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Title: Crook’s arm ripped off after failed robbery attempt
Source:
NY Daily News
URL Source: http://nypost.com/2016/02/12/crooks ... -after-failed-robbery-attempt/
Published: Feb 12, 2016
Author: Tina Moore, Larry Celona, Shawn Cohen an
Post Date: 2016-02-13 08:44:51 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 4661
Comments: 36
A 17-year-old robber’s arm was severed in Brooklyn after he held up a 39-year-old man at gunpoint for a pair of pricey sneakers, police sources said. Through the app Wallapop, the pair had arranged to meet up at 1 p.m. on Friday in Canarsie. But when the seller showed up, asking $490 for a pair of Air Jordan 8 Retro sneakers, the teen crook pulled out a gun and demanded the kicks for free inside the older man’s car, police sources said. The 39-year-old stepped on the gas pedal, but the gunman jumped out of his car at the intersection of East 86th Street and Avenue M, sources said. Instead of speeding off, the seller turned his car around and drove after the teenager, crashing into him in front of a fence. The robber’s arm was ripped off when he was pinned against the fence. “I saw a kid under a car,” said Alex Saint Fleur, a bus driver who lives across the street. “The guy ran him over. He got out, the driver said, ‘He’s trying to rob me. He’s trying to rob me.’” “I saw the gun on the floor,” Fleur added. “The arm was on the floor near the gun.” The teen got out from under the car, he said, and ran inside a city bus. “Everyone is screaming, ‘Come back, come back, your arm. You’re bleeding too much,’” Fleur said. The crook got out of the bus and started running down Avenue M, he said, before finally collapsing in the street. The teen was taken to Brookdale Hospital, where he remains in serious but stable condition, law enforcement sources said. The 39-year-old driver will likely be arrested, according to police sources. On Friday afternoon, the bus was pulled over on 80th Street, blood spattered on its front entrance. “I was walking up the sidewalk and I heard a boom behind me,” said a postal worker who declined to give her name. “I just kept it moving. I saw somebody run on the bus with a missing arm.” 
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#1. To: cranky (#0)
The driver will be convicted.
Had he gotten away, he'd be a fugitive. Ah, the cosmic irony.
Yes, the driver will be convicted. You have the right to defend yourself, and you have the right to flee. But if you flee, you do not have the right to return and kill (or try to). Maybe you should, maybe it appeals to your sense of justice, but you don't. So if you do it, as this guy did, you go to jail for attempted murder. He will also be sued by the victim - for once the guy turned around and came back and crashed the kid into the fence and tore his arm off, the would-be robber was transformed into the victim of the second crime. He will be sued, and he will lose: the victim will get compensation because he has been crippled for life by an attempted murder. Is it fair? Is it just? I'm not sure in a cosmic sense. I know that if I were King, the law would not insist that the original crime somehow "broke off" when the original intended victim retreated. A man pointed a deadly weapon at him, and that vicious criminal is still out there with a gun, so I personally think that the guy turning around and crashing the gun- toting attacker into the wall was doing the equivalent of removing a rabid dog from the street. If I were King, the original criminal, the robber, would not be considered a victim. He would be treated, and incarcerated nd rehabilitated. The guy with the car would also be rehabilitated for a shorter time period, with warnings not to go out and become a vigilante, but without punishment for this crime. The criminal's severed arm would cover most of the penalty phase - no long prison term for attempted robbery - he won't be doing that again - he learned his lesson the very bitterly hard way. I would try to induce the young armless theif into becoming part of the "Scared Straight" program to graphically demonstrate the price of crime to other young people. I don't really know if YHWH would approve of that or not, but that's what my approach to justice would be, if I were King. Once you point deadly weapons, you're offering to commit murder. And that can be replied to with death. I do not believe that if somebody escapes death, that it is wrong for him to return and neutralize the threat that offered him death. I understand that that would result in a lot more killing, but I think that most of the people who would get killed are the sort that need killing. I'm not keen on spending a lot of my people's money caging criminals. I'd prefer people handle these things themselves. So yes, under OUR system the driver will be convicted, and he'll lose the civil case for maiming. That is a virtual certitude. But our system of justice is not, and never has been, very just or very smart.
b) “I saw a kid under a car,” c) “I saw the gun on the floor,” Fleur added. “The arm was on the floor near the gun.” a, b, and c are mutually exclusive. He can't be pinned against a fence while under the car with his arm in the car. The story I read was that the kid stuck the gun through the window to shoot the guy and the guy accelerated, ripping off the arm. The driver deserves a medal.
The bad news here is the little thug just retired with disability on SS. Which,IMHO he should never receive because he got his injury while committing a felony. Let him live on the streets and eat rats he catches.
ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
The driver will be convicted. Yes,and he should have never been charged. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
We don't agree. The kid tried an armed robbery but backed down and tried to flee when his victim resisted. The intent of this driver was clearly to maim or kill. The kid didn't have the guts to kill over the sneakers but the driver did act with malice and intent. The driver demonstrated intent from the moment he turned the vehicle around to pursue this kid. Courts and prosecutors can't just ignore it even if we have no real sympathy for the wannabe robber.
One-arm pulled a deadly weapon on the driver. The driver responded in kind.
Is it legal for 17-year-olds to possess handguns in Brooklyn?
Who says it was attempted murder? Perhaps the driver was attempting to apprehend the suspect. The 17 year old got severely injured in the process. How many times does that happen when police do the same? The driver simply didn't have the benefit of having a firearm on hand to shoot the suspect. He only had his car. This is a brief news report. The facts may vary from it somewhat. Returning to confront the suspect is not a crime. But if the kid then pulled his gun on the driver, the driver would be justified in responding with deadly force. Isn't that the standard applied to police? This is not a cut and dry case.
The intent of the driver was to flee an armed felon. "The pair met through Craigslist, where they had arranged to exchange a pair of Air Jordan sneakers near East 86th Street and Avenue M in Canarsie. But instead, the 17-year-old would-be robber pulled a gun on the 39-year-old man, who was sitting in his car, sources said. The victim then stomped on the gas to get away, dragging the crook, whose arm was ripped off, law enforcement sources said." This quote was also from the New York Post.
THIS time. Who knows what he would have done the next time? The one thing we can be sure of is there would have been a next time. There might even be a next time still,once his SS disability checks start rolling in and he can afford to buy another gun. One of life's universal truths is that if you keep sticking a gun in people's faces,sooner or later you will either end up using it to kill or be killed yourself. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Only if he is not white. If he's white,the system will assume his family has money,and dedicate themselves to removing all the family money in fines and court fees. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
I really don't need to refute this. The difference is obvious. The driver went from victim to attempted murder or maiming while demonstrating intent.
You can't punish people for what they might do. If I were a reporter writing this story, I wouldn't be able to resist working the phrase "one-armed bandit" in somewhere. : )
Then we have a conflict in the accounts and will have to await the police report. If the driver only fled while Bandito was being dragged, I'm not so sure how his arm got ripped off so easily. Or how the vehicle crashed as a result.
All bets are off. Found a video. The driver is screwed.
He does have a right and a duty to stop the robber by any means necessary and subdue him. If the criminal resist including running then its his fault he gets hurt or killed. There can be no good if evil is protected by laws.
Under the laws of some nations in some time periods, perhaps. Just not this one at this time.
He'll likely take the first plea deal the prosecutor offers to avoid any trial. The video will devastate any legal defense. It is good to wait until these conflicting reports sort themselves out, as this video you found did.
Yes he will be convicted. Assuming that the story is correct and he was robbed he should have the right to put a bullet the robbers brain without punishment. This was not a snatch and grab this was a robber using a deadly weapon to steal. The system is rigged for the criminals and the criminals will keep doing what they do until they bring everyone down to their level. ie Chicago and New Jersey come to mind where criminals run the show and good run and hide. If I were on the jury I would not convict just because the robber used a weapon. Its a sad day when criminals rule the city and the law.
It probably won't get to trial. The video shows that the driver was no longer in fear for his life. BUT, let's say it was an undercover cop selling the shoes. Now we have a felon, fleeing, with a gun. The cop is allowed to use deadly force under the "fleeing felon" rule. In this case the citizen used his car to stop him, and the perp was not killed. So it could have been worse.
I'm good with that. After all,who started it by pulling a gun? ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
You can't punish people for what they might do. You call it punishment,I call it giving them what they ask for. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Not to mention face bankruptcy and loss of job from days missed while going to court. All because he performed a public service. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Uh-huh. Well, then, this thread is over with and I declare you the unconditional victor. How's that?
Indeed. He made a conscious effort to return and cause further bodily harm. The armed thief was disarmed (no pun intended) and no longer a threat. For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:6-8)
I'm sure I'm not the only one who somewhat enjoyed the driver cutting that punk criminal down to size. GoFundMe will help him with his legal battles. Heck, I'd be willing to chip in.
He'll plead to anything the D.A. offers, anything to avoid a jury.
