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Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence. Status: Not Logged In; Sign In U.S. Constitution See other U.S. Constitution Articles Title: Peruta v San Diego Cty, no 2nd Amdt right to concealed Carry Source: 9th Circuit Court URL Source: [None] Published: Jun 9, 2016 Author: Circuit Judge W. Fletcher Post Date: 2016-06-09 16:48:27 by nolu chan Keywords: None Views: 32044 Comments: 127 Peruta v San Diego Cty, no 2nd Amdt right to concealed Carry Peruta et al v County of San Diego et al, 10-56971 (9th Cir, 9 Jul 2016) OPINION W. FLETCHER, Circuit Judge: Under California law, a member of the general public may not carry a concealed weapon in public unless he or she has been issued a license. An applicant for a license must satisfy a number of conditions. Among other things, the applicant must show “good cause” to carry a concealed firearm. California law authorizes county sheriffs to establish and publish policies defining good cause. The sheriffs of San Diego and Yolo Counties published policies defining good cause as requiring a particularized reason why an applicant needs a concealed firearm for self-defense. Appellants, who live in San Diego and Yolo Counties, allege that they wish to carry concealed firearms in public for self-defense, but that they do not satisfy the good cause requirements in their counties. They contend that their counties’ definitions of good cause violate their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. They particularly rely on the Supreme Court’s decisions in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), and McDonald v. City of Chicago, 561 U.S. 742 (2010). We hold that the Second Amendment does not preserve or protect a right of a member of the general public to carry concealed firearms in public. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-62) not displayed.       .       .       . #63. To: tpaine (#56) (Edited) tpaine #9: "AMERICUS, JULY TERM, 1846 251. Nunn vs. The State of Georgia. The above, quoted from Nunn, destroys your position that prior to the 14th, There was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States." Repeated at #12, #20 misterwhite and I were having a pleasant conversation about the early gun laws largely concerning concealed weapons. I provided the opinion in Nunn v. State 1 Kelly 243 (Ga. 1846). Nunn involved concealed weapons laws and spoke of the earlier Kentucky case, Bliss v. Commonwealth (Ky. 1822) and the Alabama case State v. Reid, (Ala. 1840), also involving state concealed weapons laws. Nunn is harmless. It does not destroy anybody's position on whether the Bill of Rights restrained the states prior to selective incorporation via the 14th Amendment. And then tpaine came along to defecate upon the thread, carryuing on an argument from another thread. As Nunn was clearly contrary to the U.S. Supreme Court opinion in Barron v. Baltimore 32 U.S. 243 (1833), it could never survive legal challenge. tpaine continued to prattle on that the Supreme Court opinion made no difference and repeat that the state court opinion in Nunn destroyed by position that the Bill of Rights did not restrain the states prior to selective incorporation via the 14th Amendment. By an act of sheer good fortune, I not only have the opinion in Barron but I also have the Georgia Supreme Court opinion in State v. Hill, 53 Ga. 472 (1874). State v. Hill, 53 Ga. 472 (1874) 2. The other question made in this record is a far graver one. It is insisted that the act describing the offense charged and fixing the penalty, is an infringement of the right of the citizens of this state as guaranteed by the constitution of the United States and of this state. It is now well settled that the amendments to the constitution of the United States of March 4th, 1789, are all restrictions, not upon the states, but upon the United States. And this would seem to be the inevitable conclusion from the history of these amendments as well as from their nature and even their terms. I do not myself assent to that other limitation of the legislative powers of our general assembly insisted upon in the argument, and sometimes announced by courts, to-wit: the "higher law," which is appealed to as above even the constitution. At last, therefore, if this act be unconstitutional it must be because it is in conflict with our state constitution. Nunn, which was clearly contrary to the U.S. Supreme Court opinion in Barron regarding a supposed application of the Bill of Rights to the states, was overturned by the Georgia Supreme Court 142 years ago. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-14   15:45:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #64. To: nolu chan (#63) There you see it again, sports fans, the canary Klan trying to justify their support for gun free zones, -- by quoting Heller. Have they no shame? There you have it again, sports fans. tpaine proven full of shit by three SCOTUS opinions --- How many times must you be told? --- SCOTUS opinions do not change the words of the 2nd. - It must not be infringed. Your latest reply, addressed to the above, rehashes the Nunn opinion.. Why? Must you be so obsessed? Get help. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-14   16:00:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #65. To: tpaine (#64) There you see it again, sports fans, the canary Klan trying to justify their support for gun free zones, -- by quoting Heller. There you see it again sports fans. tpaine trying to change the topic of discussion, this time to gun free zones (from his false claim that the BoR applied to the States since 1791). Notably, Heller was written by Scalia, joined by Roberts, Thomas, Alito, and Kennedy. The dissent was by Breyer, joined by Stevens, Souter, and Ginsburg. All of the conservative justices joined to make the Heller majority. All of the ultra liberals joined in dissent. tpaine joins the dissent. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 575-76 (2007): Respondent Dick Heller is a D. C. special police officer authorized to carry a handgun while on duty at the Thurgood Marshall Judiciary Building. He applied for a registration certificate for a handgun that he wished to keep at home, but the District refused. He thereafter filed a lawsuit in the Federal District Court for the District of Columbia seeking, on Second Amendment grounds, to enjoin the city from enforcing the bar on the registration of handguns, the licensing requirement insofar as it prohibits the carrying of a firearm in the home without a license, and the trigger-lock requirement insofar as it prohibits the use of “functional firearms within the home.” App. 59a. The District Court dismissed respondent’s complaint, see Parker v. District of Columbia, 311 F. Supp. 2d 103, 109 (2004). The Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, construing his complaint as seeking the right to render a firearm operable and carry it about his home in that condition only when necessary for self-defense, reversed, see Parker v. District of Columbia, 478 F. 3d 370, 401 (2007). It held that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess firearms and that the city’s total ban on handguns, as well as its requirement that firearms in the home be kept nonfunctional even when necessary for self-defense, violated that right. See id., at 395, 399–401. The Court of Appeals directed the District Court to enter summary judgment for respondent. We granted certiorari. 