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Title: Disturbing Video Shows a Cop Brutally Beat a Child for Riding Her Bike, Charges HER with Assualt
Source:
Free Thought Project
URL Source: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/co ... -riding-bike-mall-parking-lot/
Published: May 14, 2016
Author: Matt Agorist
Post Date: 2016-05-14 12:42:40 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 29272
Comments: 194
Tacoma, WA — On May 24, 2014, 15-year-old Monique Tillman and her brother were riding their bikes when they were stopped and this young girl brutally assaulted by Tacoma Police Officer Jared Williams. Tillman and her brother had done nothing wrong, and were merely targetted by this ‘public servant’ because they had the unfortunate luck to have crossed paths with him. As the duo travelled home, they cut through a mall parking lot, as they had done countless times before. However, this time, Officer Williams was in that parking lot, in his full Tacoma Police department uniform, yet off-duty, working as mall security. As the teens travelled through the lot, Williams began pursuit of these hardened criminals and accused them of trespassing. Knowing they’d done nothing wrong, Monique attempted to explain to the officer that they cut through the parking lot all the time on their way home. However, this tyrant was having nothing of it. As the duo attempted to ride away from a man whose intentions were clearly unscrupulous, Williams attacked. A recently released surveillance video shows the disturbing scene that unfolded next. This heroic officer ripped the girl from her bike and slammed her up against a parked car with his hand around her neck. As the child struggled to breathe, this abusive tyrant grabbed her by the hair and flung her around like a rag doll. Clearly overpowering the small child, half his size, the officer wasn’t satisfied with the damage he’d inflicted so far. So, for good measure, Williams pulled out his taser and sent 50,000 volts into this poor girl. “He was choking me, grabbed me by my hair and tried to slam my face into the concrete. The next thing I know, I’m on the ground being tased,” Tillman said. Now face down, tasered, handcuffed and brutalized, Williams stood over his victim like a hunter and his kill. He had protected society from the likes of a dangerous brother and sister riding their bicycles. Williams then arrested Monique and charged her with resisting arrest and, get this, assault on an officer. After viewing the surveillance video of the incident, however, all of the charges were thrown out. Vito de la Cruz, Tillman’s attorney, has filed a lawsuit seeking damages from Officer Williams, the Simon Property Group who owns the Tacoma Mall and Universal Protection Services, the private security company in charge of Tacoma Mall security. “A child riding a bike should not have to worry that a police officer will stop her without legal cause and brutalize her,” said de la Cruz. “Our communities are weary of another African American child being hurt by unwarranted and excessive police force.” The Free Thought Project reached out the Tacoma PD to inquire about Williams’ current status and if any disciplinary action had been taken. However, our requests for comment were not returned. Below is what policing in modern day America has become.
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Tacoma residents say rowdy teens terrorizing neighborhood TACOMA, Wash. -- A Tacoma neighborhood is under siege by a group relentless teens. Since the summer months the group has terrorized innocent residents, who now say they've had enough. "Initially it kind of started with some kids, some school kids, getting off a bus right here," said Jon Jarmon, who lives in the neighborhood. South 45th Street near the Tacoma Mall has always been a busy residential area, but recently it's also become dangerous. For months neighbors say the teens have been harassing residents and vandalizing their homes and property. "You have no peace, no freedom," said Jarmon. Jarmon has shuttered his windows and even put up a net to prevent rocks from doing more damage to his Tacoma home. He has even captured video of the teens hurling rocks into houses and cars. "They're not only targeting me but they are targeting my neighbors as well," said Jarmon. Less than block away, neighbor Sam Pasana has a broken window in his SUV. "There's multiple neighbors here that have had their windows broken out," said Pasana, who lives on the Tacoma neighborhood. "If anyone has ever had a window broken out, it's pretty costly." And another neighbor a few homes away has been the victim of an attempted burglary. Neighbors say the teens also spew racial slurs on loud bullhorns in the middle of the night and even bang on front doors of homes and townhouses. "I feel like it's a ticking time bomb for this situation," said Pasana. Neighbors have contact police multiple times but say the problems haven't stopped. Even so, many residents say they love their community and won't let harassment and vandalism push them away. The community would like to start a neighborhood watch to shine a brighter light on these growing problems. We reached out to the Tacoma Police Department to talk about these issues but they were not available.
A couple of kids riding their bikes are "rowdy teens terrorizing neighborhood"? Look, I know you are one of the "cops are gods" contingent here at LF, but seriously? You really believe that the story you posted somehow justifies the cops behavior? Williams then arrested Monique and charged her with resisting arrest and, get this, assault on an officer. After viewing the surveillance video of the incident, however, all of the charges were thrown out. You must have missed that part. Cops ALWAYS charge the people they have beaten up with assault. It gives them paperwork "justification" to claim "I was only defending myself!" if the victim complains. Notice how "I was just defending myself!" is NEVER seen as justification for a citizen defending him or herself from attack by a cop,though. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Teens charged as adults in shooting near Tacoma Mall Transit Center Antione Trent and Isaac Miller, both 16, were arraigned Thursday on first- degree assault charges. Both pleaded not guilty, and Court Commissioner Meagan M. Foley set bail at $500,000 for each. The wounded teen remains in the hospital in critical condition. He underwent his fifth surgery Thursday. The shooting happened about 2:20 p.m. Saturday on South 47th Street. Charging papers gave this account: Miller and the 17-year-old were at the transit center together. Trent arrived on a bus. The teens interacted a few times before the 17-year-old punched Trent, starting a fist fight. Surveillance footage from the transit center and the bus showed the boys brawling. It then showed Trent lose a shoe and the 17-year-old stoop to pick it up. Trent pulled out a gun and shot the other teen in the stomach from 5 feet away. Miller and the 17-year-old ran and Trent fired at their backs. “Miller then clearly pulls a gun out of his waistband and fires three shots in the direction of Trent,” prosecutors allege. The two continue running and Trent allegedly shoots at them again. Police found Miller tending to his friend at the scene. A .38-caliber revolver was next to him. A .380 semiautomatic pistol was found in a trash can in an alley between South Fife Street and a big box store where Trent was seen fleeing. “The State cannot emphasize enough the extreme danger of these shootings or the stunning nature of the security footage,” deputy prosecutor Jesse Williams wrote in charging documents. “It is remarkable that no one other than (the 17-year-old) was hit by the gunfire, either civilians at the transit center or motorists on the busy thoroughfare that is South 47th Street.” Trent has two prior felony convictions and Miller has one, records show.
Ok,just watched the video and need to point out two things. The girl CLEARLY was trying to ride away on her bicycle when he first grabbed her,and she was CLEARLY resisting arrest when he started tossing her around,choking her,and tasing her. The most important thing to point out is that HE HAD NO AUTHORITY TO STOP HER TO START WITH. A shopping center parking lot is by definition public property,and he has no legal or moral authority to stop anyone from entering it at any time of the day or night. Which nullifies the first point about her resisting arrest. He had no right to stop or try to arrest her,so she can't be charged with resisting an illegal arrest. Officer Cartman was just having one of those "You WILL respect my authoritay!" moments. SOB should be fired and sued by both the city and the girls parents. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
I didn't see either one of the kids riding their bike in the possession of a weapon. Perhaps you need to look at the video. Your attempt to portray these two innocent kids as hardened criminals is beyond pathetic, but as we are all well aware, you suffer from a pathological fetish for authority. Once again - the 15 year old girl riding her bike who was brutally assaulted by police had nothing to do with any shootout. Your miserable attempt to defend the cops' actions here speaks volumes of your dishonesty and lack of character. Williams then arrested Monique and charged her with resisting arrest and, get this, assault on an officer. After viewing the surveillance video of the incident, however, all of the charges were thrown out. Yet you continue to defend the cops. Don’r ask me … I wasn’t there. Nope, I seriously don’t. Nope, I did not miss that part.
Last time I went to the city for a doctors appointment,there were maybe 6-8 black teens and a couple of black pre-teens standing in the divider between two 2 lane city streets,throwing rocks at passing cars. No reason for it,they were just laughing and having a good time. It must be stated they were standing directly across from the entrance to a welfare housing tract of condos,and when I first spotted them they had hit a Jeep Wagoneer with rocks,and the driver had came to a screeching halt in the road,and started to get out of the jeep,which caused them all to haul ass for mama's crib. When you don't teach your children responsibility,don't be surprised when they act like wild animals and get locked up. If society really wanted to stop this crap all they would have to do would be force mama out of the "free" government housing,cut off her check she is paid to take care of the children she is getting paid welfare to raise,and put her off sprung into child care where they could be taught manners. I can guarantee you that you won't have to cut off the "free" housing,paychecks,and food stamps to more than 2 or 3 professional baby mamas before the rest of them take a sudden and rabid interest in the conduct and activity of their bastard children. There is an old truism is that states "When you don't expect anything,don't be surprised with nothing is what you get." BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
"I feel like it's a ticking time bomb for this situation," said Pasana. Coming soon to a neighborhood near you all,unless you are millionaires. You can thank Bathhouse Barry and the rest of the Tan Klan for that. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Trying - maybe. She got about a foot away before the "hero" sprung into action, saving the day from these hardened criminals. HE HAD NO AUTHORITY TO STOP HER TO START WITH. A shopping center parking lot is by definition public property That is my understanding as well, and since the kids had apparently done this on a number of occasions, it seems like the cop saw a opportunity to flex his authority on a couple of innocent kids. What, you don't expect him to actually go after real criminals, do you? A couple of kids riding their bikes are "rowdy teens terrorizing neighborhood"? Look, I know you are one of the "cops are gods" contingent here at LF, but seriously? Ahhh,but these were "safe" ones to jump because it was in the middle of the afternoon,and one of them was a young girl. You don't really expect them to go after male hoodrats between 15 and 25 years old running in packs after dark,do you. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Antione Trent and Isaac Miller, both 16, were arraigned Thursday on first- degree assault charges. Why wasn't Trent charged with attempted murder? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
I have no idea ... do you think he should have been?
Coming soon to a neighborhood near you all,unless you are millionaires. You can thank Bathhouse Barry and the rest of the Tan Klan for that. We are in complete agreement !!!
Trying - maybe. She got about a foot away before the "hero" sprung into action, saving the day from these hardened criminals. And there you are in all your glory,admitting against your will that she WAS trying to get away. The "she was only a foot away......" excuse is lame beyond belief. How far away would she have to be before you would admit she was tying to avoid arrest,a half block? Not that the cop had any authority at all to stop her. He didn't. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Don't be an ass. You were attempting to link criminal activity by others to the two kids riding their bikes, insinuating that the two kids must be guilty simply for living in the same neighborhood. I have no idea ... do you think he should have been? Yes. He pulled a gun out of his pants and gut shot someone standing 5 feet away. How could that not be attempted murder? Now,if he were still being attacked or the other guy had already pulled his gun,that would be different. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
So what if she was? The cop had no business stopping her, that much has already been established. She was under no obligation to stay. Looking at the video again, it's not clear that she was trying to get away. She moved the bike forward yes, but that's it. By whose definition ... yours? A shopping center parking lot is public property only is it is government owned. If the shopping center parking lot is privately owned, then it is private property. You will need to show me why a security guard hired by the private property owners cannot stop someone in the privately owned parking lot ... do so, please.
Established by whom?
Non auro, sed ferro, recuperando est patria
What about this: Where is this proven incorrect?
There you go again, still trying to find a way to defend the cop's actions. The kids were riding their bikes through the parking lot as they had done numerous times before without incident. I'm sure the owners of the mall (Simon Property Group) would be disgusted with the actions of the cop. You - not so much What were they searching for in this case? Oh, you HAD to LOOK at the video TWICE ... after you told me to "look at the video again? You say it's not clear that she was trying to get away. There is no audio, so it is not clear to me that she did not say, "you can't stop me for anything, you fucking pig and I am leaving rat now and you can't do anything about it ..." I did notice it odd that there was a video from high above that actually followed the kids and the cop across the parking lot and the video stopped when they stopped. That could smack as a "set up" to me for a possible programmed confrontation with planned actions for the purpose of bleeding money from the city. Things like that have happened ... a number of times ... right? Not saying this is the case here ... just saying it has happened. Of course the city dropped the charges, what else do you expect the PC government assholes to do this day and time ... the assholes are frightened of anything and everything this day and time.
Didn't say they were searching for anything ... just showing you that security can stop you on private property. You are ready to admit the Tacoma Mall parking lot is private property ... right? Most malls will not permit skate boarding or bike riding in their parking lot for liability reasons and because it endangers customers. This may have been the case here ... bicycling was prohibited. A possibility ...
