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Title: The Catholic Church Is A Big Hoax!
Source:
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URL Source: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Fals ... holic_church_is_a_big_hoax.htm
Published: Feb 18, 2016
Author: David J. Stewart
Post Date: 2016-02-18 09:48:10 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 16399
Comments: 57
"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." —Isaiah 42:8 There is NO bigger HOAX on planet earth than the Roman Catholic Church! Oh how I wish I could get people to wake up to the truth. I don't even call the Roman Catholic organization a "church"...it is a RELIGION of manmade traditions and lies of the devil. It certainly is NOT a Biblical New Testament church. Let me clarify right from the very start that I do NOT hate anyone. I love the Pope and all Catholics just as I do all people (I really do). I love them with God's love. I love them enough to risk being unpopular by telling them the truth of God's Word. Though I may not like someone, I am still commanded in the Bible to love them. I have no intentions to be unkind to anyone, I simply want to preach the TRUTH of God's Word. Undoubtedly, many people will be offended because the truth always offends those who are living in sin and darkness. Just as Jesus Christ my Saviour, I am more willing to be divided over truth than to be united by error. I cannot compromise because the Bible does not compromise. God said what He meant and meant what He said. Many of the foundational doctrines of Roman Catholicism are NOT found anywhere in the Bible. It is evil to reject the plain teachings of Scripture in exchange for the traditions of men. God Will Not Share His Glory God will NOT share His glory with another (Isaiah 42:8). In Exodus 20:3-5 we read that God is a jealous God, so jealous that we are commanded NOT to even BOW to a statue or image. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God" -Exodus 20:3 God is more jealous than any husband or wife could ever be. It is a dangerous thing to commit idolatry. It is a sin to bow to any saint. Roman Catholicism twists the Bible, actually condoning the idolatrous glorifying of dead people (saints). It is a sin to pray to anyone or anything in an attempt to influence God. There is ONLY One Mediator between God and men-- The Lord Jesus Christ... "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" -1st Timothy 2:5 The ONLY Way to God the Father is through God the Son. John 14:6 declares... "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." To pray or even bow to any statue, image or crucifix is wicked sin. Jesus NEVER even once asked anyone to create an image of Him dying on a cross. The Catholic Church is infested with idols, crucifixes and superstitions. It is wicked to pray or even BOW to "Mother Mary." Pope John Paul II is committing idolatry in the image to the left. Mary is NOT my mother, and she's NOT your mother either. Mary is NOT the "Queen of Heaven." Mary is NOT the mother of the church. Mary was just a godly woman chosen by God the Father to be the earthly mother of Jesus Christ, God incarnate. In heaven, Mary is no more special than any other godly woman who fears and loves God. It is wicked to teach that Mary was anything more than a godly woman. John the Baptist was called the greatest man born amongst men (Mathew 11:11), yet Jesus said that he that is LEAST in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John. The same is true with Mary or anyone else. If it were not for God's merciful grace, we would all be hopelessly bound for hell damnation (and that includes Mary). By the way, the teaching of Catholics that Mary was born without any "original sin" is absurd, she was born with a sinful nature just like any other human being. The Bible does NOT teach any nonsense about an "Immaculate Conception" or anything about "original sin." The word "original" is not even found in the Bible. To Hail Mary is to Hail Satan! Mary is NOT a co-redeemer with Jesus. Can The Catholics Ever Make Up Their Minds? The Catholic crowd likes to do the same thing as the Wiccan witches do...claim that all Christians are ignorant of history. How convenient that so many heathen groups can claim legitimacy and trustworthiness based upon ambiguous history. If anything, history reveals that the Catholic religion is composed today of a series of invented heresies from over the centuries. What will be the next invention? The Roman Church says it never changes; yet, it has done nothing else but invent new doctrines which are contrary to the Bible, and has practiced rites and ceremonies taken bodily from paganism. Some scholar has found that 75% of the rites and ceremonies of the Roman Church are of pagan origin. Note:-- Cardinal Newman, in his book, "The Development of the Christian Religion," admits that ... "Temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, holidays and season of devotions, processions, blessing of fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests and monks and nuns), images ... are all of pagan origin..." (Page 359). HERESIES are those doctrines and practices which are contrary to the Bible. They are also called "human traditions" or "doctrines