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The Establishments war on Donald Trump
See other The Establishments war on Donald Trump Articles

Title: Candidates with the muscle could alter GOP convention rules
Source: Associated Press
URL Source: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie ... AULT&CTIME=2016-04-11-13-00-02
Published: Apr 11, 2016
Author: Alan Fram
Post Date: 2016-04-11 13:24:03 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 3207
Comments: 32

With the Republican nominating convention less than 100 days away, the GOP's presidential candidate isn't the only thing still up for grabs. Also in play: The rules by which the nominee will be chosen.

Yet there's one certainty about the party's July gathering in Cleveland: A candidate, an alliance of candidates or party leaders backed by enough delegates will be able to change the procedures any way they want.

Front-runner Donald Trump has 743 of the 1,237 delegates needed to leave the GOP convention as nominee. His closest competitor, Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, is fewer than 200 delegates behind. Yet many top Republicans view both as certain losers who could cost them congressional seats.

A look at the rules governing the convention and how they could be altered to impact the nomination:

----

AS IT STANDS

The GOP's 42 rules cover lots of terrain. They describe how delegates are divided among the 56 states and territories, who gets into the convention hall, who can be nominated, how votes are cast and how disputes are resolved.

These bylaws are temporary. This year's convention will be governed by whichever rules the delegates approve by majority vote when the four-day gathering begins July 18.

The Republican National Committee is already working on rules to present to the convention. But it's the convention delegates - initially a 112-member rules committee, two from each state and territory, then all 2,472 - who'll have final say.

Usually, each convention renews the rules with minor changes and little fanfare. They generally reflect the interests of the presumptive presidential nominee.

---

CLEVELAND, WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM

This year, there may not be a presumptive nominee as the convention begins.

It's possible that this will be the GOP's first competitive convention since 1976, with no candidate controlling a majority of delegates. Candidates' campaigns would compete for support for rules advantageous to them, with behind-the-scenes bargaining rampant.

Trump and Cruz could have enough delegates combined to back rules making it virtually impossible for a third rival to emerge. On the other hand, Republicans looking to block the two leaders could seek support for rules making it easier for a savior like House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., who has voiced disinterest, to gallop in and become the nominee.

"The golden rule of conventions is he who has the votes makes the rules," said GOP operative John Yob, author of a book entitled, "Chaos: The Outsider's Guide to a Contested Republican National Convention, 2016."

---

HIDDEN HAZARD

While most delegates must initially vote for the nominee they're elected to represent, they don't have to back that contender's preferred rules package. The candidates personally select only about a quarter of the delegates, leaving many who might secretly prefer a different contender. Campaigns are aggressively recruiting supporters to become delegates.

"Without knowing who the delegates are and who they're sympathetic to," said Josh Putnam, a University of Georgia lecturer and delegate process expert, "trying to assess what the convention is likely to do is next to impossible."

---

NIGHTMARE SCENARIO

The nation's prime-time television viewers could end up watching bitter battles on the convention floor over contested delegates, rules and the party platform before they even get to nominations. Or they could view bored delegates killing time as deals are cut backstage, instead of speeches and choreographed displays of unity aimed at revving up voters. Endless roll calls, another possibility, are TV ratings killers.

"The single worst thing that can happen for Republicans is they reach Thursday and don't have a nominee," said Randy Evans, a Republican National Committee member and convention delegate from Georgia.

That might mean expired hotel reservations, delegates leaving and the convention having to halt and reconvene later. That would be a damaging, cumbersome and time-consuming process.

----

TO BE NOMINATED

Currently, candidates are nominated by submitting petitions showing support by most delegates from eight states and territories.

That was changed for the 2012 convention from a lower bar: A plurality of signatures - more than any competitor - of five states' delegates. Backers of the 2012 presumptive nominee, Mitt Romney, forced that change to prevent time-consuming speeches by supporters of a vanquished contender, then Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas.

That rule could be weakened to allow more competition.

For now, Trump and Cruz appear likely to be the only candidates capable of rounding up majority support from eight states. That's not helpful for Ohio Gov. John Kasich, who is still campaigning, or for a fresh contender like Ryan to arise.