Don't be an ass. You were attempting to link criminal activity by others to the two kids riding their bikes, insinuating that the two kids must be guilty simply for living in the same neighborhood. Wrong, I was neither attempting nor insinuating anything. I only wanted to watch you go through your completely programmed and practiced routine, making suppositions to fit your agenda and cause. You did … and I laughed at your standard reactions again while you were doing it.. You are so predictable …
Attaboy! Attaboy! We don’t know why the security officer decided to stop them. It may have been an arbitrary decision by the security officer to do so, although I doubt that. I would lean more to him actively enforcing rules, regulations, policies and procedures as established by the mall management. I have considered conjectures posted on this thread. Now, I will offer one of my own. Suppose bicycle riding and skate boarding is prohibited in the Tacoma Mall parking lot in a written directive by management with posted signs (although posted signs are not legally required). Then suppose these kids had cut through the lot a number of times before (wait … that is no supposition … they admitted to doing that) and were told a number of times before to stop doing it. Suppose the security officer saw them doing the same thing again and stopped them. Then the kid challenged his authority, pulled away from him and started to leave. We don't know that happened and we don't know that it didn't happen. We don 't know what actually happened ... other than what is perceived from the video. All this does not excuse the officer from using excessive force, if that was determined to be the case by prominent authority. But, it may point out that the kids were not innocent victims … just in field training for the next “Black Lives Matter” get together. You fuckin’ bleeding heart liberals need to get with reality … and stop falling hook, line and sinker for the thought channeling these professional propagandist put you through in their biased articles with an agenda. Do I believe that is ever going to happen with you … HELL, NO!!!
This girl didn't pull out a gun, didn't attack an officer, but she was assaulted in a vicious manner. Four against the girl and the boy, who did nothing, won the day. Come on, folks, no one likes a bully.
Psalm 37
What did she do? You didn't watch the video, did you? If so, then where did you see "four" people? I missed that ... I don't know what really happened, but it looks like he was writing her a citation and she started to leave. He grabbed her arm to retain her and she struggled. Excessive speed is one of the restrictions posted against bicycle riders in most all mall parking lots. It is not possible to tell how fast the bicyclist were traveling, but it is readily apparent the security vehicle was traveling quite fast to catch up with them. When he did, the officer listened patiently to the girl and then he apparently pulled a citation book from his right side shirt pocket and started to write a ticket. The girl started to leave and the security officer grabbed her to detain her. She struggled with him and he pinned her against a vehicle to restrain her. I would never have dropped the charges of resisting arrest … she obviously did. That is the way I see it … you see it anyway you want to. Kansas’ Secretary of State Kris Kobach (R) told listeners of his radio show that President Obama could absolve black people of all crimes and refuse to prosecute them in the future. He also implied that Attorney General Eric Holder is a reverse racist for not applying civil rights laws to white people. During the weekly show, a caller named Stu postulated that Obama may announce in the future that a “black person accused of a crime, charged with a crime, is not going to be prosecuted, regardless of the crime,” based on his recent immigration action. He also argued that the government is already in the process of doing so, since Holder did not prosecute Black Panthers. Kobach didn’t dispute the claims, saying, “Well, it’s already happened more or less in the case of civil rights laws. I guess it’s not a huge jump. I think it’s unlikely, but you know I’ve learned to say with this president, never say never.” He also claimed that Holder “basically made it clear….that the civil rights laws were only to protect minority races, and he was not going to be enforcing them to the benefit of white people who were discriminated against on the basis of their race.” http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/03/05/3630291/kris-kobach-black- criminals/ Was this the case here … I don’t know. But with all the PC this day and time and the frighten candy assed civil servants … it could have been.
Good grief - is there no end to your absurdity? Just how fast do you think the two kids were traveling? 5 mph? 10 mph? This is just more of your usual deflection tactics in an attempt to to exonerate the cop. I don't know. I don't know what happened for the officer to stop the kids, and neither do you. These EDITED tapes NEVER show the BEFORE ... only the part they can draw perceived conclusions from. These cop-hating pseudo-journalists structure their presentation so carefully and lead gullible people, like yourself, down primrose path to believe what you already want to believe. If the civil authorities continue to not back their officers ... that will lead to a point where the officers will say, "fuck it" and turn their heads to all infractions. That will eventually lead to anarchy. But, wait ... anarchy is what you hope and pray for, I almost forgot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuuvmJ6L_Y 0:49 — Officer Williams appears to take out book to record information or write a citation 0:55 — Officer Williams begins writing 0:56 — Suspect Tillman starts to ride off and is stopped by Officer Williams 1:07 — Suspect Tillman held against vehicle; resists Officer Williams 1:14 — Officer Williams right hand is on upper chest of Suspect Tillman, not on neck or choking 1:25 — Suspect Tillman continues to resist and is wrestled away from vehicle 1:27 — Suspect Tillman wrestled to the ground and continues to resist 1:34 — Officer Williams starts to draw Taser 1:38 — Suspect Tillman, on ground, is tased; stops resisting. Suspect Tillman is handcuffed by unidentified Security Officer. See still photos: From the COMPLAINT: Clearly, it is not Officer Williams who handcuffed Tillman. It is one of three security officers on the scene. Their uniforms are distinctive and different. Officer Williams stood aside as this took place. This appears strange. Was Tillman found not guilty after trial? Did the trial proceed to its end? A clarification of what actually happened at trial would be helpful. What injuries? The Complaint does not specify any physical injuries. Again, physical injuries are cited but not specified. By Elisa Jaffe TACOMA, Wash. -- Monique Tillman said she's still shocked by the violent confrontation that unfolded with police last May in the Tacoma Mall parking lot. Now she and the Tacoma Police Department have very different versions of how their violent confrontation transpired. Tillman was 15-years old at the time and riding bikes on a Saturday with her 16-year-old brother. They'd left McDonald's and decided to take a short cut home through the mall's lot. Mall security ordered the teens to pull over, but officers say the kids didn't stop. Security video shows Tillman, now 16, talking with an off-duty Tacoma Police officer hired by the mall for crime prevention. Their encounter rapidly escalates. "He was just pulling my hair and like he was trying to slam my face into the ground," she said. The officer looks to take out a note pad to write down information. Tillman said she didn't have identification and thought she was being racially profiled and told the officer that. Before the officer could write anything down, Tillman admits she tried to ride away. That's when he grabbed her. "I did have a bit of an attitude, but that's because it was a waste of my time. I hadn't done anything wrong," she said. The police report described the kids cutting off cars earlier, swearing and yelling at anyone who honked at them, and that the mall wanted them stopped and given a trespassing notice. "I felt like they just see me as some black kid wanting to cause problems or something. And it was nothing like that," said the 11th grader. The report claims Tillman, who says she's a straight A student at Bates Technical High School, became belligerent, swearing, screaming, and resisting until she was Tased by the Tacoma officer. "It felt like electricity running through my veins instead of blood," she said. That's when she stopped resisting and started cooperating. An attorney for the family plans to sue the Tacoma Police Department and the off-duty officer. "This officer was obviously confused about what his powers were and he chose to exceed what he was allowed to do and hurt my client," said attorney Tom Balerud. Balerud said the officer was performing a corporate function for the mall, not a police function, and abused his power. Tacoma Police Department Public Information Officer Loretta Cool disagrees. Of the officer, Cool said, "His presence at the Tacoma Mall, even though off duty and paid by mall, he's a police officer and he's acting as a police officer." He had his car, his uniform, and his Taser. Cool said the second he was called on to order the teens off the private property and turned his lights on, the officer was working on the city's payroll, not the mall's. A department investigation into the use of force determined the officer could have used more force than he did on the teen when she fought back. Cool said it looked like he was going easy on the girl because of her age and size. Balerud said the thought that more force would have been acceptable under department policy is reprehensible.
Ah Ha! I knew that the didn't stop them just to write an invitation to his birthday party. I figured they must have committed some offense. So, Deckard, Mister Always Right Cop-Hater ... will you ever wait until you have all the information available before you pass judgment on cops and find them guilty of everything. The answer to that, of course ... is No, Never.
Excellent job ... as always. Thank you ...
He's batting .000 for the year.
He's batting .000 for the year. He is pathetic.
This was a SURVEILLANCE tape made by the mall security camera. Now you are claiming the video has been edited? Oh - he "claimed" that, did he? Then why were the kids not charged with that offense? Ping to Post #25,
Of course, I watched the video. I wouldn't have commented otherwise. Watch the video toward the end for the other two mall cops.
Psalm 37
Oh - he "claimed" that, did he? Then why were the kids not charged with that offense? Because his good hearted nature caused him to be benevolent and his kindly feelings were motivated by sympathetic understanding to let her off with a verbal warning: Telling her she was causing a disturbance and going to be “trespassed,” or banned, from the mall. He also warned her that she could be arrested if she were to return. Besides, she was charged in juvenile court with resisting arrest and assaulting an officer .... to “pile on charges” against the lovely poor innocent girl who was so demure and polite while conforming to social norms would be cruel and inhumane.
They were arrested on other charges. You want more?
Oh - he "claimed" that, did he? Then why were the kids not charged with that offense? I reckon that's because traffic infractions are not criminal offenses and are not charged in criminal court.
You and people like you are the reason I arrested everyone that caused me to put my hands on them. astonishingly, many officers with bleeding libtarded hearts still lay hands on and then, feel bad and don't arrest. Then the liability suits come in for excessive force... and the scumbags attorney claims his client was an angel because he/she wasn't arrested. It doesn't pay to have a heart and soul... because of scumbags like you. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Kids are becoming empowered and every day is like living in a war zone for them. Even small requests will set off fire works with these kids because they are unable to understand the word “no.” They are determined to gain power through constant arguing. Their bullying and physical violence, coupled with their refusal to follow rules and assume responsibility for their actions, along with their cursing and threatening behavior needs to be addressed. Dealing with oppositional defiant juveniles can be frustrating and exhausting. Excusing their uncivil actions by wrongfully misplacing blame on an officer performing his duty is an abomination.
By whose definition ... yours? By any sane definition known to man. Or do the words "open to the public" confuse you? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Yeah,and it is also true. The Future Felons of America and dey mama's might not like it,but it's still true. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Where is this proven incorrect? I know you have a limited attention span,so I will just point out that the kids riding through the parking lot were NOT employees of the corporation that owns the mall,and that bozo was wearing his city police uniform,not a security guard uniform. Which means he was representing the city to the public,not representing the mall corporation. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
No,but we can only hope she was saying that or something similar. People who don't speak up for their rights lose them. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
You mean to tell me these two 15 and 16 year old kids had nothing better to do that spend a good part of the afternoon riding bicycles around a mall parking lot to deliberately cut off cars and cause people to beep their horns and scream at them,and they were doing this long enough for calls to 9-11 to be made and police to be dispatched to arrest those desperadoes? Just how freaking likely is that? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Sure I do. Public property - Private property - Public Use - Dedication -
Agreed. Not agreed. Once a cop starts that kind of treatment, even if it's warranted which in this case sure appears it was not, the person being so attacked is not legally liable for any kind of resistant or defensive action. Or shouldn't be. That is a completely natural and instinctive survival response. Only if they do something criminal BEFORE being treated like that should they be charged with resisting and/or assault. That's common sense, if common sense should ever apply in these cases. I think technically it is not public property, but rather, a place of public accommodation. But the difference is moot in this case. I suspect "Mall security" has less authority to stop and apprehend than does a law enforcement officer. Insofar as this cop was not a "law enforcement officer" when working privately at the mall, he was not acting in the capacity of law enforcement. How much more limiting the authority granted is, we don't know. But that the police dept is not being sued in the case is evidence enough that the cop was not acting in the capacity of law enforcement. That's the way it should be. But the resisting charge was apparently tossed out, so the PTB's either agree with you or didn't see her resisting. From the video he appears to love power trips and throwing his (and the girl's) weight around. That's probably why he decided to become a cop.
Read much before posting? Officer Williams was at work, at the mall, paid by the mall. The juvenile delinquents were doing it long enough for Officer Williams and mall security to respond. At #35: [...] "This officer was obviously confused about what his powers were and he chose to exceed what he was allowed to do and hurt my client," said attorney Tom Balerud. Balerud [attorney for Tillman] said the officer was performing a corporate function for the mall, not a police function, and abused his power. Tacoma Police Department Public Information Officer Loretta Cool disagrees. Of the officer, Cool said, "His presence at the Tacoma Mall, even though off duty and paid by mall, he's a police officer and he's acting as a police officer." He had his car, his uniform, and his Taser. Cool said the second he was called on to order the teens off the private property and turned his lights on, the officer was working on the city's payroll, not the mall's. A department investigation into the use of force determined the officer could have used more force than he did on the teen when she fought back. Cool said it looked like he was going easy on the girl because of her age and size.
This shopping center parking lot belonged to the mall owner and was private property.
No one is telling you that. The kids were passing through the parking lot on their way home when “the kids were cutting off cars, swearing and yelling at anyone who honked at them.” Where did you read that anyone called 911? Where did you read that the police were dispatched to arrest the kids? None of this happened. “The mall wanted them stopped and given a trespassing notice.” Not freaking likely at all … because it never happened the way you described it. If You're Gonna Play in Texas You Gotta Have a Fiddle in the Band. Paraphrasing: If you’re gonna jump in on a discussion, you gotta have your facts straight.
At #35: He had his car, his uniform, and his Taser. Cool said the second he was called on to order the teens off the private property and turned his lights on, the officer was working on the city's payroll, not the mall's.
I did not see this post before I responded to sneakypete.
You are consistent in what you want the law to be, but you are consistently wrong. She is required to comply with the commands of the officer. He may escalate his force to whatever it takes to force her compliance. Resisting the officer in his duties is not self-defence.
[...] People who don't speak up for their rights lose them. Judging from her gestures, she was certainly exercising her First Amendment right.
It's all good.
