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Watching The Cops
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Title: Confederate flag-flying officer suspended
Source: Traverse City Record-Eagle
URL Source: http://www.record-eagle.com/news/lo ... a9-5502-8ebb-e90cc1d696d3.html
Published: Nov 14, 2016
Author: CAROL THOMPSON & MATT TROUTMAN
Post Date: 2016-11-14 10:53:56 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 8623
Comments: 21

Police chief to community: 'I hear you'

TRAVERSE CITY — An outpouring of support brought a tear to Marshall Collins Jr.'s eye after Traverse City residents learned a city police officer displayed a Confederate flag at a political rally.

Collins said he hasn't yet heard from Traverse City police officials following his run-in with city police Officer Michael Peters during a Nov. 11 "Love Trumps Hate" rally. Peters drove a pickup truck decorated with a Confederate flag to the rally at the Open Space, parked and drank a beer.

The flag drew a crowd, including Collins, who confronted Peters over what Collins considers a symbol of hate. Collins later learned Peters works in law enforcement.

"If you’re a role model to the community you do that on and off duty," Collins said.

Traverse City police Chief Jeff O'Brien on Sunday announced he suspended Peters.

"He is not working as a police officer," said Traverse City Police Chief Jeff O'Brien. "I do not condone his actions."

Peters' behavior was intimidating and not a reflection of the department's mission, O'Brien said.

O'Brien estimated about 100 people emailed him calling for Peters' termination from the department. He and department leaders launched an internal investigation into whether Peters' actions violated laws or the department's code of conduct. O'Brien said any evidence of illegal behavior will be sent to Grand Traverse County prosecutors.

Peters' union contract guarantees his pay during suspension and the investigation, O'Brien said. He penned a Facebook post that announced Peters' suspension and addressed it to Traverse City citizens.

"I hear you!" he wrote. "Let me assure you that we hold our officers to a higher standard and the flag incident will be fully investigated."

O'Brien said he has not yet spoken with Peters, but will meet with him Monday at 8 a.m. 

"We will get through this," O'Brien said. "The community will get through this."

Collins, who is black, said Peters' suspension is warranted. He said he received many "very, very positive" messages of support from the community.

"I’m proud to be part of this community," he said.

Peters couldn't be reached for comment.

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#1. To: Willie Green (#0)

Freedom of speech and association lose again.

Why is it that we can demonize certain historical relics that are misunderstood at best but we can't prosecute a criminal whose emailed evidence is splashed all over the internet?

***If we really want to be great again, go ask Uncle Sam to get back on our side of the border, get out of our wallets, get out of our papers and property, get out of our bodies, and get out of our way. - TheFireBert***“Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality.” ― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland***"If you laid all of our laws end to end, there would be no end." - Mark Twain

TheFireBert  posted on  2016-11-14   11:22:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: TheFireBert (#1) (Edited)

Freedom of speech and association lose again.

Federalism.

Traverse City is way, way up in Northern Michigan. It's not really a "city", more of a town, the biggest one near my childhood stomping grounds, 21 miles away.

The Republican Party - the original one, the anti-slavery, abolitionist party that Abraham Lincoln came later to head - was founded in Jackson, Michigan in 1845.

Slavery was never permitted in Michigan territory, not ever. All of the native Indians of the land, the Potawotamie, Ottawa and Chippewa are still there, and they are the tribes of one Indian Nation - the Three Fires People. They were one big Indian nation, all related, and they didn't enslave each other.

The French, who came next and converted them to Catholicism and intermarried them, were fur trappers, traders and priests. They never practiced slavery in that territory.

The British came next, very briefly, but the Indians rose up and pretty much massacred them, so the territory that passed into US hands at the end of the Revolution was a place filled with Indians and French people.

Under the Articles of Confederation, Michigan was organized as part of the "Northwest Territories", and in the Northwest Ordinance of 1786, slavery was permanently banned from ever being introduced in Michigan Territory.

