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Title: Ninth Circuit: Right to Bear Arms Includes Right to Acquire Arms
Source:
Breitbart
URL Source: http://www.breitbart.com/california ... s-includes-right-acquire-arms/
Published: May 16, 2016
Author: Awr Hawkins
Post Date: 2016-05-16 22:55:10 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 59224
Comments: 164
Teixeira revolves around Alameda County zoning rules for incorporated areas that not only require a gun store owner to obtain requisite local, state, and federal permits for the business, but also make sure “the proposed location of the business is not within five hundred feet of a ‘[r]esidentially zoned district; elementary, middle or high school; pre-school or day care center; other firearms sales business; or liquor stores or establishments in which liquor is served.'” Teixeira revolves around Alameda County zoning rules for incorporated areas that not only require a gun store owner to obtain requisite local, state, and federal permits for the business, but also make sure “the proposed location of the business is not within five hundred feet of a ‘[r]esidentially zoned district; elementary, middle or high school; pre-school or day care center; other firearms sales business; or liquor stores or establishments in which liquor is served.'” After being denied the requisite county permits to open “Valley Guns and Ammo” — due to complaints of persons within 500 feet of the proposed business — Plaintiff John Teixeira contended that the “500-foot rule” was tantamount to a backdoor ban on gun stores. And while there was some question over the exact distance between the proposed store and some of those who complained, the issue for Teixeira turned on the right of due process and other rights protected by the Second Amendment. Teixeira challenged Alameda County’s decision in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California and lost. He then appealed the case to the 9th Circuit Court, where the ruling has remanded the case to the lower court. In summarizing the latest ruling, the court pointed to the Ninth Circuit’s position that Alameda County “had offered nothing to undermine the panel’s conclusion that the right to purchase and to sell firearms is part and parcel of the historically recognized right to keep and to bear arms.” Writing in the Majority Opinion, 9th Circuit Judge Diarmuid O’Scannlain emphasized, “Our forefathers recognized that the prohibition of commerce in firearms worked to undermine the right to keep and to bear arms.” O’Scannlain also pointed to the recognition of the importance of buying and selling firearms from the time of the English Bill of Rights (1689) to founding of the United States. Regarding the era in which the United States was founded, O’Scannlain explained that the states which ratified that Second Amendment did so believing they were not simply protecting a right to keep and bear arms but to buy and sell them as well. He wrote: The historical record indicates that Americans continued to believe that such right included the freedom to purchase and to sell weapons. In 1793, Thomas Jefferson noted that “[o]ur citizens have always been free to make, vend, and export arms. It is the constant occupation and livelihood of some of them.”
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled Monday that the right to bear arms has historically included the right to acquire them, and remanded the case of Teixeira v. County of Alameda to the lower court.
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#84. To: nolu chan (#83)
Please keep wasting your time posting OPINIONS that buttress your opinion above.. You cannot refute that the Constitution itself clearly says otherwise: --- "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."
As you wish. And you keep avoiding posting anything that buttresses your bullshit. Senator Jacob Howard Representative John Bingham and Senator Jacob Howard were co-authors of the Fourteenth Amendment. Cong. Globe, 39th Cong., 1st Sess. 2765-66 (1866) Now, sir, there is no power given in the Constitution to enforce and to carry out any of these guarantees. They are not powers granted by the Constitution to Congress, and of course do not come within the sweeping clause of the Constitution authorizing Congress to pass all laws necessary and proper for carrying out the foregoing or granted powers, but they stand simply as a bill of rights in the Constitution, without power on the part of Congress to give them full effect; while at the same time the States are not restrained from violating the principles embraced in them except by their own local constitutions, which may be altered from year to year. The great object of the first section of this amendment is, therefore, to restrain the power of the States and compel them at all times to respect these great fundamental guarantees. How will it be done under the present amendment? As I have remarked, they are not powers granted to Congress, and therefore it is necessary, if they are to be effectuated and enforced, as they assuredly ought to be, that additional power should be given to Congress to that end. This is done by the fifth section of this amendment, which declares' that " the Congress shall have power to enforce by appropriate legislation the provisions of this article." Here is a direct affirmative delegation of power to Congress to carry out all the principles of all these guarantees, a power not found in the Constitution.
Please, keep wasting your time posting OPINIONS that buttress your opinion above.. I'll repeat my last post, which buttresses my position, which you cannot refute, and is part of our Constitution, NOT bullshit: --- "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."
As you wish. And you keep avoiding posting anything that buttresses your bullshit. Thaddeus Stevens, Congressional Globe, 39th Cong., 1st Sess., Vol. 3, pg. 2459, (May 8, 1866) The first section prohibits the States from abridging the privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States, or unlawfully depriving them of life, liberty, or property, or of denying to any person within their jurisdiction the "equal" protection of the laws. I can hardly believe that any person can be found who will not admit that every one of these provisions is just. They are all asserted, in some form or other, in our Declaration or organic law. But the Constitution limits only the action of Congress, and is not a limitation on the States. This amendment supplies that defect, and allows Congress to correct the unjust legislation of the States, so far that the law which operates upon one man shall operate equally upon all.
Please, keep wasting your time posting OPINIONS that buttress your opinion above.. I'll repeat my last post, which buttresses my position, which you cannot refute, and is part of our Constitution, NOT bullshit: --- "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding." Your reply, quoting the OPINION of Thaddeus Stevens: --- "But the Constitution limits only the action of Congress, and is not a limitation on the States." ---- Is somehow supposed to refute the constitutional quote I posted? You reAlly do need rest, as your posting is increasingly bizarro. GET HELP.
As Supremacy Clause pertains to a conflict of laws. As the Bill of Rights originally did not apply to the States, there was no conflict between the inapplicable Bill of Rights and any State laws. The members of the union are the States (Art. 8). The States ratified the amendments called the Bill of Rights to place clear restraints on the powers of the Federal government. Amendments to the Federal charter, limiting the powers of the Federal government, do not apply to the States. The Bill of Rights limits and restrains Federal power, it does not contain any grant or authorization of Federal power. You can keep quoting the Supremacy Clause, but in the context of the original Bill of Rights and State law, it did not do amything, as it created no conflict of laws. When the First Amendment says, "Congress shall pass no law," it speaks to the Federal Congress only. That is why 225 years of American court opinions unanimously say you are full of shit and do not know what you are talking about. Armstrong v. Exceptional Child Ctr., Inc., 135 S.Ct. 1378 (2015) “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” It is apparent that this Clause creates a rule of decision: Courts “shall” regard the “Constitution,” and all laws “made in Pursuance thereof,” as “the supreme Law of the Land.” They must not give effect to state laws that conflict with federal laws. Gibbons v. Ogden, 9 Wheat. 1, 210, 6 L.Ed. 23 (1824). It is equally apparent that the Supremacy Clause is not the “ ‘source of any federal rights,’ ” Golden State Transit Corp. v. Los Angeles, 493 U.S. 103, 107, 110 S.Ct. 444, 107 L.Ed.2d 420 (1989) (quoting Chapman v. Houston Welfare Rights Organization, 441 U.S. 600, 613, 99 S.Ct. 1905, 60 L.Ed.2d 508 (1979)), and certainly does not create a cause of action. It instructs courts what to do when state and federal law clash, but is silent regarding who may enforce federal laws in court, and in what circumstances they may do so.
The Supremacy Clause, Art. VI, cl. 2, reads: “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” A "rule of decision"? --- Who in hell made up that OPINION? And why should I care? You are paraphrasing the words as written to make another OPINION, --- You really can't help yourself, can you.... You're simply making up more opinions on what the supremacy clause means. -- Its apparent you can't stop this inane form of argument. You're assuming the BOR'S is "inapplicable"? -- More bizarro reasoning. Yep, and to also protect our rights from all infringements. -- By anyone... There you go again, putting out your opinion as fact. -- It's become a mania. That and more, it limits infringements of our rights from all types of power. The fact that the first specifies congress, --- does not mean that others can infringe on our rights. In your opinion, they can.. Your opinion is one long held by STATISTS of every stripe. Feel proud?
tpaine, you are a fucking idiot. Your douchebaggery in your #90 does not criticize my words but the quoted words of Justice Antonin Scalia in an opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court. You are a truly exceptional child. You are apparently to dumb, stupid, and ignorant to realize that 135 S.Ct. 1378 signifies a U.S. Supreme Court case. You do a good job of telling Justice Scalia that he just can't help himself and that he just can't stop his inane form of argument. What an asshole you are. Armstrong v. Exceptional Child Ctr., Inc., 135 S.Ct. 1378 (2015). The material printed in blue font is quoted directly from Armstrong, an Opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court by Justice Antonin Scalia., slip op at 5. [tpaine #90] A "rule of decision"? --- Who in hell made up that OPINION? And why should I care? [tpaine #90] You are paraphrasing the words as written to make another OPINION, --- You really can't help yourself, can you.... [tpaine #90] You're simply making up more opinions on what the supremacy clause means. -- Its apparent you can't stop this inane form of argument.
Justice Scalia continued in Armstrong v. Exceptional Child Ctr., Inc., 135 S.Ct. 1378 (2015).
