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Title: Carrier to relocate Indianapolis manufacturing operations to Mexico, 1,400 jobs affected
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.wthr.com/story/31188372/ ... s-to-mexico-1400-jobs-affected
Published: Feb 12, 2016
Author: WTHR
Post Date: 2016-02-12 09:13:43 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 1949
Comments: 27

INDIANAPOLIS - Carrier has announced plans to relocate its Indianapolis operations to Mexico by 2019, affecting roughly 1,400 jobs.

Carrier manufactures furnaces at a facility on W. Morris St. in Indianapolis. The company plans to relocate over the next three years in three phases.

United Steelworkers 1999 employs about 1,300 members at the Morris Street Carrier plant. Chuck Jones, president of Local 1999, tells WTHR that employees were notified Wednesday morning about the jobs moving to Mexico.

"We did not see it coming. It was a total shock," said Jones.

He said the move ultimately means the loss of 1,300 union jobs that average $20 to $21 per hour.

Mayor Hogsett angered over Carrier move to Mexico

"We know the reason. They want to become more profitable by exploiting Mexican labor," said Jones.

"This facility is not losing money. If it was losing money, I think these things would be understood better. This company just wants to make more," said employee Robert James.

The phase-out is to begin in May of 2017 and will wrap up in 2019.

One Carrier employee with the company 31 years described the move as "a big blow."

While she preferred not to be identified, she said "there was a lot of sadness" and anxiety following the announcement.

"A lot of people don't know what they're going to do," she


Poster Comment:

Screw Carrier. There should be a 200 percent tariff on anything that crosses the border from them assholes.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 14.

#2. To: A K A Stone (#0) (Edited)

All this "Free" trade.

Yep, things will be cheaper at Wal-Mart.

But the cost of the unemployment, food stamps and Medicaid for 800 of those 1400 families hit by the layoffs will be more than the cost savings at Wal- Mart.

Trump is right about trade. So is Sanders. So was Perot.

America became the world's number one industrial power by 1890 BECAUSE OF a protective tarriff.

Of course the moneymen hate protectionism - it makes labor more expensive...but more expensive labor means a lot less welfare.

I'm from Detroit. I watched Detroit die due to "free" trade. It killed the Southern textile industries. It killed domestic TV and electronic manufacturers.

And open borders drove Americans out of construction (except for the moneymen, naturally).

And where do all of those people who USED to work hard and pay taxes go? Some get McJobs. Millions more go on unemployment, then welfare.

Meanwhile, Communist China builds a new aircraft carrier every year just from the INTEREST on the debt America owes them, because we borrowed all that money to buy their cheap shit at Wal-Mart.

Trump is dead right on trade, and if we don't get trade and immigration under control, you and I are not going to have a national home in which to fight with each other.

Remember the Klingon and Kirk in that old Star Trek episode: "Only a fool fights in a burning house. Cease hostilities."

We'll fight later, you and I. Right now, we need to keep our country ours. And that means Trump.

It's true, Trump is not a "conservative" as currently defined, on trade.

But if "conservative" means "looking at the past", the American government was FUNDED by the protective trade tarriff (and land sales) until 1900. Our industry was BUILT because we had a protective tarriff that shielded it so the low-cost British, later Germans, couldn't destroy it.

Control of borders means control of the flow of people and goods across them. It's why we have front doors on our houses. And Trump (and to his credit, Sanders) is the only one who says this obvious fact.

Hey, Cruz, Rubio, Jeb!, hate the idea of borders and controls on trade? Then tke the front door off your house, m'kay?

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-12   9:21:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

"Our industry was BUILT because we had a protective tariff"

You manufacture a product which you can sell (with a good profit) for $10. Your competitor (who manufactures overseas) can sell it for $6 but our "protective tariff" drives up his import cost to $20.

How long will it take you to figure out that you can raise your price to, say, $18?

misterwhite  posted on  2016-02-12   9:45:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: misterwhite (#8)

Historically, when we had the tarriff, we built the stuff here because it was cheaper to built it and transport it here than to buy it from abroad and pay the tarriff.

Also, we don't have to have the same tarriff for everybody.

There's no reason we can't have free trade with, say, England and Holland. Their social welfare is more expensive than ours, and their environmental protections are higher.

We don't have to have a trade war with the world. Western Europe is comparable to the US. They're not putting us out of jobs, because the cost structures of civilization are similar. There's no reason we can't maintain free trade with Europe and Australia. Open, transparent systems where they insist on worker and environmental protections.

We can tailor it to mean that we don't have to compete with Chinese slaves.

And once we're working well again, if we want to favor a PARTICULAR country, to, say, reduce immigration pressure, we could decide that our Most Favored poorrer nation for those purposes is Mexico. We could allow near-shoring, some factories in Mexico, to keep people there.

