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Title: Carrier to relocate Indianapolis manufacturing operations to Mexico, 1,400 jobs affected
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.wthr.com/story/31188372/ ... s-to-mexico-1400-jobs-affected
Published: Feb 12, 2016
Author: WTHR
Post Date: 2016-02-12 09:13:43 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 1915
Comments: 27

INDIANAPOLIS - Carrier has announced plans to relocate its Indianapolis operations to Mexico by 2019, affecting roughly 1,400 jobs.

Carrier manufactures furnaces at a facility on W. Morris St. in Indianapolis. The company plans to relocate over the next three years in three phases.

United Steelworkers 1999 employs about 1,300 members at the Morris Street Carrier plant. Chuck Jones, president of Local 1999, tells WTHR that employees were notified Wednesday morning about the jobs moving to Mexico.

"We did not see it coming. It was a total shock," said Jones.

He said the move ultimately means the loss of 1,300 union jobs that average $20 to $21 per hour.

Mayor Hogsett angered over Carrier move to Mexico

"We know the reason. They want to become more profitable by exploiting Mexican labor," said Jones.

"This facility is not losing money. If it was losing money, I think these things would be understood better. This company just wants to make more," said employee Robert James.

The phase-out is to begin in May of 2017 and will wrap up in 2019.

One Carrier employee with the company 31 years described the move as "a big blow."

While she preferred not to be identified, she said "there was a lot of sadness" and anxiety following the announcement.

"A lot of people don't know what they're going to do," she


Poster Comment:

Screw Carrier. There should be a 200 percent tariff on anything that crosses the border from them assholes.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


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#1. To: Tomder55 (#0)

Traitors and assholes and tards like this news.

I bet you like it too. More jobs leave.

I can't wait until Trump tariffs their ass.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-12   9:14:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: A K A Stone (#0) (Edited)

All this "Free" trade.

Yep, things will be cheaper at Wal-Mart.

But the cost of the unemployment, food stamps and Medicaid for 800 of those 1400 families hit by the layoffs will be more than the cost savings at Wal- Mart.

Trump is right about trade. So is Sanders. So was Perot.

America became the world's number one industrial power by 1890 BECAUSE OF a protective tarriff.

Of course the moneymen hate protectionism - it makes labor more expensive...but more expensive labor means a lot less welfare.

I'm from Detroit. I watched Detroit die due to "free" trade. It killed the Southern textile industries. It killed domestic TV and electronic manufacturers.

And open borders drove Americans out of construction (except for the moneymen, naturally).

And where do all of those people who USED to work hard and pay taxes go? Some get McJobs. Millions more go on unemployment, then welfare.

Meanwhile, Communist China builds a new aircraft carrier every year just from the INTEREST on the debt America owes them, because we borrowed all that money to buy their cheap shit at Wal-Mart.

Trump is dead right on trade, and if we don't get trade and immigration under control, you and I are not going to have a national home in which to fight with each other.

Remember the Klingon and Kirk in that old Star Trek episode: "Only a fool fights in a burning house. Cease hostilities."

We'll fight later, you and I. Right now, we need to keep our country ours. And that means Trump.

It's true, Trump is not a "conservative" as currently defined, on trade.

But if "conservative" means "looking at the past", the American government was FUNDED by the protective trade tarriff (and land sales) until 1900. Our industry was BUILT because we had a protective tarriff that shielded it so the low-cost British, later Germans, couldn't destroy it.

Control of borders means control of the flow of people and goods across them. It's why we have front doors on our houses. And Trump (and to his credit, Sanders) is the only one who says this obvious fact.

Hey, Cruz, Rubio, Jeb!, hate the idea of borders and controls on trade? Then tke the front door off your house, m'kay?

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-12   9:21:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

Meanwhile, Communist China builds a new aircraft carrier every year just from the INTEREST on the debt America owes them

First you are misinformed. China doesn't even have an aircraft carrier yet.