Araya v JPMorgan Chase Bank, NA, 775 F3d 409, 414-15 (DC Cir 2014)
Armstrong v. Exceptional Child Center, Inc. Leading Case : 135 S. Ct. 1378 (2015) NOV 10, 2015 129 Harv. L. Rev. 211 Mindful of the common law maxim “that where there is a legal right, there is also a legal remedy,”1× the Supreme Court has often inferred a private right of action in the face of statutory or constitutional silence.2× In recent decades, however, the Court has retreated from this general remedial approach, narrowing the availability of implied rights of action by drawing distinctions among various remedies and legal interests.3× Last Term, in Armstrong v. Exceptional Child Center, Inc.,4× the Court at once simplified and complicated the landscape — unifying5× the disparate treatment of statutory damages and affirmative injunctions while hinting at yet another exception for the award of negative relief.6× Though the Court claimed to rely exclusively on earlier decisions when resolving Armstrong, the outcome is difficult to explain as a straightforward application of precedent. The Court instead could have relied convincingly on common law reasoning that traces back to Justice Harlan’s concurrence in Bivens. And even though the Court eschewed this mode of analysis, the common law nature of the Court’s private-rights-of-action jurisprudence supports Armstrong’s attempt to unify the statutory context by ratcheting down the formerly permissive treatment of affirmative injunctions. Medicaid is a federal–state program that subsidizes the states’ provision of medical care to low-income individuals.7× State participation in the program is voluntary, but states receiving federal funds must develop a state plan that complies with the terms of the Medicaid Act.8× Among other requirements, § 30(A) of the Act requires that such plans contain procedures to ensure that reimbursement rates for health care providers are consistent with “quality of care and are sufficient to enlist enough providers” in the geographic area.9× The State of Idaho administers a federally approved Medicaid plan, which includes residential habilitation services for individuals with developmental disabilities.10× In 2005, Idaho’s legislature revised the methodology for determining reimbursement rates for habilitation service providers, requiring state officials to consider the actual costs incurred by providers.11× In 2009, after conducting various cost studies, state officials proposed that the applicable reimbursement rates be increased.12× The proposed rates, however, were never implemented because the Idaho legislature did not appropriate the necessary funds.13× Five providers of habilitation services (the “Providers”) filed suit in the District of Idaho against two officials responsible for administering the state’s Medicaid program, claiming that the prevailing reimbursement rates were too low to satisfy the conditions of § 30(A) and thus were preempted by the Act.14× The Providers asked the court to issue an injunction ordering the state officials to increase the rates.15× The district court granted summary judgment for the Providers.16× The court rejected the argument that the Providers lacked a valid cause of action, holding that Ninth Circuit precedent “clear[ly]” established that “providers have standing under the Supremacy Clause” to challenge a state law reducing reimbursement rates in violation of § 30(A).17× On the merits, Chief Judge Winmill concluded that the state’s continued use of the 2006 reimbursement rates violated § 30(A) because the rates did not incorporate “actual provider costs.”18× The Ninth Circuit affirmed by unpublished disposition.19× From the outset, the court maintained that the “Providers have an implied right of action under the Supremacy Clause” to enjoin the implementation of state legislation.20× Turning to § 30(A), the Ninth Circuit affirmed the district court’s determination that the rates had impermissibly “remained in place for ‘purely budgetary reasons.’”21× The Supreme Court reversed.22× Writing for the Court, Justice Scalia23× held that the Supremacy Clause does not create a freestanding cause of action.24× Rather, the “ability to sue to enjoin unconstitutional actions by state and federal officers” is an equitable, “judge-made remedy” that can be foreclosed by Congress.25× Relying on both text and history, Justice Scalia concluded that the Supremacy Clause establishes a mere “rule of decision.”26× Read simply, the clause “instructs courts what to do when state and federal law clash, but is silent regarding who may enforce federal laws in court.”27× And read in context, “imposing mandatory private enforcement”28× of federal law would conflict with the enforcement regime established in Article I, which vests Congress with broad discretion to guide the implementation of its laws.29× Finally, the “conspicuous absence” of any mention in the preratification historical record that the clause created such significant private rights “militate[d] strongly against” the Providers’ position.30× Having dispensed with a claim to relief under the Supremacy Clause, the Court identified the longstanding Ex parte Young31× 31. 209 U.S. 123 (1908). right of action to enjoin unlawful executive acts as a “creation of courts of equity” that could be displaced by Congress through “express and implied statutory limitations.”32× According to the Court, two features of § 30(A) implicitly foreclosed equitable relief. First, similar to the statute in Alexander v. Sandoval,33× the express provision of one method of enforcing the requirements of the Act — the Secretary’s withholding of Medicaid funds — indicated that Congress intended to foreclose other remedies.34× Second, the “judicially unadministrable nature of § 30(A)’s text”35× demonstrated, as in Gonzaga University v. Doe,36× that Congress “wanted to make the agency remedy that it provided exclusive.”37× Taken together, the Court held that the Act displaced an equitable remedy to enforce § 30(A).38× I copied the above from the Harvard law review, and fail to see what Scalia's comments (in bold above) have to do with our debate on States having the power to ignore the BOR'S. Your playing 'gotcha' with selective quotes of Scalia's OPINIONS 'got' me, to be sure. -- But really, those quotes are irrelevant, and you know it. --- Your desperation is becoming ever more evident…
Hamilton wrote that the Supremacy Clause “only declares a truth, which flows immediately and necessarily from the institution of a Federal Government.” The Federalist No. 33, p. 207 (J. Cooke ed.1961). And Story described the Clause as “a positive affirmance of that, which is necessarily implied.” 3 Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States § 1831, p. 693 (1833). These descriptions would have been grossly inapt if the Clause were understood to give affected parties a constitutional (and hence congressionally unalterable) right to enforce federal laws against the States. You continue posting Scalia's OPINIONS. They prove nothing in our debate, except your maniac/statist desperation. Thanks
Bullshit - you spent your entire career as a cop, and as we all know, cops lie. Misrepresentation, deception, and outright lying appear to be part of a police officer’s job description, so much so that the term “testilying,” now common vernacular for police falsifications, was actually coined by NYPD officers as something of an inside joke. And you continue your lies here - I guess old habits are hard to break, eh pig? More desperate opinion, that proves nothing. Ho hum..
[tpaine #94] I copied the above from the Harvard law review, and fail to see what Scalia's comments (in bold above) have to do with our debate on States having the power to ignore the BOR'S. You boldfaced comments of the anonymous Harvard Law Review article, not comments of Justice Scalia as they appear in Armstrong. The opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court is not changed by an anonymous Harvard Law Review article. The article does not replace the actual court opinion. You here forget that the Supremacy Clause, quoted and commented upon by Justice Scalia was quoted and relied upon by you to allege it somehow buttressed your bullshit about the Bill of Rights being applicable to the States prior to the Fourteenth Amendment. Here you correctly observe, as does Scalia, that the Supremacy Clause does not have a damned thing to do with applying the Bill of Rights to the States. As Scalia stated, the Supremacy Clause "instructs courts what to do when state and federal law clash." As well documented at my #89, with the Bill of Rights, the States placed restrictions on the Federal government. There is no grant of power to do anything, and no conflict of Federal and State law was created. Your display of assholery with the comments of Justice Scalia demonstrates the generic shitheadedness of your comments. You thought the comments were mine and, in typical fashion, mindlessly made idiotic disparaging comments. And then you find out that you were responding to Justice Scalia with, "You really can't help yourself, can you...." Justice Scalia was the foremost original intent justice of his generation. Now you can justify why you believe Justice Scalia "just can't help" himself. Armstrong v. Exceptional Child Ctr., Inc., 135 S.Ct. 1378 (2015). Antonin Scalia., slip op at 5. “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” It is apparent that this Clause creates a rule of decision: [tpaine #90] A "rule of decision"? --- Who in hell made up that OPINION? And why should I care? [tpaine #90] You are paraphrasing the words as written to make another OPINION, --- You really can't help yourself, can you.... [tpaine #90] You're simply making up more opinions on what the supremacy clause means. -- Its apparent you can't stop this inane form of argument. At my #89: The members of the union are the States (Art. 8). The States ratified the amendments called the Bill of Rights to place clear restraints on the powers of the Federal government. Amendments to the Federal charter, limiting the powers of the Federal government, do not apply to the States. The Bill of Rights limits and restrains Federal power, it does not contain any grant or authorization of Federal power. You can keep quoting the Supremacy Clause, but in the context of the original Bill of Rights and State law, it did not do amything, as it created no conflict of laws. When the First Amendment says, "Congress shall pass no law," it speaks to the Federal Congress only. That is why 225 years of American court opinions unanimously say you are full of shit and do not know what you are talking about. [tpaine #84] Please keep wasting your time posting OPINIONS that buttress your opinion above.. You cannot refute that the Constitution itself clearly says otherwise: --- "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding." [tpaine #86] "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding." [tpaine #88] "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding." http://cdn.harvardlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/armstrong_v_exceptional.pdf Harvard Law Review, The Supreme Court — Leading Cases, Vol. 129:211, no author cited. Article VI — Private Rights of Action — Equitable Remedies to Enforce the Medicaid Act — Armstrong v. Exceptional Child Center, Inc. Excerpt, pages 212-13: The Ninth Circuit affirmed by unpublished disposition. From the outset, the court maintained that the “Providers have an implied right of action under the Supremacy Clause” to enjoin the implementation of state legislation. Turning to § 30(A), the Ninth Circuit affirmed the district court’s determination that the rates had impermissibly “remained in place for ‘purely budgetary reasons.’” The Supreme Court reversed. Writing for the Court, Justice Scalia held that the Supremacy Clause does not create a freestanding cause of action. Rather, the “ability to sue to enjoin unconstitutional actions by state and federal officers” is an equitable, “judge-made remedy” that can be foreclosed by Congress. The 9th Circuit found a right of action under the Supremacy Clause to enjoin the implementation of state legislation. The Supreme Court found that no such right of action existed under the Supremacy Clause. That's the same Supremacy Clause you keep quoting, thinking it somehow made the Bill of Rights applicable to the States.
