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Title: Can Hillary Clinton still win? Unlikely, but possible
Source: WKRN.com
URL Source: http://wkrn.com/2016/11/13/can-hill ... ill-win-unlikely-but-possible/
Published: Nov 13, 2016
Author: staff
Post Date: 2016-11-13 13:15:48 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 9510
Comments: 84

COLUMBUS, Ohio (WCMH) – Is there still a chance Hillary Clinton could win the presidency? Technically, yes.

There’s a petition online with over 3.5 million signatures as of Saturday evening, asking electors of the electoral college to cast their votes for Clinton instead of Donald Trump.

The petition’s creator Elijah Berg writes:

“If they all vote the way their states voted, Donald Trump will win. However, they can vote for Hillary Clinton if they choose. Even in states where that is not allowed, their vote would still be counted, they would simply pay a small fine – which we can be sure Clinton supporters will be glad to pay!”

There is another petition online with about 1,000 signatures as of Saturday evening, urging the electoral college to confirm Trump as the president.

The petition’s creator writes:

“The Electoral system is the system that allows every state to make their vote heard. Without it; the populous dense, liberal, inner cities would decide the election every year. That’s not democracy, that’s a farce.”

The votes have been counted here in Ohio and Trump is the winner. It’s been a bitter pill for some to swallow and that’s why millions are urging state electors to change their minds when they meet in December to cast their votes.

But, an expert from the Ohio State University says don’t hold your breath.

Political science professor emeritus Paul Beck says while electors can choose to ignore how their state voted and instead vote for Clinton, it is very unlikely that they would. He says even if one or two electors went “rogue” it wouldn’t be enough to change the results.

“Could one or two of them not vote for Trump? I think that’s always possible,” he says. “I think it’s not likely and they would suffer the consequences of that, particularly if it changed the outcome of the election.”

Beck says electors will meet in their state capitols on December 19th and cast their votes. Right now, Trump is the projected winner with 290 electoral votes and Clinton with 228.

He says electors are not compelled to pick a particular candidate, but they are carefully chosen by the political parties and are usually already committed to voting a certain way.

“Every once in a while, maybe in a state like Ohio where some of the party leadership was not supporting Trump there could be somebody that goes rogue, but I really doubt that is going to happen and you don’t want to be in a position that you’re changing the result of an election by your single vote,” he says.

However, Beck says there is still a legitimate question on why the electoral college is the determining institution for the election rather than the popular vote.

“I don’t expect it to change in the future. It would require individual states that have small numbers of electoral votes to be able to go to the popular vote and they’re not going to want to do that. It dilutes the kind of influence that they have,” he says. “I think it is antiquated. It was a deal that was cut back in 1787. It was the price among other deals or compromises. It was the price we paid for our Constitution. On the other hand, changing it is difficult.”

For now, Beck says his best advice is to accept that the contest is over and watch for the announcement of cabinet positions.

“We need to deal with that,” he says. “There will be a new administration in Washington. We need to keep an eye, of course, on what they do.”


I recommend that you fine folks re-cork your bottles of champaigne. Here are the key dates:

November 8, 2016—Election Day

Registered voters cast their votes for President and Vice President. By doing so, they also help choose the electors who will represent their state in the Electoral College.

Mid-November through December 19, 2016

After the presidential election, the governor of your state prepares seven Certificates of Ascertainment. “As soon as practicable,” after the election results in your state are certified, the governor sends one of the Certificates of Ascertainment to the Archivist.

Certificates of Ascertainment should be sent to the Archivist no later than the meeting of the electors in December. However, federal law sets no penalty for missing the deadline.

The remaining six Certificates of Ascertainment are held for use at the meeting of the Electors in December.

December 13, 2016

States must make final decisions in any controversies over the appointment of their electors at least six days before the meeting of the Electors. This is so their electoral votes will be presumed valid when presented to Congress.

Decisions by states’ courts are conclusive, if decided under laws enacted before Election Day.

December 19, 2016

The Electors meet in their state and vote for President and Vice President on separate ballots. The electors record their votes on six “Certificates of Vote,” which are paired with the six remaining Certificates of Ascertainment.

The electors sign, seal, and certify six sets of electoral votes. A set of electoral votes consists of one Certificate of Ascertainment and one Certificate of Vote. These are distributed immediately as follows:

one set to the President of the Senate (the Vice President) for the official count of the electoral votes in January; two packages to the Secretary of State in the state where the electors met—one is an archival set that becomes part of the public record of the Secretary of State's office and the other is a reserve set that is subject to the call of the President of the Senate to replace missing or incomplete electoral votes; two packages to the Archivist—one is an archival set that becomes part of the permanent collection at the National Archives and Records Administration and the other is a reserve set that is subject to the call of the President of the Senate to replace missing or incomplete electoral votes; and one set to the presiding judge in the district where the Electors met—this is also a reserve set that is subject to the call of the President of the Senate to replace missing or incomplete electoral votes.

December 28, 2016

Electoral votes (the Certificates of Vote) must be received by the President of the Senate and the Archivist no later than nine days after the meeting of the electors. States face no legal penalty for failure to comply.