I'm not wrong in what I want the law to be. I think I can speak authoritatively on that. But not beyond that needed, which from the video certainly seems to be the case here, and apparently the cause of the civil case now filed against the officer, the mall, et al. If the officer grabs a girl's hair and starts throwing her around that way, then the girl can hardly be held responsible for whatever action she takes in her own self-defense from that point forward, such as grabbing the guards hands. Expecting her to suffer through pain and possibly serious injury by not taking any instinctive self-protective measures is surely ludicrous. And I don't think that's a subjective statement.
The kids were not there for any purpose but to use it as a short cut. Mall security wanted the kids to be given a traspassing notice. At #35: [...] The police report described the kids cutting off cars earlier, swearing and yelling at anyone who honked at them, and that the mall wanted them stopped and given a trespassing notice.
But the police are not being sued. So apparently, he was wearing the police uniform inappropriately because he was not acting in the capacity of a city police officer, but only in the capacity of a mall security guard.
If so, the offense was not trespassing, but disturbing the peace. It's also not trespassing in a place of public accommodation until after someone is told they may not come. I suppose that may have been the point of the notice. Not a citation or claim any offense was committed, but just a "notice". But still, given the girl was arrested, why wasn't disturbing the peace or some similar charge levelled related to the real reason for the stop, instead of resisting and assault?
No, it does not appear so. The officer did not strike her and did not choke her. The filed Complaint specifies no physical injury whatever, but where the taser struck must have left a mark. She unlawfully tried to flee and resisted. He overcame her resistence with the taser. She could have complied at any time. She can be held responsible for whatever she does to resist. It is unlawful resistance, not self-defence. The only reason any force was being used was her resistance. After the taser, the officer stood aside and mall security handcuffed her.
Inappropriately? Maybe yes … maybe no. There are a number of cities that have a formal program that allow their police officers to be serve as private security while they are in uniform. LA and NYC are but two of those cities. I don’t know the Tacoma police policy on this.
Blah,blah,blah. You are more full of shit than a Thanksgiving turkey. There is no lie you won't tell and no truth you won't stretch to the limits in order to provide excuses for cowardly thugs with badges. HOW were the mall owners going to call tow trucks to tow off the kids bicycles that were just traveling THROUGH the parking lot? More importantly,the trouble started with the mall employee,a thug with a badge,stopped the kids TO KEEP THEM FROM LEAVING. Are you now claiming mall owners have a right to imprison people passing through? A mall parking lot IS public property,and the only time the public is forbidden access to that property is when those INDIVIDUALS have broken some of the rules and management has told them to leave. The kids were ALREADY leaving,you idiot. It was the mall employees that kept them there. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this. The officer clearly threw her to the ground with his left hand firmly holding her hair. The taser followed. In sum, it easily appeared to me as excessive force, and apart from what did appear to be an attempt by the girl to leave the scene, there is no obvious move of resistance to me through the rest of the ordeal. That all charges were dropped reinforces that observation. They may call it that in a court of law, but that doesn't mean in real life, people have not been killed by police because they could not breath under the weight of several cops standing on top of them, chocking them, and/or beating them. It has happened as you know. Ergo, those people who died certainly had a natural right to self-defense against the excessive acts of the police. Obviously we can see that most clearly in hindsight, but if it's there in hindsight, it still means it was there and is there. Obviously the courts will be slow to find innocent as a matter of self defense anyone harming a police officer while knowing it was a police officer. But if a cop can kill out of reasonable fear for his own life, then that right has to apply to citizens as well. And the more cops are trained to shoot at the slightest provocation, the more reason informed citizens have to be fearful of cops who point guns at them. Will such a case ever happen? I don't know.
Not agreed. Once a cop starts that kind of treatment, even if it's warranted which in this case sure appears it was not, the person being so attacked is not legally liable for any kind of resistant or defensive action. Or shouldn't be. That is a completely natural and instinctive survival response. Only if they do something criminal BEFORE being treated like that should they be charged with resisting and/or assault. That's common sense, if common sense should ever apply in these cases. You misunderstood me. The girl was peacefully (not using force) to resist arrest by peddling away,and was then assaulted by the thug with the badge. She THEN started resisting,and who wouldn't? Other than some of jackboot lickers here,that is. Which nullifies the first point about her resisting arrest. He had no right to stop or try to arrest her,so she can't be charged with resisting an illegal arrest. I didn't say she was ILLEGALLY resisting arrest,I just said she was resisting once he grabbed her. Up to the point where he grabbed her,she was just leaving. Too many cops are their own worse enemies because they create enemies where none existed before by being power-mad abusive assholes. One of life's greatest wonders to me is why more people aren't sniping at policemen from rooftops. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Okay, but in any event, since the city is not named as a defendant in the case, it's apparent that the cop was not acting in the capacity of a cop when working for the mall.
Officer Williams was at work, at the mall, paid by the mall. The juvenile delinquents were doing it long enough for Officer Williams and mall security to respond. Think much before posting? I don't give a rabid rat's ass if he had been adopted by the corporation that owns the mall,the way the process works is that citizens call 9-11 to report a problem,9-11 notifies the cops on duty,and the cops on duty then respond to the 9-11 call. For reasons I don't pretend to understand,the city let Officer Bozo work as a security guard at a private mall while wearing his PD uniform and badge,and they even let him drive a PD car while doing it. In other words,he picked up on the 9-11 operator paging patrol cars over his patrol car radio. This doesn't happen instantly. It takes time,and by the time the phone calls are made and the 9-11 operators put out the notification,whoever was doing what was claimed,IF anyone was actually doing that,was long gone. I would love to see the lawyers representing the teens demand the 9-11 recordings with date and time stamps. Frankly,I don't begin to understand why the Tacoma PD is backing that fool,and leaving themselves and the city open to lawsuits. I think ever similar situation I have ever heard of,the city and the PD couldn't back away from their off-duty cop any faster. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
HorseHillary. Show me ONE example of any mall having people arrested for tresspassing for doing nothing more than driving through the parking lot,and the arrest sticking BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Ain't that the truth! Kinda reminds me of US foreign policy, specifically with the drone wars. Cops would be well served to treat the public as their friends instead of potential enemies & killers. A poll would be interesting to see of what the average person's emotional response is when seeing a cop. I think most driver's experience a small amount of panic in wondering if they happen to be speeding that that moment. At that point it's an open civil rebellion/war. Usually it takes a lot more than police abuse to bring that about.
I know the cop was psychotic,but that doesn't mean he was psychic. Just exactly how did he know all this was happening in no one called 9-11? EVERYBODY knows the 9-11 phone number,but how many people know the phone number for mall management? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Of the officer, [Tacoma Police Department Public Information Officer Loretta] Cool said, "His presence at the Tacoma Mall, even though off duty and paid by mall, he's a police officer and he's acting as a police officer." He had his car, his uniform, and his Taser. Cool said the second he was called on to order the teens off the private property and turned his lights on, the officer was working on the city's payroll, not the mall's. Good to know you think police departments work for mall owners. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
You really are the perfect little Nazi,aren't you? All that education,and not a speck of common sense or humanity. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
So what? WTF are mall security and what gives them the right to stop and detain people who aren't committing any crimes? They had no right to stop the kids to start with. The MOST they have the authority to do is to ask people causing a disturbance to leave or they will call the police,and they kids were leaving when the thugs in blue stopped them. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
I actually had a friend who worked as a Santa Claus at a mall. I never found out the details, but some kind of altercation occurred where the mall ended up firing him or discontinuing whatever contract they had, and in addition the mall specifically disinvited him from returning even to shop. I think it would be considered trespassing if he were to return. I was told that if he wanted to return after a year, he could write to them and ask permission and they'd consider lifting the restriction. Was it legal? I don't know. It may not have been legally enforceable, but so often, the illusion of legal authority is imposed where it doesn't exist. I never found out what happened as he didn't want to talk about it. I could infer from that he knew he was in the wrong somehow, but will never know. He died 6-7 years ago.
Oddly enough,the Tacoma PD is backing him up and claiming he was on duty the instant he hit the siren to pull them over. Makes no sense at all,but that is what they are doing. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
He didn't have his hand around her throat? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Well that's certainly interesting. He was using a city police car & gas to moonlight a private job? And then as soon as he flips a switch in the car, he's automatically making overtime from the city? I can understand the sentiment that cops remain cops when they are off duty, and are not obligated to do nothing when they see a situation that needs addressing when the clock is not running. But if the city says he was on the city's payroll at the seen, why are they not named as defendants in this case, as they provided the taser & car used at the scene?
Different situation. For one thing,this started because they wanted him to leave. The girl and her brother were trying to leave,and the cop prevented them from leaving. On top of that they had done nothing but ride their bikes through the parking lot. No altercation involved until the cop/mall security got involved. Night and day. Anybody that has enough sense to come in out of the rain would have just told the kids to keep on going and to not come back. If they had came back AFTER being warned to not return,then the mall would have a trespassing case. You can NOT arrest someone for trespassing when you are the one that kept them from leaving. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Yup! I'm betting the taxpayers in Tacoma are slightly less than thrilled about that. The end result will be that the city of Tacoma (the taxpayers) will end up having to pay any settlement,not the mall. I'm starting to wonder how many of the city council members or even the mayor/the mayor's family are on the mall board or major stockholders. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Looking at it again, part of the action happens off camera, but when it's recentered, it does appear the cop has his hand on her throat, then moves his hand to the chest just below the throat in what looks like a restraining measure. As the cop is circling with this girl, her right hand is held by the cop and her left hand is touching her own face. That's before she's thrown to the ground by her hair and tased. People who are combative don't touch their own face in the middle of a fight. I don't see how anyone could view that as assault or resisting. At least at that point in the altercation.
Actually looking at it again, she does make a move on the bike, but she may not have been trying to leave. She may have been getting off the bike, or maybe just wanted to move the bike away a couple feet from between the 2 cops before dismounting. Or maybe she really was trying to leave. If so, she was certainly not getting any jump start. On that score, the cop may have been giving them that very warning not to return. If so, and he had authority to give that warning, then he certainly would have authority to stop them and give it. So I wouldn't fault him for taking things that far. From what I see on the video, the cop was wrong in using very excessive force against a not-overweight 15 year old girl, and that regardless of whether she attempted to leave or not.
A mall parking lot is private property. To say otherwise is to lie or be stupid.
Yes it is. But as a mall is a commercial establishment open to the public, it is a place of public accommodation. So even though it is private, people are welcome to come on to the property and enter the buildings without need of special authorization from the owner, as is needed in the case of a private home.
Yep.