Next you are making stuff up, lying again.

You lied and said that the interest we pay was used to build their aircraft carrier. that doesn't exist yet, So they couldn't build one every year.

You must have known how much the aircraft carrier cost since you made the claim.

How much did it cost?

How much was the interest we paid them?

Quit making stuff up it diminishes you.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-12   9:30:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

It's true, Trump is not a "conservative" as currently defined, on trade.

Trump has lots of conservative positions. He is no liberal.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-12   9:31:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: A K A Stone (#0)

"He said the move ultimately means the loss of 1,300 union jobs that average $20 to $21 per hour."

Plus another $30 an hour in benefits. Now they'll get zero. Way to look after your members, Local 1999.

misterwhite  posted on  2016-02-12   9:33:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: A K A Stone (#0)

"There should be a 200 percent tariff on anything that crosses the border from them assholes."

Two questions. Who gets that tariff money? And who pays it?

I don't like either answer.

misterwhite  posted on  2016-02-12   9:36:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: misterwhite (#6)

Two questions. Who gets that tariff money? And who pays it?

The government gets the money. The customer pays it.

Or they but something else made in America that does't have a tariff.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-12   9:37:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

"Our industry was BUILT because we had a protective tariff"

You manufacture a product which you can sell (with a good profit) for $10. Your competitor (who manufactures overseas) can sell it for $6 but our "protective tariff" drives up his import cost to $20.

How long will it take you to figure out that you can raise your price to, say, $18?

misterwhite  posted on  2016-02-12   9:45:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: misterwhite (#6)

Who gets...who pays

The government, at first. Pretty soon, nobody. Because the industries build factories within the US to have access to the US markets and avoid the tarriffs. And this employs Americans.

Back when American industry was becoming the biggest in the world, we did it behind the wall of a tarriff.

The tarriff ended up hitting luxury goods, because the cheaper stuff just didn't get imported. It was made here. And that's the point.

China won't pay the tarriff. They'll stop shipping the goods. We need the goods, and factories will reopen here to supply the demand.

American companies will repatriate the money to build the stuff here.

That employs Americans, shrinks the welfare rolls, empties the prisons, causes the crime to drop, and generally makes everything better.

The China price makes things cheaper at Wal-Mart...where it has to be bought with food stamps because the Americans who would have made it are out of work. Bad deal.

Keep out the foreign goods and lower the tax barriers to the repatriation of American money abroad, and watch American industry, and employment rise from the ashes, while unemployment, welfare, food stamps and crime all plummet.

THAT is what the tarriff does. Yes, the prices are higher at Wal Mart. In fact, other stores can COMPETE with WalMart, because Wal Mart can't use the China Price to put them out of business anymore. That means more employment at more businesses, more activity, more competition.

Prices are higher, yes, but that is more than offset by getting rid of most of the welfare rolls - because people will have JOBS again.

The financiers will lose. The workers will win. And that's better for the budget, and better for American power and peace.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-12   9:51:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: A K A Stone (#7)

"The government gets the money. The customer pays it."

Looks a lot like a tax increase, doesn't it? One that you actually seem happy to pay. The government loves people with your attitude.

"Or they but something else made in America that does't have a tariff."

Sure. For the same inflated price. Meaning I'm paying more money simply to cover union salaries and benefits. And even more next year to prevent the union from going on strike and I can't get any product at all.

If you like this scenario, move to Illinois where I live and you can experience firsthand how well this system works in the public sector.

misterwhite  posted on  2016-02-12   9:56:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: misterwhite (#8)

Historically, when we had the tarriff, we built the stuff here because it was cheaper to built it and transport it here than to buy it from abroad and pay the tarriff.

Also, we don't have to have the same tarriff for everybody.

There's no reason we can't have free trade with, say, England and Holland. Their social welfare is more expensive than ours, and their environmental protections are higher.