552 U. S. 1035 (2007). Heller was about the right to keep and bear arms in one's home in the Federal District of Washington, D.C. Heller commented that "Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings..." Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 626 (2007): III Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152-153; Abbott 333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489-490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students' Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884). Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.[26] [26] We identify these presumptively lawful regulatory measures only as examples; our list does not purport to be exhaustive. Prior to the 14th Amendment, the Bill of Rights did not apply to the states. Only afterward, did the courts selectively incorporate portions of the Bill of Rights into the 14th Amendment and make them applicable to the states. tpaine thinks he is the supreme authority in exposition of the law of the Constitution. The U.S. Supreme Court explicitly disagrees. Cooper v Aaron, 358 US 1 (1958): Article VI of the Constitution makes the Constitution the “supreme Law of the Land.” In 1803, Chief Justice Marshall, speaking for a unanimous Court, referring to the Constitution as “the fundamental and paramount law of the nation,” declared in the notable case of Marbury v. Madison, 1 Cranch 137, 177, that “It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.” This decision declared the basic principle that the federal judiciary is supreme in the exposition of the law of the Constitution, and that principle has ever since been respected by this Court and the Country as a permanent and indispensable feature of our constitutional system. It follows that the interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment enunciated by this Court in the Brown case is the supreme law of the land, and Art. VI of the Constitution makes it of binding effect on the States “any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” Every state legislator and executive and judicial officer is solemnly committed by oath taken pursuant to Art. VI, cl. 3, “to support this Constitution.” Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (1 Cranch) 137 (1803) set a standing precedent which is now 213 years old. One can see North Carolina in 1844 recognizing the precedential authority of the U.S. Supreme Court in Barron v. Baltimore in 1833 that the Bill of Rights did not apply to the States. State v. Newsom, 5 Iredell 181, 182, 27 N.C. 250, 251 (1844) Nash, J . We are of opinion there was error in the judgmeut pronounced by the presiding judge. On the argument here it has been urged that the act of 1840 (ch. 30) under which the defendant was prosecuted is unconstitutional, being in violation of Article II of the amended Constitution of the United States, and also of articles 3 and 17 of the Bill of Rights of this State. We do not agree to the correctness of either of these objections. The Constitution of the United States was ordained and established by the people of the United States for their own government and not for that of the different States. The limitations of power contained in it and expressed in general terms are necessarily confined to the General Government. It is now the settled construction of that instrument that no limitation upon the power of Government extends to or embraces the different States, unless they are mentioned, or it is expressed to be so intended. Barrow v. Baltimore, [sic - Barron] 7 Peters, 240; R. R. Davis, 19 N. C., 459. In Article II of the amended Constitution the States are neither mentioned nor referred to. It is, therefore, only restrictive of the powers of the Federal Government. And the beat goes on... Johnston v. Earle, 245 F.2d 793 (9th Cir. 1957) In Bell v. Hood, the refusal of the district court to consider this question, and its affirmance by the court of appeals3 was reversed, and the cause returned to the district court to determine whether the complaint stated a federal cause of action. 3 Bell v. Hood, 9 Cir., 1945, 150 F.2d 96. On its return to the district court, that court, in a very able opinion by Judge Mathes, held that no federal cause of action existed for the acts of federal officials violating the Fourth and Fifth Amendments.4 His reasoning is that the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment applies only to the federal government,5 and not to individuals.6 4 Bell v. Hood, D.C.S.D.Cal. 1947, 71 F. Supp. 813. 5 That the Fifth Amendment applies only to the acts of the federal government is settled beyond doubt. See, e.g., Spies v. People of the State of Illinois, 1887, 123 U.S. 131, 166, 8 S.Ct. 21, 31 L.Ed. 80; Burdeau v. McDowell, 1921, 256 U.S. 465, 476, 41 S.Ct. 574, 65 L. Ed. 1048. In Feldman v. United States, 1944, 322 U.S. 487, 64 S.Ct. 1082, 88 L.Ed. 1408, the Court said: "* * * [F]or more than one hundred years, ever since Barron v. [Mayor and City Council of City of] Baltimore [1833], 7 Pet. 243 [ 32 U.S. 243], 8 L.Ed. 672, one of the principles of our Constitution has been that these [the Fourth and Fifth] Amendments protect only against invasion of civil liberties by the Government whose conduct they alone limit. Brown v. Walker, 161 U.S. 591, 606, 16 S.Ct. 644, 650, 40 L.Ed. 819; Jack v. [State of] Kansas, 199 U.S. 372, 380, 26 S.Ct. 73, 75, 50 L.Ed. 234; Twining v. [State of] New Jersey, 211 U.S. 78, 29 S.Ct. 14, 53 L.Ed. 97." 322 U.S. at page 490, 64 S.Ct. 1083. 6 Mr. Justice Black stated in Bell v. Hood that "whether federal courts can grant money recovery for damages said to have been suffered as a result of federal officers violating the Fourth and Fifth Amendments" is a question which "has never been specifically decided by this Court." 327 U.S. at page 684, 66 S.Ct. 777. In Weeks v. United States, 1914, 232 U.S. 383, 34 S.Ct. 341, 58 L.Ed. 652, however, the Supreme Court clearly indicated that there was no civil action for damages based upon the Fourth Amendment against officers who had violated it seizing plaintiff's property. Speaking of the possible nonfederal liability of the offending officers, the Court said: "What remedies the defendant may have against them we need not inquire, as the 4th Amendment is not directed to individual misconduct of such officials. Its limitations reach the Federal government and its agencies." 