If votes are lost or delayed, the Archivist may take extraordinary measures to retrieve duplicate originals.

On or Before January 3, 2017

The Archivist and/or representatives from the Office of the Federal Register meet with the Secretary of the Senate and the Clerk of the House in late December or early January. This is, in part, a ceremonial occasion. Informal meetings may take place earlier.

January 6, 2017

The Congress meets in joint session to count the electoral votes. Congress may pass a law to change this date.

The Vice President, as President of the Senate, presides over the count and announces the results of the Electoral College vote. The President of the Senate then declares which persons, if any, have been elected President and Vice President of the United States.

If a State submits conflicting sets of electoral votes to Congress, the two Houses acting concurrently may accept or reject the votes. If they do not concur, the votes of the electors certified by the Governor of the State on the Certificate of Ascertainment would be counted in Congress.

If no Presidential candidate wins 270 or more electoral votes, a majority, the 12th Amendment to the Constitution provides for the House of Representatives to decide the Presidential election. If necessary the House would elect the President by majority vote, choosing from the three candidates who received the greatest number of electoral votes. The vote would be taken by state, with each state having one vote.

If no Vice Presidential candidate wins 270 or more electoral votes, a majority, the 12th Amendment provides for the Senate to elect the Vice President. If necessary, the Senate would elect the Vice President by majority vote, choosing from the two candidates who received the greatest number of electoral votes. The vote would be taken by state, with each Senator having one vote.

If any objections to the Electoral College vote are made, they must be submitted in writing and be signed by at least one member of the House and one Senator. If objections are presented, the House and Senate withdraw to their respective chambers to consider their merits under procedures set out in federal law.

January 20, 2017 at Noon—Inauguration Day

The President-elect takes the Oath of Office and becomes the President of the United States.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 27.

#1. To: buckeroo (#0)

"There’s a petition online with over 3.5 million signatures as of Saturday evening, asking electors of the electoral college to cast their votes for Clinton instead of Donald Trump."

When that petition reaches 60 million I'll comment on it.

misterwhite  posted on  2016-11-13   13:44:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: misterwhite (#1)

You missed the point. The Electoral College controls the ascension of the next President and that process continues for the next month and half. Any of the state electors can change their vote and even vote for my dead dawg Scruffy.

buckeroo  posted on  2016-11-13   13:49:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: buckeroo, misterwhite, A K A Stone (#2)

The Electoral College controls the ascension of the next President and that process continues for the next month and half. Any of the state electors can change their vote …
That’s true.

However, if your are holding out hope there will be enough Faithless Electors to keep Trump from taking office in January, then you are moving “from the sublime to the ridiculous.”

Since you brought up this subject, how many Faithless Elector members of the Electoral College changed their vote from their party's designated candidate during the past 100 years?

Gatlin  posted on  2016-11-13   14:53:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Gatlin (#14)

... [H]ow many Faithless Elector members of the Electoral College changed their vote from their party's designated candidate during the past 100 years?

Why do you ask a question, like that? Don't you know how STUPID you look when viewing history for a sense of today's problems/solutions? What is going on: America has no constitutional anchors anymore within its own government.

buckeroo  posted on  2016-11-13   15:08:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: buckeroo (#18)

... [H]ow many Faithless Elector members of the Electoral College changed their vote from their party's designated candidate during the past 100 years?

Why do you ask a question, like that? Don't you know how STUPID you look when viewing history for a sense of today's problems/solutions? What is going on: America has no constitutional anchors anymore within its own government.

I ask simply because the answer will point out how fruitless your bleak hope that Trump will not take office is. Don’t you know how UTTERLY STUPID you look hoping there is a possibility of Trump not assuming office? When viewing today’s problems/solutions….Americans have spoken. They have affirmed that they want Trump. And so now, it is trump they will have.

BTW, I’ll answer the question for you. There were ONLY 9 Faithless Elector members of the Electoral College who changed their vote from their party's designated candidate during the past 100 years?

Here are the names, dates, and stories of the 9 “faithless votes” during the last 100 years:

1. 2004 - Anonymous (Democrat, Minnesota)
An unknown elector from Minnesota, pledged to vote for Democrat John Kerry, cast a presidential vote instead for Kerry’s running mate John Edwards (the elector also cast his or her vice presidential vote for Edwards). One Minnesota elector, who believed the Edwards vote must have been a mistake, said, "I'm certainly glad the Electoral College isn't separated by one vote."

2. 2000 - Barbara Lett-Simmons (Democrat, District of Columbia)
Barbara Lett-Simmons, a Democratic elector from the District of Columbia, did not cast her vote in order to protest the lack of congressional representation for Washington, DC. Lett-Simmons was the first elector to abstain from voting since 1832. Her abstention did not affect the outcome of the election.

3. 1988 - Margaret Leach (Democrat, West Virginia)
Margaret Leach, a nurse from Huntington, WV, was pledged to the Democratic Party. During the Electoral College process, Leach learned that members of the Electoral College were not required to vote for the candidates to whom they were pledged, whereupon she decided to draw more attention to the situation by switching her votes for president and vice president. She cast her presidential vote for Lloyd Bentsen, the Democratic Vice Presidential candidate, and cast her vice presidential vote for Michael Dukakis, the Democratic presidential candidate. Leach tried to get other electors to join her, but hers remained the only unexpected vote.