of men". Both Peter and Paul predicted and warned that in the later times "false teachers" would rise within the Church and bring in "damnable heresies" and "doctrines of devils". (Read II Peter 2:1-3, and I Tim. 3:2-5). Jesus rebuked the Pharisees, for they transgressed the commandments of God by keeping their traditions. "in vain," He said, "they worship me by keeping for doctrines the commandments of men" (Matt. 15:3,9). The real heretics therefore, are the Roman Catholics and the true orthodox are the Evangelical Christians. BRETHREN! The Word of God commands us to get out of Babylon, saying: "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Rev. 18:4). All true Christians will remain faithful to the religion of Christ as taught in the Bible, and heed the warning of the Apostle Paul, who said: "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other Gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Gal. 1:8). Roman Catholicism openly admits that many of their doctrines did NOT originate from the Bible, but from the church itself. It is blasphemy to recognize the writings of the church fathers as inspired by God. For example, in 1834, the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX. The Bible states that all men, with the sole exception of Christ, are sinners. Mary herself had need of a Saviour (Romans 3:23; 5:12; Psalm 51:5; Luke 1:30,46,47). In 1439, the doctrine of Purgatory was proclaimed as a dogma of faith by Council of Florence. The Bible says that Christ instituted only two ordinances, Baptism and the Lord's Supper (Matthew 28:19-20; 26:26-28). Read more! The Catholic heresy of the "Assumption of Mary" isn't found in the Bible or even in their own magisterium. Roman Catholics Reject the Commandments of God Matthew 23:9 forbids calling any man "Father" in the sense of reverence... "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." -Matthew 23:9 Catholics disobey the Bible by calling the priest "Father." Only God is to be reverenced by such a title. The Pope is NOT the "vicar" of God, but is rather a false prophet of Satan. 1st Timothy 4:1-3 warns... "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth." Are Catholics blind? Or perhaps Catholics just don't read the Bible. 1st Timothy 4:1-3 clearly WARNS us about cults that forbid people to eat meat (every Friday for Catholics) or get married (Catholic celibacy laws that forbid priests from getting married). I recently listened to a Catholic priest on TV speaking to his parish. He told the people that the best way to know what's right on all matters of faith and morals is to just "listen to the Pope." What a contrast to the teachings of the Word of God. The Bible declares... "...let God be true, but every man a liar..." -Romans 3:4 Peter Was NOT The Rock Upon Which the Church is Built The Catholic religion teaches that Jesus chose the Apostle Peter as the "rock" upon which Christ would build the Church. Matthew 16:18 reads "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." A simple cross reference of Matthew 16:18 with 1st Peter 2:7 reveals the true context, "Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner." JESUS is the cornerstone upon which the Church is built. Even today, architects and builders realize that to build ANY structure, you MUST have a very accurate starting point upon which everything else can be built. Jesus is that Precious and Perfect cornerstone upon which everything in the Christian life is based. Surely, a flawed sinful man such as Peter could NOT have been the cornerstone of the church. In Matthew 16:23, just five verses after Jesus spoke of the "rock," he called Peter "Satan." There's no way Jesus was referring to Peter as the "rock" in Matthew 16:18. Jesus Christ is the ONLY Rock upon which the Church is built..."For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ" (1st Corinthians 3:11). Rosary From Hell The Catholics teach that the rosary should be performed every day. I'd like to have ANYONE show me that from the Bible. Where did God tell us to perform a rosary? The Rosary, or prayer beads, was introduced by Peter the Hermit, in the year 1090...copied from Hindus and Mohammedans. The counting of prayers is a pagan practice and is expressly condemned by Christ (Matthew 6:5-13). The rosary should NEVER be performed by anyone, it is sinful. Jesus condemned chants and recited prayers... "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." —Matthew 6:7 I listened to a bunch of nuns chanting today on the EWTN (Eternal Word Television Network) cable channel. It's a cable channel just for Catholics, also used to brainwash children with Catholic heresies. Those nuns in their penguin outfits looked so silly. It was all vain repetitions. They were just moaning, repeating the words of the head nun (the kind of nun that looked like she'd hit you with a ruler). It was so dead and formal, no life and joy of the Lord. I couldn't help but feel sorry for those blinded people, carrying heavy religious burdens, grievous to be borne... "For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers." —Matthew 23:4 Jesus offers restful salvation to anyone who will receive it. Salvation is simple. God doesn't require us to perform sacraments or give our lives to the Catholic Church. Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven is within our hearts, not in temples or extravagant buildings made by men. God is a Spirit and they that worship Him MUST worship Him in Spirit and in TRUTH (John 4:24). You CANNOT worship God in heresy or tradition. Jesus offers us rest from the heavy burdens placed upon us by the religions of mankind. Religion is a sure road to hell, ONLY through Christ Jesus can anyone be forgiven and their name written in heaven. "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." -Matthew 11:28 Salvation is found in Christ alone --NOT by baptism, NOT by the sacraments, NOT by church membership, NOT by good works, NOT by praying the rosary, NOT by sacrificing, NOT by religion, NOT by mass, NOT by the Pope, NOT by the priest...ONLY by Jesus Christ. The Fiction of Fatima (the Hoax of Our Lady of Fatima) Devotion to Mary is Unscriptural The following excellent article was written by a former devout Roman Catholic (Tony Capoccia) concerning the unscriptural following of Mary: "No one who has carefully examined the events of and surrounding Fatima could possibly share your opinion of the Blessed Mother. I was a Catholic for 34 years. I was a great devoted follower of Mary. But after I became a Christian, I went to four years of seminary and made it a point to carefully study the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. I compared their doctrines to the truths of the Bible, and they (the Catholic Church) are without a doubt full of false doctrines, and therefore a false religion. Mary was a wonderful person, and blessed, but she, like every other human was a sinner, before and after the birth of Christ. So was Joseph, and the Apostles. The Bible says "all" have sinned, there is not one who does good, no not one! Mary was a sinner and needed a Savior. The lie of the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, is that Mary (just like Jesus) was born without sin. But this is a direct contradiction to the Bible. The Catholic Church also claims that Mary, was a perpetual virgin all of her life. Yet the Bible says this is simply not true, for Mary was a virgin until Jesus was born, and then had normal sexual relations with her husband Joseph, and had other children, see Matthew 1:23-25: "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" - which means, "God with us." When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no union with her "until" she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus. [Matthew 1:23-25] The Catholic Church dishonors Mary by giving her honor God never intended. There was an incident when Jesus' mother and "brothers" (Mary's children), went to get Jesus: "When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind." [Mark 3:21] "Someone told Jesus, 'Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.' He replied to him, 'Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?' Pointing to his disciples, Jesus said, 'Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.'" [Matthew 12:47-50] The point Jesus was making is that Mary, his earthly mother, had no special position or honor over any other Christian who does God's will. Mary is blessed, as was the Apostles, they were used by God in a special way, but she was never to be worshipped and elevated as the Catholics do--this is a dishonor to her and to Christ. Mary is in heaven and doesn't have clue what we are doing here and could care less, she is focused on Jesus her Lord and Savior. The prayers of Catholics to Mary and the other saints are an abomination and a stench in the nostrils of God, for, "there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." [1 Timothy 2:5] See that, only one mediator! Mary is not a mediator, she can't hear us nor intervene in any way. You are caught up in a great deception, and will someday pay a tremendous price of eternal suffering in the Lake of Fire unless you bow down to Jesus, and Jesus alone, repenting of your sins, confessing belief in who Jesus claimed to be: God, the "ONLY" mediator, the only way of salvation, and then submitting to His Word and will. Also, Fatima is a lie straight from the pit. Satan stages false healings, or removes his crippling effects at the right time to give "Our Lady of Fatima" the credit, in order to keep the people duped. It is like a bunch of pagans bowing down and praying to a rock. If the rock never answered a prayer, then in time they would throw the rock away, but if "once in a while" the rock would do something for them, then they will keep praying to the rock. Fatima is the Catholic rock, a plaster statue, that Satan uses once in a while to fake a healing to keep the Catholics deceived and it seems to be working." -Tony Capoccia (former devout Roman Catholic for 34 years). Catholicism is Straight From the Pits of Hell Catholicism is of the devil, no doubt about it. I say this from a Biblical perspective. You cannot argue with me unless you have already reject the Bible. The traditions of the Catholic Church are NOT inspired. Nearly every cult in the world claims inspiration to some writings written by heretics. The Seventh Day Adventists teach that the writings of Ellen G. White are inspired. So also do Mormons claim inspiration to the Book