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Title: Oakland Cops Uncover Dead Colleague's Fling With Underage Sex Worker, Make Sure to Get Her Number for Themselves
Source:
Reason
URL Source: https://reason.com/blog/2016/06/29/ ... ex-trafficking-when-cops-do-it
Published: Jun 29, 2016
Author: Elizabeth Nolan Brown
Post Date: 2016-07-01 09:53:13 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 10026
Comments: 49
The young woman at the center of a scandal shaking multiple California police departments has revealed new and damning facts about the situation. Celeste Guap, 18, claims to have had sex with more than 30 Bay Area police officers in exchange for cash, tips about upcoming prostitution stings, and protection from prosecution. Things allegedly started when she was still a minor and met Oakland officer Brendan O'Brien in the course of fleeing an abusive pimp. According to Guap, she and O'Brien began having sex in February 2015. "We [would] tell each other you're my only, you know, like that, but he knew what it was," she told ABC 7 in a recent interview. O'Brien's wife had died the previous year in what had been ruled a suicide but some suspected O'Brien of being involved in. Guap told the TV station that in September 2015, she celebrated her 18th birthday by traveling to Puerto Rico, where she found herself alone in a "rough area" and called O'Brien for help. He didn't pick up. She threatened to expose him for sleeping with her when she was still 17 and, when he still didn't respond, she did it, sending a text to a commanding officer at OPD detailing her relationship with O'Brien and several other OPD officers. She then sent a screenshot of the text to O'Brien. A few hours later, O'Brien committed suicide. "Guap appears to have some guilt about this, and perhaps some anger toward the dozens of other officers who contacted her for sex over the ensuing months," SFist reports. I don't know about you, but if my colleague had killed himself after being threatened with exposure by a teen sex worker, my impulse would be, at least, to avoid her. OPD officers, however, thought otherwise. Not only did those alerted to O'Brien and Guap's relationship not report it, they began allegedly contacting Guap—the daughter of an OPD dispatcher—for sex themselves. Guap said she eventually began sleeping with cops from neighboring areas, too, including Alameda County and San Francisco. She turned over an array of cell phone records to various departments to corroborate her claims. Since these allegations came out, two OPD officers resigned and three more were placed on administrative leave pending investigation. The Alameda County Sheriff's Office investigated four offiers, but determined that because Guap was 18 at the time they slept with her and they did not pay her in cash, no wrongdoing was involved. In total, Guap claims to have slept with 32 members of local law enforcement, although she claims only three paid her. The rest she slept with for information and protection from arrest, said Guap, who mostly did street-based sex work. I don't mean to deny Guap's agency, but when your choices are have sex with someone or get thrown in jail... It might not be rape as we commonly think of it, but it's sure as hell—if nothing else—an abuse of authority. It's coercion. And it's a direct result of the criminalization of prostitution, a system that seems to benefit no one but corrupt cops and violent sex traffickers. While all of this was happening with Guap, the Oakland and Alameda County police departments were very public crusaders against prostitution. In the first six months of 2014, Oakland police made 295 arrests related to prostitution and conducted 30 prostitution stings. "We don't have a lot of resources," said OPD Luitenenant Kevin Wiley at the time. "But the ones we have, we dedicate 110 percent." The city even ran billboards featuring the mugshots of men who were arrested for attempting to pay for sex. Another series of recent Oakland city billboards featured slogans such as: "Buying a teen for sex is child abuse. Turning a blind eye is neglect." "Buying a teen for sex is child abuse," warned Oakland city billboards as its police force passed around a teenager for sex.
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#7. To: Deckard (#6)
Who says? Oh yeah. She said that. And we know prostitutes never lie. The sign was posted in response to the cops paying her for sex after she turned 18. "If nothing else this demonstrates the blatant hypocrisy practiced by this and most other police departments - laws are only for the serfs." If nothing else this demonstrates blatant hypocrisy -- yours. You're the big defender of consensual sex between adults. But not for everyone, huh?
LOL! Non auro, sed ferro, recuperando est patria
Learn to read:
No, they were far more likely either democrats or republicans.