You continue posting Scalia's OPINIONS. They prove nothing in our debate, except your maniac/statist desperation. Actually, I posted a majority Opinion of the United States Supreme Court, and the holding is the law of the land. Deal with it.
More desperate opinion, that proves nothing. Ho hum.. Actually, I quoted the opinion of the Court, so fuck you. I will keep citing and quoting as there is no end of court opinions which say you are full of shit. With 225 years of opinions to work with, it is obvious that you cannot quote a single one that says the Bill of Rights applies to and restricts the States. The quoted opinion is from 2014. The Fourteenth Amendment applies to the States, and so much of the Bill of Rights which has been incorporated into the Fourteenth Amendment applies to the States via the Fourteenth Amendment. Have another court opinion saying you are full of shit. Parker v. D.C., 478 F.3d 370 (D.C. Cir. 2007) Thank you for participating in the creation of this thread to document your stupid assholery and to serve as a monument to the same.
Misrepresentation, deception, and outright lying appear to be part of a police officer’s job description, so much so that the term “testilying,” now common vernacular for police falsifications, was actually coined by NYPD officers as something of an inside joke. And you continue your lies The United States Supreme Court (which by the way is WAY MORE important that you) has ruled that LE can be deceptive... "For example, the U.S. Supreme Court has allowed police to falsely claim that a suspect's confederate confessed when in fact he had not (Frazier v. Cupp, 1969) and to have found a suspect's fingerprints at a crime scene when there were none (Oregon v. Mathiason, 1977), determining such acts insufficient for rendering the defendant's confession inadmissible. State courts have permitted police to deceive suspects about a range of factual matters, including, for example, falsely stating that incriminating DNA evidence and satellite photography of the crime scene exist (State v. Nightingale, 2012). Who's fault is it that one of your career criminal scumbags you defend 24/7 confesses to a crime from a lie he/she believes? So shut your Paultard cop hating anarchist cum dumpster. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
You continue posting Scalia's OPINIONS. They prove nothing in our debate, except your maniac/statist desperation. Majority opinion holdings are NOT the law of the land. Only our Constitution holds that distinction.--- Deal with it. More desperate opinion, that proves nothing. Ho hum.. How often must you be told, opinions do not affect our Constitution. And your foul mouth won't change it either, punk. I don't quote court opinions, I cited our Constitution, [Art VI] which it's obvious you hate. Get lost... -- Or continue to make a punk fool of yourself. -- I'm indifferent to your foul idiocies.
What is obvious is that you do not understand Article VI any better than you understand the rest of the Constitution. I quoted court opinions about the Supremacy Clause and it is obvious you hate the truth. The Supremacy Clause pertains to a conflict of laws. The the Bill of Rights originally did not apply to the States, there was no conflict between the inapplicable Bill of Rights and any State laws. The members of the union are the States (Art. 8). The States ratified the amendments called the Bill of Rights to place clear restraints on the powers of the Federal government. Amendments to the Federal charter, limiting the powers of the Federal government, do not apply to the States. The Bill of Rights limits and restrains Federal power, it does not contain any grant or authorization of Federal power. You can keep quoting the Supremacy Clause, but in the context of the original Bill of Rights and State law, it did not do anything, as it created no conflict of laws. When the First Amendment says, "Congress shall pass no law," it speaks to the Federal Congress only. That is why 225 years of American court opinions unanimously say you are full of shit and do not know what you are talking about. Armstrong v. Exceptional Child Ctr., Inc., 135 S.Ct. 1378 (2015), Opinion of the Court by Scalia, J. Idiot tpaine thinking he is responding to nolu chan: “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” It is apparent that this Clause creates a rule of decision: [tpaine #90] A "rule of decision"? --- Who in hell made up that OPINION? And why should I care? [nc] Antonin Scalia "made up that Opinion," and you should care because he did it as an Associate Justice writing a majority opinion of the U.S. Supreme court. [nc] "It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases must, of necessity, expound and interpret that rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the courts must decide on the operation of each." Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (1 Cranch) 137; 2 L. Ed. 60 (1803). [tpaine #90] You are paraphrasing the words as written to make another OPINION, --- You really can't help yourself, can you.... [nc] Scalia was not was writing a majority Opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court. [tpaine #90] You're simply making up more opinions on what the supremacy clause means. -- Its apparent you can't stop this inane form of argument. [nc] Justice Scalia was writing a majority Opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court pertaining to what the supremacy clause means. It speaks loudly of your intellect that you find his form of argument to be inane. As for the Bill of Rights, here is another court opinion, there are lots and lots and lots of them. Flaskamp v Dearborn Public Schools, 385 F.3d 935 (6th Cir. 2004)
More desperate court opinion, that proves nothing. Ho hum.. How often must you be told, opinions do not affect our Constitution. And your foul mouth won't change it either, punk. I don't quote court opinions, as they prove nothing. ---- I cited our Constitution, [Art VI] which it's obvious you hate. Get lost... -- Or continue to make a punk fool of yourself. -- I'm indifferent to your foul idiocies. No, it's obvious that you will continue to insist in making a fool of yourself, repeating opinions that prove nothing. Continue if you must, and I will continue to comment and to laugh at your foolish behavior.
"It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases must, of necessity, expound and interpret that rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the courts must decide on the operation of each." Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (1 Cranch) 137; 2 L. Ed. 60 (1803). Court opinions show what the law is, as opposed to what tpaine wants it to be. As for the Bill of Rights, here is another court opinion, there are lots and lots and lots of them. Stevenson v Lewis, 384 F.3d 1069 (9th Cir. 2004) The Supreme Court has not decided whether the Fourteenth Amendment incorporated the Sixth Amendment's vicinage right. Neither have we. The only circuits to squarely address the issue have concluded that the Fourteenth Amendment did not extend federal vicinage protection to the states. See Caudill v. Scott, 857 F.2d 344, 345-46 (6th Cir. 1988); Cook v. Morrill, 783 F.2d 593, 594-96 (5th Cir. 1986); Zicarelli v. Dietz, 633 F.2d 312, 320-26 (3rd Cir. 1980). Most state courts to address the issue have likewise held that the vicinage clause does not apply to the states. What is obvious is that you do not understand Article VI any better than you understand the rest of the Constitution. I quoted court opinions about the Supremacy Clause and it is obvious you hate the truth. The Supremacy Clause pertains to a conflict of laws. The the Bill of Rights originally did not apply to the States, there was no conflict between the inapplicable Bill of Rights and any State laws. The members of the union are the States (Art. 8). The States ratified the amendments called the Bill of Rights to place clear restraints on the powers of the Federal government. Amendments to the Federal charter, limiting the powers of the Federal government, do not apply to the States. The Bill of Rights limits and restrains Federal power, it does not contain any grant or authorization of Federal power. You can keep quoting the Supremacy Clause, but in the context of the original Bill of Rights and State law, it did not do anything, as it created no conflict of laws. When the First Amendment says, "Congress shall pass no law," it speaks to the Federal Congress only. That is why 225 years of American court opinions unanimously say you are full of shit and do not know what you are talking about. Armstrong v. Exceptional Child Ctr., Inc., 135 S.Ct. 1378 (2015), Opinion of the Court by Scalia, J. Idiot tpaine thinking he is responding to nolu chan: “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” It is apparent that this Clause creates a rule of decision: [tpaine #90] A "rule of decision"? --- Who in hell made up that OPINION? And why should I care? [nc] Antonin Scalia "made up that Opinion," and you should care because he did it as an Associate Justice writing a majority opinion of the U.S. Supreme court. [tpaine #90] You are paraphrasing the words as written to make another OPINION, --- You really can't help yourself, can you.... [nc] Scalia was writing a majority Opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court. [tpaine #90] You're simply making up more opinions on what the supremacy clause means. -- Its apparent you can't stop this inane form of argument. [nc] Justice Scalia was writing a majority Opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court pertaining to what the supremacy clause means. It speaks loudly of your intellect that you find his form of argument to be inane.
Get lost... -- Or continue to make a punk fool of yourself. -- I'm indifferent to your foul idiocies. No, it's obvious that you will continue to insist in making a fool of yourself, repeating opinions that prove nothing. Continue if you must, and I will continue to comment and to laugh at your foolish behavior. ---- I cited our Constitution, [Art VI] which it's obvious you hate. Yep --- Within the bounds of Constitutional restraints, which restraints include Art VI.. --- Thus, if a State law conflicts with the 2nd Amendment, -- the courts must decide on the supremacy of the Constitution.
AMERICUS, JULY TERM, 1846 251 Nunn vs. The State of Georgia The above, quoted from Nunn, destroys your position that prior to the 14th, that there was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States.