So, at no point in its history was there ever slavery in that land. Slavery is contrary to the air and water of Michigan, particularly Northern Michigan, where the only allowance the forest makes to civilization is to let the pines and maples be cleared away for cherry trees. Even the agriculture up there is tree-based - as close to a woods as you can get without it being a woods.

This is the land, Michigan, that produced (along with Wisconsin) the Iron Brigade, First Brigade, First Division, First Corps - that stopped the Confederates on day one of Gettysburg, and that was the brigade that had the highest casualties of any on either side in the Civil War.

From Second Bull Run to Appomattox Courthouse, the Iron Brigade, those Midwesterners from Michigan, Wisconsin, and Indiana (the states that gave the White House to Trump, and gave Trump our new Vice President) were in every major battle.

Northern Michigan is not a land where the Confederate Flag has ANY PLACE.

When I grew up, right there at Traverse City, the Confederate Flag was never seen. What it MEANT to us was: slavery, rebellion, the Civil War, oppression - THE ENEMY.

Down South, there is a proud tradition of that flag. In Traverse City, Michigan, the Confederate Battle Flag is the same thing as flying a swastika. Northern Michigan people are not Confederates. The Confederates are the polar opposite, the ANTITHESIS of those people. Slavery is not in the water or the air or the land of Traverse City, and never has been since its first settlement by the Ottawa. And that's what that flag symbolizes to people up there: slavery. It's an obnoxious, offensive symbol.

People up there react badly to that flag. Always have. All the way back to my childhood.

That is the flag of the enemy.

So, some cop drives around with a swastika flag - no different - and it rightly pisses the locals off. Nobody with that sort of attitude has any business policing our people up there in Northern Michigan. The soil cannot bear that.

Now, to a Southerner, the Stars and Bars - that's what people in TRAVERSE CITY would call that Flag, and they DO NOT CARE that Southerners say it's not called that - is nothing like the swastika. But there in the woods of Northern Michigan, it's a symbol of slavery and rebellion, the enemy flag.

This is federalism. It's WHY we don't have one-size-fits-all. Michigan fought in the Civil War too, just like Alabama and Virginia did.

Michigan lost its sons in that war just like Alabama and Virginia did.

The Iron Brigade, Michigan's pride, lost MORE of its sons than any Southern brigade did.

The abolitionist Republicans BEGAN on that cold northern soil.

People in Michigan are not Southerners. They have a completely different view of what that war and that symbol were all about. And there's no revisionist history going on - that flag, and the ideas behind it, never, ever had a place in Northern Michigan.

That the flag was displayed, the simple fact that some asshole decided to drive around with it, got attention. In Northern Michigan, that means that the guy is announcing he's a racist. That's what that flag means up there, and always did. So they came to talk to him about it, to give him a hard time about it. That flag does not belong on Michigan soil. Northern Michigan is not the South. We FOUGHT that flag, and everything that flag stood for. You are offending us by flying that flag HERE, not because we're liberals, but for the same reason that flag was our enemy in 1861: rebellion, slavery, oppression, plantations - everything foreign to our Northern land.

That a COP flew it - well, we don't want people with a gun policing us with those attitudes. This is not the South. We do not permit big-bellied sheriffs to drive around and intimidate people. The cops are not a paramilitary force occupying us, they are civil servants we put in place to serve us, and NOTHING MORE THAN THAT. They don't have to be heroes up there in our cold northern woods, because we're not shooting each other up there.

Anybody who wants to unfurl a Confederate Flag in Traverse City does not belong there. And any COP who does that has entirely the wrong attitudes about everything to be on our police force.

That's why we have federalism. The US is vast and diverse. You can find what you want and live how you want in great spaces of this land. We have our different cultures. Flamboyant gays are welcome in San Francisco. Not so much in Selma, Alabama. Oh, sure, they can LIVE there, but they shouldn't expect to be hired by the locals to do the people's business.

Likewise, some loudmouth who despises Southerners and their accents does not belong on the police force in Nashville.

