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Title: Trump: If abortion is banned, there has to be some form of punishment for women who do it
Source: HotAir
URL Source: http://hotair.com/archives/2016/03/ ... unishment-for-women-who-do-it/
Published: Mar 30, 2016
Author: Allahpundit
Post Date: 2016-03-30 17:16:58 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 59772
Comments: 274

Charles Cooke calls this an ideological Turing test, i.e. a question whose answer reveals how plausible it is that Trump really is who he claims to be. The standard answer from nearly all serious pro-lifers is that it’s the abortionist, not his patient, who should be sanctioned if and when abortion is banned. The March of Life explains why:
“Mr. Trump’s comment today is completely out of touch with the pro-life movement and even more with women who have chosen such a sad thing as abortion,” said Jeanne Mancini, President of the March for Life Education and Defense Fund. “Being pro-life means wanting what is best for the mother and the baby. Women who choose abortion often do so in desperation and then deeply regret such a decision. No pro-lifer would ever want to punish a woman who has chosen abortion. This is against the very nature of what we are about. We invite a woman who has gone down this route to consider paths to healing, not punishment.”

Ted Cruz, when he’s inevitably asked about this now, will give some variation of that same response. Trump, whom his conservative critics suspect of being an opportunist on abortion rather than committed to the cause, went a different route. You can almost see the wheels turning in his head here: He knows, as a political matter, that he can’t let Cruz get to his right on abortion. Republicans will let him slide on a lot — a lot — but if he gives them reason to think he’s BSing them on an issue at the very core of social conservatism, it could give Cruz the break he needs to take off. And so, when he gets the question from Matthews about what to do with women who insist on having abortions in a hypothetical future where the practice is banned, he goes with his gut — and his gut is “stay to the right.” So … sure, let’s punish women for abortion. This is the message the party’s carrying into the general election against the first woman major-party nominee, huh? By a guy who’s already having major problems polling among women, no less.

It’s easy to understand how an amateur would stumble into this answer, writes Matt Lewis, but why would you want to nominate an amateur?
In truth, like the notion that there should be exceptions for rape and incest, the notion that only the abortion doctor (not the woman having the abortion) should face penalties, is inconsistent with the notion that “abortion is murder.”

Yet these political compromises are necessary in order to cobble together a palatable and defensible (if admittedly inconsistent) public policy position that might someday actually be able to win the argument in mainstream America.

Part of the goal is to remove the ability for pro-choicers to demagogue the issue by scaring vulnerable women. Now, thanks to Trump, that’s back on the table.

Trump’s already trying to walk it back even though the townhall with Matthews from which this was clipped hasn’t aired yet:
#Trump campaign issues brief statement on #abortion: pic.twitter.com/jJFhzmHP5W

— Sarah McCammon NPR (@sarahmccammon) March 30, 2016

Hillary’s already attacking him over it. So is Team Cruz, as you’ll see in the second clip below. Trump can run from it but it’s on tape and every down-ballot Republican will wear it now if he’s the nominee. And the best part, as one Twitter pal said, is that Trump will eventually (“eventually” as in “probably within the next few hours”) deny that he ever said it to begin with. Still think this is all part of a master strategy or could it be that he really is winging it?

Cruz campaign: Cruz focuses on punishing those who perform abortions, not women who get them https://t.co/GRrUbWpzGE https://t.co/7am5Tcd7AG

— The Lead CNN (@TheLeadCNN) March 30, 2016


Poster Comment:

The next Trump scandal.

This will keep Vannity and Coulter and the other Mini-Me's busy Trumpsplaining it away for the next few days.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 108.

#2. To: TooConservative (#0)

Trump: If abortion is banned, there has to be some form of punishment for women who do it

Trump is absolutely correct. If, and the word is IF, an act is made a serious disregard or affront to the law, the act must be punished or there is no law. That's a secondary consequence that must by considered when passing a law.

rlk  posted on  2016-03-30   17:47:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: rlk (#2)

Indeed.

redleghunter  posted on  2016-03-30   18:02:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: redleghunter (#6)

Indeed.

It is committing the abortion that is punishable.

The abortionist is the criminal, not the woman who is a victim of abortion (along with her murdered unborn child).

This has been the dogma of the pro-lifers for decades, something only an ignoramus panderer like Trump would not know. That is because he is -- as he always was -- an advocate for all abortions, including partial-birth abortion, having praised his own sister for the NJ abortion decision she issued as a federal judge.

Tooconservative  posted on  2016-03-30   18:19:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: TooConservative, rlk (#9)

The abortionist is the criminal, not the woman who is a victim of abortion (along with her murdered unborn child).

I understand the pro life position politically. However rlk is correct legally and logically.

If I paid you to off someone you would be clearly the murderer and I would be guilty of conspiracy to murder or complicit.

A woman seeks out an abortionist to kill her child. That is the first law violated if Roe overturned. The second law broken by the woman would be obtaining an illegal medical procedure.

Now there are many cases where a battered woman hired another to kill the battering husband. Some of those women are not convicted due to mental and physical trauma.

