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Title: State Proposes Bold Law to Treat Pot Like Tobacco And Expunge All Records of Marijuana “Crimes”
Source:
Activist Post
URL Source: http://www.activistpost.com/2016/09 ... -records-marijuana-crimes.html
Published: Sep 27, 2016
Author: Claire Bernish
Post Date: 2016-09-28 07:51:26 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 30928
Comments: 181
Bold legislation introduced in New Jersey last week would not only treat cannabis like tobacco — legalizing it — but would expunge records for individuals previously convicted of certain marijuana-related ‘crimes.’ Should the bill, A4193, pass, convenience stores would be permitted to sell cannabis alongside cigarettes — available to anyone aged 19 and older. “This bill would legalize marijuana by removing all criminal liability associated with marijuana from the New Jersey Code of Criminal Justice … as well as its regulation as a controlled dangerous substance under the New Jersey Controlled Dangerous Substances Act,” the proposed law states. Sponsored by Assemblyman Michael Patrick Carroll — once deemed the state Legislature’s “Most Conservative” member, as the Newark Patch pointed out — the legislation “[l]egalizes marijuana and provides for records expungement for certain past marijuana offenses; treats marijuana products similar to tobacco products, including the use of civil penalties for providing marijuana to persons under 19 years of age.” Carroll’s bill audacious thumbs its nose at the DEA’s vehemently criticized decision this year not to reschedule cannabis from its current inexplicable designation as a dangerous substance of no medical value, akin to heroin or cocaine. “To me it’s just not a big deal,” Carroll told Politico. “It’s already ubiquitous. Anybody who thinks this is somehow going to increase the availability of marijuana has never been 19. If that’s the case, then what’s the big deal about having it available at the local 7-Eleven?” Alcohol, after all, is a standard fixture at convenience stores and gas stations, with store owners facing fines and other civil penalties for underage distribution. “The whole point here is to get the government out of the business of treating at least marijuana use as a crime and treat it instead as a social problem,” Carroll continued, adding he’s never tried cannabis, personally. “You’re talking to the world’s most boring, straightest guy,” he said. “I’ve never popped a pill, never smoked a joint, nothing. I’ve never quite understood the all the allure of this stuff.” Apparently, though, he doesn’t feel his personal views concerning substances should override contrary opinions and choices. On the surface, the right-wing lawmaker would seem the last person sponsoring legislation taking such a radical departure from federal law — but on issues of personal freedom, his stances align most closely with libertarian philosophy. Carroll not only co-sponsored New Jersey’s medical cannabis legislation, in April he proposed lowering the state’s drinking age to 18, saying, according to the Patch, If you’re old enough to make the determination you want to enlist in the Marines, you’re old enough to determine if you want to have a beer. Despite an overwhelming public perception cannabis should at least be decriminalized and growing national disillusionment with the failed drug war — with the resultant largest prison population in the world, gang violence, strengthening of Mexican cartels, epidemic-level police violence, and inability of those in need to get life-saving medical cannabis treatment — the Drug Enforcement Agency opted to maintain marijuana prohibition this year. Should the proposed law indeed pass, New Jersey would join Alaska, Colorado, Washington, and Oregon in legal, recreational weed. In fact, degrees of decriminalization and legalization — mostly for medical use — exist in half the states in the nation. November’s election will likely expand those numbers. Ballot measures could potentially legalize recreational use in varying degrees in California, Nevada, Massachusetts, Arizona, and Nevada — and although they aren’t all expected to pass, the segment of the population arguing against legalization shrinks seemingly by the month. New Jersey lawmakers are attempting a multi-pronged approach to legalizing weed. Another bill, A2068, filed in January by Assemblyman Reed Gusciora — ironically, one of the most liberal members of the state Legislature — and State Sen. Nicholas Scutari would legalize cannabis and treat it akin to alcohol. A third is expected after several legislators, including Gusciora and Scutari, return from an information-gathering field trip examining legalization in Colorado in October. New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie — whom Carroll refers to as “the Fat Man” — will almost certainly veto any legislation concerning cannabis. But his tenure in office draws to a close just over a year from now. “We would like to get the ball rolling, even with this governor and even if he vetoes it, the choice then could be made to put it on the ballot through the Legislature or set the groundwork for the next administration,” Gusciora told Politico. “I think it’s only a matter of time.” Claire Bernish writes for TheFreeThoughtProject.com, where this article first appeared.