4. 1976 - Mike Padden (Republican, Washington)
Mike Padden, a lawyer from Spokane, WA, was pledged to vote for Gerald Ford, the 1976 Republican candidate for president. Instead Padden voted for Ronald Reagan, who had run in the Republican primary and lost. For vice president he voted for Robert Dole, Gerald Ford's running mate.

5. 1972 - Roger L. MacBride (Republican, Virginia)
Roger L. MacBride was pledged to the Republican party of Virginia. However, in the 1972 election, MacBride did not cast his electoral vote for Richard Nixon, the Republican presidential candidate, but for John Hospers, the Libertarian presidential candidate. He also cast his vice presidential vote for Toni Nathan, the Libertarian vice presidential candidate, (making Nathan the first woman to receive an electoral vote). MacBride ran as the Libertarian candidate for president in the next election but did not receive any electoral votes.

6. 1968 - Dr. Lloyd W. Bailey (Republican, North Carolina)
Dr. Lloyd W. Bailey was an elector for the Republican Party of North Carolina. He did not vote for Richard Nixon however, but for George Wallace, the presidential candidate for the American Independence Party. (Wallace received a total of 46 electoral votes). Bailey claimed that Nixon had done some things that displeased him (like appointing Henry Kissinger and Daniel Moynihan) and so he decided not to vote for him. He also protested that he had never signed a pledge promising to vote for any particular candidate and that his vote for Wallace was justified because Wallace was the winner in Bailey’s district. Bailey later admitted at a Senate hearing that he would have voted for Richard Nixon if his vote would have altered the outcome of the election.

7. 1960 - Henry D. Irwin (Republican, Oklahoma)
Henry D. Irwin, a Republican elector from Oklahoma, was originally pledged to Richard Nixon. Irwin later admitted in an interview with CBS that he "could not stomach" Nixon. He tried to convince the Democratic and Republican electors to reject both Kennedy and Nixon as presidential candidates. His choice replacement was a combination of two conservative senators: Harry F. Byrd of Virginia and Barry Goldwater of Arizona. In fact, he sent out telegrams to the other electors. One telegram sent to the 218 Republican electors read: "I am Oklahoma Republican elector. The Republican electors cannot deny the election to Kennedy. Sufficient conservative Democratic electors available to deny labor Socialist nominee. Would you consider Byrd President, Goldwater Vice President, or wire any acceptable substitute. All replies strict confidence." Irwin received several replies (about 40) from other electors but he was the only one to vote against his designated party. He cast his electoral votes for Byrd and Goldwater. In the same election 14 unpledged electors (eight from Mississippi and six from Alabama) cast their presidential votes for Harry Byrd. All 14 also voted for Senator Strom Thurmond of South Carolina as vice president.

8. 1956 - W. F. Turner (Democrat, Alabama)
W.F. Turner, a Democratic elector from Alabama, voted for Walter Burgwyn Jones instead of the Democratic candidate Adlai Stevenson. Jones was formerly a circuit court judge from Turner’s hometown.

9. 1948 - Preston Parks (Democrat, Tennessee)
Preston Parks was a member of Tennessee’s Democratic Party. He was appointed as one of their state electors early in the election year. Before the election, members of the Democratic Party split off and formed the States Rights party. Parks vowed before the election to vote for Senator Strom Thurmond, the States Rights Party candidate instead of Harry Truman. Another elector also made the same pledge but ended up voting for Truman. Thurmond, who gathered less than 3% of the popular vote, received a total of 39 electoral votes. These votes came from Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, and South Carolina.

Hey, Bucky, here’s a message for you:

Gatlin  posted on  2016-11-13   15:24:55 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Gatlin (#19) (Edited)

You deliver weak unimportant supporting dialogue.

Soros likes you; he loves you to forget about internal strife in the form of the MSM still maintaining riots all around the nation to include what you see NOW.

You really think that electors aren't persuaded about massive and violent influences on their own votes? If so, you are a loser, suckin' yukon's ass.

buckeroo  posted on  2016-11-13   15:32:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: buckeroo (#20) (Edited)

You really think that electors aren't persuaded about massive and violent influences on their own votes?

Yea, Bucky, I really think there will not be enough Faithless Electors to throw the election to Hillary.

I also really think you are stupid enough to believe it can happen.

Give it up….YOU LOST….asshole!

Gatlin  posted on  2016-11-13   17:05:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Gatlin (#23)

YOU LOST

How do you measure your statement? Because you say so?

buckeroo  posted on  2016-11-13   17:10:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: buckeroo (#25)

YOU LOST

How do you measure your statement? Because you say so?

That's the BEST way.

Gatlin  posted on  2016-11-13   17:11:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 27.

#30. To: Gatlin (#27)

The only BEST WAY you know is gettin' your jollies off with yukon.

buckeroo  posted on  2016-11-13 17:22:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 27.

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