This appears to be just wrong and without any legal merit. At #35: He had his car, his uniform, and his Taser. Cool said the second he was called on to order the teens off the private property and turned his lights on, the officer was working on the city's payroll, not the mall's. In charging the officer, the charging party must overcome a claim that Officer Williams was a state actor acting under color of state law, and that he is covered by qualified immunity from civil liability. In Swiecicki v Delgado, 6th Cir 05-4036 (15 Sep 2006), the court addressed the subject of when an off-duty police officer, in uniform acting as a security officer, is a state actor acting under color of state law. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/6th/054036p.pdf At 1: At 2: At 6-7: The district court also held that Delgado was not acting under color of state law until he actually placed Swiecicki under arrest. Swiecicki, on the other hand, argues that Delgado was acting under color of state law during the entire incident, and that the district court erroneously relied on disputed material facts in making its decision. “To state a claim under § 1983, the plaintiff . . . must show that the alleged violation was committed by a person acting under color of state law.” Redding v. St. Eward, 241 F.3d 530, 532 (6th Cir. 2001). Delgado, to be liable under § 1983, must have exercised power made possible “only because [he was] clothed with the authority of state law.” Id. at 533 (citations and quotation marks omitted). Whether a police officer like Delgado was acting under the color of state law poses a difficult question that depends on “the nature of the act performed, not the clothing of the actor or even the status of being on duty . . . .” Id. (citation and quotation marks omitted). Relevant considerations include whether the officer flashed a badge, identified himself as an officer, or arrested (or threatened to arrest) someone. Parks v. City of Columbus, 395 F.3d 643, 652 (6th Cir. 2005) (holding that an off-duty police officer acted under color of state law when he threatened a citizen with arrest at a local festival). The parties agree that Delgado was off-duty at the time of the incident, even though he was wearing his police uniform and carrying his official weapons. As indicated by Redding, however, the nature of the act, rather than Delgado’s clothing, informs the state-actor analysis. Redding, 241 F.3d at 533. We must therefore consider Delgado’s behavior during the course of the incident, making sure to view the facts in the light most favorable to Swiecicki at this stage of the case. See Matsushita, 475 U.S. at 587. Swiecicki alleges that Delgado used police procedures and was therefore a state actor during the entire incident. According to Swiecicki and several witnesses, Delgado grabbed Swiecicki by the shirt and arm to escort him, and Delgado himself admits that he put Swiecicki in the “escort position” before forcibly removing him from the bleachers. The district court failed to acknowledge Swiecicki’s version of the facts, holding that “[a]lthough Officer Delgado may have been acting as a private actor when he began escorting Jeffrey Swiecicki out of the stadium pursuant to the rules and regulations of Jacobs Field, he asserted his official state power when he placed Jeffrey Swiecicki under arrest.” Despite this broad pronouncement, the district court never articulated why it concluded that Delgado was not a state actor when he first escorted Swiecicki out of the stands. Here, we believe the record establishes that Delgado was a state actor from the beginning of the incident in question because he “presented himself as a police officer.” Parks, 395 F.3d at 652. Our conclusion is based not only on Delgado’s attire, badge, and weapons, but also on the fact that Delgado told Swiecicki that “[w]e can either do this the easy way or the hard way.” We recognize that these words, standing alone, would not necessarily rise to the level of a threatened arrest. After all, if a private citizen like Labrie, or a fellow Indians fan, had warned Swiecicki in a similar manner, no threat of arrest would have been present. And if Delgado had simply asked Swiecicki to calm down or risk being ejected from the game, we would be unable to conclude that Delgado acted under color of state law. See Watkins v. Oaklawn Jockey Club, 183 F.2d 440, 443 (8th Cir. 1950) (holding that an off-duty deputy sheriff who worked as a security guard at a race track was not acting under color of state law when he ejected a patron because the deputy sheriff acted in the same manner that a civilian employee of the track would have acted). But we are required to consider all of the relevant circumstances. See Parks, 395 F.3d at 652 (“[A]ll of these factors combined create the presumption of state action.”). Rather than calmly asking Swiecicki to leave the stadium, Delgado, while wearing his uniform and carrying his official weapons, threatened Swiecicki and forcibly removed him from the bleachers. This evidence, combined with the fact that Delgado was hired by Jacobs Field to intervene “in cases requiring police action” suggests that his warning to Swiecicki amounted to a threat of arrest. Delgado apparently believed, moreover, that the incident was one requiring “police action” because he approached Swiecicki before Labrie had a chance to further investigate. In sum, this was more than a case in which a civilian employed by the Indians peaceably ejected an unruly fan from a baseball game—a procedure clearly contemplated by the rules and regulations of Jacobs Field. Delgado, in full police uniform, forcibly removed Swiecicki in the escort position. All of this evidence, when considered together, indicates that Delgado was acting under color of state law at the time he removed Swiecicki from the bleachers. See id. at 652 (holding that the off-duty police officer was a state actor because he was in uniform, identified himself as an officer, and threatened arrest); see also Villegas v. City of Gilroy, 363 F. Supp.2d 1207, 1213 (N.D. Cal. 2005) (holding that an off-duty police officer who ejected citizens from a festival held at a public park acted under color of state law because her presence was intended to give “some air of authority as a police officer” and because she had “an active hand assisting in enforcing [the] dress code policy by intimidating Plaintiffs into leaving the festival.”) (quotation marks omitted). But see Herrera v. Chisox Corp., No. 93 C 4279, 1995 WL 599065, at *5-6 (N.D. Ill. Oct. 6, 1995) (unpublished) (holding that off-duty deputy sheriffs did not act under color of state law when they allegedly arrested Herrera at a Chicago Whitesox game because the deputy sheriffs were not wearing their uniforms, did not carry official weapons, filed a Whitesox incident report rather than an arrest report, and did not accompany officers of the Chicago Police Department who took Herrera to the police station). Delgado’s status as a state actor continued as he escorted Swiecicki through the tunnel. After removing Swiecicki from the bleachers, Delgado formally placed Swiecicki under arrest, wrestled him to the ground using the arm-bar technique, and attempted to handcuff him. Such actions were clearly carried out “with the authority of state law.” Redding, 241 F.3d at 533. We therefore hold that Delgado was a state actor for the duration of the incident. See Layne v. Sampley, 627 F.2d 12, 13 (6th Cir. 1980) (holding that the question of whether someone acted under the color of state law may be determined as a matter of law unless there remain unanswered questions of fact for the jury to decide).
It's also not trespassing in a place of public accommodation until after someone is told they may not come. I suppose that may have been the point of the notice. Not a citation or claim any offense was committed, but just a "notice". But still, given the girl was arrested, why wasn't disturbing the peace or some similar charge levelled related to the real reason for the stop, instead of resisting and assault? The lot is private property and not a public thoroughway for the public to use as a shortcut to bypass the public roads. The assertion is that Mall security wanted them removed for trespassing. They were to be given a notice to advise them that they were banned from mall property. Rather than give her information, the young lady decided to give a ration of shit and pedal away. She was stopped and arrested. The apparent reason for the arrest was resisting the lawful actions of the officer and assault on the officer. She was not arrested until after she tried to pedal away. How do you know what reason was given in criminal proceedings for the initial stop? It is in proceedings against a minor. How can you confirm any information from what happened in the criminal proceedings. I have been unable to find any citation to the case, the court, the judge, or the date of any proceeding in the case. It is difficult to find any official information on the criminal case as Tillman was a minor. The lawfirm representing Tillman released a public statement asserting "Officer Williams forcibly shoved Monique into parked cars, placing his forearm across her chest as he extracted his Taser. Heaping brutality upon indignity, Officer Williams grabbed Monique by the hair and flung her to ground. Not satisfied, Officer Williams deployed his Taser and stunned Monique before handcuffing her and charging her with resisting arrest and assault on a police officer, charges which were ultimately dismissed." This provides no legal reasoning on why the charges were ultimately dismissed. I have yet to see any source provide a case citation or a date for the dismissal of charges, or identify what judge or court did this. The counsel for Tillman does not enhance his credibility by saying Officer Williams, "forcibly shoved Monique into parked cars, placing his forearm across her chest as he extracted his Taser." The video clearly shows this occurred later, when Tillman was on the ground.
Simple question then. If it's wrong, then why isn't the city being sued by the family of the 15 year old? Why instead are they suing the cop, the mall, and the security company that is paying the cop? Are the plaintiff's making a mistake? Or are they purposely avoiding bringing the city into the suit? Is the city broke?
Off-duty cops work security pretty much all over the country. They obviously do it in Tacoma and elsewhere in the state of Washington. https://w-ins.com/security-guards-20.htm W-Insurance - 253-382-2100 - Your Tacoma, Bellevue, Seattle, WA. Security Guard Insurance Professionals Secure bigger profits with the savings on our Security and Patrol Insurance Program. Guard and patrol services (including off-duty police officers) providing armed or unarmed security personnel with or without animals. Firearms training and certification schools also eligible. No matter the size of your security guard company it is time to begin protecting your employees, your resources, and physical assets with general liability and commercial auto insurance. http://www.seattlesecurity.com/ Seattle Security Inc. specializes in providing Washington State Certified off-duty Seattle Police Officers for security and traffic control to private citizens and businesses in the Greater Seattle area. We operate as a hiring hall for the purpose of referring its officers to potential off-duty employers. Seattle Police Officers provided to you by SSI are exceptional in their field. These men and women prove themselves on a daily basis. Seattle Police Officers also pride themselves in their professionalism and sense of duty. Knowing that you hired police officers from SSI will give you the confidence that no matter how difficult the task it will be accomplished. In addition, you can feel confident and have the peace of mind knowing that a professional police officer is working for you. Although our officers are working off-duty for you, we can assure you that if any police action is needed we are there. This allows for immediate action verses (sic) having a security guard call 911. Remember there is a great difference between hiring security guards and hiring state certified police officers. Thank you for your time, and we hope we can serve you. And, of course, there is the statement of the Public Affairs Officer of the Tacoma Police Department: He had his car, his uniform, and his Taser. Cool said the second he was called on to order the teens off the private property and turned his lights on, the officer was working on the city's payroll, not the mall's.
Without audio, how do you know this to be the case? On further review, she may not have been trying to leave the scene, but only dismount from the bike, perhaps first manuvering out from between the 2 cops. If she was trying to leave, she certainly didn't try to get a jump start on them. My info is based on what's stated in the article here. I have not attempted to confirm anything. Like everyone else, I'm basing my judgement on the video and information on the article, bias though it is. If the information is different, I may modify my opinion accordingly.
More importantly,the trouble started with the mall employee,a thug with a badge,stopped the kids TO KEEP THEM FROM LEAVING. They were not seeking to take the kids bikes and arrest the kids. They were seeking to serve a legal notice to stay off the private property of the mall owner. A privately owned mall parking lot is private property. Officer Williams was on the public payroll, acting as a state actor and a police officer, from the second he was called on to order the yoots off the private property.
It appears to be an officer using such force as necessary to restrain the yoot without injuring the yoot. The yoot was neither punched nor kicked, nor choked. Perhaps you can suggest how the officer should have restrained the yoot. If you are seriously a criminal asshole, and a cop points a gun at your head and orders you to get on the ground, hands behind your back, if you fear for your life that does not mean you can shoot and kill the cop and call it self-defence. Cops are not trained to shoot at the slightest provocation. If they were, the streets would be littered with countless bodies every day. The police are trained for restraint. The military on security duty are far more likely to open fire with deadly effect. My military training was to the effect that the only reason to pull a gun was to shoot it.
That is fleeing, not resisting. She had not yet been arrested.
No, it is very obvious that the cop was acting in the capacity of a cop, a state actor. Counsel is pretending that he was acting as a mall employee only. When acting in the capacity of a state actor, a police officer, the cop has qualified immunity from civil litigation.
Blah,blah,blah. You are more full of shit than a Thanksgiving turkey. The shopping mall parking lot is NOT public property, if it is privately owned.
I don't give a rabid rat's ass if he had been adopted by the corporation that owns the mall,the way the process works is that citizens call 9-11 to report a problem,9-11 notifies the cops on duty,and the cops on duty then respond to the 9-11 call. You are a rabid rat's ass. The cop was working for the mall. The second he was called upon to perform police work, he shifted to the public payroll and was a state actor acting as a police officer. That is the way the system works when the private mall hires an off duty cop to be there and available to provide police services for them. The Complaint does not appear to raise any constitutional challenge or to assert any challenge to the arrest regarding probable cause. The Complaint alleges Negligence; Assault; and Outrage against Officer Williams.
The mall owners, the owners of the private property mall parking lot, were never going to call tow trucks to tow off the kids bicycles.
HorseHillary. This shopping center parking lot belonged to the mall owner and was private property. Privately owned property is private property. It is not public property, however much you blabber your delusion. Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Ed.
I know the cop was psychotic,but that doesn't mean he was psychic. Just exactly how did he know all this was happening in no one called 9-11? EVERYBODY knows the 9-11 phone number,but how many people know the phone number for mall management?
Mall security requested the action. They did not have to call themselves. By Elisa Jaffe [...] Of the officer, Cool said, "His presence at the Tacoma Mall, even though off duty and paid by mall, he's a police officer and he's acting as a police officer." He had his car, his uniform, and his Taser. Cool said the second he was called on to order the teens off the private property and turned his lights on, the officer was working on the city's payroll, not the mall's. [...]
Good to know you are an asshole.
You really are a perfect asshole, aren't you.
So what? WTF are mall security and what gives them the right to stop and detain people who aren't committing any crimes? They had no right to stop the kids to start with. The Complaint does not appear to raise any constitutional challenge or to assert any challenge to the arrest regarding probable cause. The Complaint alleges Negligence; Assault; and Outrage against Officer Williams. Evidently, not even the Complainant's lawyer thinks he can sell that steaming pantsload.
No, he did not.
He may escalate his force to whatever it takes to force her compliance. Resisting the officer in his duties is not self-defence. You really are the perfect little Nazi,aren't you?
The employer has to pay the police for the car and gas. In Swiecicki v Delgado, 6th Cir 05-4036 (15 Sep 2006), the court addressed the subject of when an off-duty police officer, in uniform acting as a security officer, is a state actor acting under color of state law. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/6th/054036p.pdf [excerpt]
By Elisa Jaffe [excerpt] Before the officer could write anything down, Tillman admits she tried to ride away. That's when he grabbed her.
Still photo was from 1:18 of the video clip. Check out video at about 1:06. You'll see he's got his other arm (right) which does appear to be at the girl's throat. Because the camera was panning them back into view, it's only visible for a second before the cop lowers his hand to her upper chest. We cannot tell how long his hand was at or near her throat. Just because he was not choking the girl at 1:18 does not prove he was not choking her at 1:06. You are obviously bias in favor of the cops, which is fine, but certainly you know better than to say the still photo proves a negative.
If she admits it, then fine.
But people may be ordered to leave and not come back. The people are welcome to enter to use the private property for the purpose for which it was intended, with good behavior.
But not unilaterally. Disinviting orientals from mall property would generate a discrimination lawsuit in a heartbeat, which is not the case for a homeowner having a private party. So even though mall property is private, the owners of the property are limited in who and for what reasons people could be barred from entering. Agreed.
Because if they admit that the officer was acting in an official capacity, he has qualified immunity from civil suit. They don't think they can win suing the city. Look at the Complaint. The Complaint does not appear to raise any constitutional challenge or to assert any challenge to the arrest regarding probable cause. The city already acted to clear Officer Williams and stated he could have lawfully used more force. The Complaint alleges Negligence; Assault; and Outrage against Officer Williams.
Without audio, how do you know this to be the case? The video and her statement to KOMO News in 2015. By Elisa Jaffe [excerpt] Before the officer could write anything down, Tillman admits she tried to ride away. That's when he grabbed her.
I was referring not to her riding away, but to your assessment that she gave the cop a "ration of shit" first. Is there any audio recording of the discussion that took place before she tried to leave?
Yes, unilaterally. The owner, or his agents, did not need permission from anyone to disinvite the yoots. They cannot banish for a purpose such as discrimination.
At 1:06 it is too fuzzy for me to clearly see. At 1:07 it appears his hand is on her throat. At 1:08 it appears his hand has been lowered to approximately where it is seen at 1:18.