The crap you reposted is not the official LP platform, but instead the opinion of a single person. BTW, are you a Democrat or Republican? I want to find some similar crap stated by someone from your party. I'll have an easier task than you. If you are serious about critiquing the official LP platform, here's a link: www.lp.org/files/2016%20LP%20Platform%20.pdf As in relates to the subject of this thread: Don't engage in libel, Gatlin. It's poor form.
And we know cops don't commit suicide when falsely accused, either.
So you're saying that's when the sign went up?
So you're saying that's when the sign went up? Are you saying that once a sexually exploited minor becomes an adult, the crime of that exploitation expires?
It's hardly consensual when an armed agent of the state threatens a woman with arrest if she doesn't put out. I'm saying that once a sexually exploited minor becomes an adult, you don't put up a sign calling her a child.
So you've ruled out any possibility that she offered sex in exchange for being let go?
So noted. With that settled, do you defend the actions of cops when they have sex with minors?
I don't defend the actions of any adult, male or female, when they have sex with children.
Very good. But the topic was about cops having sex with minors, and I note your response doesn't mention cops. Are cops excluded from this rule, or included?
Since I said any adult, that would include cops, firemen, priests, teachers, parents, relatives, neighbors and strangers.
Thanks for saying so. I'm guessing that was difficult for you. Well done.
You stated: "Only you [misterwhite] would defend cops that do this." I then asked you: "Has it been proven cops did this?" I noted for you that the article is based entirely on "claims" by Guap ... I repeat, "claims." I can't find where you responded to my post. Therefore, I will continue and now as: Have you ever tried not to pass judgement on something or someone when you don’t have the facts? I realize this can be very difficult for some people. Because it’s the almost human nature for some folks to form an instant solidifying opinion, and make a snap judgment, about almost everything without stopping to consider what they are opining about and judging on may be a lie.
A few hours later, O'Brien committed suicide. "Guap appears to have some guilt about this, and perhaps some anger toward the dozens of other officers who contacted her for sex over the ensuing months," I'd contend that the cop committing suicide before the truth came out about his "relationship" with Guap would be compelling evidence that she's telling the truth. O'Brien's wife had died the previous year in what had been ruled a suicide but some suspected O'Brien of being involved in. But then again, it's possible that he killed his wife and felt guilty about that. Or a combination of the two. Attaboy! I don't know about you, but if my colleague had killed himself after being threatened with exposure by a teen sex worker, my impulse would be, at least, to avoid her. OPD officers, however, thought otherwise. Not only did those alerted to O'Brien and Guap's relationship not report it, they began allegedly contacting Guap—the daughter of an OPD dispatcher—for sex themselves. Guap said she eventually began sleeping with cops from neighboring areas, too, including Alameda County and San Francisco. She turned over an array of cell phone records to various departments to corroborate her claims. Let’s take time to notice how this “agenda driven author” carefully lays out a planned sequence wording to process and channel a reader’s thoughts in his attention getting opener. The author in his opening sentence lays out his strongest “hammer blow to a reader’s brain” and then “hits him or her between the eyes” by saying the young woman has revealed NEW and DAMING facts. Zap … Zap … Zap!!! The author now has some gullible folks hooked and they will “read over” the wording in the next sentence showing “claims” and the third sentence showing “allegedly” because they have already mentally convicted some cops and cannot wait to jump on the thread and start posting blanket condemnations. Gawd, I hate yellow journalism authors and despise those who take author’s agenda bait “hook, line and sinker.”
How do you know they were having anything to do with her? Oh, of course ... she "claims" they did, so you know they did. Got it!!!
Oh, shit ... there is that "word" again. Quickly, now ... all cop-haters mentally block that "word" from your mind.
Can you find any post where I concluded the cop was guilty? Passing judgement on the act of cops having sex with minors is not the same thing. In fact, we apparently agree that that's wrong, embarrassing as that might be for you to be in agreement with a libertarian about something. I don't know if the cop was guilty or not, but people who are falsely accused of a crime generally don't respond by killing themselves. His suicide, if that's what it was, serves somewhat as a confession of guilt. True. You seem to be speaking from experience.
If it is "possible that he did something" ... is it not "possible that he did not?" Shhh ... let's don't confuse the minds of the cop=haters.