"It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases must, of necessity, expound and interpret that rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the courts must decide on the operation of each." Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (1 Cranch) 137; 2 L. Ed. 60 (1803). Court opinions show what the law is, as opposed to what tpaine wwants it to be. What is obvious is that you do not understand Article VI any better than you understand the rest of the Constitution. I quoted court opinions about the Supremacy Clause and it is obvious you hate the truth. The Supremacy Clause pertains to a conflict of laws. The the Bill of Rights originally did not apply to the States, there was no conflict between the inapplicable Bill of Rights and any State laws. The members of the union are the States (Art. 8). The States ratified the amendments called the Bill of Rights to place clear restraints on the powers of the Federal government. Amendments to the Federal charter, limiting the powers of the Federal government, do not apply to the States. The Bill of Rights limits and restrains Federal power, it does not contain any grant or authorization of Federal power. You can keep quoting the Supremacy Clause, but in the context of the original Bill of Rights and State law, it did not do anything, as it created no conflict of laws. When the First Amendment says, "Congress shall pass no law," it speaks to the Federal Congress only. That is why 225 years of American court opinions unanimously say you are full of shit and do not know what you are talking about. Armstrong v. Exceptional Child Ctr., Inc., 135 S.Ct. 1378 (2015), Opinion of the Court by Scalia, J. Idiot tpaine thinking he is responding to nolu chan: “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” It is apparent that this Clause creates a rule of decision: [nc] Antonin Scalia "made up that Opinion," and you should care because he did it as an Associate Justice writing a majority opinion of the U.S. Supreme court. [tpaine #90] You are paraphrasing the words as written to make another OPINION, --- You really can't help yourself, can you.... [nc] Scalia was writing a majority Opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court. [tpaine #90] You're simply making up more opinions on what the supremacy clause means. -- Its apparent you can't stop this inane form of argument. [nc] Justice Scalia was writing a majority Opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court pertaining to what the supremacy clause means. It speaks loudly of your intellect that you find his form of argument to be inane. As for the Bill of Rights, here is another court opinion, there are lots and lots and lots of them. Montañez v. State Ins. Fund, 91 F.Supp.3d 291 (D.P.R. 2015)
AMERICUS, JULY TERM, 1846 251 Nunn vs. The State of Georgia The above, quoted from Nunn, destroys your position that prior to the 14th, There was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States. Hey shithead, link to any post where I said that "prior to the 14th, There was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States." And, the Georgia state court in 1846 cannot overrule the precedent set, and still in effect, by the unanimous U.S. Supreme Court in 1833. To the extent that Nunn is in conflict with Barron, it is null and void. I was well aware of this statement in Nunn and was just waiting for you to demostrate your ignorance. Thanks for playing, loser. Barron v. Baltimore, 32 U.S. 243, 247-48 (1833) Opinion of the Court, Chief Justice Marshall (7-0) https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/32/243/case.html Barron v. Mayor & City Council of Baltimore, 32 U.S. (7 Pet.) 243 (1833) ON WRIT OF ERROR TO THE COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE WESTERN SHORE OF THE STATE OF MARYLAND Syllabus The provision in the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States declaring that private property shall not be taken for public use without just compensation is intended solely as a limitation on the exercise of power by the Government of the United States, and is not applicable to the legislation of the States. The Constitution was ordained and established by the people of the United States for themselves, for their own government, and not for the government of individual States. [...] Mr. Chief Justice MARSHALL delivered the opinion of the court. [...] The question thus presented is, we think, of great importance, but not of much difficulty. The Constitution was ordained and established by the people of the United States for themselves, for their own government, and not for the government of the individual States. Each State established a constitution for itself, and in that constitution provided such limitations and restrictions on the powers of its particular government as its judgment dictated. The people of the United States framed such a government for the United States as they supposed best adapted to their situation and best calculated to promote their interests. The powers they conferred on this government were to be exercised by itself, and the limitations on power, if expressed in general terms, are naturally, and we think necessarily, applicable to the government created by the instrument. They are limitations of power granted in the instrument itself, not of distinct governments framed by different persons and for different purposes. If these propositions be correct, the fifth amendment must be understood as restraining the power of the General Government, not as applicable to the States. [...] The counsel for the plaintiff in error insists that the Constitution was intended to secure the people of the several States against the undue exercise of power by their respective State governments, as well as against that which might be attempted by their General Government. In support of this argument he relies on the inhibitions contained in the tenth section of the first article. We think that section affords a strong, if not a conclusive, argument in support of the opinion already indicated by the court. The preceding section contains restrictions which are obviously intended for the exclusive purpose of restraining the exercise of power by the departments of the General Government. Some of them use language applicable only to Congress, others are expressed in general terms. The third clause, for example, declares, that "no bill of attainder or ex post facto law shall be passed." No language can be more general, yet the demonstration is complete that it applies solely to the Government of the United States. In addition to the general arguments furnished by the instrument itself, some of which have been already suggested, the succeeding section, the avowed purpose of which is to restrain State legislation, contains in terms the very prohibition. It declares, that "no State shall pass any bill of attainder or ex post facto law." This provision, then, of the ninth section, however comprehensive its language, contains no restriction on State legislation. The ninth section having enumerated, in the nature of a bill of rights, the limitations intended to be imposed on the powers of the General Government, the tenth proceeds to enumerate those which were to operate on the State legislatures. These restrictions are brought together in the same section, and are by express words applied to the States. "No State shall enter into any treaty," &c. Perceiving, that in a constitution framed by the people of the United States, for the government of all, no limitation of the action of government on the people would apply to the State government, unless expressed in terms, the restrictions contained in the tenth section are in direct words so applied to the States. There is no doubt about what Barron said. Montañez v. State Ins. Fund, 91 F.Supp.3d 291 (D.P.R. 2015)
When the Supreme Court interpreted the first ten amendments of the constitution (the Bill of Rights) to be enforceable only against the federal government in Barron v. City of Baltimore, -- it eventually became necessary to enact the Fourteenth Amendment. The Fourteenth Amendment provides that “[n]o state shall ... deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 1. Needless to say, the property involved includes arms, and the liberty involves the right to bear arms, without infringements by ANY level of government.
A sure sign a poster is a mentally ill dimwitted retard .... This is a scientific fact. It has been proven 100% accurate. People who do this are officially categorized as mentally ill dimwitted retards. What is it? It's posting a link to some web site, without anything supporting or illuminating the poster's position. A variation on this deranged type of posting are posts that contain nothing but personal attacks and name calling, lacking any substance and failing to actually promote critical thinking or to promote or defend a sensible and sane position. Mentally ill retards use this technique because they became exhausted trying to write something sane and sensible, or they were so proud of having finally written something that wasn't totally retarded they find themselves compelled to keep reposting it. Why, you might ask, is this a sure sign of mentally ill retards? Because these people don't have the mental horsepower to articulate a cogent statement. They have to rely on web sites to do their speaking. Because they're mentally ill retards. 97% of mental health experts agree. Strange but true......... Gatlin Gatlin just posted this rant on another thread, and it described Nolu Chan's posts on this thread so well (slightly exaggerated of course), -- I'm reposting it WITHOUT his permission... Sorry bout that...
The Fourteenth Amendment provides that “[n]o state shall ... deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 1. Needless to say, the property involved includes arms, and the liberty involves the right to bear arms, without infringements by ANY level of government. What a load of horseshit. The Supreme Court never interpreted the first eight amendments to apply to the States, and Barron was in 1833. The 14th Amendment was a power grab in the post-Civil War era. That power grab has continued until the the Federal government can tell the girls to shower with the boys, and the boys to shower with the girls, and you approve of the power grab. As Justice Harlan said in his opinion in Duncan v. Lousiana, 3. The locus classicus for this viewpoint is The Federalist No. 51 (Madison). 4. The Bill of Rights was opposed by Hamilton and other proponents of a strong central government. See The Federalist No. 84; see generally C. Rossiter, 1787: The Grand Convention 284, 302-303. 5. In Barron v. Baltimore, supra, at 250, Chief Justice Marshall said, "These amendments demanded security against the apprehended encroachments of the general government — not against those of the local governments." The Civil War Amendments dramatically altered the relation of the Federal Government to the States. The first section of the Fourteenth Amendment imposes highly significant restrictions on state action. But the restrictions are couched in very broad and general terms: citizenship; privileges and immunities; due process of law; equal protection of the laws. Consequently, for 100 years this Court has been engaged in the difficult process Professor Jaffe has well called "the search for intermediate premises."[6] The question has been, Where does the Court properly look to find the specific rules that define and give content to such terms as "life, liberty, or property" and "due process of law"? A few members of the Court have taken the position that the intention of those who drafted the first section of the Fourteenth Amendment was simply, and exclusively, to make the provisions of the first eight Amendments applicable to state action.[7] This view has never been accepted by this Court.
The Fourteenth Amendment provides that “[n]o state shall ... deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 1. Needless to say, the property involved includes arms, and the liberty involves the right to bear arms, without infringements by ANY level of government. That's it.. That's all you've been saying for over 100 posts, along with posting volumes of court opinions, opinions that do NOT affect our right to bear arms. Please continue making a fool of yourself..