of Mormon. Don't be deceived my friend, the ONLY God-breathed Book on this planet is the Bible (which I believe to be the preserved 1611 King James Bible). Satan wants to deceive you, he has already deceived the masses... "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world" -Revelation 12:9 Upon the death of Pope John Paul II, the world came together in unity to praise the departed Catholic idol. The Bible clearly teaches that the world loves it's own... "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." -John 15:19 I am hated because I am not of the world, I am against the world (James 4:4). Roman Catholicism is of the world, devilish in it's doctrines. I am on God's side, exposing the lies and the heresies. The Bible teaches that Satan is deceiving the masses of the world. Please do not allow the Catholic religion to lead you into hell. Don't be deceived by the Catholic priest's familiar use of Biblical terms and lingo, you are being LIED TO! The Bible doesn't teach many of the teachings that the Catholic Church propagates. Do your homework! Read your Bible! Pray to the Holy Spirit directly and ask God to guide you into all truth. Tradition Verses the Bible Here is the Scripture that I think describes Roman Catholicism the best... "He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition." -Mark 7:6-9 The Roman Catholic Church is a BIG HOAX because it teaches the TRADITIONS of men instead of the commandments of God. In so doing, the Vatican has created a non-spirit based religion that offers faithless heathens a structured system of religion from the cradle to the casket. No faith is required to be a Catholic, just do as you are told. Do you know who the first Catholic was? It was Cain who tried to impress God with his works. Able had faith and it pleased God. Listen friend, it all comes down to Catholic tradition (dogma) verses the Bible. Upon what authority does the Catholic church makes these bizarre claims? They play too many word games, thus confusing their own people. Catholic worship is false worship. Please read through these several links and ask God to open your heart. I triple-dog dare you to find all the Catholic traditions in the Bible. You won't! May God bless you with discernment to see the TRUTH,
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#1. To: Fred Mertz (#0)
How many people do you think will end up in hell because the Catholics lied about Purgatory. You know the lie that the Catholic "church" tells people that was actually made up by Gregory the great.
ping
ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Would you kiss the popes feet? Why?
Why do you think Catholics pray to Mary when it isn't in the Bible. In fact it is forbidden. (Matthew 11:28; Luke 1:46; Acts 10:25-26; 14:14-18) They must be worshipping something else.
good start, may I add? Here goes, Mary, Queen of Heaven: Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. {queen...: or, frame, or, workmanship of heaven} Jeremiah 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. {queen...: or, frame of heaven} {victuals: Heb. Bread} Jeremiah 44:18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine. Jeremiah 44:19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men? {men: or, husbands?} Jeremiah 44:25 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows. Eli, Eli, nai erchomai Kurios Iesous.
http://www.jesus-is- savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/catholic_heresies-a_list.htm
Willie you aggravate me sometimes. What I said the other day about a soldering iron. THat wasn't to be taken literally. It just means I strongly disagree with you.
Pass.
I'd pass too. You can't refute. Not even a sentence. Not even a sentence. You just surrendered.
Is that the catholic Jesus? Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
The Eucharist has been referred to as the Catholic "wafer god". I think that is an appropriate name for it. Without eating their Jesus, the Eucharist, Catholics believe they can't go to heaven. Their Jesus, the Eucharist, is also called "The Sacrifice" and "The Victim" (see above encyclical for examples). You see, they don't believe that the work of Jesus Christ was finished on the cross--He is supposed to be a perpetual victim always getting sacrificed over and over again. Dying over and over and over. http://www.jesus-is- savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/satanic_eucharist_and_mass. htm
No, I just decided not to engage in a pointless fight.
It is not pointless. I honestly seek the truth. I see many many things in the Catholic Chruch that contradict scripture. You're the one who is knowledgeable about Catholic doctrine. So who else to ask about it and dispel any wrong notions I or others have and perhaps show you a thing or two. It is a win win. I pledge to you to do my utmost to make this a civil discussion. To not attack you personally. I know I have a bad habit of doing just that. I promise to do my best to make it a learning experience. What is with that thing the pope has in his hand. Do Catholics really consider it jesus or a symbol of Jesus? It seems to be an idol to me. Can you tell me why it isn't an idol? If it isn't an idol what purpose does it serve? How long have popes been using that thing?