You are switching the discussion from a positive form (meaning the article is a positive because it exists, not the information in it is positive) and generalize in the abstract. If that is what you are doing, then I can of course agree with your open ended “generalized” statement. BOOM … BAM … BOOM! We are absolutely in total agreement on this point. Ah, but wait for the qualifier … I know it is coming. You indicated earlier that you have not concluded the cop was guilty, and I agreed that you had not. But at this point, I ask: Are you now making an assumptive judgment of guilt with your “somewhat” confession olf guilt statement?” It does appear that you are. If not, then what are you saying? [Pinguinite]: True. You seem to be speaking from experience.
He killed himself. Can you see any other reason why he did that? Oh, shit ... there is that "word" again. Oh - the "cell phone records (she turned over to) various departments to corroborate her claims" are "alleged? Why did he kill himself? Quickly, now ... all cop-haters Seems to me the cop worshipers are doing what they always do - defend a corrupt cop and the rest of the scumbags who were involved in a criminal, sordid incident. From the article : Since these allegations came out, two OPD officers resigned and three more were placed on administrative leave pending investigation. Let me guess - the two who resigned just suddenly felt the need to quit and the ones under investigation are innocent victims. Is that how you see it? He had inoperable cancer? Diagnosed with AIDS? Owed money to the mob? What did the suicide note say? He did leave one, right? I mean, if it really was a suicide.
I am an “Unaffiliated Conservative Voter.” Some folks like to say that means I am an “Independent Voter” … but I hate the “Independent” portion of the term, because what I vote on or whom I vote for is “dependent” on any number of strict considerations. Because I am a child of the depression born in the South, that is a starting point I can attribute it to, I hold closely to traditional conservative attitudes and values while viewing change and innovation with caution … especially in politics and religion. I embrace some aspects of the Republican Philosophy, the “sane” parts of the Libertarian Philosophy and none of the Democrat Philosophy that I can think of at this time. I have been described by those associated with me as “being objective to a fault.” I read and listen to all source of information from all sides of the political spectrum, for which I am often criticized for doing so while posting some of the liberal articles here. There have been “attempts” to ostracize me to Antarctica for reading and posting articles from SPLC by some narrow-minded individual who are closed-loop thinkers. One of the many things I learned during the year I spent at the USAF Air Command and Staff College (the second highest command and leadership school in the Air Force where only the top 10% of USAF officers are selected to attend) was to “know your enemy.” One of my favorite self-motivational phrases I use is from the move Patton where George C. Scott as Patton said during a tank battle: “Rommel...you magnificent bastard, I read your book!" I kinda vented here, but it was for a good cause … I wanted to give you all background (sans any personal information) you should have available to make your task of provoking me with “similar crap” as easy as possible for you. After all, I am a considerate person and full of empathy for those who strive to do a perfect job. I trust this information will be of some help to you and I wish you well. Good Day, Sir.
No. Until I find "factual reasons" ... unlike you, I will make no assumptions that are strictly hate motivated.
There are six commonly listed reasons a person commits suicide. I don't know which of those reasons caused his suicide ... neither do you? Stop with the "subtle" innuendos ... stay with facts. If facts are not available ... stop speculating.
I prefer that you do not. why do you have an overpowering urgent need to "guess" anything? Why can't you simply look for, or wait until the facts come out ... why?
No, and neither can you see the reason he did that. It is a shame that you continue to engage in uncontrolled speculation. This insatiable desire is probably the reason you are a die hard CT freak.
It's not the posting of articles from leftist sites that are a problem - it's the fact that you agree with the crap they post. The most recent example is the HuffPo "libertarians suck" screed that you posted. Oh, and who can forget you siding with the SPLC when you posted numerous anti-Ron Paul pieces and leftist propaganda condemning patriots penned by that reprehensible organization and stinking up Liberty Post in the process. Don't try and pretend you're objective - no one here is going to believe you. No, and neither can you see the reason he did that. Yeah - just a coincidence that he decided to do it right before he was going to be exposed. Seriously man? Un-freaking believable. I am not saying it is and I am not saying it is not. All I am saying is that I do no speculate. Of course, you can and you will continue to do so.