Is there any audio recording of the discussion that took place before she tried to leave? There is no audio. There is video. And there is the police report. And the 2015 KOMO newspaper article. By Elisa Jaffe [excerpt] The officer looks to take out a note pad to write down information. Tillman said she didn't have identification and thought she was being racially profiled and told the officer that. Before the officer could write anything down, Tillman admits she tried to ride away. That's when he grabbed her. "I did have a bit of an attitude, but that's because it was a waste of my time. I hadn't done anything wrong," she said. The police report described the kids cutting off cars earlier, swearing and yelling at anyone who honked at them, and that the mall wanted them stopped and given a trespassing notice. "I felt like they just see me as some black kid wanting to cause problems or something. And it was nothing like that," said the 11th grader. The report claims Tillman, who says she's a straight A student at Bates Technical High School, became belligerent, swearing, screaming, and resisting until she was Tased by the Tacoma officer. Or, as Matt Agorist puts it in the main thread article, I suppose one may look at the video and see a yoot calmly explaining that she had done nothing wrong, and that they do it all the time. The video I see shows the yoot, who by her own admission, had a bit of an attitude, and decided to just pedal away.
If you can’t do this, then you need to stop with the unfounded accusations. There would be no need for your ad hominem attack on my character if you would familiarize yourself more with the case at hand and attack the substance itself … not me.
Are you sure of that. Looks to me like they were prepared to call in air strikes. After all,it was private property and they were being invaded,right? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
I know you specialize in being an anal even for someone that loves to pick nits,but show me ONE example of a open mall with "No trespassing" signs designed to keep the public out without written or oral permission. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
How did mall management know. Are they psycic? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
BullBush! Are you seriously claiming mall management,who are sitting in their offices inside the mall building,were aware of and notified that asshole cop of two kids riding bicycles across the parking lot in time for them to radio the asshole cop and for said asshole cop to stop the kids before they could cross the parking lot while riding bicycles? Do you also believe in the tooth fairy? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Good to know you are an asshole. That would be you,bubba. No one but an asshole defends cops that taze teenage girls. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
You really are a perfect asshole, aren't you. Truth hurts,huh? BTW,your idols,the Nazi's,were also following the law. Bet that gives you the warm and fuzzies wood,doesn't it? After all,weren't the owners of Germany,the Nazi's using their authori-tay to force the Jews off their private property? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Are you serious? ONE still photo of the cop with his hand on her chest proves he never had his hand on her neck,DESPITE the video clearly showing his hand was on her throat before it went to her chest? What next,you going to show us a still photo of the storm trooper shaving before going to work to be a mall cop,and claiming that is also proof he didn't have his hand on her neck? You have an industrial-sized case of Asperger's Syndrome,don't you? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
I don't have any problem at all discussing issues with educated people. What does that have to do with conversing with a boot-licker like you? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
That's the way it looked to me. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Isn't it typical these days for every word a cop says to a suspect,and every word the suspect says to the cop to be automatically recorded? Maybe not in small town 3 deputy PD's,but surely in big cities like Tacoma. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Stinky Peter and all the other drug loving agenda posters are one-trick-ponies. Every officers actions must me a constitutional violation. When you love drugs, and it's the job of law enforcement to enforce drug laws, then it's the job of the drug lover to wage war against the cops. Their WAR IS A FAILURE. The was against cops. That's why they always act like assholes and yella everything. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Are you sure of that. Looks to me like they were prepared to call in air strikes. After all,it was private property and they were being invaded,right? Yet another stupid statement from you … as least this one is mild. You can't loose an online debate gracefully and admit that you are wrong, You have to become irrational to cover your embarassing defeat. That always happens with you. Oh, well …
How did mall management know. Are they psycic? No, Pete ... they are psychic. Communication is important to security officers and law enforcement officers . Often, they need to relay messages and information further than would otherwise be possible via verbal means. In order to achieve this, a security officer has a number of tools at his/her disposal. There are such things as the mobile phone, short message service, Morse code (not so common these days) and of course, the radio. Ever hear about that new nee fangled contraption called, a radio … Pete?
I don't have any problem at all discussing issues with educated people. What does that have to do with conversing with a boot-licker like you? “There you go again” reverting to the use of yet another ad hominem fallacy. You loose the discussion and revert to an irrelevant perceived characteristic. Generally, intelligent and educated people do not make such assertions. Well, at least not the normal internet trolls. But then, whoever said that you are normal …
That's the way it looked to me. Well at least your eyes function, although you brain is half dead. She was fleeing the scene and the officer had the right to detain her. Geeze ...
There you go again. You simply can't stay on topic. Your "BTW" has absolutely nothing to do with actions involving the girl's arrest. Well, I guess I can understand your diversion ... you have nothing to intelligent to add to the discussion. But, what did you ever add that was intelligent ...
The cop shouldn't treat this "child" that way. Why, she could lose her baby.
Uh, Deckard hasn’t been on thread since just after he started the thread. Looks like he grabbed his “bugout bag” and headed for his hideout to keep from getting his ass kicked again. It could be our bad luck that he drops by this morning with some of his “warped words of wisdom” … we shall see.
He's like the MSM -- publish an inflammatory story weak on facts and strong on innuendo then walk away. Any retraction will be done weeks later. But don't bother looking for one.
Just another one of his many disorders, showing intent to violate the rights of others and always going against society.
Just another one of his many disorders, showing intent to violate the rights of others and always going against society. Decktard's just another SJW, encouraging anti-social behavior. Decktardian yellow journalism splashes out sensational headlines but once the facts are in their story suffers from narrative collapse, but they're already spamming 12 other lies. Tawana Brawley till now, these SJW's like Sharpton, Triggleypuff and Decktard do not change their spots. Non auro, sed ferro, recuperando est patria
Very well stated ... I agree.
How can I be the one that is wrong,when it is you and your posse that are defending a full-grown cop (I won't use the word "man")throwing a unarmed skinny 15 year old girl to the pavement and then tazing her? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Often, they need to relay messages and information further than would otherwise be possible via verbal means. In order to achieve this, a security officer has a number of tools at his/her disposal. There are such things as the mobile phone, short message service, Morse code (not so common these days) and of course, the radio. Ever hear about that new nee fangled contraption called, a radio … Pete? Yeah,I have. How long does it take to put down the donut,see some VERY dangerous-looking invaders riding across the parking lot,pick up the radio,explain to the cop what he sees wrong and what they want to do about it,compared to how long it takes for a couple of teens to bicycle across a parking lot? The cop was trolling for kids on bicycles,period. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
I am proud to say that compared to apparatchiks like you,I am far from normal. I happen to believe that in THIS country the police are supposed to be the servants of the people,not the servants of the masters in their chain of command,and the masters of the people. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
"fleeing the scene"? The scene of WHAT? Who did she murder? Or maybe she raped somebody? Committed armed robbery? SHE WAS RIDING A BICYCLE ACROSS A FREAKING PARKING LOT. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
The turning of America into a police state IS the topic,bubba. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Actually, America has already turned into a police state and there is no going back.
I really wish I could argue with that,but I can't. ...and there is no going back. Not short of citizens taking up their guns to take back control of the government,and I see that as being less likely to happen with each passing year. People only talk about hiding their guns,nobody talks about taking them up. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Security and a cop seems to work for stupid assholes.
One need not be psychic to monitor security cameras. The security monitor with the cop did not need to be psychic. They just did not need to be a big a fuckup as pete.
The one yot said they did it all the time. Security was waiting for them. Bicycles cannot otrun police cruisers. It is simple, except for assholes.
No one but a perfect asshole suggests he use his nightstick to bludgeon the yoot into submission.
I can't help if you are too much of a stupid fuck to understand U.S. law.
It was on her throat for about a second before it was lowered. If you don't like it, donate to the yoot's legal fund.
You are incapable of doing it, and do not do it. You apparently do not consider it a problem.
That's the way it looked to me. She received the proper attitude adjustment. She knew better. You know better.
Because, as you have repeatedly shown, you are a fucking idiot. The yoot did not seem amenable to counseling.
Perhaps the yoots should not have taken the time to joy ride, cutting off cars, and swearing and yelling at anyone who honked at them, bringing their miscreant selves to the attention of mall security.
Stinky Peter Puff is sympathetic towards fags, criminal activity and drug addicts... just like the others that post and defend each other. Who else defends criminals, drug use and fags? The Dimrats.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
It must have been from all that time in the Army following orders.
The scene where she was lawfully detained, and subsequently lawfully tased and arrested.
The lawful detention and then arrest of a miscreant yoot is the subject.
Stinky Peter is just another of those who knows nothing of the law, but loves to go on and on about his expertise. When he is proven absolutely wrong, he then bring out his ultmate argument that the other party is a nazi, an asshole, a statist, etc. etc. More like a whore, when the argument gets to be too much, Deckard starts a new thread and uses it like a new corner where he starts all over as a virgin.
Nolu Chan is just another of those who claims vast knowledge of how our law MUST be applied (disregarding Constitutional restraints) and loves to go on and on about his erroneous expertise.
More like a whore, when the argument gets to be too much, Deckard starts a new thread and uses it like a new corner where he starts all over as a virgin. Exactly. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Why is it that you pro drug addict posters feel the need to fight each other's battles? Is it because you are all too much of a pussy to do it yourself? When we pick on the faggot lover Pete or the career criminal lover Deckard, does it make you sad? You need a tissue? I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
As to te law, especially the Constitution, you are fucking idiot, idiocy which you repeatedly display. Not only do you have no fucking idea what you are talking about, you are unwilling or unable to learn. In the instant case, the Complaint raises no constitutional issue or federal issue. From the Complaint, by the yoot's lawyer, the officer stopped her to give her a traspass notice because of disruptive behavior. 4.8. Plaintiff asked Defendant Williams why he had stopped her and her brother. 4.9. Defendant Williams responded that Plaintiff was causing a disturbance and was being "trespassed" from the Mall because of her disruptive behavior. 4.10. Plaintiff again asked why she was being stopped. After a short time and because she had committed no crime, Plaintiff attempted to proceed on her way home. 4.11. When Plaintiff attempted to pedal her bike away from the situation, Defendant Williams erupted and began physically assaulting and brutalizing the Plaintiff. 4.15 Defendent Williams' actions were conducted durng and in the course of his employment with Defendent Universal Protection Service and Defendant Simon Property Group. From a 2015 KOMO News article: By Elisa Jaffe [excerpt] Before the officer could write anything down, Tillman admits she tried to ride away. That's when he grabbed her. [...] "I did have a bit of an attitude, but that's because it was a waste of my time. I hadn't done anything wrong," she said. The police report described the kids cutting off cars earlier, swearing and yelling at anyone who honked at them, and that the mall wanted them stopped and given a trespassing notice. [...] The report claims Tillman, who says she's a straight A student at Bates Technical High School, became belligerent, swearing, screaming, and resisting until she was Tased by the Tacoma officer. Or, as Matt Agorist puts it in the main thread article, As for Complaint paragraph 4-15, police spokesperson "Cool said the second he was called on to order the teens off the private property and turned his lights on, the officer was working on the city's payroll, not the mall's." As soon as Officer Williams was on the city payroll, Defendent Universal Protection Service and Defendant Simon Property Group are not responsible and Officer Williams has limited immunity. The Complainant will rapidly have no defendant. The Complaint at 4.14 states, "Plaintiff was charged with assault on a police officer and a police officer and resisting arrest, charges which were dismissed after trial." This does not state that these were the only charges brought.
I'm against unconstitutional 'wars' on drugs/guns/etc. -- Drug addicts kill themselves young, 'solving' the problem. The pussies on this forum are your pack of clowns, not Pete or I, who disagree quite often. Yep, I need boxes of Kleenex to mop up from laughing at you pussies.
His temerity is but one of his basic character flaws and “dark” personality defects. His resolute adherence to his own opinions and ideas is the kind of behavior usually seen in spoilt children unwilling and unable to learn.
The only thing scumbags excell at is acting more ignorant than they really are.... what did I do wrong? Why are you arresting me? Why are you cuffing me? Why are you grabbing me? Why are you tazing meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee zap! The real question... why did you resist? Because you thought playing ignorant removed the officers PROBABLE CAUSE FOR ARREST. Well news flash, that tactic only works on libtard bleeding hearts. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Nolu Chan is just another of those who claims vast knowledge of how our law MUST be applied (disregarding Constitutional restraints) and loves to go on and on about his erroneous expertise. And when you are exposed as erroneous, you then bring out your ultmate argument, --- that the other party is an idiot, unable to learn, etc. etc.
Not before they victimize the more valuable people of society by running up a 75 page criminal history. I'm huge fan of natural selection... but you libtards interfer with it because of your bleeding hearts. Like AIDS treatment, useless drug courts and reduced sentencing. So crime and AIDS spread for many years before they "kill themselves young". I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Your cowardice, a basic character flaw, is noted. Normally applauded by rational people, who honor our constitutional principles. I need more Kleenex..
He has an overwhelming and instinctual response need to be right, to be the victor. He likes to argue. If no one is arguing with him, he then seeks out arguments between other to join in. There is an old proverb that states, “If you’re arguing with someone for more than five minutes, chances are it’s not about them or their actions. It’s about you.” That expresses effectively some commonplace truth or useful thought far above his comprehension level.
What you need most are the challenges in the design of clinically useless brain examined.
