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Title: State Proposes Bold Law to Treat Pot Like Tobacco And Expunge All Records of Marijuana “Crimes”
Source:
Activist Post
URL Source: http://www.activistpost.com/2016/09 ... -records-marijuana-crimes.html
Published: Sep 27, 2016
Author: Claire Bernish
Post Date: 2016-09-28 07:51:26 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 31005
Comments: 181
Bold legislation introduced in New Jersey last week would not only treat cannabis like tobacco — legalizing it — but would expunge records for individuals previously convicted of certain marijuana-related ‘crimes.’ Should the bill, A4193, pass, convenience stores would be permitted to sell cannabis alongside cigarettes — available to anyone aged 19 and older. “This bill would legalize marijuana by removing all criminal liability associated with marijuana from the New Jersey Code of Criminal Justice … as well as its regulation as a controlled dangerous substance under the New Jersey Controlled Dangerous Substances Act,” the proposed law states. Sponsored by Assemblyman Michael Patrick Carroll — once deemed the state Legislature’s “Most Conservative” member, as the Newark Patch pointed out — the legislation “[l]egalizes marijuana and provides for records expungement for certain past marijuana offenses; treats marijuana products similar to tobacco products, including the use of civil penalties for providing marijuana to persons under 19 years of age.” Carroll’s bill audacious thumbs its nose at the DEA’s vehemently criticized decision this year not to reschedule cannabis from its current inexplicable designation as a dangerous substance of no medical value, akin to heroin or cocaine. “To me it’s just not a big deal,” Carroll told Politico. “It’s already ubiquitous. Anybody who thinks this is somehow going to increase the availability of marijuana has never been 19. If that’s the case, then what’s the big deal about having it available at the local 7-Eleven?” Alcohol, after all, is a standard fixture at convenience stores and gas stations, with store owners facing fines and other civil penalties for underage distribution. “The whole point here is to get the government out of the business of treating at least marijuana use as a crime and treat it instead as a social problem,” Carroll continued, adding he’s never tried cannabis, personally. “You’re talking to the world’s most boring, straightest guy,” he said. “I’ve never popped a pill, never smoked a joint, nothing. I’ve never quite understood the all the allure of this stuff.” Apparently, though, he doesn’t feel his personal views concerning substances should override contrary opinions and choices. On the surface, the right-wing lawmaker would seem the last person sponsoring legislation taking such a radical departure from federal law — but on issues of personal freedom, his stances align most closely with libertarian philosophy. Carroll not only co-sponsored New Jersey’s medical cannabis legislation, in April he proposed lowering the state’s drinking age to 18, saying, according to the Patch, If you’re old enough to make the determination you want to enlist in the Marines, you’re old enough to determine if you want to have a beer. Despite an overwhelming public perception cannabis should at least be decriminalized and growing national disillusionment with the failed drug war — with the resultant largest prison population in the world, gang violence, strengthening of Mexican cartels, epidemic-level police violence, and inability of those in need to get life-saving medical cannabis treatment — the Drug Enforcement Agency opted to maintain marijuana prohibition this year. Should the proposed law indeed pass, New Jersey would join Alaska, Colorado, Washington, and Oregon in legal, recreational weed. In fact, degrees of decriminalization and legalization — mostly for medical use — exist in half the states in the nation. November’s election will likely expand those numbers. Ballot measures could potentially legalize recreational use in varying degrees in California, Nevada, Massachusetts, Arizona, and Nevada — and although they aren’t all expected to pass, the segment of the population arguing against legalization shrinks seemingly by the month. New Jersey lawmakers are attempting a multi-pronged approach to legalizing weed. Another bill, A2068, filed in January by Assemblyman Reed Gusciora — ironically, one of the most liberal members of the state Legislature — and State Sen. Nicholas Scutari would legalize cannabis and treat it akin to alcohol. A third is expected after several legislators, including Gusciora and Scutari, return from an information-gathering field trip examining legalization in Colorado in October. New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie — whom Carroll refers to as “the Fat Man” — will almost certainly veto any legislation concerning cannabis. But his tenure in office draws to a close just over a year from now. “We would like to get the ball rolling, even with this governor and even if he vetoes it, the choice then could be made to put it on the ballot through the Legislature or set the groundwork for the next administration,” Gusciora told Politico. “I think it’s only a matter of time.” Claire Bernish writes for TheFreeThoughtProject.com, where this article first appeared.
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 158.
#71. To: Deckard (#0)
According to the link, the measures are leading everywhere but Arizona. And Trump and Clinton each say it's an issue for the states.