I can understand how someone might possibly reach that conclusion based on the wording of the article posted here; however, that does not appear to be correct according to a report dated January 10, 2014. See http://oaklandlocal.com/2014/01/...ct-clear-channel-outdoor/ That report says, "Seven huge billboards were installed this week [meaning, the week of January 19, 2014] on Clear Channel properties on well-traveled highways and roads – the I-80 and 580 interchange, 980, Martin Luther King Boulevard – as a donation to the cause. 'Buying a teen for sex is child abuse. Turning a blind eye is neglect' reads another billboard." The article posted here says, "According to Guap, she and O'Brien began having sex in February 2015;" and, later, it adds, "Guap told the TV station that in September 2015, she celebrated her 18th birthday by traveling to Puerto Rico...;" and, that she began having sex with many cops other than O'Brien after that trip. So, if that is an accurate depiction of what Guap said; and, assuming what she said is factual, the placement of the signs in question could not have been a "response to the cops paying her for sex after she turned 18;" because, said signs had been in use since January of 2014. I also noticed the following statement by the author of the article posted here: "I don't mean to deny Guap's agency, but when your choices are have sex with someone or get thrown in jail... It might not be rape as we commonly think of it, but it's sure as hell—if nothing else—an abuse of authority. It's coercion. And it's a direct result of the criminalization of prostitution, a system that seems to benefit no one but corrupt cops and violent sex traffickers." In other words, if prostitution were legal, the potential for such choices would not exist and there would be no resulting abuse of authority and/or coercion. That is not the first time this author has expressed a favorable view toward legalizing prostitution (and drug use). In the article linked to below, she says, "Just to recap, the only reason sex workers and drug users need warrant excessive police intervention is because we have unnecessarily criminalized these people." See reason.com/blog/2016/06/1...ops-crackdown-on-sex-work In another article, she says, "...it's hard not to notice that the people we empower to sanction sexual deviance and protect others from sexual abuse are some of the worst perpetrators of sexual violence and exploitation. Sure, these bad actors might just be highly visible outliers; this is a big country with a whole lot of police officers who don't misbehave. But many of these cases coincide with otherwise problematic parts of our criminal justice system—the war on drugs, criminalization of prostitution, erosion of due process, the tendency of police departments and prosecutors to protect their own—and highlight how these flaws make it easier for corrupt cops to harass, intimidate, and abuse people, especially those in the most precarious social positions." See reason.com/blog/2016/06/1...al-violence-and-the-state Note that all emphasis in above quotes was added by me. She even wrote one entire article seemingly for the sole purpose of sarcastically belittling cops for arresting prostitutes... See reason.com/blog/2016/06/2...fficking-bust-ever-for-mc So, her preference for legalizing prostitution as well as her prejudice against cops who arrest prostitutes in favor of the prostitutes themselves is pretty clear. That, along with her at least somewhat misrepresentation of the facts in the article posted here is enough to reasonably think she might have a conflict of interest and therefore might not be credible.