I honestly seek the truth. I see many many things in the Catholic Chruch that contradict scripture. You're the one who is knowledgeable about Catholic doctrine. So who else to ask about it and dispel any wrong notions I or others have and perhaps show you a thing or two. It is a win win. I pledge to you to do my utmost to make this a civil discussion. To not attack you personally. I know I have a bad habit of doing just that. I promise to do my best to make it a learning experience. What is with that thing the pope has in his hand. Do Catholics really consider it jesus or a symbol of Jesus? It seems to be an idol to me. Can you tell me why it isn't an idol? If it isn't an idol what purpose does it serve? How long have popes been using that thing? I will have a civil discussion, and only that. The thing in the Pope's hand is called a "monstrance". It's a Latinate word that means "thing for demonstration". What it "demonstrates" is what is in the center of it: there is a glass panel in it into which the consecrated bread of the eucharist - communion bread - is placed. It is then put on the altar and displayed. The logic is thus: Jesus at the last supper said "this is my body". He didn't say "this is a representation of my body", but "this IS my body". He gave it to them and told them to eat it. Earlier in his ministry he alluded to this very moment, when he warned that "Unless you eat my flesh and drink by blood you have no life in you". That was confusing to the disciples at the time, and many left him at that point. It call came clear at the last supper, when Jesus held up the matzoh and the wine and said "This is my body...This is my blood..." He called this the blood of the New Covenant, and commanded that this be done in remembrance of him. So, the body and blood, the bread and wine, are a Big Deal. The covenant with Abraham required that his heirs be circumcised. And the New Covenant requires - REQUIRES - it is not optional - that we eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus OR ELSE. Or else what? Or else "You have no life in you". According to Jesus, eternal life DEPENDS UPON taking the bread and wine of the new covenant, which are his body and his blood, just exactly as he literally said in the Bible. Catholics take what Jesus said on those two instances ABSOLUTELY LITERALLY. Somehow - it is a miracle - the bread and wine become the body and blood of Jesus, which we are commanded to eat, or 'we have no life in us'. That is the covenant, and that is the specific required act. Jesus never commanded anybody to read the Bible in order to live. In fact, what he said about the Scriptures was to consult them, "for YOU think you find in them eternal life", but Jesus himself said that if you do not eat his flesh and drink his blood, you have no life in you. So, the Jews, the Pharisees, THOUGHT THAT eternal life was found in the written word, but Jesus actually SAID that eternal life was found in eating his bread and drinking his blood, and then at the Last Supper he made it explicit that the bread and wine ARE his bread and blood, and that we are to DO this. If we DON'T do this, then we have no life in us. Jesus underscored this very point after his crucifixion. On the road to Emmaeus, his disciples did not recognize him. Only when he broke the bread and gave it to them was the veil lifted from their eyes and they realized that they were in the presence of Jesus, the Resurrected Lord. The Eucharist IS the New Covenant. Abraham had to circumcise. Jews had to perform their sacrifices. Christians are commanded to eat the body and blood of Christ, in the form of the bread and wine. If Abraham's heirs didn't, they were cut off from the covenant. If the Israelites' heirs didn't perform the sacrifices of the law, they were cut off from the covenant. If Christians do not eat the body and drink the blood of Christ, as he himself showed us, then we are not part of the covenant and have no life in us. The eucharist IS Christ's blood and body, and eternal life cannot be had without Christ, in spirit, but also in the material flesh - we must eat the eucharist to have salvation. Why? BEcause JESUS SAID SO EXPLICITLY, and Catholics take Jesus ABSOLUTELY LITERALLY. Protestants don't take Jesus literally on the necessity of the body and blood to salvation, but Catholics (and the Orthodox) DO. Paul also recognized the particular sanctity of the body and blood, for he warned that taking the eucharist in a state of sin was DAMAGING to the person who took it - it is taking what is holy within an unholy vessel, bringing condemnation. So, Catholics have Jesus telling them they have to take the eucharist, and telling them that it's actually HIM they are eating, and admonishing them to do this, and then doing it himself at Emmaeus. And Paul followed suit with his warnings about the eucharist. Now we come forward in Church history, and have the various circumstances in which the bread miraculously converted into human flesh and blood. One such example, that has been preserved, is the Lanciano Eucharistic Miracle, of 600 AD. That case of conversion was preserved in a crystal reliquary and still remains. The flesh and blood is incorrupt - it never decayed, in 1400 years. It is human heart tissue - the sacred heart of Jesus. And it is the same rare blood type (AB) as appears on the Shroud of Turin. There have been other eucharistic miracles, but Lanciano is the best preserved truly ancient one. So, there is what Jesus said and did, what the Church did ever since, and proof from God in the form of miracles over time, when the belief was challenged. Catholics believe that they are eating the flesh and drinking the blood of God in the eucharist, that Jesus is literally present, physically, right there during communion. The monstrance, then, puts the flesh and blood of Jesus at the center of a golden flame of the Holy Spirit, puts it at the center of the altar, for people to contemplate and worship. If the Catholics are wrong and the flesh and blood of God are not physically present, then this is idolatry. If the Catholics are right, then God is physically present and tangible,as the flesh of Jesus. The Catholics believe in the latter, which is a LITERAL read of what Jesus said and did, and which follows the examples of eucharistic miracles that God has sent through the ages. So, that's what Catholics believe about the eucharist, and WHY they display it that way. It's either idolatry, or it's true. If it were not for the Eucharistic Miracles, my rational human mind would diminish the eucharist and suggest that it's just a symbol, a metaphor, like many people think that Genesis is - not real. The Catholic Church takes Jesus literally regarding the flesh and blood, just as, say, you take Genesis 1 as literal. Same literalness, for the same reason: The Bible says. But the Lanciano Eucharistic Miracle exists. It is real. It has been analyszed, studied. I've read the reports. I believe that it is an example of God's confirmation that this is the real deal, just as he said. So, while I think that the monstrance is over the top in its religiosity, I do not think it is idolatry, because I think that Jesus is to be taken literally, and that through Lanciano he demonstrated that in a way that is verifiable even by science (for the Thomases among us). That's what the monstrance is. That's what Catholics believe. I myself don't particularly like the monstrance because it FEELS idolatrous. This is not a form of adoration I favor. I'd rather EAT the bread and DRINK the wine, as directed. But I don't think that the sincere worship of the physical presence of God IS in fact idolatrous, any more than the brazen serpent of Moses was an idol. So, that's why. You will not accept it, but that is what and why.
I read partly the way through. Here is my first point and question. I have no problem with eating the bread and drinking the wine like Jesus did at the last supper. I see that staff thing whatever you called it. As an idol. That they put that bread in there. That is adding to what Jesus did and said to do. I think it is an idol. I guess we should look up what an idol is.
what is an object ob·ject noun ÈäbjYkt/ 1. a material thing that can be seen and touched.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11344a.htm two priests vested in albs should carry a portable shrine (feretrum) "in which also the Body of the Lord ought to be deposited". Although there is here no suggestion that the Host should be exposed to view but rather the contrary, still we find that this English custom led, in at least one instance, to the construction of an elaborately decorated shrine for the carrying of the Blessed Sacrament on this special occasion. Simon, Abbot of St. Albans (1166-83), presented to the abbey a costly ark-shaped vessel adorned with enamels representing scenes of the Passion, which was to be used on Palm Sunday "that the faithful might see with what honour the most holy Body of Christ should be treated which at this season offered itself to be scourged, crucified and buried" ("Gesta Abbatum", Rolls Series, I, 191- 92). That this, however, was in any proper sense an ostensorium in which the Host was exposed to view is not stated and cannot be assumed. At the same time it is highly probable that such ostensoria in the strict sense began to be constructed in the thirteenth century, and there are some vessels still in existence — for example, an octagonal monstrance at Bari, bearing: the words "Hic Corpus Domini" — which may very well belong to that date. Dude that's an idol.
Does it mean you can change your views?
Calvin and his followers rejected this/
Lutherans too, and so do the Copts, Armenians, Ethiopians and most of Anglicans/Episcopalians. Only followers of Calvin do not believe it.
Sure. It's possible. But you have to show me factually where I am wrong.
If you base your faith on the words of Christ, burden of proof is on your side.
There are some other peculiaritie's about the pope that the average joe overlooks, like the scepter the pope carries that has christ mounted on a crooked cross (swastika) and the hand signal the pope uses when addressing crowds where he touches his index finger to the tip of his thumb and extends the remaining fingers to form what looks like 3 sixes stacked atop each other. He ALWAYS uses his right hand when giving this sign, never the left.