This is one sorry attempt to rewrite the history of your demonstrated assholery. You have been arguing that the original Bill of Rights applied to the States before the 14th Amendment. See your #49, #107 et al. At #107, you quoted a Georgia state court decision, Nunn v. State, 1 Kelly 243 (Ga. 1846), that, "The language of the second amendment is broad enough to embrace both Federal and State governments--nor is there anything in its terms which restricts its meaning." You concluded, "The above, quoted from Nunn, destroys your position that prior to the 14th, that there was NO opinion that the 2nd Amendment applied to the States." Of course, I have never claimed that there was no opinion that claimed the 2nd Amendment applied to the States, and you have been unable to cite any such claim by me. I have been citing and quoting the unanimous U.S. Supreme Court in Barron v. Mayor & City Council of Baltimore, 32 U.S. 243 (1833) since #23: Your assinine and assi-ten response at #25 (and repeated thereafter) was, "This SCOTUS opinion is not definitive, and does not change the clear words of our Constitution, which has always applied to the States, except where specifically noted." At #49 (and after) you stated, "The 2nd has always applied to the States, -- the 'incorporation' bull has just been used by statists to avoid compliance." In #112, to which you are now nominally responding, I provided an opinion of Justice Harlan. Opinion of Justice Harlan, 391 U.S. 171 (1968) That was 1968, 135 years after Barron v. Baltmore was handed down in 1833. In 2016, Barron now 183 continuous years of federal affirmation. Of course, Vidal v. Garcia-Padilla, proved that Barron v. Baltimore shows that Barron was still good law, and citable as precedent in 2016. There are thousands of federal court opinions to show Barron has been so cited since 1833. Vidal v. Garcia-Padilla, CIVIL NO. 14-1253 (PG) (D.P.R. Mar 08, 2016) At the time of its adoption in 1871, [sic - 1791] the Bill of Rights — and, particularly, the individual liberties secured within it — did not apply against the States. See Barron ex rel. Tiernan v. Baltimore, 32 U.S. 243, 250 (1833)(noting that the amendments found in the Bill of Rights "contain no expression indicating an intention to apply them to the State governments"); Lessee of Livingston v. Moore, 32 U.S. 469, 551-552 (1833)(same). Nevertheless, in the aftermath of the Civil War, the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution was adopted to protect certain individual rights from interference by the States. And thereafter, the Supreme Court began using that Amendment's Due Process Clause to "incorporate" a number of the individual liberties found in the first ten Amendments against the States You have dissed Justice Antonin Scalia. Armstrong v. Exceptional Child Ctr., Inc., 135 S.Ct. 1378 (2015), Opinion of the Court by Scalia, J. Idiot tpaine #90 thinking he is responding to nolu chan: “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” It is apparent that this Clause creates a rule of decision: [tpaine #90] A "rule of decision"? --- Who in hell made up that OPINION? And why should I care? [nc] Antonin Scalia "made up that Opinion," and you should care because he did it as an Associate Justice writing a majority opinion of the U.S. Supreme court. [tpaine #90] You are paraphrasing the words as written to make another OPINION, --- You really can't help yourself, can you.... [nc] Scalia was writing a majority Opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court. [tpaine #90] You're simply making up more opinions on what the supremacy clause means. -- Its apparent you can't stop this inane form of argument. [nc] Justice Scalia was writing a majority Opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court pertaining to what the supremacy clause means. It speaks loudly of your intellect that you find his form of argument to be inane. You have dissed Chief Justice Marshall with a non-responsive ad hominem attack: Lest we forget, John Marshall was one of the Founding Fathers. He would know what he's talking about. misterwhite John Marshall was a founding father who insisted that States could ignore our individual rights as outlined in the Constitution. And lest we forget, misterwhite insists that States can ignore our right to bear arms. Can you name a single Supreme Court justice in the past 183 years, preferably who opined on the issue, whose court opinions are worthy of your respect? Remember what you claimed and forget your attempt to rewrite history, you sorry sack of shit. tpaine #49:
Today's slaughter in Orlando should make you rethink your support for States having the power to ignore our 2nd Amendment rights, -- in that 50 people died, unable to defend themselves. But I know you won't. --- Be ashamed.
Factually stating the law as it actually exists, rather than spouting ridiculous bullshit as you do, neither supports nor oppose a law. You should rethink your support for the 14th Amendment which provides a basis for Federally enforced gay marriage and boys showering with girls, and girls showering with boys. But why should yukon/tpaine object to that? You are obviously desperate to change the topic of conversation as you have no answers for your predicament. Your #114 did not respond to #113. It appears you cannot. Not one Supreme Court justice can equal your legal expertise and meet your standards. And you can't just pick one at random because you do not know what they said. Because of your bad case of arseface, I understand you are trying to figure out if I shoved your bullshit down your throat or up your ass. And you are still hiding from #40 Read below: --- "on a presentment or indictment" Read again stupid: "Amendment V No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury," States use neither a presentment nor an indictment of a grand jury. A grand jury is required for a Federal felony prosecution but not for a State prosecution. Get your head out of your ass. Learn what a presentment is dumbshit. Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Edition Perhaps you should take a remedial course in reading comprehension? No, you are too ignorant of the law to know what a presentment is, and too lazy to look up a legal term you do not know. You blather on only to prove to the world that you have no clue what you are talking about. For a major Federal crime, a grand jury is mandatory per the 5th Amendment. For a State prosecution is is not, depending on State law. Most states use an information, with no grand jury presentment or indictment involved, as no grand jury is involved. How can that be if the 5th Amendment applies to the States? *** C R I C K E T S *** IGNORED at #43, #51, #56, and #59. Were you are too ignorant of the law to know what a presentment is? Were you too lazy to look up a legal term you do not know? Were you both too lazy and ignorant to understand the legal term presentment? And I might as well give you another quote from a Framer of the 14th Amendment destroys your bullshit that the Bill of Rights always applied to the States. John Bingham, co-author of the 14th Amendment, Congressional Globe, 40th Cong, 1st Sess, Jan 14, 1868, pp 514-15: [...] There is not an intelligent man in America but knows that this spirit and intent of the Constitution was most flagrantly violated long anterior to the rebellion, and that the Government was powerless to remedy it by law. That amendment proposes hereafter that this great wrong shall be remedied by putting a limitation expressly into the Constitution, coupled with a grant of power to enforce it by law, so that when either Ohio or South Carolina or any other State shall in its madness or its folly refuse to the gentleman or his children or to me or to mine any of the rights which pertain to American citizenship or to a common humanity, there will be redress for the wrong through the power and majesty of American law. Which proves that tpaine is not an intelligent man.
You're becoming more and more desperate, and thus amusing. Youve been trying to change the subject from guns to gay rights: -- Then you follow up with this howler: I'm in no predicament, you are, --- in that you've failed to explain WHY you support the power of States to ignore our rights to bear arms.
Your support for the extremely Statist 14th Amendment and its massive transfier of power to create the all-powerful Federal leviathan that can order the States to do such things is what is amusing. Your inability to defend your bullshit is amusing. It is fun to watch you squirm in the manner of a dishonorable asshole.
Yes, you do, because you are desperate and obsessive. But don't let me stop the fun. --- Continue if you please.
Repeated at #109 misterwhite and I were having a pleasant conversation about the early gun laws largely concerning concealed weapons. I provided the opinion in Nunn v. State 1 Kelly 243 (Ga. 1846). Nunn involved concealed weapons laws and spoke of the earlier Kentucky case, Bliss v. Commonwealth (Ky. 1822) and the Alabama case State v. Reid, (Ala. 1840), also involving state concealed weapons laws. Nunn is harmless. It does not destroy anybody's position on whether the Bill of Rights restrained the states prior to selective incorporation via the 14th Amendment. And then tpaine came along to defecate upon the thread, carryuing on an argument from another thread. As Nunn was clearly contrary to the U.S. Supreme Court opinion in Barron v. Baltimore 32 U.S. 243 (1833), it could never survive legal challenge. tpaine continued to prattle on that the Supreme Court opinion made no difference and repeat that the state court opinion in Nunn destroyed by position that the Bill of Rights did not restrain the states prior to selective incorporation via the 14th Amendment. By an act of sheer good fortune, I not only have the opinion in Barron but I also have the Georgia Supreme Court opinion in State v. Hill, 53 Ga. 472 (1874). State v. Hill, 53 Ga. 472 (1874) Nunn, which was clearly contrary to the U.S. Supreme Court opinion in Barron regarding a supposed application of the Bill of Rights to the states, was overturned by the Georgia Supreme Court 142 years ago.
tpaine in review tpaine at 25: "This SCOTUS opinion [Barron v. Baltimore] is not definitive, and does not change the clear words of our Constitution, which has always applied to the States, except where specifically noted." Cooper v Aaron, 358 US 1 (1958): tpaine attempting to explain why state do not need to use a grand jury, but demonstrating he does not know what a presentment is. As explained at #40 a presentment is an act of a grand jury. States file an information by a qualified official, needing neither an indictment nor a presentment of a grand jury. States do not need a grand jury at all, despite the Amendment 5 "presentment or indictment of a grand jury" requirement. That part of the Bill of Rights has yet to be incorporated against the states. This is nonsense. Who is empowered to declare an amendment to the Constitution to be unconstitutional? How can a part of the Constitution be unconstitutional? In which he makes an ass of himself dissing a SCOTUS opinion by Scalia, thinking he is dissing nolu chan. Armstrong v. Exceptional Child Ctr., Inc., 135 S.Ct. 1378 (2015), Opinion of the Court by Scalia, J. “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” It is apparent that this Clause creates a rule of decision: [tpaine #90] A "rule of decision"? --- Who in hell made up that OPINION? And why should I care? [nc] Antonin Scalia "made up that Opinion," and you should care because he did it as an Associate Justice writing a majority opinion of the U.S. Supreme court. [tpaine #90] You are paraphrasing the words as written to make another OPINION, --- You really can't help yourself, can you.... [nc] Scalia was writing a majority Opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court. [tpaine #90] You're simply making up more opinions on what the supremacy clause means. -- Its apparent you can't stop this inane form of argument. [nc] Justice Scalia was writing a majority Opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court pertaining to what the supremacy clause means. It speaks loudly of your intellect that you find his form of argument to be inane.
