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U.S. Constitution
See other U.S. Constitution Articles

Title: US Senator: Get rid of due process — it’s “killing us”
Source: HotAir.Com
URL Source: http://hotair.com/archives/2016/06/ ... of-due-process-its-killing-us/
Published: Jun 19, 2016
Author: Ed Morrissey
Post Date: 2016-06-19 13:42:35 by Stoner
Keywords: None
Views: 961
Comments: 12

So much for the oath to uphold the Constitution, eh? “Due process is what’s killing us right now,” said Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV) on Morning Joe today in pushing for a bill to use secret watch lists to deny Americans civil rights. In place of due process, Manchin proposes a five-year suspension of civil rights and surveillance when the FBI fails to find anything wrong after “suspicion” arises … just to be safe, of course (via Stephen Green at Instapundit):

.@Sen_JoeManchin: Due process is what's killing us right now https://t.co/OTf9LnxHXZ

— Morning Joe (@Morning_Joe) June 16, 2016

In fact, Manchin admits that the watch-list ban wouldn’t have worked to prevent the Orlando shooter from purchasing weapons, because the FBI had already taken him off those lists. That’s why Manchin proposes that the government simply remove civil rights for five years from anyone who’s been under FBI investigation:

MANCHIN: Really, the firewall we have right now is due process. It’s all due process. So we can all say we want the same thing, but how do we get there? If a person is on a terrorist watch list, like the gentleman, the shooter in Orlando? He was twice by the FBI — we were briefed yesterday about what happened — but that young man was brought in twice. They did everything they could. The FBI did everything they were supposed to do. But there was no way to keep him on the nix list or keep him off the gun-buy list, there was no way to do that.

So can’t we say that if a person’s under suspicion there should be a five-year period of time that we have to see if good behavior, if this person continues the same traits? Maybe we can come to that type of an agreement, but due process is what’s killing us right now.

What interesting times in which we live! Who would have guessed that we’d hear demands to demolish due process from liberals — and on national television? (Hint: Everyone, eventually.) Manchin doesn’t just want a watch-list ban — he wants law enforcement to decide who gets to exercise civil rights, and when.

If Manchin’s so keen on suspending explicit constitutional rights on the basis of suspicion, can we also eliminate the Fourth Amendment and conduct warrantless raids on people whom police suspect of being criminals? How about suspending the Fifth Amendment for people suspected of taking part in criminal conspiracies, or bypassing the Sixth Amendment rights to confront witnesses and defend one’s self in a court?

Actually, Manchin’s proposal would violate most of those, in one form or another, along with the Second Amendment.

Here’s a better idea — let’s allow the executive branch to seize the records of legislators that they think might be corrupt or undermining America. Let’s start with Joe Manchin! Who needs that pesky Constitution, anyway? It’s killing us, man! Official suspicion is so much better than due process, at least for those who aren’t the target of it.

This is precisely the slippery slope I warned about in my column for The Week:

The American system of justice relies on core principles based on a fundamental understanding of natural law. First, the Constitution exists to restrain government from encroaching on the rights of its sovereign citizens. Second, each citizen retains those civil rights unless a jury of their peers convicts them of violating the law. Third, each citizen is entitled to due process and a presumption of innocence from the government until conviction.

In the wake of the Orlando shooting, the familiar rush to use the no-fly and terror watch lists as a bar to owning a firearm violates every single one of these principles. …

In this proposal, Clinton and her allies call for an end to due process before denying citizens their constitutional right to bear arms. This is a far more fundamental issue than debating over which firearms to bar from private ownership; it strikes at the fundamental relationship between citizens and the government that exists to serve their liberty interests. Once those principles have been discarded for political expediency on the mere basis of official suspicion, no rights — whether natural or declared — will ever be safe again.

Joe Manchin let the mask slip today. Let’s hope that wakes up the rest of the country, before they find themselves the target of “suspicion” and spend five years — or the rest of their lives — dealing with the consequences of a government unmoored from due process.


My family in West Virginia have been warning about this SOB for a long time. Many of their friends are Union member demonturds. This will be a shock to the union demonturds.

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#1. To: Stoner (#0)

all
liberals
are
angling
for
a
mobocracy

doing
away
with
the
constitution

is
just
a
drive
thru
late
night
bbq

on
the
way
to
the
slaughter

love
boris

ps

dieversity

If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !

BorisY  posted on  2016-06-19   13:57:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Stoner (#0)

I agree, five of us ere having coffee, Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV) name was mentioned as a traitor, we tried him found him guilty and have ordered his death by firing squad.

We don't need no stinkin Due Process.

Well maybe not a firing squard but we did find Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV) guilty of being an imbecile. < /sarcasm>

Elected and unelected Bureaucrats, leeches, and cockroaches are all part of the same family in the animal kingdom.

BobCeleste  posted on  2016-06-19   15:40:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Stoner (#0)

I would like to remind people that demoncrats and progressives are not liberals.

They are Socialist/Fascist. They believe in you do as they say or they will punish you or kill you!

Liberals are let it be do as you wish as long as you do not physically hurt others.

Justified  posted on  2016-06-19   19:09:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Stoner (#0)

So can’t we say that if a person’s under suspicion there should be a five-year period of time that we have to see if good behavior, if this person continues the same traits? Maybe we can come to that type of an agreement, but due process is what’s killing us right now.

An Italian had it figured out centuries ago.

False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that it has no remedy for evils, except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are of such a nature. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

On Crimes and Punishments by the Italian Cesare Bonesana-Beccaria, original in Italian, 1764.

nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-19   19:15:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: nolu chan (#4)

Wise words !

