:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Justified (#1)

You could easily posted this about Obama, bush Clinton, bush, Reagan, Carter, Nixon, LBJ and JFK!

Its nonsensical rantings of a pissed of progressive movement that see's their ideal socialist/fascist/marxist desires falling apart!

I know several Army psychologists. They readily admit most in their profession took the career choice to try to fix something wrong with themselves.

Two clinical psychologists were present for the BBQ discussion and admitted the same thing and most admitted they took that career path because of a mental illness in their family.

These are dedicated professionals who just might be crazier than the people they analyze.

redleghunter  posted on  2017-02-03   9:38:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: redleghunter (#4)

To RATZ/RINOZ, all non-Marxists R in need of psychological assistance,
but, in REALITY, it's those same LEFTists HOO R criminally- INSANE...MUD

"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2017-02-03   10:28:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: redleghunter (#4)

"I know several Army psychologists. They readily admit most in their profession took the career choice to try to fix something wrong with themselves.

Two clinical psychologists were present for the BBQ discussion and admitted the same thing and most admitted they took that career path because of a mental illness in their family.

These are dedicated professionals who just might be crazier than the people they analyze."

Well said...MUD

"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2017-02-03   10:30:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Mudboy Slim (#5)

Good to see you got out of your "house." :-)

redleghunter  posted on  2017-02-03   20:15:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Pinguinite (#3)

You have such a wonderful and kind heart.

All these years viewing posts by Willie and you still respond as if he does not have a motive.

God Bless you.

redleghunter  posted on  2017-02-03   20:17:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: redleghunter (#8)

All these years viewing posts by Willie and you still respond as if he does not have a motive.

I don't really have any preconceived idea of what Willie's motives are. I merely responded to the article.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-02-04   1:18:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Willie Green (#0)

I don't know what the problem is, he has a bad case of narcissistic meglomania

paraclete  posted on  2017-02-04   7:23:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Willie Green (#0) (Edited)

In the several days since psychologist John Gartner posted a petition on Facebook declaring that Donald Trump must be removed from office because he has “a serious mental illness that renders him psychologically incapable of competently discharging the duties of President of the United States,” nearly 12,000 psychologists, psychiatrists, and other mental health professionals have signed their agreement.

Fuck off libtards... that includes you, Racist Willie. Nobody give two shits about your anguish, fears or feelings.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2017-02-04   8:50:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: redleghunter (#7)

"Q: How many gradual (sorry, that's supposed to be "graduate") students

does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A: "I'm afraid we don't know, but make my stipend tax-free, give my

advisor a $30,000 grant of the taxpayer's money,

and I'm sure he can tell me how to do the gruntwork for him so he can take the

credit for answering this incredibly vital question."

(Compliments of the Linux Fortune program.)

Damn GRADUATE student TRASH...MUD

"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2017-02-06   14:27:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: redleghunter (#7)

"Good to see you got out of your "house." :-)"

Actually, good sir...
MUD lives in the MUDcave and rambles about Richmond in the MUDmobile,
all the while spreading good CHEER and rockin' INSTANT KARMA...MUD

BTW...just sayin'...heh heh heh.

"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2017-02-07   9:37:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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