Yes, you do, because you are desperate and obsessive. But don't let me stop the fun. --- Continue if you please. Good grief, ---how long do you intend to beat this dead imaginary horse? Continue if you must, but I'm starting to fear for your sanity. Get help...
You have maintained that the Bill of Rights has always restrained the States since 1791. I have maintained the reality that you are full of shit, and have cited and quoted federal court opinions documenting that you are full of shit. There are many such court opinions. I intend to continue citing court opinions one day longer than continue to spew bullshit. Good grief, ---how long do you intend to spew bullshit? Johnston v. Earle, 245 F.2d 793 (9th Cir. 1957) On its return to the district court, that court, in a very able opinion by Judge Mathes, held that no federal cause of action existed for the acts of federal officials violating the Fourth and Fifth Amendments.4 His reasoning is that the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment applies only to the federal government,5 and not to individuals.6 5 That the Fifth Amendment applies only to the acts of the federal government is settled beyond doubt. See, e.g., Spies v. People of the State of Illinois, 1887, 123 U.S. 131, 166, 8 S.Ct. 21, 31 L.Ed. 80; Burdeau v. McDowell, 1921, 256 U.S. 465, 476, 41 S.Ct. 574, 65 L. Ed. 1048. In Feldman v. United States, 1944, 322 U.S. 487, 64 S.Ct. 1082, 88 L.Ed. 1408, the Court said: "* * * [F]or more than one hundred years, ever since Barron v. [Mayor and City Council of City of] Baltimore [1833], 7 Pet. 243 [ 32 U.S. 243], 8 L.Ed. 672, one of the principles of our Constitution has been that these [the Fourth and Fifth] Amendments protect only against invasion of civil liberties by the Government whose conduct they alone limit. Brown v. Walker, 161 U.S. 591, 606, 16 S.Ct. 644, 650, 40 L.Ed. 819; Jack v. [State of] Kansas, 199 U.S. 372, 380, 26 S.Ct. 73, 75, 50 L.Ed. 234; Twining v. [State of] New Jersey, 211 U.S. 78, 29 S.Ct. 14, 53 L.Ed. 97." 322 U.S. at page 490, 64 S.Ct. 1083. 6 Mr. Justice Black stated in Bell v. Hood that "whether federal courts can grant money recovery for damages said to have been suffered as a result of federal officers violating the Fourth and Fifth Amendments" is a question which "has never been specifically decided by this Court." 327 U.S. at page 684, 66 S.Ct. 777. In Weeks v. United States, 1914, 232 U.S. 383, 34 S.Ct. 341, 58 L.Ed. 652, however, the Supreme Court clearly indicated that there was no civil action for damages based upon the Fourth Amendment against officers who had violated it seizing plaintiff's property. Speaking of the possible nonfederal liability of the offending officers, the Court said: "What remedies the defendant may have against them we need not inquire, as the 4th Amendment is not directed to individual misconduct of such officials. Its limitations reach the Federal government and its agencies." 232 U.S. at page 398, 34 S.Ct. 346. In fine, the federal government has created no cause of action enforceable in its courts for such torts under the state law, and hence the district court here lacked jurisdiction of the subject matter.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAgain. Originally, NONE of the Bill of Rights applied to the States.
#85. To: tpaine (#84)
Please keep wasting your time posting OPINIONS that buttress your opinion above..
Now, sir, here is a mass of privileges, immunities, and rights, some of them secured by the second section of the fourth article of the Constitution, which I have recited, some by the first eight amendments of the Constitution; and it is a fact well worthy of attention that the course of decision of our courts and the present settled doctrine is, that all these immunities, privileges, rights, thus guarantied by the Constitution or recognized by it, are secured to the citizen solely as a citizen of the United States and as a party in their courts. They do not operate in the slightest degree as a restraint or prohibition upon State legislation. States are not affected by them, and it has been repeatedly held that the restriction contained in the Constitution against the taking of private property for public use without just compensation is not a restriction upon State legislation, but applies only to the legislation of Congress.
#86. To: nolu chan (#85)
As you wish. And you keep avoiding posting anything that buttresses your bullshit.
#87. To: tpaine (#86)
Please, keep wasting your time posting OPINIONS that buttress your opinion above..
Let us now refer to the provisions of the proposed amendment.
#88. To: nolu chan (#87)
As you wish. And you keep avoiding posting anything that buttresses your bullshit.
#89. To: tpaine (#88)
"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."
12 The Supremacy Clause, Art. VI, cl. 2, reads:
#90. To: nolu chan (#89)
It is apparent that this Clause creates a rule of decision:
Courts “shall” regard the “Constitution,” and all laws “made in Pursuance thereof,” as “the supreme Law of the Land.” They must not give effect to state laws that conflict with federal laws.
---- It instructs courts what to do when state and federal law clash, but is silent regarding who may enforce federal laws in court, and in what circumstances they may do so.
As Supremacy Clause pertains to a conflict of laws. As the Bill of Rights originally did not apply to the States, there was no conflict between the inapplicable Bill of Rights and any State laws.
The members of the union are the States (Art. 8). The States ratified the amendments called the Bill of Rights to place clear restraints on the powers of the Federal government.
Amendments to the Federal charter, limiting the powers of the Federal government, do not apply to the States.
The Bill of Rights limits and restrains Federal power, it does not contain any grant or authorization of Federal power.
You can keep quoting the Supremacy Clause, but in the context of the original Bill of Rights and State law, it did not do amything, as it created no conflict of laws. When the First Amendment says, "Congress shall pass no law," it speaks to the Federal Congress only. That is why 225 years of American court opinions unanimously say you are full of shit and do not know what you are talking about.
#91. To: tpaine (#90)
[nc #89] 12 The Supremacy Clause, Art. VI, cl. 2, reads:
“This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.”
It is apparent that this Clause creates a rule of decision:
[nc #89] Courts “shall” regard the “Constitution,” and all laws “made in Pursuance thereof,” as “the supreme Law of the Land.” They must not give effect to state laws that conflict with federal laws.
[nc #89] ---- It instructs courts what to do when state and federal law clash, but is silent regarding who may enforce federal laws in court, and in what circumstances they may do so.
#92. To: tpaine (#90)
Hamilton wrote that the Supremacy Clause “only declares a truth, which flows immediately and necessarily from the institution of a Federal Government.” The Federalist No. 33, p. 207 (J. Cooke ed.1961). And Story described the Clause as “a positive affirmance of that, which is necessarily implied.” 3 Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States § 1831, p. 693 (1833). These descriptions would have been grossly inapt if the Clause were understood to give affected parties a constitutional (and hence congressionally unalterable) right to enforce federal laws against the States.
#93. To: tpaine (#90)
Araya's Fifth Amendment claim against Chase and Shapiro & Burson is insufficient to sustain jurisdiction because it has been foreclosed by the Supreme Court. See Steel Co., 523 U.S. at 89, 118 S.Ct. 1003. It is beyond dispute that the Fifth Amendment “appl[ies] to and restrict[s] only the Federal Government and not private persons.” Pub. Utils. Comm'n of D.C. v. Pollak, 343 U.S. 451, 461, 72 S.Ct. 813, 96 L.Ed. 1068 (1952); see also San Francisco Arts & Athletics, Inc. v. U.S. Olympic Committee, 483 U.S. 522, 542, 107 S.Ct. 2971, 97 L.Ed.2d 427 (1987) (“The fundamental inquiry is whether the USOC is a governmental actor to whom the prohibitions of [the Fifth Amendment] apply.”); Corrigan v. Buckley, 271 U.S. 323, 330, 46 S.Ct. 521, 70 L.Ed. 969 (1926) (“The Fifth Amendment is a limitation only upon the powers of the General Government and is not directed against the action of individuals.”) (citations omitted) (internal quotation marks omitted); Barron v. Baltimore, 32 U.S. 243, 250–51, 7 Pet. 243, 8 L.Ed. 672 (1833) (“[T]he fifth amendment to the constitution ... is intended solely as a limitation on the exercise of power by the government of the United States.”). There is no plausible argument that either Chase or Shapiro & Burson is a governmental actor, and indeed Araya's complaint does not even allege that either defendant is a governmental actor. The Fifth Amendment claim is thus an insufficient basis for federal subject matter jurisdiction. Understandably, the District Court did not rely upon the takings claim as a basis for jurisdiction when it denied Araya's request to remand, and it later granted the motion to dismiss that claim.
#94. To: nolu chan (#92)
#95. To: nolu chan (#92)
Justice Scalia continued in Armstrong v. Exceptional Child Ctr., Inc., 135 S.Ct. 1378 (2015).
#96. To: GrandIsland (#74)
But don't lie.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
#97. To: nolu chan (#93)
It is beyond dispute that the Fifth Amendment “appl[ies] to and restrict[s] only the Federal Government and not private persons.”
#98. To: tpaine (#94)
[SCALIA] 12 The Supremacy Clause, Art. VI, cl. 2, reads:
[SCALIA] Courts “shall” regard the “Constitution,” and all laws “made in Pursuance thereof,” as “the supreme Law of the Land.” They must not give effect to state laws that conflict with federal laws.