I'm against unconstitutional 'wars' on drugs/guns/etc. -- Drug addicts kill themselves young, 'solving' the problem. That's where we need you cops.. As soon as an addict commits a crime, bust him. Then let it take place. End these unconstitutional prohibitions. You advocates of majority rule are the bleeding hearts that have made those 'laws', not us constitutional conservatives.
One may wish that were only resultant of drug addiction. However, drugs (and alcohol) are the resulting cause in an estimated 80% of offenses such as domestic violence, driving while intoxicated, property offenses, public-order offenses, robbery, rape and murder. Criminality and substance abuse have long been linked.
How droll can you get? -- We're all here to discuss the issues of the day. -- Gatlin argues that I'm arguing? And here you clowns are, arguing with me, not about principles, but about personality. -- It's about you.. So you claim, thoughtlessly.
That's great. Then you bleeding heart liberals would be against a "War on Addicts on Drugs." Whew ...
Your "discussions" are always "arguments" ... arguments with invalid assumptions.
Drug addicts kill themselves young, 'solving' the problem. You must realize that you're repeating the mantra that lead to the prohibitory wars on booze and drugs, -- the direct cause of our present mess?
That's where we need you cops.. As soon as an addict commits a crime, bust him. Name the invalid assumptions, and we can discuss them. By the way, your own invalid assumption is that I'm a "bleeding heart liberal".. Get real..
I fully realize that drugs are a problem ... in that drugs are the cause of severe problems not only to the user, but also to other people. You are correct, drugs are a direct cause of our present mess.
There is no discussing with you, there are only invalid arguments coming from you. I have wasted enough time here ...
I have wasted enough time here ... We're both wasting time, I'm sure. But what the hell, it's another rainy morning here, and its amusing to run out of Kleenex..
Her street name was Dindo Nuffin.
For the record,I haven't looked at this thread in 2 days now,and I have no interests in sorting through all those posts to just reinforce the fact that Fire Island and Gatlin are queer for cops,and nolu chan is a soulless pompous ass.
BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
#2. To: Gatlin (#1)
Tacoma residents say rowdy teens terrorizing neighborhood
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#3. To: Deckard, *Crime and Corruption* (#0)
Charges HER with Assualt
#4. To: Deckard (#0)
Two Tacoma teenagers have been charged as adults in a shootout near the Tacoma Mall Transit Center that left a 17-year-old boy severely wounded.
#5. To: Deckard (#0)
#6. To: Gatlin (#4)
Two Tacoma teenagers have been charged as adults in a shootout near the Tacoma Mall Transit Center that left a 17-year-old boy severely wounded.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#7. To: Deckard (#2)
A couple of kids riding their bikes are "rowdy teens terrorizing neighborhood"?
Look, I know you are one of the "cops are gods" contingent here at LF, but seriously? You really believe that the story you posted somehow justifies the cops behavior?
Williams then arrested Monique and charged her with resisting arrest and, get this, assault on an officer.
I read that. After viewing the surveillance video of the incident, however, all of the charges were thrown out.You must have missed that part.
#8. To: Gatlin, *Crime and Corruption* (#1)
Jarmon has shuttered his windows and even put up a net to prevent rocks from doing more damage to his Tacoma home. He has even captured video of the teens hurling rocks into houses and cars.
#9. To: Gatlin (#1)
And another neighbor a few homes away has been the victim of an attempted burglary. Neighbors say the teens also spew racial slurs on loud bullhorns in the middle of the night and even bang on front doors of homes and townhouses.
#10. To: sneakypete (#5)
The girl CLEARLY was trying to ride away on her bicycle
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#11. To: Deckard (#2)
Tacoma residents say rowdy teens terrorizing neighborhood
#12. To: Gatlin (#4)
Two Tacoma teenagers have been charged as adults in a shootout near the Tacoma Mall Transit Center that left a 17-year-old boy severely wounded.
#13. To: Deckard (#6)
Two Tacoma teenagers have been charged as adults in a shootout near the Tacoma Mall Transit Center that left a 17-year-old boy severely wounded.
Yep, that happened I didn't see either one of the kids riding their bike in the possession of a weapon.
Neither did I. Perhaps you need to look at the video.
Nope, once was enough. Your attempt to portray these two innocent kids as hardened criminals is beyond pathetic, but as we are all well aware, you suffer from a pathological fetish for authority.
Where did I portray two innocent kids as hardened criminals? Really, Deckard … you are never fully aware of anything that happens anywhere. You read what you want to read, only to reinforce your already preformed biases. Once again - the 15 year old girl riding her bike who was brutally assaulted by police had nothing to do with any shootout.
Of course not. Your miserable attempt to defend the cops' actions here speaks volumes of your dishonesty and lack of character.
I defended not cops’s actions here. Your snap judgment without due consideration to objective reasons speaks volumes of your biased hatred for cops. Williams then arrested Monique and charged her with resisting arrest and, get this, assault on an officer.
Yep. After viewing the surveillance video of the incident, however, all of the charges were thrown out.
That’s correct. Yet you continue to defend the cops.
Where have I defended the cops here … WHERE?
#14. To: sneakypete (#12)
Why wasn't Trent charged with attempted murder?
#15. To: sneakypete (#9)
And another neighbor a few homes away has been the victim of an attempted burglary. Neighbors say the teens also spew racial slurs on loud bullhorns in the middle of the night and even bang on front doors of homes and townhouses. "I feel like it's a ticking time bomb for this situation," said Pasana.
#16. To: Deckard (#10)
The girl CLEARLY was trying to ride away on her bicycle
#17. To: Gatlin (#13)
Where have I defended the cops here
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#18. To: Gatlin (#14)
Why wasn't Trent charged with attempted murder?
#19. To: sneakypete (#16)
admitting against your will that she WAS trying to get away.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#20. To: Deckard (#10)
A shopping center parking lot is by definition public property
#21. To: Deckard (#19)
The cop had no business stopping her, that much has already been established.
#22. To: sneakypete (#8)
If society really wanted to stop this crap all they would have to do would be force mama out of the "free" government housing,cut off her check she is paid to take care of the children she is getting paid welfare to raise,and put her off sprung into child care where they could be taught manners. I can guarantee you that you won't have to cut off the "free" housing,paychecks,and food stamps to more than 2 or 3 professional baby mamas before the rest of them take a sudden and rabid interest in the conduct and activity of their bastard children.
#23. To: Deckard (#19)
Private security guards work for the private business that they are hired by. If your employer can search your stuff at work (part of terms of employment, company policy, or contract deal etc.), then the hired security guard can do so. Fourth amendment protection only applies to governmental intrusion. Security guards are not agents of the government.
#24. To: Gatlin (#20)
If the shopping center parking lot is privately owned, then it is private property.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#25. To: Gatlin (#23)
If your employer can search your stuff at work (part of terms of employment, company policy, or contract deal etc.), then the hired security guard can do so.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#26. To: Deckard (#19)
Looking at the video again, it's not clear that she was trying to get away.
#27. To: Deckard (#25)
(Edited)
#28. To: Deckard (#17)
Where have I defended the cops here
#29. To: Gatlin (#26)
it is not clear to me that she did not say, "you can't stop me for anything, you fucking pig and I am leaving rat now and you can't do anything about it ..."
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#30. To: Deckard (#29)
it is not clear to me that she did not say, "you can't stop me for anything, you fucking pig and I am leaving rat now and you can't do anything about it ..."
#31. To: Gatlin (#4)
#32. To: Don, Deckard (#31)
This girl didn't pull out a gun, didn't attack an officer, but she was assaulted in a vicious manner. Four against the girl and the boy, who did nothing, won the day. Come on, folks, no one likes a bully.
Top Republican Warns Obama Might Make Black People Immune From Prosecution ‘Regardless Of The Crime’
#33. To: Gatlin (#32)
Excessive speed is one of the restrictions posted against bicycle riders in most all mall parking lots.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#34. To: Deckard (#33)
#35. To: Deckard, Gatlin, sneakypete, GrandIsland (#0)
In his report, he claimed Tillman and her brother were cutting off cars with their bicycles and yelling and swearing at drivers.
4.13. Defendant Williams then handcuffed Plaintiff and put her into a patrol car.
4.14. Plaintiff was charged with assault on a police officer and resisting arrest, charges which were dismissed after trial.
4.17. Defendant Williams' conduct proximately caused Plaintiffs injuries, harms and damages.
5.1. The acts and omissions of all Defendants proximately caused Plaintiff Monique Charlene Tillman to suffer physical injuries, physical and mental pain and suffering, embarrassment and discomfort.
Tasered teen: 'It felt like electricity running through my veins'
KOMOnews.com
Tuesday, February 10th
#36. To: nolu chan, Deckard (#35)
In his report, he claimed Tillman and her brother were cutting off cars with their bicycles and yelling and swearing at drivers.
#37. To: nolu chan (#35)
#38. To: Gatlin (#36)
So, Deckard, Mister Always Right Cop-Hater ... will you ever wait until you have all the information available
#39. To: Roscoe (#38)
So, Deckard, Mister Always Right Cop-Hater ... will you ever wait until you have all the information available
#40. To: Gatlin (#34)
These EDITED tapes NEVER show the BEFORE ...
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#41. To: Gatlin, nolu chan, Roscoe (#36)
In his report, he claimed Tillman and her brother were cutting off cars with their bicycles and yelling and swearing at drivers.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#42. To: Don (#35)
#43. To: Gatlin (#32)
#44. To: Deckard (#41)
In his report, he claimed Tillman and her brother were cutting off cars with their bicycles and yelling and swearing at drivers.
#45. To: Deckard (#41)
Then why were the kids not charged with that offense?
#46. To: Deckard, Gatlin, Roscoe (#41)
In his report, he claimed Tillman and her brother were cutting off cars with their bicycles and yelling and swearing at drivers.
#47. To: Deckard (#41)
Then why were the kids not charged with that offense?
#48. To: Roscoe, Deckard (#45)
#49. To: Gatlin (#20)
A shopping center parking lot is by definition public property
#50. To: nativist nationalist (#22)
#51. To: Gatlin (#23)
Private security guards work for the private business that they are hired by. If your employer can search your stuff at work (part of terms of employment, company policy, or contract deal etc.), then the hired security guard can do so. Fourth amendment protection only applies to governmental intrusion. Security guards are not agents of the government.
#52. To: Gatlin (#26)
There is no audio, so it is not clear to me that she did not say, "you can't stop me for anything, you fucking pig and I am leaving rat now and you can't do anything about it ..."
#53. To: nolu chan (#35)
The police report described the kids cutting off cars earlier, swearing and yelling at anyone who honked at them, and that the mall wanted them stopped and given a trespassing notice.
#54. To: sneakypete, nolu chan (#49)
A shopping center parking lot is by definition public property
By whose definition ... yours?
By any sane definition known to man.
Or do the words "open to the public" confuse you? Open to the Public -
A shopping center lot is not a public parking lot if it's a privately owned parking lot belonging to the owner of the shopping mall. The people leasing the property or the owners of the property can tow you if you don't park according to their wishes. The privately owned parking lots at the shopping malls are “open to the public” to provide a great service by allowing us access to retail and office centers. The owners or management controls access to a privately owned shopping center parking lot “open to the public.” In Cincinnati recently private event club transitioned to a cocktail bar and lounge that’s “open to the public.” While it is “open to the public,” the management or owners can have you leave if there is sufficient reason to. “Open to the public” does not mean it is public property, that the public can have access anytime they desire or do anything the want to. It is still private property if it is privately owned or owned by a corporation and they control the “dos and don'ts.”
Property owned by the government or one of its agencies, divisions, or entities. Commonly a reference to parks, playgrounds, streets, sidewalks, schools, libraries and other property regularly used by the general public.
Land not owned by the government or dedicated to public use.
the only purpose for which private property can be taken (condemned) by the government under its power of eminent domain. Public use includes: schools, streets, highways, hospitals, government buildings, parks, water reservoirs, flood control, slum clearance and redevelopment, public housing, public theaters and stadiums, safety facilities, harbors, bridges, railroads, airports, terminals, prisons, jails, public utilities, canals, and numerous other purposes designated as beneficial to the public.
The giving of land by a private person or entity to the government, typically for a street, park or school site, as part of and a condition of a real estate development. The local county or city (or other public body) must accept the dedication before it is complete. In many cases there are "dedicated" streets on old subdivision maps which were never officially accepted and, in effect, belong to no one. The adjoining property owners can sue for a judgment to give them the title to the unclaimed (unowned) street or property (quiet title action) or request abandonment by the government which did not accept the street or other property.
#55. To: sneakypete (#5)
Ok,just watched the video and need to point out two things. The girl CLEARLY was trying to ride away on her bicycle when he first grabbed her,
and she was CLEARLY resisting arrest when he started tossing her around,choking her,and tasing her.
The most important thing to point out is that HE HAD NO AUTHORITY TO STOP HER TO START WITH. A shopping center parking lot is by definition public property,and he has no legal or moral authority to stop anyone from entering it at any time of the day or night.
Which nullifies the first point about her resisting arrest. He had no right to stop or try to arrest her,so she can't be charged with resisting an illegal arrest.
Officer Cartman was just having one of those "You WILL respect my authoritay!" moments. SOB should be fired and sued by both the city and the girls parents.