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 178.
#71. To: Deckard (#0)
According to the link, the measures are leading everywhere but Arizona. And Trump and Clinton each say it's an issue for the states.
If so, then who's responsible for keeping marijuana in the states?
If so, then who's responsible for keeping marijuana in the states? Why, primarily the states that don't want it - just as responsibility for keeping alcohol out of dry jurisdictions lies primarily with those jurisdictions. Congress has the authority if it so chooses to act against such interstate movement, though not against intrastate commerce. Glad I could clear that up for you.
Did that work with alcohol? I seem to recall that it didn't, and the "dry" states pressured Congress to pass the Webb-Kenyon Act, making it a federal crime. Naturally, that didn't work either, leading to Prohibition. Now you come along saying that it will work with recreational drugs. Or are you saying you know it won't work, but since the U.S. Constitution is a suicide pact, we have to do it?
>>Did that work with alcohol? I seem to recall that it didn't, and the "dry" states pressured Congress Somebody always wants somebody else to pick up the check for their own preferences. According to President Nixon's National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse, "The lack of federal enforcement rendered the statute [the Webb-Kenyon Act] virtually meaningless." It wasn't tried and found wanting - it wasn't seriously tried.
You mean the federal government found it impossible to control 50,000 miles of borders surrounding the 25 "dry" states? But they could if we legalized drugs, huh?
You mean the federal government found it impossible Opposite - they never tried.
But they would if it were drugs. You're delusional.
But they would if it were drugs. Why would they work any less vigorously against federally illegal interstate drug transactions than they do now against federally illegal intrastate drug transactions? And suppose they chose not to: how does that amount to a "suicide pact"?
If they only have authority over interstate transactions, they'd have to be there the moment the drug crossed the border. Either side of the state border is out-of-bounds. "how does that amount to a "suicide pact"?" We both know it wouldn't work. Congress published findings saying it wouldn't work. So to say we should do it anyways is a suicide pact.
Not so - a car with Colorado plates parked in Oklahoma, with a trunk full of marijuana, has broken Oklahoma law, for starters - and has established probable cause to retrace the driver's steps and determine whether a Colorado seller sold him the pot Suicide pacts involve the death of all parties. "Congress published findings" - BFD.
We were discussing federal enforcement of interstate commerce. At least, I thought we were. Are you saying the DEA has the power to enforce Oklahoma law? Doesn't that go against your argument that this should be a state issue? Marijuana is fungible. You can't look at it and say. "That's Colorado pot!" The driver would say to the DEA that it's Oklahoma pot being transported intrastate -- which is beyond their jurisdiction. Can Oklahoma law enforcement arrest this guy for possession? Yes. But again, that's not what we're discussing.
Are you saying the DEA has the power to enforce Oklahoma law? The DEA has the power to turn him over to the state authorities and thereby facilitate the initiation of a federal investigation. Beat that straw man. So have you dropped this "suicide pact" tomfoolery?
Nope. Your entire scenario is fantasy. If the DEA is limited to only enforcing interstate commerce, what are they doing in this guy's trunk to begin with? He's parked in Oklahoma. He's not crossing any interstate border. How can they prove he crossed the border with the pot? They can't. How do they know it's Colorado pot? They don't. Any search they did is inadmissable in court. They ain't turning him over to anybody. They're out of their jurisdiction. They can't prove he broke federal law ... unless they see him cross the state border with the pot.
He's got Colorado plates so he did cross a border. Sez you - the requirement for successful prosecution is proof beyond REASONABLE doubt not ANY CONCEIVABLE doubt.
That's not against the law. "Sez you - the requirement for successful prosecution is proof beyond REASONABLE doubt not ANY CONCEIVABLE doubt." What proof? Where's your proof he crossed the border with the pot? Where's your proof that the pot is even from Colorado? If you're prosecuting an interstate commerce case, aren't those facts important? It's no surprise the federal government didn't even try to enforce the law against the interstate commerce of alcohol. It's unenforceable. As it would be against pot. And you know it.