And a guy who has issues such that he feels the need to proudly display the Stars and Bars in Traverse City, Michigan really is not the sort who is going to be acceptable to be policing those far northern people in that far northern land.

It's a symbol of slavery, and Northern Michigan is cold and wild and free. Always has been. Always will be.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-11-14   11:55:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

What Northern amnesia can't block out: Slaves helped build Detroit.

If you grew up in Michigan, your history books showed you images of slavery: black men and women picking cotton in the South.

Michigan, we learned, was a very important part of the Underground Railroad, helping African-Americans across the border to freedom in Canada.

But what we weren’t taught was this: Slavery helped build Detroit.

Some of the best-known names used for roads, counties, cities and schools around Southeast Michigan belong to old families who owned slaves.

Bill McGraw dug into "Detroit's Big Bad Secret" for Deadline Detroit.

“It’s always (a) surprise, because even well-informed, well-educated people never happened to learn that slavery existed in Detroit for 120 years.”

McGraw says it was a well-established system in Detroit; slavery preceded the arrival of the French.

The number of slaves in Detroit was considerably smaller than in the South, McGraw says.

“The biggest slave owner in Detroit had 26 slaves, where Thomas Jefferson had 600 slaves during his lifetime.”

McGraw there were also slaves in New York City and Montreal, among other cities. He says it's common to find a collective amnesia of slave ownership in the North.

http://michiganradio.org/post/what-northern-amnesia-cant-block-out- slaves-helped-build-detroit.

Gatlin  posted on  2016-11-14   12:11:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

Sumtymes, your stupid rants miss the point of "political correctness" which has been instituted in America to usurp historical characterisitcs about our nation.

See, I can suggest your point in one sentence.

buckeroo  posted on  2016-11-14   12:14:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

SEX TRAFFICKING SLOWLY SPREADING INTO NORTHERN MICHIGAN

Northern Michigan has long been a haven for tourists, transplants and locals to escape big city life, but despite our beautiful beaches and small town character, we are not immune to some of the world’s ugliest problems, including a practice that has been defined by many as “modern slavery.” Sex trafficking is the recruitment, transport and harboring of people in order to engage them in commercial sex against their will, and many law enforcement and advocacy workers believe it’s on the rise in our region. “People think it happens in Detroit, in Chicago, but this would be the perfect place,” said Laura Tarsa of the recently formed organization Citizens Against Sex Trafficking (CAST), based in Traverse City. “We’re all walking around, going to these festivals, but for these people it’s completely different,” said Tarsa. “They could be walking right next to you and not be able to ask for help. It’s a daunting other world, an under layer.”

Michigan has the second highest rate of sex trafficking in the United States, surpassed only by Nevada. Leelanau County sentenced their first attempted human trafficking offender, Thomas Vandermeulen, in September 2014. In Grand Traverse County, Jamel King was arrested during a motel drug bust in July 2015 and is also facing trafficking charges.

Though these cases may seem anecdotal, law enforcement officials believe they represent a trend.

When asked if he feels sex trafficking is increasing in northern Michigan, Lt. Dan King, team commander of Traverse Narcotics, said people have “buried their heads in the sand when it comes to this issue.”

He pointed to the recent local cases, as well as the number of local ads placed on Backpage.com, as indicators. Backpage.com is a free classified ad website, similar to the popular Craigslist, and it’s one of the growing ways nationwide traffickers peddle victims. The site, arranged by country, state and region, is a veritable clearinghouse for both legal and illegal goods ranging from cars to antique collectables. However, nearly 70 escort ads — for men, women and transgender individuals — have been posted under the site’s Northern Michigan Adult section in the last month alone. Additionally, there are several dozen recent local listings under “body rubs,” “dom & fetish” and other “services.” Some officials believe these services are being performed by trafficked individuals; they think the dramatic increase in the ads is tied to the influx of these victims in our area.

While the exact number of individuals actively being trafficked in northern Michigan is unclear, many in law enforcement believe the number of successful trafficking convictions does not accurately reflect the scope of the problem.

Many indentify a lack of evidence as the main barrier to effective prosecution.