232 U.S. at page 398, 34 S.Ct. 346. In fine, the federal government has created no cause of action enforceable in its courts for such torts under the state law, and hence the district court here lacked jurisdiction of the subject matter. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-15   16:31:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #66. To: nolu chan (#65) How many times must you be told? --- SCOTUS opinions do not change the words of the 2nd. - It must not be infringed. Your latest reply, addressed to the above, rehashes the Nunn opinion.. Why? ---- Must you be so obsessed? Get help. There you see it again sports fans. tpaine trying to change the topic of discussion, this time to gun free zones (from his false claim that the BoR applied to the States since 1791). The BOR'S applies to the States, --- thus States do NOT have the power to declare gun free zones. There you see it again sports fans, --- nolu is unable to even understand the concept under discussion. Poor fella really needs the help of mental health professionals. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-15   18:06:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #67. To: tpaine (#66) Poor fella really needs the help of mental health professionals. Id say any asshole that pays some of the highest property taxes to a state that shits on constitutional rights the most of the other 49.... and then posts on LF as a champion of constitutional rights... needs mental health, kookifonian. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح GrandIsland  posted on  2016-06-15   18:43:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #68. To: GrandIsland (#67) Id say any ---- that pays some of the highest property taxes to a state that shits on constitutional rights the most of the other 49.... and then posts on LF as a champion of constitutional rights... I'm renting a cabin in the mountains from a corporation (my son is one of the owners) that pays very little properly tax on our fixer upper resort acreage. -- Eat your heart out. And yes, I support our constitutional rights against you canary Klan weirdos. So get a life.. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-15   19:09:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #69. To: tpaine (#68) Your rent funds your tyranny. I'm sure your Christopher Dorner oven still has higher taxes than a mansion in Arizona. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح GrandIsland  posted on  2016-06-15   20:22:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #70. To: GrandIsland (#69) Bizarro bullshit all ya got? Have another cocktail. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-15   20:33:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #71. To: tpaine (#66) How many times must you be told? --- SCOTUS opinions do not change the words of the 2nd. - It must not be infringed. Your latest reply, addressed to the above, rehashes the Nunn opinion.. Why? ---- Must you be so obsessed? Actually, my #65 makes no mention of or allusion to Nunn. Nunn was the case you repeatedly have claimed destroyed my position, oblivious to the fact that it was contrary to an existing U.S. Supreme Court opinion when made in a Georgia court, and was subsequently overturned by the Georgia Supreme Court about 140 years ago. Nonsense like your claim only destroys your credibility. The BOR'S applies to the States, --- thus States do NOT have the power to declare gun free zones. Some of the BoR applies, and some does not, depending on whether it has been incorporated into the 14th Amendment. None of the BoR applied to the states before incorporation following the 14th Amendment. Productions v. Fogerty, 3:14-cv-00633-RCJ-VPC (D. Nev. Aug 26, 2015) [John Fogerty, Creedence Clearwater Revival] Until the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted in 1868, no federal due process clause applied to the states. See Barron v. City of Baltimore, 32 U.S. 243, 250-51 (1833) (Marshall, C.J.). My #65 responded to your bullshit claim at #64 that: There you see it again, sports fans, the canary Klan trying to justify their support for gun free zones, -- by quoting Heller. As I made clear at #65, Heller was about keeping arms in the home, in the Federal district of Washington, D.C., once again demonstrating the nature of your bullshit. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 575-76 (2007): Respondent Dick Heller is a D. C. special police officer authorized to carry a handgun while on duty at the Thurgood Marshall Judiciary Building. He applied for a registration certificate for a handgun that he wished to keep at home, but the District refused. He thereafter filed a lawsuit in the Federal District Court for the District of Columbia seeking, on Second Amendment grounds, to enjoin the city from enforcing the bar on the registration of handguns, the licensing requirement insofar as it prohibits the carrying of a firearm in the home without a license, and the trigger-lock requirement insofar as it prohibits the use of “functional firearms within the home.” App. 59a. The District Court dismissed respondent’s complaint, see Parker v. District of Columbia, 311 F. Supp. 2d 103, 109 (2004). The Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, construing his complaint as seeking the right to render a firearm operable and carry it about his home in that condition only when necessary for self-defense, reversed, see Parker v. District of Columbia, 478 F. 3d 370, 401 (2007). It held that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess firearms and that the city’s total ban on handguns, as well as its requirement that firearms in the home be kept nonfunctional even when necessary for self-defense, violated that right. See id., at 395, 399–401. The Court of Appeals directed the District Court to enter summary judgment for respondent. We granted certiorari. 552 U. S. 1035 (2007). Heller was about the right to keep and bear arms in one's home in the Federal District of Washington, D.C. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 626 (2007): III Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152-153; Abbott 333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489-490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students' Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884). Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.[26] [26] We identify these presumptively lawful regulatory measures only as examples; our list does not purport to be exhaustive. Heller commented that "Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings..." If the tpaine interpretation were correct, all visitors to the White House would have the right to enter with a Sig MCX. He denies any right of the government to restrict the supposed right to keep and bear any arms in any place and any time. Such has never been the law of this land, or any other that I know of. Once it is admitted that the government has the authority to restrict the right to keep and bear arms in one place, it follows that the government can use its authority for other places as it determines, e.g., courts. And my pet plant has been watered for another day. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-16   15:37:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #72. To: nolu chan (#71) Once it is admitted that the government has the authority to restrict the right to keep and bear arms in one place, it follows that the government can use its authority for other places as it determines, e.g., courts. I admit that our various levels of government have the power to make reasonable regulations on the bearing of arms (taking care that they do not infringe). -- Your authoritarian view gives them VIRTUALLY unlimited power. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-16   22:47:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #73. To: tpaine (#72) [nolu chan #71] Once it is admitted that the government has the authority to restrict the right to keep and bear arms in one place, it follows that the government can use its authority for other places as it determines, e.g., courts. [tpaine #72] I admit that our various levels of government have the power to make reasonable regulations on the bearing of arms (taking care that they do not infringe). You now admit that the government does have the power to pass laws restricting the right to keep and bear arms. And who decides what qualifies as an infringement, tpaine or the legislature/courts? Perhaps a slight flaw in the system is that the Federal government decides whether something done by the Federal government is lawful or not. There have been state laws restricting the bearing of arms since 1813. Louisiana 1813 AN ACT Against carrying concealed weapons, and going armed in public places in an unnecessary manner. Preamble. Whereas assassination and attempts to commit the same, have of late been of such frequent occurrence as to become a subject of serious alarm to the peaceable and well disposed inhabitants of this state; and whereas the same is in a great measure to be attributed to the dangerous and wicked practice of carrying about in public places concealed and deadly weapons, or going to the same armed in an unnecessary manner, therefore; .... nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-17   19:00:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #74. To: nolu chan (#73) tpaine #72] I admit that our various levels of government have the power to make reasonable regulations on the bearing of arms (taking care that they do not infringe upon the right). You now admit that the government does have the power to pass laws restricting the right to keep and bear arms. Nope, they only have the power to reasonably regulate, NOT "restrict", as you so unreasonably shade the truth. And who decides what qualifies as an infringement, tpaine or the legislature/courts? The people, ultimately. -- If SCOTUS issues an opinion that infringes, the people, over time, --- ignore it, --- and see that judges are later appointed that honor our Constitution. Perhaps a slight flaw in the system is that the Federal government decides whether something done by the Federal government is lawful or not. SCOTUS justices are pledged to honor the Constitution, not the federal government. -- And your misconception on this point tells a lot about why you're having mental problems with these issues. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-17   20:27:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #75. To: tpaine (#74) Toooooo bad for your extra crispy kookifornia. Wildfires for da libtards I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح GrandIsland  posted on  2016-06-18   8:04:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #76. To: GrandIsland (#75) Toooooo bad for your extra crispy kookifornia. Wildfires for da libtards Toooooo bad for your obsessions about California. -- Here in the northern mountains, no fires and its raining.. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-18   8:49:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #77. To: tpaine (#76) (Edited) Until the fault-line gives away.... and the fruits and nuts are swept into the sea. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح GrandIsland  posted on  2016-06-18   9:05:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #78. To: GrandIsland (#77) Toooooo bad for your obsessions about California. -- Here in the northern mountains, no fires and its raining.. Until the fault-line gives away.... and the fruits and nuts are swept into the sea. Your fruity dreams are showing up again, grandiose. Get help for those mental aberrations. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-18   9:16:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #79. To: GrandIsland, -- As per the provisions of the 2nd Amendment, citizens of the United States shall have the right to carry arms capable of concealment in any public place in the United States of America, and nothing in State or local law shall infringe upon (#77) The question remains, grandisland: ---' Could President Trump issue such a finding? Should he? tpaine  posted on  2016-06-18   9:26:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #80. To: tpaine (#79) I believe that state laws should out TRUMP federal laws and no law should infringe upon the spirit of any constitutional Amendment. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح GrandIsland  posted on  2016-06-18   11:20:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #81. To: GrandIsland (#80) 'As per the provisions of the 2nd Amendment, citizens of the United States shall have the right to carry arms capable of concealment in any public place in the United States of America, and nothing in State or local law shall infringe upon this directive.' The question remains grandisland: ---' Could President Trump issue such a finding? Should he? I believe that state laws should out TRUMP federal laws and no law should infringe upon the spirit of any constitutional Amendment. Confusing answer, - you agree that there is a right to carry concealed anywhere, -- BUT, -- that there can only be State laws to that effect? How do you propose to insure that ALL States comply ? tpaine  posted on  2016-06-18   12:08:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #82. To: tpaine (#81) I believe that state laws should out TRUMP federal laws and no law should infringe upon the spirit of any constitutional Amendment My answer is very simple. Read it slower if you don't understand. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح GrandIsland  posted on  2016-06-18   12:46:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #83. To: GrandIsland (#82) My answer is very simple --- Minded... tpaine  posted on  2016-06-18   16:01:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #84. To: tpaine (#74) [tpaine #72] I admit that our various levels of government have the power to make reasonable regulations on the bearing of arms (taking care that they do not infringe upon the right). [nolu chan #73] You now admit that the government does have the power to pass laws restricting the right to keep and bear arms. [tpaine #74] Nope, they only have the power to reasonably regulate, NOT "restrict", as you so unreasonably shade the truth. You now admit that the government does have the power to pass laws REGULATING the keeping and bearing of arms. Perhaps you are the only cretin in the country who does not think gun regulations restrict the right to keep and bear arms. But if regulate makes you feel better, so be it. Who decides before a revolution or constitutional amendment whether a REGULATION is "reasonable" or if it "infringes" upon the right to keep and bear arms? For example, who decides whether a law or regulation prohibiting the carrying of handguns in a school zone is lawful and not infringing? Who ya gonna call, Ghostbusters? [nolu chan #73] And who decides what qualifies as an infringement, tpaine or the legislature/courts? [tpaine #74] The people, ultimately. -- If SCOTUS issues an opinion that infringes, the people, over time, --- ignore it, --- and see that judges are later appointed that honor our Constitution. Cooper v Aaron, 358 US 1 (1958) It follows that the interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment enunciated by this Court in the Brown case is the supreme law of the land, and Art. VI of the Constitution makes it of binding effect on the States “any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” Every state legislator and executive and judicial officer is solemnly committed by oath taken pursuant to Art. VI, cl. 3, “to support this Constitution.” Every state legislator and executive and judicial officer is solemnly committed by oath taken pursuant to Art. VI, cl. 3, “to support this Constitution,” as it has been enunciated by the U.S. Supreme Court. So sayeth the Court. And who, to us, do you believe meaningfully decides the lawfulness of a law or regulation within our lifetime, without waiting for a revolution, a constitutional amendment, or the Supreme Court overturning its existing precedent? [tpaine #66] The BOR'S applies to the States, --- thus States do NOT have the power to declare gun free zones. There are declared gun free zones, upheld by the the U.S. Supreme Court. So, you believe the people (you) can simply ignore existing law and open carry your handgun in a school zone which has been declared a gun free zone. Good luck with that. I can't wait to hear your legal argument leading to your conviction. [nolu chan #73] Perhaps a slight flaw in the system is that the Federal government decides whether something done by the Federal government is lawful or not. [tpaine #74] SCOTUS justices are pledged to honor the Constitution, not the federal government. Then which justices in the history of the U.S. Supreme Court do you hold in respect and believe the court opinions they wrote or joined should be given respect? Can you name a few, or just one? Members of Congress and the President also pledge to honor the Constitution. All these pledges produced and upheld Obamacare. So, what is your point in saying they took a pledge? Do you believe your right to keep and bear arms is protected by their taking a pledge? If so, your right is protected by Ginsburg, Kagan, Sotomayor, Breyer, and Kennedy and Roberts. I'm surprised you have such faith in them and their pledge. There are now centuries of federal court opinions and it seems you have been unable to produce a single one that supports the crap you spew. You were reduced to this desperate grope: [tpaine #66] Your latest reply, addressed to the above, rehashes the Nunn opinion.. Why? ---- Must you be so obsessed? Only to be met with: Actually, my #65 makes no mention of or allusion to Nunn. Nunn was the case you repeatedly have claimed destroyed my position, oblivious to the fact that it was contrary to an existing U.S. Supreme Court opinion when made in a Georgia court, and was subsequently overturned by the Georgia Supreme Court about 140 years ago. Nonsense like your claim only destroys your credibility. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-18   19:00:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #85. To: nolu chan (#84) (Edited) Nolu, you are without a doubt, one of the craziest creeps I've ever had the good fortune to be entertained by, on the internet. Please, do continue your madness.. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-18   19:37:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #86. To: tpaine (#85) [tpaine #85] Please, do continue your madness.. At your request, if that is what it takes to demonstrate you you are unable to make your case, or any case at all, other than your own dementia. [tpaine #72] I admit that our various levels of government have the power to make reasonable regulations on the bearing of arms (taking care that they do not infringe upon the right). [nolu chan #73] You now admit that the government does have the power to pass laws restricting the right to keep and bear arms. [tpaine #74] Nope, they only have the power to reasonably regulate, NOT "restrict", as you so unreasonably shade the truth. You now admit that the government does have the power to pass laws REGULATING the keeping and bearing of arms. Perhaps you are the only cretin in the country who does not think gun regulations restrict the right to keep and bear arms. But if regulate makes you feel better, so be it. Who decides before a revolution or constitutional amendment whether a REGULATION is "reasonable" or if it "infringes" upon the right to keep and bear arms? For example, who decides whether a law or regulation prohibiting the carrying of handguns in a school zone is lawful and not infringing? Who ya gonna call, Ghostbusters? [nolu chan #73] And who decides what qualifies as an infringement, tpaine or the legislature/courts? [tpaine #74] The people, ultimately. -- If SCOTUS issues an opinion that infringes, the people, over time, --- ignore it, --- and see that judges are later appointed that honor our Constitution. So, you have no individual right until the collective people join your insanity and amend the Constitution to satisfy your dementia? Over time, of course. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-19   17:56:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #87. To: nolu chan (#86) I admit that our various levels of government have the power to make reasonable regulations on the bearing of arms (taking care that they do not infringe upon the right). nolu chan #73] You now admit that the government does have the power to pass laws restricting the right to keep and bear arms. [tpaine #74] Nope, they only have the power to reasonably regulate, NOT "restrict", as you so unreasonably shade the truth. [nolu chan #73] And who decides what qualifies as an infringement, tpaine or the legislature/courts? The people, ultimately. -- If SCOTUS issues an opinion that infringes, the people, over time, --- ignore it, - -- and see that judges are later appointed that honor our Constitution. So, you have no individual right until the collective people join you and amend the Constitution to satisfy you? Over time, of course. Collective? Your communitarian slip is showing. --- Nope, our right to arms exists, and when it is ignored, INDIVIDUAL Americans will rise up to see that rights are honored. Despite your efforts. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-19   19:35:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #88. To: tpaine (#87) our right to arms exists, and when it is ignored, INDIVIDUAL Americans will rise up to see that rights are honored. So, YOU will carry YOUR weapon in a school zone or other place designated as a gun-free zone. I admire your bravery. Good luck with your defense after your arrest. Hmmmm, why are you still free? Did you mean some OTHER poor dumb bastard was supposed to do it? nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-20   15:33:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #89. To: nolu chan (#88) So, YOU will carry YOUR weapon in a school zone or other place designated as a gun-free zone. I admire your bravery. Good luck with your defense after your arrest. Hmmmm, why are you still free? Did you mean some OTHER poor dumb bastard was supposed to do it? You're the poor dumb bastard around here. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-20   15:47:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #90. To: tpaine (#89) So, YOU will carry YOUR weapon in a school zone or other place designated as a gun-free zone. I admire your bravery. Good luck with your defense after your arrest. Hmmmm, why are you still free? Did you mean some OTHER poor dumb bastard was supposed to do it? You're the poor dumb bastard around here. Well, I am definitely not dumb enough to take your legal advice, and it appears no third party is either, and that leaves just you, and it appears that not even you are actually so dumb, stupid, and ignorant as to act on the demented shit you post. [nolu chan #73] And who decides what qualifies as an infringement, tpaine or the legislature/courts? [tpaine #74] The people, ultimately. -- If SCOTUS issues an opinion that infringes, the people, over time, --- ignore it, --- and see that judges are later appointed that honor our Constitution. I guess the only poor dumb bastard is tpaine, and the only people volunteering to get arrested for carrying in a designated gun free zone is the make believe people wandering about in the imagination of tpaine, acting upon his wingnuttery. You now admit that the government does have the power to pass laws regulating the right to keep and bear arms. And as to who decides what qualifies as an infringement, that is neither the courts nor the legislature, but the make believe people who exist only in the imagination of tpaine. Not tpaine. Definitely, not tpaine in Kookifornia. Kentucky 1813 Chap. LXXXIX AN ACT to prevent persons in this Commonwealth from wearing cocealed Arms, except in certain cases. Approved, February 3, 1813 Sec 1. BE it enacted by the general assembly of the commonwealth of Kentucky, That any person in this commonwealth, who shall ereafter wear a pocket pistol, dirk, large knife, or sword in a cane, concealed as a weapon, unless when travelling on a journay, shall be fined in any sum, not less than one hundred dollars.... nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-21   17:04:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #91. To: nolu chan (#90) Did you mean some OTHER poor dumb bastard was supposed to do it? You're the poor dumb bastard around here. Well, I am definitely not dumb enough to take your legal advice, --- I've never asked you, or anyone else to take my legal advice, as I don't pretend to be a legal beagle, like you. Over our discussions here, it's my opinion you're probably a frustrated clown who's failed the bar exam numerous times, and are now posting out of your mom's basement, pretending to be a legal expert. Say it isn't true.. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-21   17:32:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #92. To: tpaine (#91) [nolu chan #73] And who decides what qualifies as an infringement, tpaine or the legislature/courts? [tpaine #74] The people, ultimately. -- If SCOTUS issues an opinion that infringes, the people, over time, --- ignore it, --- and see that judges are later appointed that honor our Constitution. [nolu chan #90] I guess the only poor dumb bastard is tpaine, and the only people volunteering to get arrested for carrying in a designated gun free zone is the make believe people wandering about in the imagination of tpaine, acting upon his wingnuttery. [nolu chan #90] You now admit that the government does have the power to pass laws regulating the right to keep and bear arms. And as to who decides what qualifies as an infringement, that is neither the courts nor the legislature, but the make believe people who exist only in the imagination of tpaine. Not tpaine. Definitely, not tpaine in Kookifornia. [tpaine #91] I've never asked you, or anyone else to take my legal advice, as I don't pretend to be a legal beagle, like you. And I have pointed out that now your answer to "who decides what qualifies as an infringement, tpaine or the legislature/courts?" is nobody but the make believe people who exist only in the imagination of tpaine. Indeed, if the recourse to an "opinion that infringes, the people, over time, --- ignore it, --- and see that judges are later appointed that honor our Constitution," this is a tacit admission that the Court is the proper authority to decide the issue. Only, in the demented world of tpaine, the Opinion of the Supreme Court only counts if it is approved by tpaine. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-22   14:41:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #93. To: nolu chan (#92) I've never asked you, or anyone else to take my legal advice, as I don't pretend to be a legal beagle, like you. Over our discussions here, it's my opinion you're probably a frustrated clown who's failed the bar exam numerous times, and are now posting out of your mom's basement, pretending to be a legal expert. Say it isn't true.. In reply, you've made it obvious you can't answer. Poor nolu, stuck in mommy's basement, pretending to be a legal expert... tpaine  posted on  2016-06-22   15:25:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #94. To: tpaine (#93) Poor, poor, pitiful tpaine. He was forced to "admit that our various levels of government have the power to make reasonable regulations on the bearing of arms (taking care that they do not infringe upon the right)." When faced with the question of who decides what is an infringement, he is pathetically lost in space. [tpaine #91] I've never asked you, or anyone else to take my legal advice, as I don't pretend to be a legal beagle, like you. [tpaine #72] I admit that our various levels of government have the power to make reasonable regulations on the bearing of arms (taking care that they do not infringe upon the right). [nolu chan #73] And who decides what qualifies as an infringement, tpaine or the legislature/courts? [tpaine #74] The people, ultimately. -- If SCOTUS issues an opinion that infringes, the people, over time, --- ignore it, --- and see that judges are later appointed that honor our Constitution. [nolu chan #90] I guess the only poor dumb bastard is tpaine, and the only people volunteering to get arrested for carrying in a designated gun free zone is the make believe people wandering about in the imagination of tpaine, acting upon his wingnuttery. [nolu chan #90] You now admit that the government does have the power to pass laws regulating the right to keep and bear arms. And as to who decides what qualifies as an infringement, that is neither the courts nor the legislature, but the make believe people who exist only in the imagination of tpaine. Not tpaine. Definitely, not tpaine in Kookifornia. And I have pointed out that now your answer to "who decides what qualifies as an infringement, tpaine or the legislature/courts?" is nobody but the make believe people who exist only in the imagination of tpaine. Indeed, if the recourse to an "opinion that infringes, the people, over time, --- ignore it, --- and see that judges are later appointed that honor our Constitution," this is a tacit admission that the Court is the proper authority to decide the issue. However, in the demented world of tpaine, the Opinion of the Supreme Court only counts if said opinion is approved by tpaine. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-23   17:07:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #95. To: nolu chan (#94) Poor nolu, stuck in mommy's basement, pretending to be a legal expert... Say it isn't true.. In reply, you've made it obvious you can't answer. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-23   17:16:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #96. To: tpaine (#95) [tpaine #72] I admit that our various levels of government have the power to make reasonable regulations on the bearing of arms (taking care that they do not infringe upon the right). [nolu chan #73] And who decides what qualifies as an infringement, tpaine or the legislature/courts? [tpaine #74] The people, ultimately. -- If SCOTUS issues an opinion that infringes, the people, over time, --- ignore it, --- and see that judges are later appointed that honor our Constitution. http://www2.libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=46771&Disp=28#C28 [tpaine #28 - 2016-06-23, different thread at link] The US Supreme Court has the authority to "interpret" the US Constitution, but their 'authority' is to issue opinions, -- opinions which are NOT binding on the legislative, -- or the executive branch. In tpaine's world of dementia, the people decide what infringes by seeing that judges are appointed that honor the Constitution. In tpaine's world of dementia, the the legislature and the executive may ignore any and all U.S. Supreme Court opinions. If one believes tpaine, that is, the judges of the courts decide what qualifies as an infringement by issuing opinions that the rest of the government is free to ignore. For example, in tpaine's world of dementia, President Obama is free to ignore the opinion affirming the Circuit Court in U.S. v. Texas (23 Jun 2016) and may continue with his policies regarding illegal aliens. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-24   16:33:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #97. To: nolu chan, plays the statist game. (#96) The US Supreme Court has the authority to "interpret" the US Constitution, but their 'authority' is to issue opinions, -- opinions which are NOT binding on the legislative, -- or the executive branch. In tpaine's world, -- the people decide what infringes by seeing that judges are appointed that honor the Constitution. In tpaine's world, the the legislature and the executive may ignore any and all U.S. Supreme Court opinions. ---- If one believes tpaine, that is, the judges of the courts decide what qualifies as an infringement by issuing opinions that the rest of the government is free to ignore. --- For example, in tpaine's world, -- President Obama is free to ignore the opinion affirming the Circuit Court in U.S. v. Texas (23 Jun 2016) and may continue with his policies regarding illegal aliens. Yep, Obama may do just that, --- at his political peril of impeachment. But impeachment will not happen this late in his term... Instead, President Trump will correct Obama's malfeasance. This is the way our republic is set up, despite nolu's statist opinions. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-24   17:44:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #98. To: tpaine (#97) [tpaine #72] I admit that our various levels of government have the power to make reasonable regulations on the bearing of arms (taking care that they do not infringe upon the right). [nolu chan #73] And who decides what qualifies as an infringement, tpaine or the legislature/courts? [tpaine #74] The people, ultimately. -- If SCOTUS issues an opinion that infringes, the people, over time, --- ignore it, --- and see that judges are later appointed that honor our Constitution. http://www2.libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=46771&Disp=28#C28 [tpaine #28 - 2016-06-23, different thread at link] The US Supreme Court has the authority to "interpret" the US Constitution, but their 'authority' is to issue opinions, -- opinions which are NOT binding on the legislative, -- or the executive branch. [nolu chan #96] In tpaine's world of dementia, the people decide what infringes by seeing that judges are appointed that honor the Constitution. In tpaine's world of dementia, the the legislature and the executive may ignore any and all U.S. Supreme Court opinions. If one believes tpaine, that is, the judges of the courts decide what qualifies as an infringement by issuing opinions that the rest of the government is free to ignore. For example, in tpaine's world of dementia, President Obama is free to ignore the opinion affirming the Circuit Court in U.S. v. Texas (23 Jun 2016) and may continue with his policies regarding illegal aliens. [tpaine #97] Yep, Obama may do just that, --- at his political peril of impeachment. But impeachment will not happen this late in his term... Instead, President Trump will correct Obama's malfeasance. This is the way our republic is set up... tpaine logic. SCOTUS opinions are "NOT binding on the executive." The President may ignore them, but if he does, he can be tried and convicted by the Senate for having committed high crimes or misdemeanors and thrown out of office. Keep digging that hole. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-25   22:53:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #99. To: nolu chan (#98) If one believes tpaine, that is, the judges of the courts decide what qualifies as an infringement by issuing opinions that the rest of the government is free to ignore. Yep, Obama may do just that, --- at his political peril of impeachment. But impeachment will not happen this late in his term... Instead, President Trump will correct Obama's malfeasance. This is the way our republic is set up... Tpaine logic. SCOTUS opinions are "NOT binding on the executive." The President may ignore them, but if he does, he can be tried and convicted by the Senate for having committed high crimes or misdemeanors and thrown out of office. --- Keep digging that hole. What hole? -- You're now denying our 'separation of powers' concept? You must have attended the Moscow University Law School. tpaine  posted on  2016-06-27   12:11:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #100. To: tpaine (#99) [tpaine #72] I admit that our various levels of government have the power to make reasonable regulations on the bearing of arms (taking care that they do not infringe upon the right). [nolu chan #73] And who decides what qualifies as an infringement, tpaine or the legislature/courts? [tpaine #74] The people, ultimately. -- If SCOTUS issues an opinion that infringes, the people, over time, --- ignore it, --- and see that judges are later appointed that honor our Constitution. http://www2.libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=46771&Disp=28#C28 [tpaine #28 - 2016-06-23, different thread at link] The US Supreme Court has the authority to "interpret" the US Constitution, but their 'authority' is to issue opinions, -- opinions which are NOT binding on the legislative, -- or the executive branch. [nolu chan #96] In tpaine's world of dementia, the people decide what infringes by seeing that judges are appointed that honor the Constitution. In tpaine's world of dementia, the the legislature and the executive may ignore any and all U.S. Supreme Court opinions. If one believes tpaine, that is, the judges of the courts decide what qualifies as an infringement by issuing opinions that the rest of the government is free to ignore. For example, in tpaine's world of dementia, President Obama is free to ignore the opinion affirming the Circuit Court in U.S. v. Texas (23 Jun 2016) and may continue with his policies regarding illegal aliens. [tpaine #97] Yep, Obama may do just that, --- at his political peril of impeachment. But impeachment will not happen this late in his term... Instead, President Trump will correct Obama's malfeasance. This is the way our republic is set up... [nolu chan #98] tpaine logic. SCOTUS opinions are "NOT binding on the executive." The President may ignore them, but if he does, he can be tried and convicted by the Senate for having committed high crimes or misdemeanors and thrown out of office. tpaine #99 - psychobabble. Keep digging that hole. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-27   16:02:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #101. To: nolu chan mimics roscoe (#100) tpaine logic. SCOTUS opinions are "NOT binding on the executive." The President may ignore them, but if he does, he can be tried and convicted by the Senate for having committed high crimes or misdemeanors and thrown out of office. --- Keep digging that hole. What hole? -- You're now denying our 'separation of powers' concept? You must have attended the Moscow University Law School. psychobabble Finally you are reduced to one word idiotic replies, like roscoe. Congrats . tpaine  posted on  2016-06-27   16:27:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #102. To: tpaine (#101) [tpaine #101] Finally you are reduced to one word idiotic replies, like roscoe. Only if you consider the below to be a single word. You have been reduced to a quivering chihuahua, hiding in a corner, sitting in a puddle of your own warm piss. I understand why a little ankle biter like you chooses to hide rather than confront the substance of your own bullshit. [tpaine #72] I admit that our various levels of government have the power to make reasonable regulations on the bearing of arms (taking care that they do not infringe upon the right). [nolu chan #73] And who decides what qualifies as an infringement, tpaine or the legislature/courts? [tpaine #74] The people, ultimately. -- If SCOTUS issues an opinion that infringes, the people, over time, --- ignore it, --- and see that judges are later appointed that honor our Constitution. http://www2.libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=46771&Disp=28#C28 [tpaine #28 - 2016-06-23, different thread at link] The US Supreme Court has the authority to "interpret" the US Constitution, but their 'authority' is to issue opinions, -- opinions which are NOT binding on the legislative, -- or the executive branch. [nolu chan #96] In tpaine's world of dementia, the people decide what infringes by seeing that judges are appointed that honor the Constitution. In tpaine's world of dementia, the the legislature and the executive may ignore any and all U.S. Supreme Court opinions. If one believes tpaine, that is, the judges of the courts decide what qualifies as an infringement by issuing opinions that the rest of the government is free to ignore. For example, in tpaine's world of dementia, President Obama is free to ignore the opinion affirming the Circuit Court in U.S. v. Texas (23 Jun 2016) and may continue with his policies regarding illegal aliens. [tpaine #97] Yep, Obama may do just that, --- at his political peril of impeachment. But impeachment will not happen this late in his term... Instead, President Trump will correct Obama's malfeasance. This is the way our republic is set up... [nolu chan #98] tpaine logic. SCOTUS opinions are "NOT binding on the executive." The President may ignore them, but if he does, he can be tried and convicted by the Senate for having committed high crimes or misdemeanors and thrown out of office. tpaine #99 - psychobabble. Keep digging that hole. nolu chan  posted on  2016-06-28   13:18:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #103. To: nolu chan (#102) psychobabble Finally you are reduced to one word idiotic replies, like roscoe. Congrats . Only if you consider the below to be a single word. Well there you go again, trying to impress non existent readers with your boring repetitive legal opinions, none of which change the Constitution. Do you really imagine anyone reads them? Dream on... tpaine  posted on  2016-06-28   14:24:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply         .       .       . Comments (104 - 127) not displayed. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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