If so, then who's responsible for keeping marijuana in the states?
If so, then who's responsible for keeping marijuana in the states? Why, primarily the states that don't want it - just as responsibility for keeping alcohol out of dry jurisdictions lies primarily with those jurisdictions. Congress has the authority if it so chooses to act against such interstate movement, though not against intrastate commerce. Glad I could clear that up for you.
Did that work with alcohol? I seem to recall that it didn't, and the "dry" states pressured Congress to pass the Webb-Kenyon Act, making it a federal crime. Naturally, that didn't work either, leading to Prohibition. Now you come along saying that it will work with recreational drugs. Or are you saying you know it won't work, but since the U.S. Constitution is a suicide pact, we have to do it?
>>Did that work with alcohol? I seem to recall that it didn't, and the "dry" states pressured Congress Somebody always wants somebody else to pick up the check for their own preferences. According to President Nixon's National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse, "The lack of federal enforcement rendered the statute [the Webb-Kenyon Act] virtually meaningless." It wasn't tried and found wanting - it wasn't seriously tried.
You mean the federal government found it impossible to control 50,000 miles of borders surrounding the 25 "dry" states? But they could if we legalized drugs, huh?
You mean the federal government found it impossible Opposite - they never tried.
But they would if it were drugs. You're delusional.
But they would if it were drugs. Why would they work any less vigorously against federally illegal interstate drug transactions than they do now against federally illegal intrastate drug transactions? And suppose they chose not to: how does that amount to a "suicide pact"?
If they only have authority over interstate transactions, they'd have to be there the moment the drug crossed the border. Either side of the state border is out-of-bounds. "how does that amount to a "suicide pact"?" We both know it wouldn't work. Congress published findings saying it wouldn't work. So to say we should do it anyways is a suicide pact.
Not so - a car with Colorado plates parked in Oklahoma, with a trunk full of marijuana, has broken Oklahoma law, for starters - and has established probable cause to retrace the driver's steps and determine whether a Colorado seller sold him the pot Suicide pacts involve the death of all parties. "Congress published findings" - BFD.
We were discussing federal enforcement of interstate commerce. At least, I thought we were. Are you saying the DEA has the power to enforce Oklahoma law? Doesn't that go against your argument that this should be a state issue? Marijuana is fungible. You can't look at it and say. "That's Colorado pot!" The driver would say to the DEA that it's Oklahoma pot being transported intrastate -- which is beyond their jurisdiction. Can Oklahoma law enforcement arrest this guy for possession? Yes. But again, that's not what we're discussing.
Are you saying the DEA has the power to enforce Oklahoma law? The DEA has the power to turn him over to the state authorities and thereby facilitate the initiation of a federal investigation. Beat that straw man. So have you dropped this "suicide pact" tomfoolery?
If you insist on taking it literally rather than for the expression it is, yeah.
If you insist on taking it literally rather than for the expression it is It's an applicable expression only if outcomes of gravity comparable to that of suicide are in the balance - otherwise it's misleading.
"The Constitution is not a suicide pact" is a common expression and does not mean everyone dies. Get a f**king grip.
"The Constitution is not a suicide pact" is a common expression and does not mean everyone dies. Get a f**king grip. I said "outcomes of gravity comparable". Get some f**king honesty. '"The Constitution is not a suicide pact" is a phrase in American political and legal discourse. The phrase expresses the belief that constitutional restrictions on governmental power must be balanced against the need for survival of the state and its people.' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Constitution_is_not_a_suicide_pact, emphasis added) Get some f**king facts.
That was your definition -- which I don't accept. From the same link: In the 1949 case Terminiello v. City of Chicago, the majority opinion by Justice William O. Douglas overturned the disorderly conduct conviction of a priest whose rantings at a rally had incited a riot. The Court held that Chicago's breach of the peace ordinance violated the First Amendment. Associate Justice Robert Jackson wrote a twenty-four page dissent in response to the Court's four page decision, which concluded: "The choice is not between order and liberty. It is between liberty with order and anarchy without either. There is danger that, if the court does not temper its doctrinaire logic with a little practical wisdom, it will convert the constitutional Bill of Rights into a suicide pact." That was simply a free speech issue.
That was simply a free speech issue. It was a free speech (allegedly) leading to anarchy issue.
Leading to the death of everyone in the US. Got it.
Still beating your straw men. Pathetic - but not surprising.
Suicide pacts involve the death of all parties.
Me: "It's an applicable expression only if outcomes of gravity comparable to that of suicide are in the balance - otherwise it's misleading." Strawbeater.
