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I'm here for the moneuy Status: Not Logged In; Sign In The Establishments war on Donald Trump See other The Establishments war on Donald Trump Articles Title: Anti-Trump “Conservatives” Release Statement After Meeting to Dump Trump – Want to Unite Republicans Source: gateway pundt URL Source: [None] Published: Mar 17, 2016 Author: HOFT Post Date: 2016-03-17 16:52:53 by calcon Keywords: None Views: 13189 Comments: 94 op anti-Trump Republicans will meet in Washington DC on Thursday on how to stop GOP front-runner Donald Trump from winning the nomination. The group was also planning a third party run if Trump wins. The meeting was organized by RedState founder Erick Erickson who has vowed to never vote for Trump – even if it means a Hillary Clinton presidency. dump trump crowd The anti-Trump group released a statement this afternoon. Here is the statement agreed to by the conservatives who met this morning to stop Trump: https://t.co/klsTcIiPOf — Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) March 17, 2016 Erick Erickson’s website released this statement today to stop Trump. The group called “for a unity ticket that unites the Republican Party.” …Except, of course, for the seven million Trump voters. They can go to hell. The cowards did not have enough courage to release the attendees at the meeting. This morning I participated in a meeting of grassroots conservative activists from around the country who are committed to opposing Donald Trump. We have agreed to release the statement below: We are a group of grassroots conservative activists from all over the country and from various backgrounds, including supporters of many of the other campaigns. We are committed to ensuring a real conservative candidate is elected. We believe that neither Hillary Clinton nor Donald Trump, a Hillary Clinton donor, is that person. We believe that the issue of Donald Trump is greater than an issue of party. It is an issue of morals and character that all Americans, not just those of us in the conservative movement, must confront. We call for a unity ticket that unites the Republican Party. If that unity ticket is unable to get 1,237 delegates prior to the convention, we recognize that it took Abraham Lincoln three ballots at the Republican convention in 1860 to become the party’s nominee and if it is good enough for Lincoln, that process should be good enough for all the candidates without threats of riots. We encourage all former Republican candidates not currently supporting Trump to unite against him and encourage all candidates to hold their delegates on the first ballot. Lastly, we intend to keep our options open as to other avenues to oppose Donald Trump. Our multiple decades of work in the conservative movement for free markets, limited government, national defense, religious liberty, life, and marriage are about ideas, not necessarily parties. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-53) not displayed.       .       .       . #54. To: A K A Stone (#52) That is just dumb. Cruz went into a meeting of Eastern Orthodox Arab Christians - people who have been brutalized all over the Middle East. Those people, from the front right there, know that radical Islam is terrible. They ALSO know that Israel is discriminatory against them, and that Israeli policies have brutalized and radicalized the Muslims in their neighborhood, making it much harder for Christians there, much as the American invasion of Iraq broke the civil peace of that country imposed by Saddam Hussein, and ended up unleashing Islamist terrorism on Christians. Middle Eastern Christians are not pro-Israel. They're not "destroy Israel" or "destroy America" jihadis either. They are opposed to aggressive wars and policies that result in the persecution of Christians far and wide, and they know a hell of a lot more about the conditions of Christians on the ground in the Middle East, including in Israel, than Ted Cruz ever will. Cruz came in and didn't give a damn. He insulted them to their face, told them that if they did not support the state of Israel they were part of the problem, not the solution, and he would have nothing to do with them. Cruz is an Israel firster, and really a loathsome shit when you get right down to it. But if he's on the ticket, conservatives who love him will vote for Trump/Cruz, and if that's what it takes to win, then fine. It's like Reagan/HW Bush. You ally with whom you need to in order to defeat the worse threat. You and I are both voting for Trump, for different reasons. Doesn't mean that you're signing up for my beliefs or I, yours. Vicomte13  posted on  2016-03-20   16:20:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #55. To: A K A Stone (#50) You wouldn't have liked George Washington. Or any of the founders. They would have been talking about morals and virtues. Bullshit. Christianity sure as hell doesn't own morals and virtues. Ever read the Old Testament? That is as opposed to the "New and Improved Testament"? You would have been telling them to not have a first amendment. Because you don't support the first amendment. I'm not the one on here screaming for some Americans to have less rights than other Americans because of religious conditioning. NO religion has ever been about freedom. Ever. The old Popes made Stalin look like Jimmy Carter in comparison. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-20   19:10:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #56. To: Vicomte13 (#53) Ummm, yes? You know CATHOLIC. HELLO, McFly - Virgin Birth, Mary, all that, it's sort of our signature flavor. You DO know that, don't you? Why do you think I commented on it? If you believe that crap,you will believe anything. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-20   19:11:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #57. To: rlk (#3) They are not conservatives. They are a collection of incompetents and parasites wanting to unite Republicans for continuation of more of the same. Everybody claims to be a uniter. That means "Don't think. Just follow me." Ding, ding, ding! I hear you. Truth Is Still Truth Even If You Don't Believe It. GarySpFC  posted on  2016-03-20   20:10:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #58. To: sneakypete (#31) (Edited) Cruz would do every bit as well as Trump, probably better. The fact that he is not a narcissistic sociopath gives him a "yuge" advantage over the gasbag. He's the king of the narcissistic sociopaths. The only people who can't, or refuse, to see it are people who are stupid or determined to avoid Trump's sense of reality and are desperate to believe Cruz will save them. Who will save them from Cruz, Hillary, or Sanders is a matter to be avoided. rlk  posted on  2016-03-20   20:15:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #59. To: SOSO (#9) BS. Cruz would do every bit as well a Trump, probably better. Ding, ding, ding! I don't think so. Truth Is Still Truth Even If You Don't Believe It. GarySpFC  posted on  2016-03-20   20:16:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #60. To: SOSO (#14) FYI there are millions who would vote for Cruz who will not vote for Trump. And Cruz has a much better chance of unifying what remains of the REP Party after the convention than has Trump. The dishtowel in my kitchen generates more excitement than Cruz. His passion is to sit on the throne by defeating Trump, not to fix the problems Trump is determined to fix. Truth Is Still Truth Even If You Don't Believe It. GarySpFC  posted on  2016-03-20   20:25:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #61. To: sneakypete (#56) Why do you think I commented on it? If you believe that crap,you will believe anything. To the contrary, BECAUSE I believe "that crap", a whole unbounded universe of other contrary crap is precluded. It makes the lines of my world bright and clear, puts limits on what I may do, what I MUST do, what I must NOT do, and gives me clear roadmap to the next 100,000 years or so of my life. So your commenting on what you conceive as a fatal weakness is really pointing to my greatest strength. Vicomte13  posted on  2016-03-20   20:37:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #62. To: rlk (#58) The only people who can't, or refuse, to see it are people who are stupid or determined to avoid Trump's sense of reality..... There's a keeper,Robert. You should get it tattooed on your chest or make a plaque and mount it on you wall. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-20   20:38:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #63. To: Vicomte13 (#61) gives me clear roadmap to the next 100,000 years or so of my life. Uh,huh. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-20   20:39:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #64. To: sneakypete (#33) No big loss. It is idiots like you that created this whole corrupt "party is power" thing. Vote for the CANDIDATE,not the party. The only thing parties stand for is staying in power. One word...Reagan. Truth Is Still Truth Even If You Don't Believe It. GarySpFC  posted on  2016-03-20   20:44:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #65. To: sneakypete (#36) Yeah,but you still believe in Virgin Birth. There are two virgin birth belief systems; one involves Jesus Christ and the other evolution. I believe in the first, not the lie. Truth Is Still Truth Even If You Don't Believe It. GarySpFC  posted on  2016-03-20   20:50:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #66. To: sneakypete (#55) NO religion has ever been about freedom. Ever. The old Popes made Stalin look like Jimmy Carter in comparison. Wrong, wrong, wrong! You're quoting one branch of Christianity, and not Christianity based on the Bible. Truth Is Still Truth Even If You Don't Believe It. GarySpFC  posted on  2016-03-20   21:06:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #67. To: GarySpFC (#66) Wrong, wrong, wrong! You're quoting one branch of Christianity, and not Christianity based on the Bible. Really? I could have sworn the Catholics were the first Christian cult. OG's,as it were. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-20   23:14:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #68. To: GarySpFC (#65) There are two virgin birth belief systems; one involves Jesus Christ and the other evolution. Since when has evolution claimed virgin birth? ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-20   23:15:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #69. To: sneakypete (#67) Really? I could have sworn the Catholics were the first Christian cult. We were and are, along with the Orthodox. "Cave-man Christians". But the Cave Men and the Proddys all believe in the Virgin Birth, the holiness of the Bible, the divinity of Christ, etc. Vicomte13  posted on  2016-03-20   23:37:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #70. To: sneakypete (#68) Since when has evolution claimed virgin birth? Well you have to understand that once there were no humans, and then there were, so we are expected to believe that a monkey sired a human. When two monkeys mate what they get is a monkey not a human. So the first human must have arisen some other way, thus a virgin birth. You see the impossibility that humans are the result of multiple genetic mutations is just too fantastic to contemplate. Monkeys breed consistently and what they get are more monkeys. If humans arose from monkeys, the monkeys should have died out, but they haven't paraclete  posted on  2016-03-21   2:53:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #71. To: paraclete (#70) Well you have to understand that once there were no humans, and then there were, so we are expected to believe that a monkey sired a human. When two monkeys mate what they get is a monkey not a human. So the first human must have arisen some other way, thus a virgin birth. Uh,huh. Were monkeys creaked in the image of God,also? Baboons? Dogs? After all they all give birth,so according to YOUR logic the first ones born must have been the result of virgin births,right? ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-21   5:23:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #72. To: sneakypete (#71) Getting back to genesis, The first were created by God. Ever thought how interesting it is the word genesis contains the word gene paraclete  posted on  2016-03-21   5:53:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #73. To: paraclete (#72) Getting back to genesis, The first were created by God That's your proof? Do you believe everything you read? ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-21   8:49:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #74. To: sneakypete (#73) That's your proof? Do you believe everything you read? No I don't believe the Book of Mormom, I don't believe the Origin of Species, I don't believe Mein Kempf. I don't believe the Quoran, I don't believe Awake but the Bible has stood the test. God has told us what he wants us to know, it isn't about where we came from but where we are going paraclete  posted on  2016-03-21   17:51:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #75. To: paraclete (#74) No I don't believe the Book of Mormom, I don't believe the Origin of Species, I don't believe Mein Kempf. I don't believe the Quoran, I don't believe Awake but the Bible has stood the test. God has told us what he wants us to know, it isn't about where we came from but where we are going And of course all those other people are going to go to hell,and you and those who share your beliefs are going to heaven,right? ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-21   17:55:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #76. To: sneakypete (#75) (Edited) And of course all those other people are going to go to hell, and you and those who share your beliefs are going to heaven,right? You forget the "you have a choice" clause, you want to criticise my choice because you have made a different one, thing is; if I'm wrong we both end up in the same place, if I'm right, we don't, and I have evidence that God exists, so I'll take his "word" for it over yours. Paul said it a long time ago and it was important enough to be written down. God has put up with this foolishness but no more he wants you to know the truth paraclete  posted on  2016-03-22   5:25:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #77. To: paraclete (#76) you want to criticise my choice No,I criticize your elitism and smugness as a way to point out your hypocrisy. EVERY member of every other religious cult everywhere on the planet are the ones who are convinced YOU are going to hell for YOUR beliefs,not me. I don't believe in heaven or hell,other than what we make for ourselves during our lives. Once you are dead,you are dead forever. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-22   8:23:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #78. To: sneakypete (#77) As I said, I don't need to defend my position, I know the truth therefore I am free of the opinions of others paraclete  posted on  2016-03-22   8:33:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #79. To: paraclete (#78) As I said, I don't need to defend my position, I know the truth therefore I am free of the opinions of others Ok. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-22   9:42:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #80. To: sneakypete (#67) Wrong, wrong, wrong! You're quoting one branch of Christianity, and not Christianity based on the Bible. Really? I could have sworn the Catholics were the first Christian cult. I said Bible base. Truth Is Still Truth Even If You Don't Believe It. GarySpFC  posted on  2016-03-25   19:08:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #81. To: sneakypete (#68) There are two virgin birth belief systems; one involves Jesus Christ and the other evolution . Since when has evolution claimed virgin birth? Both claim to produce an offspring from one sexual gender. Truth Is Still Truth Even If You Don't Believe It. GarySpFC  posted on  2016-03-25   19:18:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #82. To: sneakypete (#77) EVERY member of every other religious cult everywhere on the planet are the ones who are convinced YOU are going to hell for YOUR beliefs,not me. I don't believe in heaven or hell,other than what we make for ourselves during our lives. Once you are dead,you are dead forever. What evidence do you have for your belief? Truth Is Still Truth Even If You Don't Believe It. GarySpFC  posted on  2016-03-25   19:26:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #83. To: GarySpFC (#80) Really? I could have sworn the Catholics were the first Christian cult. I said Bible base. Not trying to be a wiseass,but there is a difference? Every Catholic I have ever talked to claims they are the one,true Christian religion,and the Catholics were the ones that decided what went into the Bible and what didn't. Am I wrong? ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-25   19:29:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #84. To: GarySpFC (#81) There are two virgin birth belief systems; one involves Jesus Christ and the other evolution . Since when has evolution claimed virgin birth? Both claim to produce an offspring from one sexual gender. I have believed in evolution for most of my life,and have never seen or heard that claim made. If you can,without too much trouble,please show me where you got that idea from. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-25   19:31:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #85. To: GarySpFC (#82) What evidence do you have for your belief? Rational thought. I don't believe in magic and I don't believe in mantras that state "It all exists so there MUST have been a God to create it",yet fail to address the question of "Ok,so where did God come from if EVERYTHING had to be created purposely?" ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-25   19:33:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #86. To: sneakypete (#85) Rational thought. chortle Roscoe  posted on  2016-03-25   20:27:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #87. To: sneakypete (#83) The Catholics are dead wrong. The Holy Spirit authored the Bible by directing men what to write. [21] For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 2:21 Truth Is Still Truth Even If You Don't Believe It. GarySpFC  posted on  2016-03-25   20:27:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #88. To: sneakypete (#85) Rational thought. I don't believe in magic and I don't believe in mantras that state "It all exists so there MUST have been a God to create it",yet fail to address Atheistic materialism is highly irrational, because it defecto posits matter over mind. Truth Is Still Truth Even If You Don't Believe It. GarySpFC  posted on  2016-03-25   20:34:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #89. To: GarySpFC (#88) Atheistic materialism is highly irrational, And organized religion isn't????? Seriously? BTW,WTH does Atheistic Materialism have to do with anything. It's just another belief system,and has more in common with organized religion than it does a open mind. Your religion,and all other religions are based on FAITH,NOT FACTS. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-25   22:17:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #90. To: sneakypete (#89) Rational thought. I don't believe in magic and I don't believe in mantras that state "It all exists so there MUST have been a God to create it",yet fail to address I was by now too experienced in literary criticism to regard the Gospels as myths. They had not the mythical taste. And yet the very matter which they set down in their artless, historical fashion — those narrow, unattractive jews, too blind to the mystical wealth of the Pagan world around them — was precisely the matter of great myths. If ever a myth had become a fact, had been incarnated, it would be just like this. And nothing else in all literature was just like this. Myths were like it in one way. Histories were like it in another, but nothing was simply alike. And no person was like the Person it depicted; as real, as recognizable, through all that depth of time… yet also so luminous, lit by a light from beyond the world, a god. But if a god — we are no longer polytheists — then not a god, but God. Here and here only in all time the myth must have become fact; the Word, flesh; God, Man. This is not "a religion," nor "a philosophy." It is the summing up and actuality of them all. C.S. Lewis Truth Is Still Truth Even If You Don't Believe It. GarySpFC  posted on  2016-03-26   9:43:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #91. To: GarySpFC (#90) Quoting C.S Lewis or anyone else is meaningless. The truth is YOU choose to believe your faith is based on facts,period. If you want to believe that and it makes you happy,I'm happy for you. Just don't start demanding that I or anyone else MUST share your faith. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them. sneakypete  posted on  2016-03-26   18:08:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #92. To: sneakypete (#85) R. C. Sproul, a scholar with degrees from the Free University of Amsterdam, Geneva College, and Grove City College, who lectures widely on apologetics, wrote: For something to come from nothing it must, in effect, create itself. Self-creation is a logical and rational impossibility. For something to create itself, it must be able to transcend Hamlet’s dilemma, “To be or not to be.” Hamlet’s question assumed sound science. He understood that something (himself) could not both be and not be at the same time and in the same relationship. For something to create itself, it must have the ability to be and not be at the same time and in the same relationship. For something to create itself, it must be before it is. This is impossible. It is impossible for solids, liquids, and gasses. It is impossible for atoms and subatomic particles. It is impossible for light and heat. It is impossible for God. Truth Is Still Truth Even If You Don't Believe It. GarySpFC  posted on  2016-03-28   15:54:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #93. To: sneakypete, all (#91) (Edited) Brotherse, In 1999 or 2000 I was asked by Linda Holloway, then Chairwoman, of the Kansas School Board to testify before the board during the Kansas Evolution controversy.  As I mentioned previously there were reporters from around the world attending, and I would put the number to be at least 1,000. I was the only one testifying against the Darwinists, and the odds were stacked against me 9 to 1.   Yesterday, I found the testimony I provided, and I thought you might like to see it for inclusion on my new website. You will find it below. I apologize for the loss of formatting. Grace and peace, Gary Butner, Th.D. Sent from my iPad Evolution, God and Atheism   I would like to say statements to the effect that one can believe in evolution and God's hand working in creation displays an ignorance of Darwin's belief system and what is being taught.   