In your view. Other Christians strongly disagree. And God, for his part, sent the miracle to Lanciano and various other miracles, so apparently he's not as offended as you are. For my part, I'd prefer that all of that pomp and circumstance be done away with, because it is a stumbling block for folks like you, and I agree with Paul that we should not be putting unneccessary stumbling blocks in front of our brothers and sisters. We must have the bread and wine - that is the sign of the covenant. We don't have to do the rest. Should the bread be unleavened matzoh (the Catholic practice, and the actual bread of the Passover meal that Jesus consecrated) or leavened (the Orthodox practice)? Well, I think we ought to follow Jesus' example. The Lanciano Miracle involved unleavened bread. In fact, the actual miracle involved an Eastern priest consecrating the eucharist in Italy having doubts that the unleavened Italian form was really an acceptable host - when it turned into bloody flesh in his hands in the Church. To me, the issue is getting at the marrow of it all. All of the money spent on buildings and ornate stuff strikes me as a snare and the setting up of stumbling blocks. I don't like that, but the fact that God keeps providing miracles tells me that God is still there, for all of the error.
My faith is actually based on personal miracle. My knowledge of who did the miracles is based on Scripture. In Scripture, the most authoritative words are those of Christ, YHWH, Elohiym and the angels, because God speaks directly, and I think God's purpose in preserving the Scriptures was to speak directly to each generation who can hear.
"VERILY, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink INDEED. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. " "Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an HARD SAYING; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples MURMURED at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?" "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God."
All that you say is true they do follow the traditions of men and lead many astray but remember God is bigger and has a way of revealing himself and drawing people unto him. The truth of the Gospels will shine through if people study them and focus on the truth. We have to get away from the concept that there is a true church and all the others are wrong. The Church is people in relationship with Jesus. It isn't an organisation. Mathew 23 describes seven situations where the jews were being led astray by established religion and the same situation exists today and has for 2,000 years or longer. many Christian churches, not just the Catholic Church are described in these passages and in the seven churches of Revelation because Jesus tells all of these churches to repent
Church is Body of Christ. It is visible despite what Luther said.
Yep, that's the quote. That's why the eucharist is the central feature of Catholic and Orthodox worship. ...and it's why the Catholics have those monstrances.
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Here is my first point and question. I answered your first point and question. You think it's an idol. I understand why you think that. Catholics and Orthodox Christians do not think it is an idol. I've tried to explain why I myself don't think it's an idol either, but I don't myself like the ornate monstrances and all that, in part because I find it ostentatious and idolatrous in appearance (if not in fact), and in part because it is things like this that make it very hard for Christians to unite. It's a stumbling block, and since it is not NECESSARY, I think it's pretty important to stop doing things that shock folks like you and that look like idolatry to your eyes. Jesus didn't carve a monstrance, but he did pray for unity, so if the monstrance is a cause of disunity (clearly it is - you think it's an idol), and if it's not a requirement imposed by Jesus (it isn't), then it should go if that will remove an impediment to unity. I think unity is important, because Jesus said so. What you will find in all of my religious analysis is that I focus very fixedly on what exactly Jesus said and did, almost exclusively, because HE is "the way, the truth, the life". So, bread and wine - vital, because Jesus. Monstrance? Not important enough to fight over if it repels you, because Jesus. Obviously I'm not the Pope, or a Bishop, or a priest, or a deacon, or anybody of importance, really, so my personal view of the monstrance isn't going to make it go away. But I'm not going to leave the Church over it either, because I don't think it's an idol (or if it is, it's not a very interesting one). We can't go further on that question. Three different views have been expressed: yours, traditional Catholicism's, and my own. We can move to the next subject in the things I wrote about, if you want, or we can just drop it.