#56. To: sneakypete (#53)
(Edited)
You mean to tell me these two 15 and 16 year old kids had nothing better to do that spend a good part of the afternoon riding bicycles around a mall parking lot to deliberately cut off cars and cause people to beep their horns and scream at them,and they were doing this long enough for calls to 9-11 to be made and police to be dispatched to arrest those desperadoes?
Security video shows Tillman, now 16, talking with an off-duty Tacoma Police officer hired by the mall for crime prevention.
#57. To: Deckard, sneakypete (#10)
HE HAD NO AUTHORITY TO STOP HER TO START WITH. A shopping center parking lot is by definition public property
#58. To: sneakypete, nolu chan (#53)
You mean to tell me these two 15 and 16 year old kids had nothing better to do that spend a good part of the afternoon riding bicycles around a mall parking lot to deliberately cut off cars and cause people to beep their horns and scream at them …
…and they were doing this long enough for calls to 9-11 to be made and police to be dispatched to arrest those desperadoes?
Just how freaking likely is that?
#59. To: sneakypete, Gatlin (#51)
I know you have a limited attention span,so I will just point out that the kids riding through the parking lot were NOT employees of the corporation that owns the mall,and that bozo was wearing his city police uniform,not a security guard uniform. Which means he was representing the city to the public,not representing the mall corporation.
Of the officer, [Tacoma Police Department Public Information Officer Loretta] Cool said, "His presence at the Tacoma Mall, even though off duty and paid by mall, he's a police officer and he's acting as a police officer."
#60. To: nolu chan, sneakypete (#56)
#61. To: Pinguinite, sneakypete (#55)
Once a cop starts that kind of treatment, even if it's warranted which in this case sure appears it was not, the person being so attacked is not legally liable for any kind of resistant or defensive action. Or shouldn't be.
#62. To: sneakypete (#52)
There is no audio, so it is not clear to me that she did not say, "you can't stop me for anything, you fucking pig and I am leaving rat now and you can't do anything about it ..."
#63. To: sneakypete (#51)
(Edited)
I know you have a limited attention span,so I will just point out that the kids riding through the parking lot were NOT employees of the corporation that owns the mall,
I never said they were employees of the corporation … did I? …and that bozo was wearing his city police uniform,not a security guard uniform. Which means he was representing the city to the public,not representing the mall corporation.
True and True.
#64. To: Gatlin (#60)
I did not see this post before I responded to sneakypete.
#65. To: nolu chan (#61)
You are consistent in what you want the law to be, but you are consistently wrong.
She is required to comply with the commands of the officer. He may escalate his force to whatever it takes to force her compliance.
Resisting the officer in his duties is not self-defence.
#66. To: sneakypete, Gatlin (#51)
I know you have a limited attention span,so I will just point out that the kids riding through the parking lot were NOT employees of the corporation that owns the mall
They'd left McDonald's and decided to take a short cut home through the mall's lot.
#67. To: sneakypete (#51)
and that bozo was wearing his city police uniform,not a security guard uniform. Which means he was representing the city to the public,not representing the mall corporation.
#68. To: nolu chan (#66)
The police report described the kids cutting off cars earlier, swearing and yelling at anyone who honked at them, and that the mall wanted them stopped and given a trespassing notice.
#69. To: Pinguinite (#65)
But not beyond that needed, which from the video certainly seems to be the case here
the girl can hardly be held responsible for whatever action she takes in her own self-defense from that point forward
#70. To: Pinguinite, sneakypete (#67)
So apparently, he was wearing the police uniform inappropriately because he was not acting in the capacity of a city police officer, but only in the capacity of a mall security guard.
#71. To: Gatlin (#54)
Open to the Public - A shopping center lot is not a public parking lot if it's a privately owned parking lot belonging to the owner of the shopping mall. The people leasing the property or the owners of the property can tow you if you don't park according to their wishes. The privately owned parking lots at the shopping malls are “open to the public” to provide a great service by allowing us access to retail and office centers. The owners or management controls access to a privately owned shopping center parking lot “open to the public.” In Cincinnati recently private event club transitioned to a cocktail bar and lounge that’s “open to the public.” While it is “open to the public,” the management or owners can have you leave if there is sufficient reason to. “Open to the public” does not mean it is public property, that the public can have access anytime they desire or do anything the want to. It is still private property if it is privately owned or owned by a corporation and they control the “dos and don'ts.”
#72. To: nolu chan (#69)
She unlawfully tried to flee and resisted. He overcame her resistence with the taser. She could have complied at any time.
It is unlawful resistance, not self-defence.
#73. To: Pinguinite (#55)
and she was CLEARLY resisting arrest when he started tossing her around,choking her,and tasing her.
#74. To: Gatlin (#70)
There are a number of cities that have a formal program that allow their police officers to be serve as private security while they are in uniform. LA and NYC are but two of those cities.
#75. To: nolu chan (#56)
Read much before posting?
#76. To: nolu chan (#57)
This shopping center parking lot belonged to the mall owner and was private property.
#77. To: sneakypete (#73)
Too many cops are their own worse enemies because they create enemies where none existed before by being power-mad abusive assholes.
One of life's greatest wonders to me is why more people aren't sniping at policemen from rooftops.
#78. To: Gatlin (#58)
Where did you read that anyone called 911? Where did you read that the police were dispatched to arrest the kids?
#79. To: nolu chan (#59)
At #35:
#80. To: nolu chan (#61)
You are consistent in what you want the law to be, but you are consistently wrong. She is required to comply with the commands of the officer. He may escalate his force to whatever it takes to force her compliance. Resisting the officer in his duties is not self-defence.
#81. To: nolu chan (#66)
The kids were not there for any purpose but to use it as a short cut. Mall security wanted the kids to be given a traspassing notice.
#82. To: sneakypete (#76)
HorseHillary. Show me ONE example of any mall having people arrested for tresspassing for doing nothing more than driving through the parking lot,and the arrest sticking
#83. To: Pinguinite (#67)
But the police are not being sued. So apparently, he was wearing the police uniform inappropriately because he was not acting in the capacity of a city police officer, but only in the capacity of a mall security guard.
#84. To: nolu chan (#69)
No, it does not appear so. The officer did not strike her and did not choke her.
#85. To: sneakypete (#79)
He had his car, his uniform, and his Taser. Cool said the second he was called on to order the teens off the private property and turned his lights on, the officer was working on the city's payroll, not the mall's.
#86. To: Pinguinite (#82)
I actually had a friend who worked as a Santa Claus at a mall. I never found out the details, but some kind of altercation occurred where the mall ended up firing him or discontinuing whatever contract they had, and in addition the mall specifically disinvited him from returning even to shop. I think it would be considered trespassing if he were to return. I was told that if he wanted to return after a year, he could write to them and ask permission and they'd consider lifting the restriction.
#87. To: Pinguinite (#85)
Well that's certainly interesting. He was using a city police car & gas to moonlight a private job? And then as soon as he flips a switch in the car, he's automatically making overtime from the city?
#88. To: sneakypete, nolu chan (#84)
The officer did not strike her and did not choke her.
He didn't have his hand around her throat?
#89. To: sneakypete (#86)
The girl and her brother were trying to leave,and the cop prevented them from leaving.
If they had came back AFTER being warned to not return,then the mall would have a trespassing case. You can NOT arrest someone for trespassing when you are the one that kept them from leaving.
#90. To: sneakypete (#71)
#91. To: A K A Stone (#90)
A mall parking lot is private property.
#92. To: Pinguinite (#91)
#93. To: Pinguinite, sneakypete, Gatlin (#67)
But the police are not being sued. So apparently, he was wearing the police uniform inappropriately because he was not acting in the capacity of a city police officer, but only in the capacity of a mall security guard.
Of the officer, [Tacoma Police Department Public Information Officer Loretta] Cool said, "His presence at the Tacoma Mall, even though off duty and paid by mall, he's a police officer and he's acting as a police officer."
RONALD LEE GILMAN, Circuit Judge. While attending a Cleveland Indians baseball game, Jeffrey Swiecicki, along with several of his friends, loudly cheered for some players and heckled others. Officer Jose Delgado, an off-duty police officer for the City of Cleveland, was in full uniform and working for the ballpark as a security guard. He allegedly heard Swiecicki using profane language. Delgado asked Swiecicki to halt his behavior or leave the stadium. When Swiecicki did not respond, Delgado placed Swiecicki in the “escort position” and began leading him out of the bleachers. In the course of leaving the stadium, Delgado arrested Swiecicki and wrestled him to the ground.
At all relevant times, Delgado, a City of Cleveland police officer, was working as a security guard and was stationed at a tunnel near the bleachers where Swiecicki and his friends were seated. Delgado was officially off-duty, but he was wearing his police uniform with his badge and was carrying the weapons issued by the police department.
C. Delgado’s status as a state actor.
#94. To: Pinguinite, Gatlin (#68)
If so, the offense was not trespassing, but disturbing the peace.
#95. To: nolu chan (#93)
This appears to be just wrong and without any legal merit.
#96. To: Gatlin, Pinguinite, sneakypete (#70)
There are a number of cities that have a formal program that allow their police officers to be serve as private security while they are in uniform. LA and NYC are but two of those cities. I don’t know the Tacoma police policy on this.
Tacoma, Bellevue, Seattle, WA. Security Guard and Patrol Insurance
Serving The Seattle Area Since 1997
Of the officer, [Tacoma Police Department Public Information Officer Loretta] Cool said, "His presence at the Tacoma Mall, even though off duty and paid by mall, he's a police officer and he's acting as a police officer."
#97. To: nolu chan (#94)
Rather than give her information, the young lady decided to give a ration of shit and pedal away.
How do you know what reason was given in criminal proceedings for the initial stop? It is in proceedings against a minor.
How can you confirm any information from what happened in the criminal proceedings. I have been unable to find any citation to the case, the court, the judge, or the date of any proceeding in the case.
#98. To: sneakypete, Gatlin (#71)
HOW were the mall owners going to call tow trucks to tow off the kids bicycles that were just traveling THROUGH the parking lot?
A mall parking lot IS public property,and the only time the public is forbidden access to that property is when those INDIVIDUALS have broken some of the rules and management has told them to leave.
#99. To: Pinguinite (#72)
The officer clearly threw her to the ground with his left hand firmly holding her hair. The taser followed. In sum, it easily appeared to me as excessive force, and apart from what did appear to be an attempt by the girl to leave the scene, there is no obvious move of resistance to me through the rest of the ordeal.
But if a cop can kill out of reasonable fear for his own life, then that right has to apply to citizens as well.
And the more cops are trained to shoot at the slightest provocation, the more reason informed citizens have to be fearful of cops who point guns at them.
#100. To: sneakypete, Pinguinite (#73)
The girl was peacefully (not using force) to resist arrest by peddling away,and was then assaulted by the thug with the badge.
#101. To: Pinguinite, Gatlin (#74)
Okay, but in any event, since the city is not named as a defendant in the case, it's apparent that the cop was not acting in the capacity of a cop when working for the mall.
#102. To: sneakypete (#71)
A mall parking lot IS public property,and the only time the public is forbidden access to that property is when those INDIVIDUALS have broken some of the rules and management has told them to leave.
#103. To: sneakypete (#75)
Think much before posting?
Frankly,I don't begin to understand why the Tacoma PD is backing that fool,and leaving themselves and the city open to lawsuits.
#104. To: sneakypete (#102)
HOW were the mall owners going to call tow trucks to tow off the kids bicycles that were just traveling THROUGH the parking lot?
Blah,blah,blah. You are more full of shit than a Thanksgiving turkey.
#105. To: sneakypete (#104)
Are you now claiming mall owners have a right to imprison people passing through?
I am not claiming that, but I will say that the police officer who stopped them definitely had the right to arrest them … all day long.
#106. To: sneakypete (#76)
This shopping center parking lot belonged to the mall owner and was private property.
Public property. This term is commonly used as a designation of those things which are publici juris (q.v.), and therefore considered as being owned by "the public," the entire state or community, and not restricted to the dominion of a private person. It may also apply to any subject of property owned by a state, nation, or municipal corporation as such.
#107. To: sneakypete (#78)
(Edited)
Where did you read that anyone called 911? Where did you read that the police were dispatched to arrest the kids?
The police officer was working the parking lot as a hired security officer. The mall management has direct contact with its security officers. He knew what was happening because the mall management told him and instructed him what to do.
#108. To: sneakypete, Gatlin (#78)
I know the cop was psychotic,but that doesn't mean he was psychic. Just exactly how did he know all this was happening in no one called 9-11?
Tasered teen: 'It felt like electricity running through my veins'
KOMOnews.com
Tuesday, February 10th, 2015
#109. To: sneakypete (#79)
Good to know you think police departments work for mall owners.
#110. To: sneakypete (#80)
You really are the perfect little Nazi,aren't you?
#111. To: sneakypete (#81)
The kids were not there for any purpose but to use it as a short cut. Mall security wanted the kids to be given a traspassing notice.
#112. To: sneakypete (#84)
He didn't have his hand around her throat?
#113. To: sneakypete (#80)
You are consistent in what you want the law to be, but you are consistently wrong. She is required to comply with the commands of the officer.
Ah, when you are losing a debate … invoke Goodwin’s law. Godwin's law, or Godwin's rule of Nazi analogies, is an Internet adage asserting that as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler increases … sooner or later someone will compare someone to Hitler or Nazism.