Then why bring up anarchy? Why not simply say the judge made a misleading statement since the free speech in this case would not lead to outcomes of gravity comparable to that of suicide?
Because anarchy, unlike pot legalization, WOULD lead to a great many deaths (though not of "everyone in the US") - so the judge's use of the term "suicide pact" was, unlike yours, appropriate. As always, glad I could clear that up for you.
Thank you for the clarification. Here I thought that when you said "Suicide pacts involve the death of all parties" you meant ... all parties.
Me: "It's an applicable expression only if outcomes of gravity comparable to that of suicide are in the balance - otherwise it's misleading." Strawbeater.
Pfffft! You don't know what you think.
Since you're slow on the uptake I'll walk you through it: "Suicide pacts involve the death of all parties" addresses the literal accuracy of the phrase and "It's an applicable expression only if outcomes of gravity comparable to that of suicide are in the balance - otherwise it's misleading" addresses the metaphorical accuracy of the phrase. Applying the phrase to pot legalization is neither literally nor metaphorically accurate ... just more of your bunched-panties hysteria.
I agree. It's an accurate idiomatic expression.
It's an applicable expression only if outcomes of gravity comparable to that of suicide are in the balance - otherwise it's misleading.
Only if you take it literally.
No, also if you take it metaphorically or idiomatically.
By definition, an idiom is an expression not interpreted literally. Poor you.
"No, also if you take it metaphorically or idiomatically." By definition, an idiom is an expression not interpreted literally. Hence my "also". Dimwit.
If you "also" took suicide pact idiomatically, you wouldn't be comparing it to suicide. Because an idiom is not taken literally. Don't give me this we weaselly weaselly "also" crap.
Your first sentence doesn't follow from your second; that an idiom is not literal does NOT mean it is completely unrelated to the literal meaning. If Joe and Jim each agree to eat a forkful of rutabaga if the other does, only in a purely humorous sense ought one call that a "suicide pact."
So if I said "Killing two birds with one stone" I must be referring to a murder, a bird or a stone?
So if I said "Killing two birds with one stone" I must be referring to a murder, a bird or a stone? You must be referring to multiple objectives accomplished. How is "suicide pact" nonhumorously applicable even idiomatically to anything whose outcome is orders of magnitude less serious than death? Can you supply examples (not from you or your **** buddy Roscoe) in support of your apparent position that it is so used idiomatically?
Sure. That's a piece of cake. See? I did it again. I already gave you an example in my post #116. And he's referring to people making a pact with a document, not other people. So the phrase, "The U.S. Constitution is not a suicide pact" must be taken as an idiomatic expression.
To which I already replied: 'anarchy, unlike pot legalization, WOULD lead to a great many deaths (though not of "everyone in the US") - so the judge's use of the term "suicide pact" was, unlike yours, appropriate.'
The judge was referring to a "suicide pact" with the Bill of Rights. How can that be "appropriate"? A suicide pact is between people. It's obvious his was an idiomatic expression. As was mine.
Simply false - the judge said 'it will convert the constitutional Bill of Rights into a suicide pact."' The parties to the pact would be the citizenry.
There are no replies to Comment # 158. End Trace Mode for Comment # 158.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestBallot measures could potentially legalize recreational use in varying degrees in California, Nevada, Massachusetts, Arizona, and Nevada — and although they aren’t all expected to pass, the segment of the population arguing against legalization shrinks seemingly by the month.
#73. To: ConservingFreedom (#71)
"it's an issue for the states."
#77. To: misterwhite (#73)
"Trump and Clinton each say it's an issue for the states."
#79. To: ConservingFreedom (#77)
"Why, primarily the states that don't want it - just as responsibility for keeping alcohol out of dry jurisdictions lies primarily with those jurisdictions."
#84. To: misterwhite (#79)
>>"Why, primarily the states that don't want it - just as responsibility for keeping alcohol out of dry jurisdictions lies primarily with those jurisdictions."
to pass the Webb-Kenyon Act, making it a federal crime. Naturally, that didn't work either
#86. To: ConservingFreedom (#84)
"The lack of federal enforcement rendered the statute [the Webb-Kenyon Act] virtually meaningless."
#88. To: misterwhite (#86)
'According to President Nixon's National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse, "The lack of federal enforcement rendered the statute [the Webb-Kenyon Act] virtually meaningless."'
#89. To: ConservingFreedom (#88)
"Opposite - they never tried."
#90. To: misterwhite (#89)
"Opposite - they never tried."