“I’ll acknowledge that I think there’s more of a problem than I even see with the complaints coming across my desk, just from what I’m hearing from the police officers,” said Grand Traverse County Prosecutor Bob Cooney. “I don’t think the public is seeing it that much because we just don’t have that many cases where we’re able to prosecute or where we even get a complaint.”

Cooney admitted that insufficient evidence and jurisdictional issues impeded successfully charging individuals with sex trafficking.

“It takes surveillance and it takes more resources to investigate,” said Cooney. “You really have to have undercover investigation to really figure out what’s going on.”

Others, like King, believe the reason more alleged sex traffickers aren’t convicted is that the victims are intimidated.

“Ask yourself, ‘how are you going to establish probable cause in the elements of the crime?’” said King. “The number one way to do that is by the victim. Who do you think is going to be hesitant to testify in open court?” King explained the frequent unwillingness of victims to testify against their alleged traffickers stems from the abuse they have suffered.

“[They’ve] been manipulated during that time period. [They’ve] been told what you can do, what you can’t do,” he said. “This is what you’ll eat. This is how you’ll dress. These are the drugs you’ll use. So there’s a huge form of intimidation,” King continued. “Mental abuse, not only physical abuse... but mental abuse.”

Most officials agree that an increase in sex trafficking is tied to the increase of narcotics flowing into northern Michigan.

“A lot of your sex workers are using a controlled substance. It may not just be heroin, but other forms of opiates. It could be crack cocaine,” said King.

“Drugs and the sex trade go hand in hand,” echoed Cooney.

Leelanau County Sheriff Mike Borkovich agrees the issue is tied to a regional heroin increase.

“If they have that deep of a conviction, they’ll do anything they can to get it,” said Borkovich, speaking of addicted trafficking victims. “They’re really treated like animals.”

Like heroin and cocaine, sex trafficking victims are a profitable commodity, but these human casualties are even more lucrative than drugs.

“You can only sell a drug one time, but you can sell a girl, a woman, multiple times a day,” said Tarsa. She indicated women serve an average of seven or eight Johns (individuals paying for sex) a day, but can see as many as twenty. This means that over the average seven-year tenure as a trafficked sex worker, a woman could potentially service more than 50,000 Johns.

While sex trafficking may be increasing in the region, so is pubic indignation. Several groups are stepping up to raise awareness of the issue.

CAST recently held a screening of the sex trafficking documentary Nefarious, followed by a lecture with documentary director and noted human rights activist Benji Nolot.

Northwestern Michigan College is also “concerned about the spread of human trafficking both here and abroad,” wrote Jim Bensley, director of International Services and Service Learning at the college.

According to Bensley, “The group NMC Students for Human Rights has taken on the task to educate themselves and work towards the eradication of this destructive practice.”

He indicated Students for Human Rights is planning a 2016 alternative spring break during which they will visit with advocacy organizations, law enforcement agencies and support groups in Michigan, Illinois and Tennessee. Bensley’s hope is that, by exposing students to other communities where this issues has already risen to the surface, they will be more apt to identify signs of it here at home.

For more information on how to identify or report suspected sex trafficking victims, visit: tc-cast.org/resources/.

http://www.northernexpress.com/michigan/article-7227-sex- trafficking-slowly-spreading-into-northern-michigan.html.

Gatlin  posted on  2016-11-14   12:16:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

The Republican Party - the original one, the anti-slavery, abolitionist party that Abraham Lincoln came later to head - was founded in Jackson, Michigan in 1845.

Actually, it was founded in 1854 in Ripon, WI. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/republican-party-founded

civilwarbuff  posted on  2016-11-14   13:23:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Gatlin (#5)

Yes, it's a horrible crime. Northwestern Michigan is beautiful. The rural economy (cherry orchards, vineyards) sits in an area with miles and miles and miles of glorious sandy beaches and "ocean" sunsets. Lake Michigan here is very much like an ocean. There are turquoise blue inland lakes there surrounded by summer homes and cottages. This is where the wealthy of Detroit and Chicago take their summer vacations.