[SCALIA] ---- It instructs courts what to do when state and federal law clash, but is silent regarding who may enforce federal laws in court, and in what circumstances they may do so.
As Supremacy Clause pertains to a conflict of laws. As the Bill of Rights originally did not apply to the States, there was no conflict between the inapplicable Bill of Rights and any State laws.
Again. Originally, NONE of the Bill of Rights applied to the States.
I'll repeat my last post, which buttresses my position, which you cannot refute, and is part of our Constitution, NOT bullshit: ---
I'll repeat my last post, which buttresses my position, which you cannot refute, and is part of our Constitution, NOT bullshit: ---
The district court granted summary judgment for the Providers. The court rejected the argument that the Providers lacked a valid cause of action, holding that Ninth Circuit precedent “clear[ly]” established that “providers have standing under the Supremacy Clause” to challenge a state law reducing reimbursement rates in violation of § 30(A). On the merits, Chief Judge Winmill concluded that the state’s continued use of the 2006 reimbursement rates violated § 30(A) because the rates did not incorporate “actual provider costs.”
#99. To: tpaine (#95)
Hamilton wrote that the Supremacy Clause “only declares a truth, which flows immediately and necessarily from the institution of a Federal Government.” The Federalist No. 33, p. 207 (J. Cooke ed.1961). And Story described the Clause as “a positive affirmance of that, which is necessarily implied.” 3 Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States § 1831, p. 693 (1833). These descriptions would have been grossly inapt if the Clause were understood to give affected parties a constitutional (and hence congressionally unalterable) right to enforce federal laws against the States.
#100. To: tpaine (#97)
It is beyond dispute that the Fifth Amendment “appl[ies] to and restrict[s] only the Federal Government and not private persons.”
When adopted, the Bill of Rights protected individuals only against the federal government. See, e.g., Barron v. City of Baltimore 32 U.S. 243, 247, 7 Pet. 243, 8 L.Ed. 672 (1833). Under the "incorporation" doctrine, however, "many of the rights guaranteed by the first eight Amendments to the Constitution have been held [by the Supreme Court] to be protected against state action by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment." Duncan v. Louisiana, 391 U.S. 145, 149, 88 S.Ct. 1444, 20 L.Ed.2d 491 (1968)
#101. To: Deckard (#96)
Bullshit - you spent your entire career as a cop, and as we all know, cops lie.
#102. To: nolu chan (#100)
Actually, I posted a majority Opinion of the United States Supreme Court, and the holding is the law of the land. Deal with it.
It is beyond dispute that the Fifth Amendment “appl[ies] to and restrict[s] only the Federal Government and not private persons.”
Actually, I quoted the opinion of the Court, so fuck you.
I will keep citing and quoting as there is no end of court opinions which say you are full of shit. With 225 years of opinions to work with, it is obvious that you cannot quote a single one that says the Bill of Rights applies to and restricts the States.
#103. To: tpaine (#102)
I don't quote court opinions, I cited our Constitution, [Art VI] which it's obvious you hate.
[SCALIA] The Supremacy Clause, Art. VI, cl. 2, reads:
[SCALIA] Courts “shall” regard the “Constitution,” and all laws “made in Pursuance thereof,” as “the supreme Law of the Land.” They must not give effect to state laws that conflict with federal laws.
[SCALIA] ---- It instructs courts what to do when state and federal law clash, but is silent regarding who may enforce federal laws in court, and in what circumstances they may do so.
Over time, the Supreme Court has construed the substantive component of the Due Process Clause to protect two types of "liberty." It incorporates most of the guarantees of the Bill of Rights — which originally restricted only the Federal Government, see Barron v. Baltimore, 32 U.S. 243, 247, 7 Pet. 243, 8 L.Ed. 672 (1833) — and protects these rights from state infringement. And it protects other "fundamental rights" not expressly mentioned in the Bill of Rights but "implicit in the concept of ordered liberty,"
#104. To: nolu chan (#103)
It is beyond dispute that the Fifth Amendment “appl[ies] to and restrict[s] only the Federal Government and not private persons.”
Actually, I quoted the opinion of the Court, so fuck you.
I will keep citing and quoting as there is no end of court opinions which say you are full of shit. With 225 years of opinions to work with, it is obvious that you cannot quote a single one that says the Bill of Rights applies to and restricts the States.
What is obvious is that you do not understand Article VI any better than you understand the rest of the Constitution.
#105. To: tpaine (#104)
I don't quote court opinions, as they prove nothing. ---- I cited our Constitution, [Art VI] which it's obvious you hate.
The vicinage clause of the Sixth Amendment guarantees an accused "the right to a . . . jury of the . . . district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law." U.S. Const. amend. VI. At the time of its adoption, the Sixth Amendment, like the rest of the Bill of Rights, applied only to the federal government and therefore only to federal prosecutions. Cf. Barron v. Baltimore, 32 U.S. 243, 247, 250-51, 7 Pet. 243, 8 L.Ed. 672 (1833). However, the Fourteenth Amendment Due Process Clause extended certain rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights to protection against state action. See Duncan v. Louisiana, 391 U.S. 145, 147-48, 88 S.Ct. 1444, 20 L.Ed.2d 491 (1968). Not all of the rights guaranteed by the Sixth Amendment were incorporated; rather, only those rights that are "fundamental to the American scheme of justice" or "essential to a fair trial" apply to the states. Id. at 148-49, 88 S.Ct. 1444.
[SCALIA] The Supremacy Clause, Art. VI, cl. 2, reads:
[SCALIA] Courts “shall” regard the “Constitution,” and all laws “made in Pursuance thereof,” as “the supreme Law of the Land.” They must not give effect to state laws that conflict with federal laws.
[SCALIA] ---- It instructs courts what to do when state and federal law clash, but is silent regarding who may enforce federal laws in court, and in what circumstances they may do so.
#106. To: nolu chan (#105)
What is obvious is that you do not understand Article VI any better than you understand the rest of the Constitution.
"It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases must, of necessity, expound and interpret that rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the courts must decide on the operation of each."
#107. To: nolu chan (#105)
The language of the second amendment is broad enough to embrace both Federal and State governments--nor is there anything in its terms which restricts its meaning. The preamble which was prefixed to these amendments shows, that they originated in the fear that the powers of the general government were not sufficiently limited. Several of the States in their act of ratification recommended that further restrictive clauses should he added. And in the first session of the first Congress, ten of these amendments having been agreed to by that body, and afterwards sanctioned by three- fourths of the States, became a part of the Constitution. But admitting all this, does it follow that because the people refused to delegate to the general government the power to take from them the right to keep and bear arms, that they designed to rest it in the State governments? Is this a right reserved to the States or to themselves? Is it not an inalienable right, which lies at the bottom of every free government? We do not believe that, because the people withheld this arbitrary power of disfranchisement from Congress, they ever intended to confer it on the local legislatures. This right is too dear to be confided to a republican legislature. Questions under some of these amendments, it is true, can only arise under the laws and Constitution of the United States. But there are other provisions in them, which were never intended to be thus restricted, but were designed for the benefit of every citizen of the Union in all courts and in all places; and the people of the several States, in ratifying them in their respective State conventions, have virtually adopted them
#108. To: tpaine (#106)
No, it's obvious that you will continue to insist in making a fool of yourself, repeating opinions that prove nothing.
[SCALIA] The Supremacy Clause, Art. VI, cl. 2, reads:
[tpaine #90] A "rule of decision"? --- Who in hell made up that OPINION? And why should I care? [SCALIA] Courts “shall” regard the “Constitution,” and all laws “made in Pursuance thereof,” as “the supreme Law of the Land.” They must not give effect to state laws that conflict with federal laws.
[SCALIA] ---- It instructs courts what to do when state and federal law clash, but is silent regarding who may enforce federal laws in court, and in what circumstances they may do so.
The Fifth Amendment's Due Process right stems from the following provision: “[n]o person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law ...” U.S. Const. amend. V. However, the Supreme Court interpreted the first ten amendments of the constitution (the Bill of Rights) to be enforceable only against the federal government. Barron v. City of Baltimore, 32 U.S. 243, 7 Pet. 243, 8 L.Ed. 672 (1833) (“The constitution was ordained and established by the people of the United States for themselves, for their own government, and not for the government of the individual states.”). Subsequently, the Fourteenth Amendment—which contains its own Due Process clause—was enacted. The Fourteenth Amendment provides that “[n]o state shall ... deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” (emphasis provided). U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 1.
#109. To: tpaine (#107)
The language of the second amendment is broad enough to embrace both Federal and State governments--nor is there anything in its terms which restricts its meaning. The preamble which was prefixed to these amendments shows, that they originated in the fear that the powers of the general government were not sufficiently limited. Several of the States in their act of ratification recommended that further restrictive clauses should he added. And in the first session of the first Congress, ten of these amendments having been agreed to by that body, and afterwards sanctioned by three-fourths of the States, became a part of the Constitution. But admitting all this, does it follow that because the people refused to delegate to the general government the power to take from them the right to keep and bear arms, that they designed to rest it in the State governments? Is this a right reserved to the States or to themselves? Is it not an inalienable right, which lies at the bottom of every free government? We do not believe that, because the people withheld this arbitrary power of disfranchisement from Congress, they ever intended to confer it on the local legislatures. This right is too dear to be confided to a republican legislature. Questions under some of these amendments, it is true, can only arise under the laws and Constitution of the United States. But there are other provisions in them, which were never intended to be thus restricted, but were designed for the benefit of every citizen of the Union in all courts and in all places; and the people of the several States, in ratifying them in their respective State conventions, have virtually adopted them
U.S. Supreme Court
The Fifth Amendment's Due Process right stems from the following provision: “[n]o person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law ...” U.S. Const. amend. V. However, the Supreme Court interpreted the first ten amendments of the constitution (the Bill of Rights) to be enforceable only against the federal government. Barron v. City of Baltimore, 32 U.S. 243, 7 Pet. 243, 8 L.Ed. 672 (1833) (“The constitution was ordained and established by the people of the United States for themselves, for their own government, and not for the government of the individual states.”). Subsequently, the Fourteenth Amendment—which contains its own Due Process clause—was enacted. The Fourteenth Amendment provides that “[n]o state shall ... deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” (emphasis provided). U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 1.