#91. To: ConservingFreedom (#90)
"Why would they work any less vigorously against federally illegal interstate drug transactions than they do now against federally illegal intrastate drug transactions?"
#92. To: misterwhite (#91)
If they only have authority over interstate transactions, they'd have to be there the moment the drug crossed the border. Either side of the state border is out-of-bounds.
"how does that amount to a "suicide pact"?"
We both know it wouldn't work. Congress published findings saying it wouldn't work.
So to say we should do it anyways is a suicide pact.
#93. To: ConservingFreedom (#92)
(Edited)
"with a trunk full of marijuana, has broken Oklahoma law, for starters"
#96. To: misterwhite (#93)
"with a trunk full of marijuana, has broken Oklahoma law, for starters [DECEPTIVELY OMITTED BY MISTERWHITE:] - and has established probable cause to retrace the driver's steps and determine whether a Colorado seller sold him the pot"
look at it and say. "That's Colorado pot!"
"how does that amount to a "suicide pact"?"
We both know it wouldn't work. Congress published findings saying it wouldn't work.
So to say we should do it anyways is a suicide pact.
"Suicide pacts involve the death of all parties."
[crickets]
#100. To: ConservingFreedom (#96)
"So have you dropped this "suicide pact" tomfoolery?"
#105. To: misterwhite (#100)
"So have you dropped this "suicide pact" tomfoolery?"
#108. To: ConservingFreedom (#105)
"It's an applicable expression only if outcomes of gravity comparable to that of suicide are in the balance - otherwise it's misleading."
#112. To: misterwhite (#108)
"It's an applicable expression only if outcomes of gravity comparable to that of suicide are in the balance - otherwise it's misleading."
#116. To: ConservingFreedom (#112)
"I said "outcomes of gravity comparable".
#117. To: misterwhite (#116)
Associate Justice Robert Jackson wrote a twenty-four page dissent in response to the Court's four page decision, which concluded: "The choice is not between order and liberty. It is between liberty with order and anarchy without either. There is danger that, if the court does not temper its doctrinaire logic with a little practical wisdom, it will convert the constitutional Bill of Rights into a suicide pact."
#119. To: ConservingFreedom (#117)
"It was a free speech (allegedly) leading to anarchy issue."
#120. To: misterwhite (#119)
the death of everyone in the US
#121. To: ConservingFreedom (#120)
"the death of everyone in the US"
"Still beating your straw men."
-- ConservingFreedom
#122. To: misterwhite (#121)
#123. To: ConservingFreedom (#122)
#124. To: misterwhite (#123)
Then why bring up anarchy? Why not simply say the judge made a misleading statement since the free speech in this case would not lead to outcomes of gravity comparable to that of suicide?
#125. To: ConservingFreedom (#124)
"WOULD lead to a great many deaths (though not of "everyone in the US")
#126. To: misterwhite (#125)
#127. To: ConservingFreedom (#126)
#128. To: misterwhite (#127)
#129. To: ConservingFreedom (#128)
"Applying the phrase to pot legalization is neither literally nor metaphorically accurate ..."
#130. To: misterwhite (#129)
#131. To: ConservingFreedom (#130)
It's an applicable expression only if outcomes of gravity comparable to that of suicide are in the balance
#132. To: misterwhite (#131)
#133. To: ConservingFreedom (#132)
No, also if you take it metaphorically or idiomatically.
#134. To: misterwhite (#133)
Only if you take it literally.
#135. To: ConservingFreedom (#134)
#138. To: misterwhite (#135)
If you "also" took suicide pact idiomatically, you wouldn't be comparing it to suicide. Because an idiom is not taken literally.
#139. To: ConservingFreedom (#138)
"that an idiom is not literal does NOT mean it is completely unrelated to the literal meaning."
#141. To: misterwhite (#139)
(Edited)
'that an idiom is not literal does NOT mean it is completely unrelated to the literal meaning. If Joe and Jim each agree to eat a forkful of rutabaga if the other does, only in a purely humorous sense ought one call that a "suicide pact."'
#145. To: ConservingFreedom (#141)
"Can you supply examples (not from you or your **** buddy Roscoe) in support of your apparent position that it is so used idiomatically?"
#148. To: misterwhite (#145)
I already gave you an example in my post #116.
#155. To: ConservingFreedom (#148)
"so the judge's use of the term "suicide pact" was, unlike yours, appropriate.'
#158. To: misterwhite (#155)
The judge was referring to a "suicide pact" with the Bill of Rights.
Replies to Comment # 158.
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