Four things therein stand out to me which lead to some interesting questions/speculation... First, before going to Puerto Rico, she was an underage whore in Oakland, California, a known hotbed of sex trafficking of underage girls; and, by the time she took her celebratory trip there, she had been whoring for at least a few years. How much rougher can any place in Puerto Rico be than what she was used to in Oakland; and, if such a place does exist there, didn't she have the street smarts to either be prepared to protect herself or to simply not go there alone? Second, she was in Puerto Rico. O'Brien was presumably approximately 3,000 miles away in Oakland, California. Exactly what did she expect him to do even IF she had managed to reach him by phone? Third, the way the article is written indicates that O'Brien and "several other OPD officers" were the only cops she was having sex with (actually, there were only four, including O'Brien) until after her trip to Puerto Rico. So, how did she have the phone number of that OPD commanding officer so conveniently handy while in Puerto Rico; unless, he was also one of her LEO regulars while still underage? Fourth, according to the way the article is written, ALL of those "several other OPD officers" were sexually active with the same underage whore who apparently chose to call only O'Brien for help and subsequently threatened only him for not responding. However, exposing him, would likely lead to all of them being exposed (at least some of them were in fact exposed); and, when she sent the text to the commanding officer who was also likely to have been involved with her (again, how else did she so conveniently have his phone number?), he would know he was probably going to be exposed, too; UNLESS, O'Brien was termina..., I mean, committed suicide... OR... The age of consent in California just happens to be 18. In the above article, Guap hinted that O'Brien may have gotten a little too possessive of her; and, more evidence of that can be found here: http://abc7news.com/news/i-team-...scandal-revealed/1404428/ Did he decide that since she had become "legal," he wanted her all for himself and felt safe enough to ask her to marry him? Bring overly possessive of her, he would probably also be insanely jealous of her other LEO regulars; and, if she refused his proposal, he may have been the one who threatened to blow the whistle on the whole sorry affair; including, her and all of her other LEO regulars. Was that the real reason she took off to Puerto Rico and called O'Brien's commanding officer from there; and, did that OPD commanding officer "fix the problem himself?" Is that the reason he apparently still remains unnamed and uncharged? If Guap just wanted to celebrate her 18th birthday, there are a lot of places a lot closer to Oakland, CA than Puerto Rico; but, if you're running away from something, anywhere 3,000 miles away is an excellent place to be... I think there is probably more to this story than we're being told by the girl or this author...
Thank you for the comprehensive and detailed presentation of pertinent information in these two posts along with your commentary on the objectivity, or seemingly lack thereof, of the author. You and chan are two individuals I can place great confidence in to objectively furnish factual and detailed information. You both set high standards I will proudly use for a performance pattern and goal setting.
Very good post. She is a whore, that is a far more descriptive than the newspeak term of someone engaged in "street-based sex work" employed by the author. O'Brien may well have learned the hard way that you cannot turn a whore into a housewife. Non auro, sed ferro, recuperando est patria
You're both very welcome. Your kind words are also very much appreciated; as, such posts often represent hours of research and time devoted to organizing my findings and thoughts, typing it up, and editing to correct my awful typing.
Comments (48 - 49) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest"Apparently she was underage when it began."
#8. To: Gatlin (#3)
Maybe the cops were all libertarians.
#9. To: misterwhite (#5)
The sign was intentionally misleading. She was 18 and selling sex. That's prostitution, not "child" abuse.
Things allegedly started when she was still a minor and met Oakland officer Brendan O'Brien in the course of fleeing an abusive pimp.
#10. To: Gatlin (#3)
Maybe the cops were all libertarians.
#11. To: Gatlin (#3)
1.4 Personal Relationships
....
Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships.
1.6 Parental Rights
Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs. This statement shall not be construed to condone child abuse or neglect.
#12. To: misterwhite (#7)
Who says? Oh yeah. She said that. And we know prostitutes never lie.
#13. To: Pinguinite (#9)
"Things allegedly started when she was still a minor and met Oakland officer Brendan O'Brien in the course of fleeing an abusive pimp."
#14. To: misterwhite (#13)
#15. To: misterwhite (#7)
You're the big defender of consensual sex between adults.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
#16. To: Pinguinite (#14)
"Are you saying that once a sexually exploited minor becomes an adult, the crime of that exploitation expires?"
#17. To: Deckard (#15)
"It's hardly consensual when an armed agent of the state threatens a woman with arrest if she doesn't put out."
#18. To: misterwhite (#16)
I'm saying that once a sexually exploited minor becomes an adult, you don't put up a sign calling her a child.
#19. To: Pinguinite (#18)
"With that settled, do you defend the actions of cops when they have sex with minors?"
#20. To: misterwhite (#19)
I don't defend the actions of any adult, male or female, when they have sex with children.
#21. To: Pinguinite (#20)
"Are cops excluded from this rule, or included?"
#22. To: misterwhite (#21)
Since I said any adult, that would include cops...
#23. To: Pinguinite, misterwhite (#4)
#24. To: Gatlin, Pinguinite, misterwhite (#23)
She threatened to expose him for sleeping with her when she was still 17 and, when he still didn't respond, she did it, sending a text to a commanding officer at OPD detailing her relationship with O'Brien and several other OPD officers. She then sent a screenshot of the text to O'Brien.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
#25. To: Gatlin (#23)
I noted for you that the article is based entirely on "claims" by Guap ... I repeat, "claims."