That means that there is money flowing in there. The tourist clientele tend to be rich. The little harbor cities are all full of yachts during the season. The locals are not rich rich, but they are comfortable, and gear themselves to tourism along with the cherries.

What that means is that the summers are packed with rich urbanites on vacation - and that means a demand for drugs and sex.

Remember Bob Seeger's "Fire Lake"? That was Torch Lake, about 15 miles northeast of Traverse City, right up the coast. Traverse City is the regional hub of it all, the place where the airport is, and the shopping. It's also the place where the RV parks are and the lower-scale tourists can come for cheaper lodging.

Of course there's sex trafficking up there. Any tourist mecca will have that.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-11-14   13:53:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: buckeroo (#4)

Sumtymes, your stupid rants miss the point of "political correctness" which has been instituted in America to usurp historical characterisitcs about our nation.

There was no political correctness here.

A Confederate Flag in Traverse City is culturally offensive. It has ALWAYS been offensive. It is the flag of the enemy.

There was no political correctness here. These are NORTHERN rednecks, if you will, and they don't like that symbol. At all.

The cop got fired because he flew what far Northern rednecks think of as an enemy flag.

That's not political correctness. It's older than that.

And it's an argument for federalism. They love stuff in the South that actually pisses off people in the far rural North, not because of political correctness but the opposite - because of tradition.

That's why we have a diverse country, so people can live with what they like and want, and why one-size-fits-all-ism is bad.

My full point is that the politically correct say that the Confederate Flag belongs NOWHERE and must be suppressed. And that is not true! It is the cultural heritage of half the nation.

BUT LIKEWISE, there are parts of the nation which hate what that flag stood for, and who fought it from the beginning. And flying it THERE is not appropriate either.

There are parts of the country where gay marriage is fine. But there are other parts where it's an obnoxious imposition.

Federalism is supposed to let each of these parts live in peace, by not imposing one set of rules on everybody.

It's easy to see traditional conservatism that wants to be left alone when it comes to defending the Confederate flag.

It's hard to see that it's ALSO traditional conservatism that wants to be left alone when it comes to OPPOSING the display of the Confederate flag in an out- of-the-way place like Traverse City, Michigan.

Most folks in T.C. have no beef with other folks flying the Stars 'n Bars in Alabama, but it doesn't belong up there, in the far North. A Canadian flag is fine, the Stars and Bars are not.

Federalism.

In the age of Trump, that's a GOOD thing.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-11-14   14:02:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Gatlin (#3)

McGraw says it was a well-established system in Detroit; slavery preceded the arrival of the French.

Slavery preceded the arrival of the French, eh? 120 years, eh?

Well, the problem with that is the French were the first to arrive in Detroit.

It was a fishing camp of Potawotamie before that. Nobody was owning slaves in the Indian tribes, and there isn't any written history of them before the French.

Second, Detroit was founded in 1701, by the French. In 1786 the Northwest Ordinance organized it as American territory, and prohibited slavery there. So, there's a span of 85 years, maximum, during which slavery could have existed there on the frontier, not anywhere close to the 120 years stated in the article.

And actually, slavery DIDN'T exist in Detroit. There were, of course, people passing through with their slaves from time to time, to be sure - America was a slave country. But under US rule Michigan was ALWAYS freesoil, and under French rule it was mostly a wilderness full of Indians and fur trappers.

If one wants to stretch and call indentured servants to the French governors or prisoners slaves, one can find slavery in Detroit. But that's it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-11-14   14:08:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Gatlin (#3)

And Traverse City is 300 miles northwest of Detroit, in a different climate zone. It was founded by Americans in the 19th Century, and there was never any slavery of any sort in that region.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-11-14   14:13:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: civilwarbuff (#6)

Looks like the Republican Party stood up simultaneously in 1854 (not 1845).