If no one gets a first ballot majority, things could quickly sour for Trump. While various state laws and rules "bind" around 9 in 10 delegates to vote for their candidate in the first round, about 7 in 10 are allowed to support whoever they want on the second ballot, with even more freed up later.

---

OTHER POTENTIAL CHANGES

There could be efforts to:

-Let former contenders like Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., assign their delegates to a remaining candidate, a practice that now varies by state.

-Allow delegates bound to specified candidates to sign nominating petitions for others.

-Permit fresh presidential nominations if no one wins on the first ballot. Currently, voting continues until a winner emerges.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 20.

#2. To: cranky, nolu chan, TooConservative, tpaine (#0)

There could be efforts to:

-Let former contenders like Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., assign their delegates to a remaining candidate, a practice that now varies by state.

Interesting. So some states' Rubio delegates can vote for someone else on the first ballot?

ConservingFreedom  posted on  2016-04-11   13:59:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: ConservingFreedom, cranky, TooConservative, tpaine (#2)

Interesting. So some states' Rubio delegates can vote for someone else on the first ballot?

As it stands now, Rubio's and Kasich's name could not be placed in nomination, nor any of the other miscellaneous candidates who picked off a few delegates.

Rule 40b is called the Ron Paul Rule as it was made by Romney supporters to prevent Ron Paul from being eligible to receive any votes.

So, who will have the muscle on the Rules Committee to control what changes are proposed to the body as a whole? Recall that Kasich and Trump just teamed up to shut Cruz out in a state from any delegate on the rules committee and Cruz cried that he was double-crossed by the Kasich campaign.

nolu chan  posted on  2016-04-11   14:55:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: nolu chan, , ConservingFreedom, cranky, TooConservative (#6)

ConservingFreedom --- Interesting. So some states' Rubio delegates can vote for someone else on the first ballot?

As it stands now, Rubio's and Kasich's name could not be placed in nomination, nor any of the other miscellaneous candidates who picked off a few delegates. - Nolu

Operative words, 'stands now'.

We must not forget that the rules can be changed BEFORE the first ballot, -- and probably will be...

tpaine  posted on  2016-04-11   16:52:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: tpaine (#12) (Edited)

We must not forget that the rules can be changed BEFORE the first ballot, -- and probably will be...

The rules must be confirmed by a majority of delegates, just as the nominee must be. That pesky 1237 number.

While it's possible, it seems unlikely that anyone who has enough delegates (1237) to change the rules actually needs to do so to win the nomination (also with 1237 delegates).

Conceivably, Trump (or Cruz) could fool enough Rubio or Kasich delegates into voting for his desired rule change and then bone them on the deal once the rule was in place.

But I consider that very unlikely. These are party people, not normal voters. They get all misty-eyed about their role as the guardians of the party of Lincoln blah-blah-blah...

They also are very unlikely to enact any rules that lead to a possible thoroughly deadlocked convention. For one thing, they all know they only have hotel rooms for 3 days.

BTW, after a couple of votes, the delegates can make a motion to invoke the rules committee again and demand some new rules. So the rules can change in the middle of the convention, especially if they get deadlocked.

Tooconservative  posted on  2016-04-11   17:21:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: TooConservative (#13)

We must not forget that the rules can be changed BEFORE the first ballot, -- and probably will be...

The rules must be confirmed by a majority tof delegates, just as the nominee must be. That pesky 1237 number. --- While it's possible, it seems unlikely that anyone who has enough delegates (1237) to change the rules actually needs to do so to win the nomination (also with 1237 delegates).

How about delegates that are dissatisfied with being forced to vote for a loosing candidate, according to arcane 'rules'?

Seems likely they might go for a rule change, before the first ballot.

tpaine  posted on  2016-04-11   17:32:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: tpaine (#14) (Edited)

Seems likely they might go for a rule change, before the first ballot.

Hmmm...not sure that ever happens.

I can't recall reading about it.

The rules committee makes few real changes. If they do, normally these are well-known in advance so it doesn't get sprung on the convention as a surprise.