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
#26. To: All (#23)
The young woman at the center of a scandal shaking multiple California police departments has revealed new and damning facts about the situation. Celeste Guap, 18, claims to have had sex with more than 30 Bay Area police officers in exchange for cash, tips about upcoming prostitution stings, and protection from prosecution. Things allegedly started when she was still a minor and met Oakland officer Brendan O'Brien in the course of fleeing an abusive pimp.
#27. To: Deckard (#25)
I don't know about you, but if my colleague had killed himself after being threatened with exposure by a teen sex worker, my impulse would be, at least, to avoid her.
#28. To: Deckard (#25)
"allegedly"
#29. To: Gatlin (#23)
I noted for you that the article is based entirely on "claims" by Guap ... I repeat, "claims."
I can't find where you responded to my post.
I realize this can be very difficult for some people. Because it’s the almost human nature for some folks to form an instant solidifying opinion, and make a snap judgment, about almost everything without stopping to consider what they are opining about and judging on may be a lie.
#30. To: Deckard (#24)
But then again, it's possible ...
#31. To: Pinguinite (#29)
Can you find any post where I concluded the cop was guilty?
Nope. Passing judgement on the act of cops having sex with minors is not the same thing. In fact, we apparently agree that that's wrong, embarrassing as that might be for you to be in agreement with a libertarian about something.
I don't know if the cop was guilty or not …
… but people who are falsely accused of a crime generally don't respond by killing themselves. His suicide, if that's what it was, serves somewhat as a confession of guilt.
[Gatlin]: I realize this can be very difficult for some people. Because it’s the almost human nature for some folks to form an instant solidifying opinion, and make a snap judgment, about almost everything without stopping to consider what they are opining about and judging on may be a lie.
Yea, it was somewhat difficult for me … until I attained the age of 6. I then decided that it was not smart to form an instant solidifying opinion and make a snap judgment. Consequently, I am now devoting time and effort to convince those who consider themselves to be “mature educated adults” to stop making snap judgments on something that may be a lie.
#32. To: Gatlin (#30)
If it is "possible that he did something" ... is it not "possible that he did not?"
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
#33. To: Gatlin (#28)
(Edited)
"allegedly"
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
#34. To: Deckard (#32)
"He killed himself. Can you see any other reason why he did that?"
#35. To: Pinguinite (#11)
BTW, are you a Democrat or Republican? I want to find some similar crap stated by someone from your party. I'll have an easier task than you.
#36. To: Deckard (#33)
(Edited)
Is that how you see it?
#37. To: Deckard (#33)
Why did he kill himself?
#38. To: Deckard (#33)
Let me guess ..'
#39. To: Deckard (#32)
He killed himself. Can you see any other reason why he did that?
#40. To: Gatlin (#35)
I read and listen to all source of information from all sides of the political spectrum, for which I am often criticized for doing so while posting some of the liberal articles here.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
#41. To: Gatlin (#39)
He killed himself. Can you see any other reason why he did that?
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
#42. To: Deckard (#41)
Yeah - just a coincidence ...
#43. To: misterwhite (#7)
The sign was posted in response to the cops paying her for sex after she turned 18.
#44. To: Deckard, misterwhite, Pinguinite, Gatlin, nativist nationalist (#0)
(Edited)
Excerpt from the article: "Guap told the TV station that in September 2015, she celebrated her 18th birthday by traveling to Puerto Rico, where she found herself alone in a "rough area" and called O'Brien for help. He didn't pick up. She threatened to expose him for sleeping with her when she was still 17 and, when he still didn't respond, she did it, sending a text to a commanding officer at OPD detailing her relationship with O'Brien and several other OPD officers. She then sent a screenshot of the text to O'Brien."
#45. To: packrat1145, nolu chan (#44)
#46. To: packrat1145 (#44)
I think there is probably more to this story than we're being told by the girl or this author...
#47. To: Gatlin, nativist nationalist (#45)
.
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