Putting our factories in Communist China beggars us and empowers our enemy, for cheap consumer goods. It's stupid, except for the financiers, like Goldman Sachs, who funds Cruz's life.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-12   9:56:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Vicomte13 (#11)

"We can tailor it to mean that we don't have to compete with Chinese slaves."

Slaves? They're earning more than they ever have and raising their standard of living. And every American benefits from the lower price.

"The U.S. has seen at least 91,000 job cuts across the energy industry since prices collapsed last summer, according to Continental Resources ..."

Hey. How about if we put a tariff on imported oil equivalent to $2 per gallon of gasoline? This way we can save U.S. drilling jobs.

misterwhite  posted on  2016-02-12   10:09:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 14.

#17. To: misterwhite (#14)

White, you're looking at things in a very simplistic and short-sighted way. "Lowest price right now - good."

We're talking about the national economy here, and there at least three interrelated factors, all of which matter.

(1) Industrial power. Why did England edge out France in their centuries-long competition at sea? It went back and forth until industrialization in the 19th Century. Then, the British industrial base was bigger than the French, and the British were able to produce more ships at a faster pace than the French. With a larger population, the French could not keep up. Why are India and China DEVELOPING economies, instead of world rulers? Because the Europeans got to industrialization first.

Why did America win both World Wars? Superior industrial power.

What you advocate - free trade - has gutted the American industrial base in favor of Communist China.

So, now, in shooting war, who can build more metal things, faster? They can. They have the plants to do it, they have the trained people to do it, they have the money to do it, and the have the current experience to do it. In a war of production with Communist China, we are turning into France and they are turning into Britain.

Is that what you want? Are 60% cheaper socks at Wal Mart worth conceding the alpha metric of national security? No? No. Well, that means that we need to keep the industrial base here, and that means that we have to do something you don't like: move past a binary analysis and recognize that the lowest consumer price is not the simple answer - that there are things more important than the highest possible temporary standard of living.

(2) Welfare costs. The US unemployment rate is 16%. 11% of that is due to the long-term effects of deindustrialization. You express hatred and contempt for poor people a lot. Well, you're going to have lots of poor people dependent on government if you don't have an industrial base producing those consumer goods. You have a choice: pay 60% more for socks at Wal-Mart, or pay higher taxes for more food stamps, more Medicaid, more public housing - more welfare. You act as though these things are not related, but they are directly related. Unemployed people become wards of the state. When you ship your industrial base to China, and ship in 11 million Mexicans, you put all of the Americans who USED TO do those jobs out of work, and onto the welfare rolls. You get socks 60% cheaper, taxes and welfare that are a lot higher, and Chinese aircraft carriers.

You see the 60 cents savings on socka and say it's worth it. I say no.

(3) Idle hands are the Devil's workshop. What exactly happens when 16% of the workforce is permanently unemployed by China? Besides the foreign debt and the welfare rates, you get crime. Lots and lots of crime. And you get obesity, depression, higher medical costs. When people have nothing to do, some turn into diabetic couch potatoes. Others turn into drug dealers and petty criminals. And all of that turns into costs you bear.

Your solution is to gun everybody down and let the poor die. That feels good, but this is your OWN COUNTRYMEN you are speaking of here. People whom you may have to call upon to wear the uniform and fight in wars. The inevitable results of your policies are massive unemployment, massive social costs, a weakened military eligible population, a wrecked budget, and Chinese aircraft carriers.

All to save 60 cents on a pair of socks.

You think it's worth it. More and more Americans disagree with you. And that's why Trump will be the next President, and we'll have that tarriff. We would rather pay 60 cents more for socks, and everything else, then spend the same or more money on welfare, and lose World War III to a greater industrial power that WE made through our short-term focus on short-term consumer profit.

National security means industry, which means full employment, which means lower social welfare costs and lower crime, which means lower taxes. But yes, consumer goods WILL be more expensive. But the extra price will be paid more by what people earned from WORK in those revitalized American factories than it will be by tax dollars.

That's why Trump is right: he sees the bigger picture than you do. You focus on pennies. We focus on national security, jobs, taxes and crime. Prices go down your way, at the expense of national strength, jobs, taxes and crime.

National security and employment are heavily increased our way, and taxes and crime modestly reduced over time...at the price of higher costs of consumer goods and services - a price that is well worth paying considering the alternative.

We are LIVING the alternative right now, and it DOES NOT WORK. We USED TO LIVE the old structure, right through the 1950s, and it DID work. Conservatism is backward looking. That worked. This doesn't. Let's preserve ourselves by following a better model. And paying more for socks.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-12 10:32:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: misterwhite (#14)

Hey. How about if we put a tariff on imported oil equivalent to $2 per gallon of gasoline? This way we can save U.S. drilling jobs.

The emperor wants to slap $10 on em. But he wants to use the money to subsidize more failed solar and wind farms .

tomder55  posted on  2016-02-12 14:13:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 14.

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