That's not against the law. Nobody said it was, strawbeater. The Colorado seller testifies.
[misterwhite:] That's not against the law. "Nobody said it was, strawbeater." [crickets] "Sez you - the requirement for successful prosecution is proof beyond REASONABLE doubt not ANY CONCEIVABLE doubt." What proof? Where's your proof he crossed the border with the pot? Where's your proof that the pot is even from Colorado? "The Colorado seller testifies." [crickets] For those keeping score at home.
You mean he confesses to the crime. That's how the states are going to stop interstate transportation. Those who do so will confess. Well, OK. If you say so. Now give the computer back to the adult.
You mean he confesses to the crime. Who says he committed a crime? He didn't take any pot across the Colorado border.
The Colorado seller testifies to what?
That he sold pot to the guy who soon after showed up in a neighboring state with Colorado plates and pot in the car.
Oh. THAT Colorado seller. First of all, the feds have no authority to question a guy with Colorado plates in a neighboring state. Or search his car. He has broken no law. Second, even if he accidentally opens his trunk and the feds see the marijuana, they can take no action. Their authority is limited to drugs crossing the border. Interstate commerce. Right? So, how in the world are they going to be able to find the name of the Colorado retailer who sold him the pot? Even if they could, the driver of the car could say he took that pot home. The stuff in the trunk is not Colorado pot. The bottom line is that your law is federally unenforceable.
Which differs not a whit from the current situation. To repeat: The DEA has the power to turn him over to the state authorities and thereby facilitate the initiation of a federal investigation. And a jury can decide if that possibility constitutes REASONABLE doubt.
But only if his trunk acidentally opens. Yeah. Your version of the law will work fabulously.
But only if his trunk acidentally opens. They would have no fewer ways than they have now to discover possession of marijuana, your cavorting and misdirection notwithstanding.
The feds would have far fewer ways. They could, for example, have reasonable suspicion that there are drugs in the trunk. But they can't act because they lack authority. You've limited them to interstate transactions only, remember?
They can if they have reasonable suspicion that the pot crossed state lines, e.g., Colorado plates.
Round and round we go. How can they prove it's Colorado pot? They can't. And the driver sure as hell isn't going to admit it. They got nothing ... except a possible harassment lawsuit.
Round and round indeed: "the driver of the car could say he took that pot [to his purchase of which the Colorado seller testified] home. The stuff in the trunk is not Colorado pot." "And a jury can decide if that possibility constitutes REASONABLE doubt."
How in the world did the feds find that "Colorado seller"? Why would they even look for the seller when the driver can simply say he took it home? Where do the feds get the authority to do all this when the only "proof" they have is out-of-state plates? Where did they get the authority to search the trunk? This case would never get in front of a jury because any sane judge would laugh it out of the courtroom.
#180. To: misterwhite (#178)
How does law enforcement find anyone who has information relevant to an investigation? It's always a task with no guarantee of success, but it often bears fruit. Asked and answered. More straw men - it's not about proof but reasonable suspicion.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestBallot measures could potentially legalize recreational use in varying degrees in California, Nevada, Massachusetts, Arizona, and Nevada — and although they aren’t all expected to pass, the segment of the population arguing against legalization shrinks seemingly by the month.
#73. To: ConservingFreedom (#71)
"it's an issue for the states."
#77. To: misterwhite (#73)
"Trump and Clinton each say it's an issue for the states."
#79. To: ConservingFreedom (#77)
"Why, primarily the states that don't want it - just as responsibility for keeping alcohol out of dry jurisdictions lies primarily with those jurisdictions."
#84. To: misterwhite (#79)
>>"Why, primarily the states that don't want it - just as responsibility for keeping alcohol out of dry jurisdictions lies primarily with those jurisdictions."
to pass the Webb-Kenyon Act, making it a federal crime. Naturally, that didn't work either
#86. To: ConservingFreedom (#84)
"The lack of federal enforcement rendered the statute [the Webb-Kenyon Act] virtually meaningless."