From Wikipedia: Jackson, Michigan Birthplace of the Republican Party – "Under the Oaks" Jackson is one of the birthplaces of the Republican Party. Undisputed is the fact that the first official meeting of the group that called itself "Republican" was held in Jackson Under the Oaks on July 6, 1854. A Michigan historical marker at what is now the northwest corner of Second and Franklin streets in Jackson commemorates an anti-slavery county convention on July 6, 1854. Meeting outside to avoid a hot, over-crowded hall, the group ultimately selected a slate of candidates for state elections. The marker identifies this as the birth of the Republican Party.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-11-14   14:16:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Vicomte13 (#11)

Interesting......

civilwarbuff  posted on  2016-11-14   15:08:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Vicomte13, civilwarbuff (#11)

Michael Zak, Back to the Basics for the Republican Party, 3rd ed., 2003, at page 24:

Amazon link

Several sites share the credit as the birthplace of our Party. At one "anti-Nebraska" town meeting in a Ripon, Wisconsin schoolhouse on February 28, 1854, the leader, Alvan Bovay, called for another meeting the following month to organize a new political party, to be called the "Republican Party." Though only fifty-three people were present at that second small town meeting on March 20, 1854, this was the first time the name "Republican" was used for the new political party. The first state Republican Party convention, attended by 10,000 people, took place in Jackson, Michigan on July 6, 1854. Dozens of members of Congress pledged themselves to our new Party. The Republican Association, forerunner of the Republican National Committee, met for the first time in June 1855. The first national organizational meeting of newly-minted Republicans was in Pittsburgh in February 1856, followed four months later by the first Republican National Convention, with a platform largely written by party icon David Wilmot.

nolu chan  posted on  2016-11-14   16:37:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: civilwarbuff (#12)

Of course, they put up those historical plaques all over the country before the age of the Internet. It's sometimes hard to remember how, just a few years ago, it was really hard to research facts like that. There were lots of "Sewing capitals" and "Biggest malls in the world", etc., when there was no way to verify such things, and those designations really meant "Biggest that I've ever seen" for whoever put up the plaque.

The Internet has made the sorting of such information easier.

I was interested to see that there are several "Iron Brigades" from the Civil War period, but "THE" Iron Brigade, by consensus, is the "Iron Brigade of the West" that held on the 1st Day of Gettysburg, both because of that decisive role it played in the battle, and also because of the distinction of being the brigade with the highest casualty rate in the war.

It's interesting how much more pinpoint we can get with facts thanks to the Internet. But it's also a problem. I was taught that Jackson was the place where the GOP began. I didn't make that up. And you were taught that it was in Minnesota. Had that blurb about Jackson, Michigan NOT been on the Internet, it would have been easy to think I was making it up. I didn't look up the place in Minnesota, but I'll bet there's a plaque there too.

When stuff is in writing, or on a plaque, it SEEMS so official - or rather, it IS official! - but it may not be true.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-11-14   16:44:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Vicomte13 (#2) (Edited)

Down South, there is a proud tradition of that flag.

Because very few Southerners understand the South as it actually existed. They listen to a band play Dixie and their chests puff out to fantasies about a life as Rhett Butlers and Scarlett O'Haras and genteel cotilleans. That life never existed except for an extremely small proportion of the Southern people.

The South represented an influx of European feudalism under which a few people lived as lords in great plantation houses and the rest lived as vassels. The average White man held a social position inferior to the average black slave. Half the White men refused to go into the Southern army because they did't believe in the Southern cause. A black slave was valuable and brought twelve to fiteen hundred dollars at Monsantos slave auction. An average white mans life wasn't worth anything to anybody.

rlk  posted on  2016-11-14   17:30:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: rlk (#15)

Yes, that is a pretty good summary, really. Still, the Southerners are proud, and I say let them be so. Texans are proud. New Yorkers are proud. Even those Michiganders up there in the cold, dark tree-tangled North are very proud people. They're all proud of different things.

It annoys me when people in New York get bent out of shape over folks down in Alabama having the Confederate Flag on their state flag, or on some monument. What business is it of New Yorkers?