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

if you look around, we have gone so far down the the rat hole, the almighty is going to have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah, if we don't have a judgement come down on us.

President Obama is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people. --Clint Eastwood

"I am concerned for the security of our great nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within." -- General Douglas MacArthur

Stoner  posted on  2016-06-19   19:50:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: nolu chan (#4)

An Italian had it figured out centuries ago.

False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that it has no remedy for evils, except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are of such a nature. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. On Crimes and Punishments by the Italian Cesare Bonesana-Beccaria, original in Italian, 1764.

nolu chan

Odd quote you posted, since you've been arguing with me a LONG time, contending that our States have the power to regulate/restrict our 2nd Amendment rights.

How do you plead?

tpaine  posted on  2016-06-19   19:57:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Stoner, Y'ALL, And all you Canary Klan members (#0) (Edited)

The American system of justice relies on core principles based on a fundamental understanding of natural law. First, the Constitution exists to restrain government from encroaching on the rights of its sovereign citizens. Second, each citizen retains those civil rights unless a jury of their peers convicts them of violating the law. Third, each citizen is entitled to due process and a presumption of innocence from the government until conviction.

" The Constitution exists to restrain government from encroaching on the rights of its sovereign citizens."

The Canary Klan members on LF have demonstrated lately that they do not agree with the above, --in their efforts to prove that our States are not obligated to honor the BOR'S. -- They claim that States are restrained by their own state constitutions, thus California, for instance, can ban assault rifles, or the right to carry concealed arms.

This is insane liberalism, IMHO.

Or as is said above: ---

I would like to remind people that demoncrats and progressives are not liberals. --- They are Socialist/Fascist.

tpaine  posted on  2016-06-19   20:27:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Justified (#3)

" demoncrats and progressives are not liberals.

They are Socialist/Fascist. They believe in you do as they say or they will punish you or kill you! "

Maybe that is why they want to confiscate peoples guns.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

if you look around, we have gone so far down the the rat hole, the almighty is going to have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah, if we don't have a judgement come down on us.

President Obama is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people. --Clint Eastwood

"I am concerned for the security of our great nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within." -- General Douglas MacArthur

Stoner  posted on  2016-06-20   10:41:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Stoner, BobCeleste, Justified, *Bang List* (#0)

No-Fly List, No Guns: Trump Agrees with Obama, Clinton. He Thinks the NRA Should, Too.

This is the same position as Trump. He wants to keep people on the "no fly list" from buying guns, with no due process involved.

So everything that's been said about demonturds, libtards, etc. also applies to your R cult leader, Donald J. Trump, the NYC progressive. He has the same disregard for due process and the Bill of Rights as Manchin (D-WV).

Keep cheer-leading and waving your pom-poms until Trump comes for your guns! /s


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2016-06-20   13:34:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: hondo68 (#9)

This is the same position as Trump. He wants to keep people on the "no fly list" from buying guns, with no due process involved.

It would be unconstitutional as a Federal law, or as an Agency regulation. It is feelgood stuff for public consumption, but legally unsustainable. It's election year. Tell the people what they want to hear.

Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 627-28 (2008), Opinion of the Court:

It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service — M-16 rifles and the like — may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment's ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.

The right to keep and bear an M-16 rifle, and the like, has specifically been upheld as part of the right to keep and bear arms.

The right is enforceable against the States pursuant to the 14th Amendment due process clause.

McDonald, 561 U.S. 742 (2010)

Opinion of the Court 754:

The Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment, originally applied only to the Federal Government. In Barron ex rel. Tiernan v. Mayor of Baltimore, 7 Pet. 243 (1833), the Court, in an opinion by Chief Justice Marshall, explained that this question was “of great importance” but “not of much difficulty.” Id., at 247. In less than four pages, the Court firmly rejected the proposition that the first eight Amendments operate as limitations on the States, holding that they apply only to the Federal Government. See also Lessee of Livingston v. Moore, 7 Pet. 469, 551–552 (1833) (“[I]t is now settled that those amendments [in the Bill of Rights] do not extend to the states”).

The constitutional Amendments adopted in the aftermath of the Civil War fundamentally altered our country’s federal system. The provision at issue in this case, § 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment, provides, among other things, that a State may not abridge “the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States” or deprive “any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.”.

Opinion of the Court 767:

With this framework in mind, we now turn directly to the question whether the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms is incorporated in the concept of due process. In answering that question, as just explained, we must decide whether the right to keep and bear arms is fundamental to our scheme of ordered liberty, Duncan, 391 U. S., at 149, or as we have said in a related context, whether this right is “deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition,” Washington v. Glucksberg, 521 U. S. 702, 721 (1997) (internal quotation marks omitted).

Opinion of the Court at 778:

In sum, it is clear that the Framers and ratifiers of the Fourteenth Amendment counted the right to keep and bear arms among those fundamental rights necessary to our system of ordered liberty.

While it is a fine distinction, note that it is the right that is incorporated into the Fourteenth Amendment, not the Amendment that cites the right or which protects it from Federal infringement. It is recognized as a right which is protected from State infringement by the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-20   16:37:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Stoner (#0)

Great idea.... We can trust Obama with a power like this. When has the government abused its power under Obama? The only ones he wouldn't use this idea on is Muslims....

TrappedInMd  posted on  2016-06-21   9:33:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: hondo68 (#9)

Donald J Trump will listen to an argument based upon the US Constitution.

Elected and unelected Bureaucrats, leeches, and cockroaches are all part of the same family in the animal kingdom.

BobCeleste  posted on  2016-06-22   10:08:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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