So normally the rules committee makes very very few changes (like the one in 2012 to go from a 5-state-majority-of-delegates rule to an 8-state-majority-of-delegates rule so as to keep Ron Paul off the convention ballots and deny him a precious primetime speaking slot). But that was the Romney delegates and they did have well over the 1237 delegates needed for a rule change and for the nomination, no matter what. Most rule changes just before the convention are like that one. After the 17-candidate field we had this year, they might make a change but it would have to also address future conventions that might face 20 candidates (say 20 tycoons running for prez who fought it out all the way to the convention and none had 8 states or 5 states or whatever).

You should expect few rule changes this year and that the convention will accept the proposed rules just like always. I don't know if any convention ever rejected the initial rules from the rules committee. Not that I know of.

No set of rules is perfect or permanent. But a few rules, like the 1237 majority rule, never change. They are de facto permanent rules and almost impossible to change.

The convention delegates would normally go through a number of ballots before enough of them decided they were hopelessly deadlocked and needed to consider another candidate and so they would then make motions to invoke the rules committee to change the convention rules, strike down the 8-state or 5-state requirement and allow the nomination on the floor of anyone they wanted to nominate. Like Paul Ryan or Mitt Romney. Or John Boehner is available, I think. Michael Bloomberg would probably donate $2 billion to the RNC to get his name in there.     : )

But the delegates also know of past conventions going through extensive ballots. In the nineteenth century, they sometimes deadlocked going through 60 or more ballots and then selecting some complete nobody that no one ever heard of before because the major contenders were hated by other factions so much. Sometimes popes have been selected the same way, you know.

Tooconservative  posted on  2016-04-11   17:59:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: TooConservative (#15)

While it's possible, it seems unlikely that anyone who has enough delegates (1237) to change the rules actually needs to do so to win the nomination (also with 1237 delegates).

How about delegates that are dissatisfied with being forced to vote for a loosing candidate, according to arcane 'rules'?

Seems likely they might go for a rule change, before the first ballot.

No set of rules is perfect or permanent. But a few rules, like the 1237 majority rule, never change. They are de facto permanent rules and almost impossible to change.

I'm theorizing they would change the rules about being forced to vote for a failed candidate on the first ballot.

I don't see any reason that this isn't possible.. Do you?

tpaine  posted on  2016-04-11   18:25:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: tpaine (#17)

How about delegates that are dissatisfied with being forced to vote for a loosing candidate, according to arcane 'rules'?

Seems likely they might go for a rule change, before the first ballot.

I'm just trying to picture a scenario where that happens and they can get 1237 delegates to go along with it.

By default, they'll simply accept the initial rules committee recommendations as submitted to the convention. They will only change them later if they become deadlocked.

Tooconservative  posted on  2016-04-11   19:07:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: TooConservative (#18)

How about delegates that are dissatisfied with being forced to vote for a loosing candidate, according to arcane 'rules'?

Seems likely they might go for a rule change, before the first ballot.

I'm theorizing they would change the rules about being forced to vote for a failed candidate on the first ballot.

I don't see any reason that this isn't possible.. Do you?

I'm just trying to picture a scenario where that happens and they can get 1237 delegates to go along with it.

The delegates to the rules committee could do it before the convention, and it would be accepted by a convention majority.

tpaine  posted on  2016-04-11   19:20:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: tpaine (#19)

Seems likely they might go for a rule change, before the first ballot.

Okay. Whatever you say.

I just don't see it happening. This is hardly the first convention where that's happened. In fact, it happens every four years when some delegates arrive at the convention having been selected as delegates for a candidate(s) that have dropped out.

It's not some crisis situation they've never encountered before.

Tooconservative  posted on  2016-04-11   19:22:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 20.

#21. To: TooConservative (#20)

Seems likely they might go for a rule change, before the first ballot.

I'm theorizing they would change the rules about being forced to vote for a failed candidate on the first ballot.

I don't see any reason that this isn't possible.. Do you?

Okay. Whatever you say. -- I just don't see it happening. This is hardly the first convention where that's happened.

Yep, First since bull moose Teddy. But as you say, whatever.. Glad you agree.

tpaine  posted on  2016-04-11 19:57:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 20.

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