#88. To: misterwhite (#86)
'According to President Nixon's National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse, "The lack of federal enforcement rendered the statute [the Webb-Kenyon Act] virtually meaningless."'
#89. To: ConservingFreedom (#88)
"Opposite - they never tried."
#90. To: misterwhite (#89)
"Opposite - they never tried."
#91. To: ConservingFreedom (#90)
"Why would they work any less vigorously against federally illegal interstate drug transactions than they do now against federally illegal intrastate drug transactions?"
#92. To: misterwhite (#91)
If they only have authority over interstate transactions, they'd have to be there the moment the drug crossed the border. Either side of the state border is out-of-bounds.
"how does that amount to a "suicide pact"?"
We both know it wouldn't work. Congress published findings saying it wouldn't work.
So to say we should do it anyways is a suicide pact.
#93. To: ConservingFreedom (#92)
(Edited)
"with a trunk full of marijuana, has broken Oklahoma law, for starters"
#96. To: misterwhite (#93)
"with a trunk full of marijuana, has broken Oklahoma law, for starters [DECEPTIVELY OMITTED BY MISTERWHITE:] - and has established probable cause to retrace the driver's steps and determine whether a Colorado seller sold him the pot"
look at it and say. "That's Colorado pot!"
"how does that amount to a "suicide pact"?"
We both know it wouldn't work. Congress published findings saying it wouldn't work.
So to say we should do it anyways is a suicide pact.
"Suicide pacts involve the death of all parties."
[crickets]
#99. To: ConservingFreedom (#96)
"The DEA has the power to turn him over to the state authorities and thereby facilitate the initiation of a federal investigation."
#104. To: misterwhite (#99)
If the DEA is limited to only enforcing interstate commerce, what are they doing in this guy's trunk to begin with? He's parked in Oklahoma. He's not crossing any interstate border.
How can they prove he crossed the border with the pot? They can't. How do they know it's Colorado pot? They don't.
#109. To: ConservingFreedom (#104)
"He's got Colorado plates so he did cross a border."
#113. To: misterwhite (#109)
"He's got Colorado plates so he did cross a border."
"Sez you - the requirement for successful prosecution is proof beyond REASONABLE doubt not ANY CONCEIVABLE doubt."
What proof? Where's your proof he crossed the border with the pot? Where's your proof that the pot is even from Colorado?
#144. To: All (#113)
"He's got Colorado plates so he did cross a border."
#147. To: ConservingFreedom (#144)
"The Colorado seller testifies."
#150. To: misterwhite (#147)
"The Colorado seller testifies."
#152. To: ConservingFreedom (#150)
#153. To: misterwhite (#152)
The Colorado seller testifies to what?
#159. To: ConservingFreedom (#153)
"That he sold pot to the guy who soon after showed up in a neighboring state with Colorado plates and pot in the car."
#162. To: misterwhite (#159)
First of all, the feds have no authority to question a guy with Colorado plates in a neighboring state. Or search his car. He has broken no law.
Second, even if he accidentally opens his trunk and the feds see the marijuana, they can take no action.
the driver of the car could say he took that pot home. The stuff in the trunk is not Colorado pot.
#165. To: ConservingFreedom (#162)
"To repeat: The DEA has the power to turn him over to the state authorities"
#166. To: misterwhite (#165)
"To repeat: The DEA has the power to turn him over to the state authorities"
#167. To: ConservingFreedom (#166)
"They would have no fewer ways than they have now to discover possession of marijuana"
#175. To: misterwhite (#167)
They could, for example, have reasonable suspicion that there are drugs in the trunk. But they can't act
#176. To: ConservingFreedom (#175)
"They can if they have reasonable suspicion that the pot crossed state lines, e.g., Colorado plates."
#177. To: misterwhite (#176)
Round and round we go. How can they prove it's Colorado pot?
#178. To: ConservingFreedom (#177)
"to his purchase of which the Colorado seller testified"
Replies to Comment # 178. How in the world did the feds find that "Colorado seller"?
Why would they even look for the seller when the driver can simply say he took it home?
Where do the feds get the authority to do all this when the only "proof" they have is out-of-state plates? Where did they get the authority to search the trunk?
End Trace Mode for Comment # 178.
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