Firstly, if one believes God is using the evolutionary process in creation, then they would use the term "Divine selection," and not "natural selection" as favored by the evolutionists. Evolutionists are very clear that natural selection is an unsupervised, impersonal, and purposelessprocess.  In 1995, the official Position Statement of the American National Association of Biology Teachers (NABT) accurately states the general understanding of major science organizations and educators:   "The diversity of life on earth is the outcome of evolution: an unsupervised, impersonal, unpredictable, and natural process of temporal descent with genetic modification that is affected by natural selection, chance, historical contingencies and changing environments."   Or in the words of the famous evolutionist, George Gaylord Simpson, "Man is the result of a purposeless, and natural process that did not have him in mind."  I have to ask:      How do they know the process was impersonal?    How do they know the process was unsupervised?     How do they know the process is purposeless?    How do they know the process is mindless?   ​Their statements are problematic in that they are unscientific. It cannot be proven that evolutionary processes are "impersonal" or that humans were "not in mind." Science cannot demonstrate these assumptions either way--and that's the problem with their position. They become proponents of a religion of atheistic naturalism; I say religion because their conclusion is NOT science, it is faith. Clearly, their definition is diametrically opposed to any concept of a personal Creator being involved in either a creation or evolutionary process.   ​In 1997, theologians Alvin Plantinga and Huston Smith notified NABT that their official position statement was really an implied atheism and went beyond what the scientific evidence for the theory could show. NABT discussed the objection for all of five minutes and voted to continue their position statement.      Later, NABT removed "impersonal" and "unsupervised" from the language after the evolutionist spokesperson Eugenie Scott informed NABT the definition would give Phillip Johnson ammunition in his fight against their position. They still continue to teach evolution is an unsupervised, impersonal, purposeless, and mindless process. Any teacher denying that is either fired or transferred to teaching another subject.   Secondly, in his response to Asa Gray, Darwin specifically stated evolution excludes design. In the view of the great Princeton theologian Charles Hodge, however (as well as every mainstream Christian theologian before the Twentieth Century), excluding design is tantamount to excluding God. Design implies a Designer, God. When one excludes the Designer they have embraced atheism.   Darwin's response to Gray is at the end of his 1868 book, "The Variation of Plants and Animals Under Domestication." Darwin concluded his book with a lengthy refutation of Gray's position. Using the metaphor of a house built by an architect utilizing uncut fragments of stone, Darwin explained that "the fragments of stone, though indispensable to the architect, bear to the edifice built by him the same relation which the fluctuating variations of each organic being bear to the varied and admirable structures ultimately acquired by its modified descendants." The shape of each fragment "may be called accidental, but this is not strictly correct; for the shape of each depends on a long sequence of events, all obeying natural laws." Nevertheless, "in regard to the use to which the fragments may be put, their shape may be strictly said to be accidental." In Darwin's metaphor, of course, the architect is natural selection. Darwin continued:   "Can it be reasonably maintained that the Creator intentionally ordered, if we use the words in any ordinary sense, that certain fragments of rock should assume certain shapes so that the builder might erect his edifice?  If the various laws which have determined the shape of each fragment were not predeter-mined for the builder's sake, can it with any greater probability be maintained that He specially ordained for the sake of the breeder each of the innumerable variations in our domestic animals and plants; - many of these variations being of no service to man, and not beneficial, far more often injurious, to the creatures themselves?   Did He ordain that the crop and tail-feathers of the pigeon should vary in order that the fancier might make his grotesque pouter and fantail breeds?   Did He cause the frame and mental qualities of the dog to vary in order that a breed might be formed of indomitable ferocity, with jaws fitted to pin down the bull for man's brutal sport?  But if we give up the principle in one case - if we do not admit that the variations of the primeval dog were intentionally guided in order that the greyhound, for instance, that perfect image of symmetry and vigor, might be formed - no shadow of reason can be assigned for the belief that variations, alike in nature and the result of the same general laws, which have been the groundwork through natural selection of the formation of the most perfectly adapted animals in the world, man included, were intentionally and specially guided."   Americans fought and died for religious liberty, and the right to educate their children in the religion of their choice. Please answer why evolutionists arrogantly DEMAND the right to indoctrinate OUR children into THEIR religion?   Gary Butner Kansas   Gary Butner, Th.D. Truth Is Still Truth Even If You Don't Believe It. GarySpFC  posted on  2016-03-29   0:50:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #94. To: GarySpFC, sneakypete (#93) Fred Mertz  posted on  2016-03-29   16:10:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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