Not surprising that you just did … so typical of you to do so. All that education,and not a speck of common sense or humanity.
How long have you had the problem of carrying on a discussion with educated people?
#114. To: Pinguinite, sneakypete (#85)
Well that's certainly interesting. He was using a city police car & gas to moonlight a private job? And then as soon as he flips a switch in the car, he's automatically making overtime from the city?
Here, we believe the record establishes that Delgado was a state actor from the beginning of the incident in question because he “presented himself as a police officer.” Parks, 395 F.3d at 652. Our conclusion is based not only on Delgado’s attire, badge, and weapons, but also on the fact that Delgado told Swiecicki that “[w]e can either do this the easy way or the hard way.”
#115. To: Pinguinite, sneakypete (#89)
Actually looking at it again, she does make a move on the bike, but she may not have been trying to leave. She may have been getting off the bike, or maybe just wanted to move the bike away a couple feet from between the 2 cops before dismounting. Or maybe she really was trying to leave.
Tasered teen: 'It felt like electricity running through my veins'
KOMOnews.com
Tuesday, February 10th, 2015
#116. To: nolu chan (#112)
No, he did not.
Still photo: Hand not on neck
#117. To: nolu chan (#115)
Tillman admits she tried to ride away.
#118. To: Pinguinite, A K A Stone (#91)
So even though it is private, people are welcome to come on to the property and enter the buildings without need of special authorization from the owner, as is needed in the case of a private home.
#119. To: nolu chan (#118)
But people may be ordered to leave and not come back.
The people are welcome to enter to use the private property for the purpose for which it was intended, with good behavior.
#120. To: Pinguinite (#95)
Simple question then. If it's wrong, then why isn't the city being sued by the family of the 15 year old? Why instead are they suing the cop, the mall, and the security company that is paying the cop?
#121. To: Pinguinite (#97)
Rather than give her information, the young lady decided to give a ration of shit and pedal away.
On further review, she may not have been trying to leave the scene, but only dismount from the bike, perhaps first manuvering out from between the 2 cops. If she was trying to leave, she certainly didn't try to get a jump start on them.
Tasered teen: 'It felt like electricity running through my veins'
KOMOnews.com
Tuesday, February 10th, 2015
#122. To: nolu chan (#121)
#123. To: Pinguinite (#119)
But not unilaterally.
#124. To: Pinguinite (#116)
Check out video at about 1:06. You'll see he's got his other arm (right) which does appear to be at the girl's throat.
#125. To: Pinguinite (#122)
I was referring not to her riding away, but to your assessment that she gave the cop a "ration of shit" first.
Tasered teen: 'It felt like electricity running through my veins'
KOMOnews.com
Tuesday, February 10th, 2015 Knowing they’d done nothing wrong, Monique attempted to explain to the officer that they cut through the parking lot all the time on their way home. However, this tyrant was having nothing of it.
#126. To: sneakypete (#71)
(Edited)
There is no lie you won't tell and no truth you won't stretch to the limits in order to provide excuses for cowardly thugs with badges.
I provide no excuses for anyone. You are resorting to throwing around rhetoric without any bases. Since you have chosen to have a value premise, then you need to show me where “there is a lie I have told and truth I have stretched.”
#127. To: Gatlin (#104)
The mall owners, the owners of the private property mall parking lot, were never going to call tow trucks to tow off the kids bicycles.
#128. To: nolu chan (#106)
This shopping center parking lot belonged to the mall owner and was private property.
#129. To: Gatlin (#107)
The police officer was working the parking lot as a hired security officer. The mall management has direct contact with its security officers. He knew what was happening because the mall management told him and instructed him what to do.
#130. To: nolu chan (#108)
Mall security requested the action. They did not have to call themselves.
#131. To: nolu chan (#109)
Good to know you think police departments work for mall owners.
#132. To: nolu chan (#110)
You really are the perfect little Nazi,aren't you?
#133. To: nolu chan (#112)
Still photo: Hand not on neck
#134. To: Gatlin (#113)
How long have you had the problem of carrying on a discussion with educated people?
#135. To: nolu chan (#115)
Before the officer could write anything down, Tillman admits she tried to ride away. That's when he grabbed her.
#136. To: Pinguinite (#122)
Is there any audio recording of the discussion that took place before she tried to leave?
#137. To: nolu chan, Stinky Peter Puffer (#111)
The Complaint does not appear to raise any constitutional challenge or to assert any challenge to the arrest regarding probable cause.
#138. To: sneakypete (#127)
The mall owners, the owners of the private property mall parking lot, were never going to call tow trucks to tow off the kids bicycles.
#139. To: sneakypete (#129)
The police officer was working the parking lot as a hired security officer. The mall management has direct contact with its security officers. He knew what was happening because the mall management told him and instructed him what to do.
#140. To: sneakypete (#134)
How long have you had the problem of carrying on a discussion with educated people?
#141. To: sneakypete (#135)
Before the officer could write anything down, Tillman admits she tried to ride away. That's when he grabbed her.
#142. To: sneakypete, nolu chan (#132)
(Edited)
BTW,your idols,the Nazi's,were also following the law. Bet that gives you the warm and fuzzies wood,doesn't it? After all,weren't the owners of Germany,the Nazi's using their authori-tay to force the Jews off their private property?
#143. To: Deckard (#0)
#144. To: misterwhite (#143)
#145. To: Gatlin (#144)
"Uh, Deckard hasn’t been on thread since just after he started the thread."
#146. To: misterwhite (#145)
He's like the MSM --
#147. To: Gatlin (#146)
He's like the MSM --
#148. To: nativist nationalist (#147)
#149. To: Gatlin (#138)
You can't loose an online debate gracefully and admit that you are wrong,
#150. To: Gatlin (#139)
Communication is important to security officers and law enforcement officers .
#151. To: Gatlin (#140)
But then, whoever said that you are normal …
#152. To: Gatlin (#141)
She was fleeing the scene and the officer had the right to detain her.
#153. To: Gatlin (#142)
You simply can't stay on topic.
#154. To: sneakypete (#153)
The turning of America into a police state IS the topic
#155. To: buckeroo (#154)
Actually, America has already turned into a police state ....
#156. To: sneakypete (#128)
I know you specialize in being an anal even for someone that loves to pick nits,but show me ONE example of a open mall with "No trespassing" signs designed to keep the public out without written or oral permission.
#157. To: sneakypete, Gatlin (#129)
How did mall management know. Are they psycic?
#158. To: sneakypete (#130)
BullBush! Are you seriously claiming mall management,who are sitting in their offices inside the mall building,were aware of and notified that asshole cop of two kids riding bicycles across the parking lot in time for them to radio the asshole cop and for said asshole cop to stop the kids before they could cross the parking lot while riding bicycles?
The police report described the kids cutting off cars earlier, swearing and yelling at anyone who honked at them, and that the mall wanted them stopped and given a trespassing notice.
#159. To: sneakypete (#131)
No one but an asshole defends cops that taze teenage girls.
#160. To: sneakypete (#132)
BTW,your idols,the Nazi's,were also following the law.
#161. To: sneakypete (#133)
Are you serious? ONE still photo of the cop with his hand on her chest proves he never had his hand on her neck,DESPITE the video clearly showing his hand was on her throat before it went to her chest?
#162. To: sneakypete, Gatlin (#134)
I don't have any problem at all discussing issues with educated people.
#163. To: sneakypete (#135)
Before the officer could write anything down, Tillman admits she tried to ride away. That's when he grabbed her.
#164. To: sneakypete, Gatlin (#149)
How can I be the one that is wrong,when it is you and your posse that are defending a full-grown cop (I won't use the word "man")throwing a unarmed skinny 15 year old girl to the pavement and then tazing her?
#165. To: sneakypete, Gatlin (#150)
How long does it take to put down the donut,see some VERY dangerous-looking invaders riding across the parking lot,pick up the radio,explain to the cop what he sees wrong and what they want to do about it,compared to how long it takes for a couple of teens to bicycle across a parking lot?
The police report described the kids cutting off cars earlier, swearing and yelling at anyone who honked at them, and that the mall wanted them stopped and given a trespassing notice.
#166. To: nolu chan (#164)
#167. To: sneakypete, Gatlin (#151)
I am proud to say that compared to apparatchiks like you,I am far from normal.
#168. To: sneakypete, Gatlin (#152)
"fleeing the scene"? The scene of WHAT?
#169. To: sneakypete, Gatlin (#153)
The turning of America into a police state IS the topic,bubba.
#170. To: GrandIsland (#166)
Stinky Peter Puff is sympathetic towards fags, criminal activity and drug addicts... just like the others that post and defend each other. Who else defends criminals, drug use and fags? The Dimrats.
#171. To: nolu chan, sneakypete, y'all (#170)
Stinky Peter is just another of those who knows nothing of the law, but loves to go on and on about his expertise.
#172. To: nolu chan (#170)
Stinky Peter is just another of those who knows nothing of the law, but loves to go on and on about his expertise. When he is proven absolutely wrong, he then bring out his ultmate argument that the other party is a nazi, an asshole, a statist, etc. etc.
#173. To: tpaine (#171)
#174. To: tpaine, GrandIsland (#171)
Nolu Chan is just another of those who claims vast knowledge of how our law MUST be applied (disregarding Constitutional restraints) and loves to go on and on about his erroneous expertise.
4.7. Defendant Williams approached Plaintiff after she stopped in response to his commands and the activation of the cruiser's emergency lights.
Tasered teen: 'It felt like electricity running through my veins'
KOMOnews.com
Tuesday, February 10th, 2015 Knowing they’d done nothing wrong, Monique attempted to explain to the officer that they cut through the parking lot all the time on their way home. However, this tyrant was having nothing of it.
#175. To: GrandIsland, Y'ALL (#173)
Why is it that you pro drug addict posters --
--- feel the need to fight each other's battles? Is it because you are all too much of a pussy to do it yourself?
When we pick on the faggot lover Pete or the career criminal lover Deckard, does it make you sad? You need a tissue?
#176. To: nolu chan (#174)
As to te law, especially the Constitution, you are fucking idiot, idiocy which you repeatedly display. Not only do you have no fucking idea what you are talking about, you are unwilling or unable to learn.
#177. To: nolu chan (#174)
(Edited)
4.8. Plaintiff asked Defendant Williams why he had stopped her and her brother.
#178. To: nolu chan (#174)
Stinky Peter is just another of those who knows nothing of the law, but loves to go on and on about his expertise. When he is proven absolutely wrong, he then bring out his ultmate argument that the other party is a nazi, an asshole, a statist, etc. etc.
As to te law, especially the Constitution, you are fucking idiot, idiocy which you repeatedly display. Not only do you have no fucking idea what you are talking about, you are unwilling or unable to learn.
#179. To: tpaine (#175)
I'm against unconstitutional 'wars' on drugs/guns/etc. -- Drug addicts kill themselves young, 'solving' the problem
#180. To: Gatlin, Y'ALL (#176)
His (tpaine) temerity is but one of his basic character flaws and “dark” personality defects.
His resolute adherence to his own opinions and ideas is --
--- the kind of behavior usually seen in spoilt children unwilling and unable to learn.
#181. To: GrandIsland (#173)
(Edited)
Why is it that you pro drug addict posters feel the need to fight each other's battles? Is it because you are all too much of a pussy to do it yourself?
#182. To: tpaine (#180)
(Edited)
I need more Kleenex..
#183. To: GrandIsland (#179)
Not before they victimize the more valuable people of society by running up a 75 page criminal history.
I'm huge fan of natural selection...
but you libtards interfer with it because of your bleeding hearts. Like AIDS treatment, useless drug courts and reduced sentencing. So crime and AIDS spread for many years before they "kill themselves young"'
#184. To: tpaine, GrandIsland (#175)
-- Drug addicts kill themselves young, 'solving' the problem.
#185. To: Gatlin, Y'ALL (#181)
He (tpaine) has an overwhelming and instinctual response need to be right, to be the victor. He likes to argue. If no one is arguing with him, he then seeks out arguments between other to join in.
There is an old proverb that states, “If you’re arguing with someone for more than five minutes, chances are it’s not about them or their actions. It’s about you.”
That expresses effectively some commonplace truth or useful thought far above his comprehension level.
#186. To: tpaine, GrandIsland (#183)
That's where we need you cops.. As soon as an addict commits a crime, bust him.
#187. To: tpaine (#185)
#188. To: Gatlin (#184)
One may wish that were only resultant of drug addiction. --- However, drugs (and alcohol) are the resulting cause in an estimated 80% of offenses such as domestic violence, driving while intoxicated, property offenses, public-order offenses, robbery, rape and murder. --- Criminality and substance abuse have long been linked.
#189. To: Gatlin (#187)
(Edited)
That's great. -- Then you bleeding heart liberals would be against a "War on Addicts on Drugs." --- Whew .. Your "discussions" are always "arguments" ... arguments with invalid assumptions.
#190. To: tpaine (#188)
You must realize that you're repeating the mantra that lead to the prohibitory wars on booze and drugs, -- the direct cause of our present mess?
#191. To: tpaine (#189)
Name the invalid assumptions, and we can discuss them.
#192. To: Gatlin, Y'ALL (#191)
#193. To: GrandIsland (#177)
The only thing scumbags excell at is acting more ignorant than they really are.... what did I do wrong?
#194. To: tpaine (#171)
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