However logically Trump is accurate. If a woman seeks an illegal abortion then she is involved in premeditated murder.

redleghunter  posted on  2016-03-30   22:29:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: redleghunter (#88)

However logically Trump is accurate. If a woman seeks an illegal abortion then she is involved in premeditated murder.

Then why did he flipflop and decide the woman should not be punished in only a few hours?

So did Trump have it right to begin with and now he's punking out to let these millions of women off the hook or is he correct now about the abortionist is the criminal?

Tooconservative  posted on  2016-03-31   2:07:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: TooConservative (#97)

You are asking me to get inside his head. Not gonna do that.

redleghunter  posted on  2016-03-31   2:48:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: redleghunter (#98)

Your reticence surprises me a little. We see a few here who were initially demanding the woman be punished as severely or more severely than the abortionist. Then Trump flipflops and they're thrown into disarray with only two still adhering to Trump's initial punish-the-woman position.

I'm not sure Trump realizes he has crossed the pro-lifers in a way that deeply offends them. Over the years, I've noticed that offending pro-lifers or pro-gunners in a campaign is almost invariably fatal to a candidate. Giuliani in 2008 was a perfect example of this but far from the only one.

Tooconservative  posted on  2016-03-31   7:01:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: TooConservative (#100)

I'm not sure Trump realizes he has crossed the pro-lifers in a way that deeply offends them.

You don't speak for pro life people. You're not.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-03-31   7:10:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: A K A Stone (#101)

You don't speak for pro life people.

I don't claim to speak for them.

But I have noticed how they punish any deviation from their policy positions with many other candidates.

Crossing the pro-lifers is generally fatal to a candidate. Trump hadn't crossed them in this campaign until now.

Generally, the pro-lifers remain friendly and open to the idea of even rabidly former pro-abortion candidates like Trump or Giuliani. But one major deviation and they do turn on that new friend. And they have their own entire communications network outside the usual media, all female-dominated. You don't see it coming until it hits your candidate over the head like a 2x4.

We'll see if Trump did offend them deeply. It won't take long for the polls to show it.

Tooconservative  posted on  2016-03-31   8:07:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: TooConservative (#102)

"Crossing the pro-lifers is generally fatal to a candidate."

When did he cross them -- when he was for or against punishing women who murder their babies?

misterwhite  posted on  2016-03-31   8:40:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: misterwhite (#105)

When did he cross them -- when he was for or against punishing women who murder their babies?

This particular policy item was hotly debated over the years in the pro-life organizations. Overwhelmingly, they reject any punish-the-woman policy.

In the meantime, the Dims constantly accuse us of wanting to punish the woman even though we have denied it for decades. They still use it as part of their War On Women strategy.

Certainly, the Dims will use this against Trump if he is the nominee but they will also use it against all GOP candidates.

This is why you've never heard any credible GOP candidate ever suggest a punish-the-woman policy. And that is why I think the women who quietly dominate the pro-life movement nationally may react very negatively toward Trump. This argument is long over. Until Trump opened this can of worms by running his big blabbermouth yesterday. Trump's gift to the Lefties and their propaganda. Less remarked upon is Trump mentioning that any change in abortion law would inevitably result in the return of back-alley abortions, yet another pernicious myth that will certainly rile the pro-lifers.

The nicest thing you can say of Trump's remark is he was ignorant. That's not a very positive quality.

If you're looking for signs that Trump has truly riled the pro-lifers, I'd watch for any statements about Trump's remarks by Phyllis Schlafly of Eagle Forum, the various state and national Right To Life orgs and the newer Susan B. Anthony List activists (the younger generation of pro-life women).

Tooconservative  posted on  2016-03-31   9:10:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 108.

#112. To: TooConservative (#108)

"Overwhelmingly, they reject any punish-the-woman policy."

I didn't know that. I'd like to know what kind of convoluted thinking leads then to conclude that if a woman pays a doctor to murder her unborn child at her request, he should be sent to prison but she walks away scot-free.

Maybe that's how they keep there membership numbers up. Kind of, "We're pro-life ... but not really".

misterwhite  posted on  2016-03-31 09:29:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: TooConservative (#108)

"The nicest thing you can say of Trump's remark is he was ignorant. That's not a very positive quality."

I'd simply say he was caught off-guard by being asked a hypothetical about an issue everyone considers settled law. It didn't help that Matthews was looking for his gotcha moment, so he phrased the question around whether the woman should be punished.

I've been following politics a long time, and I've never heard this "punish the woman" approach before. Certainly if the abortion decision is turned over to the states, won't each state decide that, not the President?

Yes, Trump should have been prepared for that f**ked up hypothetical but, to his credit, he immediately corrected his position.

misterwhite  posted on  2016-03-31 09:44:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: TooConservative (#108)

"If you're looking for signs that Trump has truly riled the pro-lifers"

Why would they be riled? He retracted his statement.

misterwhite  posted on  2016-03-31 09:45:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 108.

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