Glad to see you are maturing! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
No longer a threat? Are you freaking kidding me? He is 17 years old and already sticking a gun in the face of a stranger to steal a pair of freaking sneakers and casually walking away without even looking back,just like he had done nothing wrong! Are you turning into one of those people who think he is a "gud boi,he be gibbin hiz life to JayZus now,and looking for a steady job!" The little thug is going to be even more dangerous now because he only has one arm. You can bet the farm the next time he sticks a gun in somebody's face he is going to shoot them. I ain't listening to that "he's just a boy" nonsense,either. He is 17,and 17 is old enough to understand robbing people at gun point is a bad thing,as well as being dangerous. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
I loved it,and frankly would love to see more of it. These boogers need to learn that actions have consequences,some painful and some fatal. I mean no harm to any living soul,but if you stick a gun in my face and then make the mistake of taking your eye off of me,you are in serious doo-doo because I will do my level best to kill you. If you don't want me killing you,you shouldn't be sticking a gun in my face. ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Not at all Pete. If the driver took off and crushed him to death upon seeing the gun, then self defense or stand ground applies. The crime happened, perp went one way and the driver another. Then the driver reverses course and with premeditation decides to use his vehicle to harm the perp. If all of this was done in the heat of a struggle the victim driver would not be charged. And no I don't think the punk is a "good boy." He should still be charged for armed robbery. For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:6-8)
Now he's the one-armed bandit for the rest of his life. Or, slot machine for short. hehehe
Yeah, ya gotta hand it to him. He'll be slopping from the public trough from now on. And perhaps he'll even go on to reproduce. Ah, the cycle of life in America today. There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't
That will be his new street name, LOL Si vis pacem, para bellum Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. There are no Carthaginian terrorists. President Obama is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people. --Clint Eastwood A friend will help you move ,But a good friend will help you move a body..
Instead of speeding off, the seller turned his car around and drove after the teenager, crashing into him in front of a fence.
#2. To: cranky (#0)
"The crook got out of the bus and started running down Avenue M ..."
#3. To: TooConservative (#1)
#4. To: cranky (#0)
a) The robber’s arm was ripped off when he was pinned against the fence.
#5. To: cranky (#0)
#6. To: TooConservative (#1)
Instead of speeding off, the seller turned his car around and drove after the teenager, crashing into him in front of a fence.
#7. To: sneakypete (#6)
#8. To: TooConservative (#7)
The kid didn't have the guts to kill over the sneakers but the driver did act with malice and intent.
#9. To: Fred Mertz (#8)
"One-arm pulled a deadly weapon on the driver."
#10. To: Vicomte13 (#3)
So if you do it, as this guy did, you go to jail for attempted murder.
#11. To: TooConservative (#7)
"The intent of this driver was clearly to maim or kill."
#12. To: TooConservative (#7)
(Edited)
The kid tried an armed robbery but backed down and tried to flee
#13. To: misterwhite (#9)
Is it legal for 17-year-olds to possess handguns in Brooklyn?
#14. To: Fred Mertz (#8)
One-arm pulled a deadly weapon on the driver. The driver responded in kind.
#15. To: sneakypete, Fred Mertz (#12)
THIS time. Who knows what he would have done the next time?
#16. To: misterwhite (#11)
The victim then stomped on the gas to get away, dragging the crook, whose arm was ripped off, law enforcement sources said."
#17. To: TooConservative (#16)
#18. To: Vicomte13, TooConservative (#3)
Yes, the driver will be convicted. You have the right to defend yourself, and you have the right to flee. But if you flee, you do not have the right to return and kill (or try to).
#19. To: Justified (#18)
a right and duty to stop...any means necessary
#20. To: misterwhite, Vicomte13 (#17)
#21. To: Vicomte13 (#19)
Under the laws of some nations in some time periods, perhaps. Just not this one at this time.
#22. To: Justified (#21)
"Yes he will be convicted."
#23. To: TooConservative (#14)
The driver went from victim to attempted murder or maiming while demonstrating intent.
#24. To: TooConservative (#15)
THIS time. Who knows what he would have done the next time?
#25. To: TooConservative (#20)
(Edited)
He'll likely take the first plea deal the prosecutor offers to avoid any trial.
#26. To: sneakypete (#25)
All because he performed a public service.
#27. To: TooConservative (#1)
The driver will be convicted.
#28. To: sneakypete (#25)
All because he [the driver] performed a public service.
#29. To: redleghunter (#27)
Indeed. He made a conscious effort to return and cause further bodily harm. The armed thief was disarmed (no pun intended) and no longer a threat.
#30. To: TooConservative (#26)
Well, then, this thread is over with and I declare you the unconditional victor. How's that?
#31. To: redleghunter (#27)
The armed thief was disarmed (no pun intended) and no longer a threat.
#32. To: Fred Mertz (#28)
I'm sure I'm not the only one who somewhat enjoyed the driver cutting that punk criminal down to size.
#33. To: sneakypete (#31)
#34. To: redleghunter (#33)
He should still be charged for armed robbery.
#35. To: sneakypete (#5)
The bad news here is the little thug just retired with disability on SS.
#36. To: Fred Mertz (#34)
" slot machine for short "
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