But likewise, being one of those gnomes of the Northwoods, I understand why, way up there, a Confederate Flag is really a very provocative thing. It screams "I am a racist against blacks, and I'm not afraid to announce it!" It's the equivalent of gays walking into a Christian bakery and demanding that the Christians bake them a wedding cake.

It says, to those far Northern people: "I am a racist against blacks, and a rebel, and I can fly the enemy flag here in your home because I've got freedom of speech!" Well, yeah, that's true - he CAN fly that flag, Traverse City isn't the South. And it isn't the rust belt either. Nobody's going to burn a cross in his lawn, beat him up, key his car, anything like this. They're going to do what they did. Walk up and talk to him and tell him they don't like that flag because of all it stands for, to them.

Now, he may say it doesn't mean that to him, but it DOES mean all those things to THEM. It's a really radical and obnoxious symbol in the far North, the symbol of everything we're not and never were.

But, it's a free country so if he's gotta parade his damned flag around, well, by all means. Fine.

But he's a COP. Now, THAT'S different. He carries a gun and gets to enforce law on people, our people. Somebody with those attitudes, and the attitude to drag that rag through the streets of a far Northern town...maybe he need to go be a cop in Tennessee or somewhere where that flag doesn't mean what it means to us.

As a cop, you're the most visible face of the government. We don't like rebels. We don't like what old Dixie was. We don't like what that flag stands for in our minds: rebellion, bloodshed, assassination of a great President, slavery, brutality, ignorance, corruption and pellagra. We don't like it, and we certainly don't want one of our uniformed people having those hotheaded Southern ideals in his head walking around our streets. We're not like that, and we don't like it. We'll tolerate regular folks doing it - though they'll be shunned and ostracized - but we're not going to tolerate a government official doing it. Not here. This is a happy land of cherries and lakes and beaches and fudge. We're happy we live here - it's God's country - and we like to share it with tourists. That's how we live well. Having some bigot parade his southern symbol through the streets is not what we are, or ever were. It's bad for business.

And having a COP do it - well, that doesn't work for us. There's a whole region of the country that will accept him with open arms. But not here. Not that. No. It doesn't belong here. The Stars and Bars do not belong in God's Country.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-11-14   19:01:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Willie Green (#0)

Ive got mine flying... while my pension rolls in.

Haaaaaa. Stick that up your racist, hates whitey, black ass

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2016-11-16   16:54:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: All (#0)

Depicted below are the actual national flags of the Confederate State of America. If folks are going to get upset about the Confederate Flag, they should at least know what one really looks like.

CONFEDERATE FLAGS:

The first national flag of the Confederate States of America.

Name: "The Stars and Bars"

Use: National flag
Adopted: March 4, 1861 (first 7-star version)
November 28, 1861 (final 13-star version)

- - -

The second national flag of the Confederate States of America

Name: "The Stainless Banner"

Use: National flag
Adopted: May 1, 1863

- - -

The third national flag of the Confederate States of America.

Name: "The Blood-Stained Banner"

Use: National flag
Adopted: March 4, 1865

nolu chan  posted on  2016-11-16   20:26:30 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: nolu chan (#18)

What most people display is not the Confederate National Flag but is in reality the Confederate Battle flag. This was carried into battle by regiments; it uually had the regimental name and major engagements stitched into it. Maybe someone could post one since my tablet won't let me copy/paste images....@#@#%^%##@android!!!!!!!!!!!

civilwarbuff  posted on  2016-11-22   14:06:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: civilwarbuff (#19)

Battle flags of the Army of Northern Virginia. This was also adopted by other units and became known as the Confederate Battle Flag. It was the military battle flag, not the political flag of the Confederate states.

- - -

- - -

http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html

"Confederate Navy Jack: Used as a navy jack at sea from 1863 onward. This flag has become the generally recognized symbol of the South."

nolu chan  posted on  2016-11-22   15:11:50 ET  (3 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: nolu chan (#20)

Thank you nolu chan

civilwarbuff  posted on  2016-11-22   21:04:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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