#110. To: nolu chan (#108)
#111. To: nolu chan, gatlin, y'all (#109)
Ah shit, not another "copie and pastie" from you ...
#112. To: tpaine (#110)
When the Supreme Court interpreted the first ten amendments of the constitution (the Bill of Rights) to be enforceable only against the federal government in Barron v. City of Baltimore, -- it eventually became necessary to enact the Fourteenth Amendment.
I believe I am correct in saying that every member of the Court for at least the last 135 years has agreed that our Founders did not consider the requirements of the Bill of Rights so fundamental that they should operate directly against the States.[2] They were wont to believe rather that the security of liberty in America rested primarily upon the dispersion of governmental power across a federal system.[3] The Bill of Rights was considered unnecessary by some[4] but insisted upon by others in order to curb the possibility of abuse of power by the strong central government they were creating.[5]
2. Barron v. Baltimore, 7 Pet. 243 (1833), held that the first eight Amendments restricted only federal action.
6. Jaffe, Was Brandeis an Activist? The Search for Intermediate Premises, 80 Harv. L. Rev. 986 (1967).
7. See Adamson v. California, 332 U.S. 46, 71 (dissenting opinion of BLACK, J.); O'Neil v. Vermont, 144 U.S. 323, 366, 370 (dissenting opinion of Harlan, J.) (1892); H. Black, "Due Process of Law," in A Constitutional Faith 23 (1968).
#113. To: nolu chan (#112)
What a load of horseshit.
#114. To: tpaine (#113)
The Fourteenth Amendment provides that “[n]o state shall ... deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” U.S. Const. amend. XIV, § 1.
But it is universally understood, it is a part of the history of the day, that the great revolution which established the Constitution of the United States was not effected without immense opposition. Serious fears were extensively entertained that those powers which the patriot statesmen who then watched over the interests of our country deemed essential to union, and to the attainment of those invaluable objects for which union was sought, might be exercised in a manner dangerous to liberty. In almost every convention by which the Constitution was adopted, amendments to guard against the abuse of power were recommended. These amendments demanded security against the apprehended encroachments of the General Government -- not against those of the local governments. In compliance with a sentiment thus generally expressed, to quiet fears thus extensively entertained, amendments were proposed by the required majority in Congress and adopted by the States. These amendments contain no expression indicating an intention to apply them to the State governments. This court cannot so apply them.
I believe I am correct in saying that every member of the Court for at least the last 135 years has agreed that our Founders did not consider the requirements of the Bill of Rights so fundamental that they should operate directly against the States.
B. The Doctrine of Selective Incorporation
[SCALIA] The Supremacy Clause, Art. VI, cl. 2, reads:
[SCALIA] Courts “shall” regard the “Constitution,” and all laws “made in Pursuance thereof,” as “the supreme Law of the Land.” They must not give effect to state laws that conflict with federal laws.
[SCALIA] ---- It instructs courts what to do when state and federal law clash, but is silent regarding who may enforce federal laws in court, and in what circumstances they may do so.
#14. To: misterwhite, Y'ALL (#13)
Mr. Chief Justice MARSHALL delivered the opinion of the court."
The 2nd has always applied to the States, -- the 'incorporation' bull has just been used by statists to avoid compliance.
#115. To: nolu chan (#114)
#116. To: tpaine, yukon, but i repeat myself (#115)
Today's slaughter in Orlando should make you rethink your support for States having the power to ignore our 2nd Amendment rights, -- in that 50 people died, unable to defend themselves.
Can you name a single Supreme Court justice in the past 183 years, preferably who opined on the issue, whose court opinions are worthy of your respect?
#40. To: tpaine (#39)
Read below: --- "on a presentment or indictment".
Presentment. The written notice taken by a grand jury of any offense, from their own knowledge or observation without any bill of indictment laid before them at the suit of the government. A presentment is an accusation, initiated by the grand jury itself, and in effect instruction that an indictment be drawn. U.S. v. Briggs, C.A.Fla., 514 F.2d 794, 804. A written accusation of crime made and returned by the grand jury upon its own initiative in the exercise of its lawful inquisitorial powers, is in the form of a bill of indictment, and in practice is signed individually by all the grand jurors who return it. See State v. Hudson, 487 Tenn.Cr.Ap S.W.2d 672, 674. See also Indictment; Information; Presenter.
States don't ignore it; -- they are empowered to use their own version of 'a presentment'.
We say to those States: " Before you send Representatives to this Hall you must accept the decree which twenty-three States of this Union have already solemnly ratified, declaring that no State of this Union shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States, nor shall any State deny to any person the equal protection of the laws."
#117. To: nolu chan (#116)
You should rethink your support for the 14th Amendment which provides a basis for Federally enforced gay marriage and boys showering with girls, and girls showering with boys. But why should yukon/tpaine object to that?
You are obviously desperate to change the topic of conversation as you have no answers for your predicament.
#118. To: tpaine, yukon, but i repeat myself (#117)
You're becoming more and more desperate, and thus amusing. Youve been trying to change the subject from guns to gay rights: --
You should rethink your support for the 14th Amendment which provides a basis for Federally enforced gay marriage and boys showering with girls, and girls showering with boys. But why should yukon/tpaine object to that?
Then you follow up with this howler:
You are obviously desperate to change the topic of conversation as you have no answers for your predicament.
#119. To: nolu Chan, but i repeat myself (#118)
#120. To: tpaine (#107)
tpaine #107: "AMERICUS, JULY TERM, 1846 251. Nunn vs. The State of Georgia. The above, quoted from Nunn, destroys your position that prior to the 14th, that there was NO opinionthat the 2nd Amendment applied to the States."
2. The other question made in this record is a far graver one. It is insisted that the act describing the offense charged and fixing the penalty, is an infringement of the right of the citizens of this state as guaranteed by the constitution of the United States and of this state. It is now well settled that the amendments to the constitution of the United States of March 4th, 1789, are all restrictions, not upon the states, but upon the United States. And this would seem to be the inevitable conclusion from the history of these amendments as well as from their nature and even their terms. I do not myself assent to that other limitation of the legislative powers of our general assembly insisted upon in the argument, and sometimes announced by courts, to-wit: the "higher law," which is appealed to as above even the constitution. At last, therefore, if this act be unconstitutional it must be because it is in conflict with our state constitution.
#121. To: tpaine (#119)
But don't let me stop the fun. --- Continue if you please.
tpaine at 20: "This SCOTUS opinion [McDonald quoting Barron v Baltimore] is not definitive, and does not change the clear words of our Constitution, which has always applied to the States, except where specifically noted."
Article VI of the Constitution makes the Constitution the “supreme Law of the Land.” In 1803, Chief Justice Marshall, speaking for a unanimous Court, referring to the Constitution as “the fundamental and paramount law of the nation,” declared in the notable case of Marbury v. Madison, 1 Cranch 137, 177, that “It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.” This decision declared the basic principle that the federal judiciary is supreme in the exposition of the law of the Constitution, and that principle has ever since been respected by this Court and the Country as a permanent and indispensable feature of our constitutional system. It follows that the interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment enunciated by this Court in the Brown case is the supreme law of the land, and Art. VI of the Constitution makes it of binding effect on the States “any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” Every state legislator and executive and judicial officer is solemnly committed by oath taken pursuant to Art. VI, cl. 3, “to support this Constitution.”
tpaine at 29: "States don't ignore it; -- they are empowered to use their own version of 'a presentment'."
tpaine at 52: "During a discussion with Nolu Chan, he asserted that an amendment repealing the 2nd could be ratified, and become a valid part of our Constitution. I contend such an amendment would be unconstitutional."
tpaine #90:
[SCALIA] The Supremacy Clause, Art. VI, cl. 2, reads:
[SCALIA] Courts “shall” regard the “Constitution,” and all laws “made in Pursuance thereof,” as “the supreme Law of the Land.” They must not give effect to state laws that conflict with federal laws.
[SCALIA] ---- It instructs courts what to do when state and federal law clash, but is silent regarding who may enforce federal laws in court, and in what circumstances they may do so.
#122. To: nolu chan (#121)
nolu Chan, but i repeat myself (#118)
tpaine in review ---
#123. To: tpaine (#122)
Good grief, ---how long do you intend to beat this dead imaginary horse?
In Bell v. Hood, the refusal of the district court to consider this question, and its affirmance by the court of appeals3 was reversed, and the cause returned to the district court to determine whether the complaint stated a federal cause of action.
3 Bell v. Hood, 9 Cir., 1945, 150 F.2d 96.
4 Bell v. Hood, D.C.S.D.Cal. 1947, 71 F. Supp. 813.
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