If that's a criticism, I will accept it. Thomas was an apostle, and yet he did not, and would not, believe unless he saw Jesus. Well, Jesus said that those who didn't see and yet believed were blessed. But Jesus ALSO made the appearance for Thomas, and Thomas did believe. And Jesus left the Shroud and other miracles, so that Thomases of all ages have the proof they need, if they need it. Jesus said that those who believed without seeing are blessed. But he did not say that those who could not believe without seeing are damned. And he provided a way that those who NEED to see, like me, CAN see, if they choose to. I note that Thomas went on to be the first to explicitly call Jesus GOD. The others did not, but Thomas did. He also went on to be a martyr, and he remained an Apostle. So yes, those who do not see and yet believed are blessed. But those who need to see, and do see, and believe - they are also blessed. Perhaps not as much. But then again, perhaps the proof they needed, and were given, moves them to heights of sacrifice and devotion that exceed others. Jesus said the faithful non-seers were blessed. But he didn't say that the seers were cursed. And he DID leave the Shroud, and Lanciano, and the Incorrupt, and the Lourdes healings, so that ANYBODY who really NEEDS to see, and who genuninely WANTS to see, can see and be face-to- face with the very handiwork of God, without any question. Some have taken what Jesus said to Thomas as proof that God does not reveal himself materially. And that doctrine is completely false. He does absolutely. The miracles he left are for the Thomases of all ages, and they do prove God, making faith possible for the Thomases who want to believe, but cannot without proof. God left the proof. One need only look at it.
Much less than those who believe in sola scripture and that only faith, not acts, matter. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
No snakes to fondle, no tent revivals, no plastic-haired TV hucksters with whorish-looking wives - yeah, without those it's got to be a fake.
"is the Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice." Sounds about right.
I don't think they have any revivals at all.
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#2. To: A K A Stone, *Religious History and Issues* (#0)
#3. To: Vicomte13 (#0)
#4. To: redleghunter, garyspfc (#2)
#5. To: A K A Stone (#0)
#6. To: A K A Stone (#0)
I triple-dog dare you to find all the Catholic traditions in the Bible. You won't!
#7. To: Willie Green (#6)
#8. To: Willie Green (#6)
#9. To: A K A Stone (#0)
#10. To: Vicomte13 (#9)
Pass.
#11. To: Vicomte13 (#9)
(Edited)
#12. To: redleghunter (#11)
#13. To: A K A Stone (#10)
You just surrendered.
#14. To: Vicomte13 (#13)
You just surrendered. No, I just decided not to engage in a pointless fight.
#15. To: A K A Stone (#14)
(Edited)
t is not pointless.
#16. To: Vicomte13 (#15)
#17. To: All (#16)
i·dol È+dl/Submit noun an image or representation of a god used as an object of worship.
#18. To: All (#17)
#19. To: Vicomte13 (#15)
#20. To: A K A Stone (#14)
I honestly seek the truth.
#21. To: Vicomte13 (#15)
Catholics take what Jesus said on those two instances ABSOLUTELY LITERALLY. Somehow - it is a miracle - the bread and wine become the body and blood of Jesus, which we are commanded to eat, or 'we have no life in us'. That is the covenant, and that is the specific required act.
#22. To: Vicomte13 (#15)
Protestants don't take Jesus literally on the necessity of the body and blood to salvation, but Catholics (and the Orthodox) DO.
#23. To: A Pole (#20)
I honestly seek the truth. Does it mean you can change your views?
#24. To: A K A Stone (#23)
But you have to show me factually where I am wrong.
#25. To: A K A Stone (#23)
#26. To: A K A Stone (#19)
(Edited)
Dude that's an idol.
#27. To: A Pole (#24)
If you base your faith on the words of Christ
#28. To: Vicomte13 (#27)
In Scripture, the most authoritative words are those of Christ,
#29. To: A K A Stone (#0)
May God bless you with discernment to see the TRUTH,
#30. To: paraclete (#29)
We have to get away from the concept that there is a true church and all the others are wrong. The Church is people in relationship with Jesus.
#31. To: A Pole (#28)
(Edited)
#32. To: Vicomte13 (#27)
My faith is actually based on personal miracle.
#33. To: A K A Stone (#16)
I read partly the way through.
#34. To: A Pole (#32)
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
#35. To: Logsplitter (#25)
(Edited)
#36. To: A K A Stone, Fred Mertz, redleghunter, All (#1)
How many people do you think will end up in hell because the Catholics lied about Purgatory.
#37. To: A K A Stone (#1)
(Edited)
#38. To: SOSO (#36)
Much less than those who believe in sola scripture
#39. To: Hank Rearden (#37)
no tent revivals
#40. To: Hank Rearden (#37)
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
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