We don't have to have a trade war with the world. Western Europe is comparable to the US. They're not putting us out of jobs, because the cost structures of civilization are similar. There's no reason we can't maintain free trade with Europe and Australia. Open, transparent systems where they insist on worker and environmental protections.

We can tailor it to mean that we don't have to compete with Chinese slaves.

And once we're working well again, if we want to favor a PARTICULAR country, to, say, reduce immigration pressure, we could decide that our Most Favored poorrer nation for those purposes is Mexico. We could allow near-shoring, some factories in Mexico, to keep people there.

Putting our factories in Communist China beggars us and empowers our enemy, for cheap consumer goods. It's stupid, except for the financiers, like Goldman Sachs, who funds Cruz's life.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-12   9:56:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Vicomte13 (#9)

"Prices are higher, yes,"

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

misterwhite  posted on  2016-02-12   9:57:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: misterwhite (#10)

If you like this scenario, move to Illinois where I live and you can experience firsthand how well this system works in the public sector.

There are no tariffs on the public sector in Illinois.

I already pay extra to Buy American products much of the time.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-12   10:01:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Vicomte13 (#11)

"We can tailor it to mean that we don't have to compete with Chinese slaves."

Slaves? They're earning more than they ever have and raising their standard of living. And every American benefits from the lower price.

"The U.S. has seen at least 91,000 job cuts across the energy industry since prices collapsed last summer, according to Continental Resources ..."

Hey. How about if we put a tariff on imported oil equivalent to $2 per gallon of gasoline? This way we can save U.S. drilling jobs.

misterwhite  posted on  2016-02-12   10:09:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

FREE TRADE SUCKS, for the USA.

It is great for the other nations, and our politicians getting their kick backs.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

There are no Carthaginian terrorists.

President Obama is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people. --Clint Eastwood

Stoner  posted on  2016-02-12   10:16:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: A K A Stone (#13)

"I already pay extra to Buy American products much of the time."

I take the money I save and give it to charity rather than some union thug.

Trump pays $15.50 for each of his "Make America Great Again" hats. They're "Made in the USA", of course. They have to be.

You can buy the same hat, made overseas, for $5. It's a stupid hat, for crying out loud, not some intricate space shuttle part.

Perhaps, just perhaps, there are some products that we simply can't afford to make in the U.S. because no one would buy them?

misterwhite  posted on  2016-02-12   10:18:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: misterwhite (#14)

White, you're looking at things in a very simplistic and short-sighted way. "Lowest price right now - good."

We're talking about the national economy here, and there at least three interrelated factors, all of which matter.

(1) Industrial power. Why did England edge out France in their centuries-long competition at sea? It went back and forth until industrialization in the 19th Century. Then, the British industrial base was bigger than the French, and the British were able to produce more ships at a faster pace than the French. With a larger population, the French could not keep up. Why are India and China DEVELOPING economies, instead of world rulers? Because the Europeans got to industrialization first.

Why did America win both World Wars? Superior industrial power.

What you advocate - free trade - has gutted the American industrial base in favor of Communist China.

So, now, in shooting war, who can build more metal things, faster? They can. They have the plants to do it, they have the trained people to do it, they have the money to do it, and the have the current experience to do it. In a war of production with Communist China, we are turning into France and they are turning into Britain.

Is that what you want? Are 60% cheaper socks at Wal Mart worth conceding the alpha metric of national security? No? No. Well, that means that we need to keep the industrial base here, and that means that we have to do something you don't like: move past a binary analysis and recognize that the lowest consumer price is not the simple answer - that there are things more important than the highest possible temporary standard of living.

(2) Welfare costs. The US unemployment rate is 16%. 11% of that is due to the long-term effects of deindustrialization. You express hatred and contempt for poor people a lot. Well, you're going to have lots of poor people dependent on government if you don't have an industrial base producing those consumer goods. You have a choice: pay 60% more for socks at Wal-Mart, or pay higher taxes for more food stamps, more Medicaid, more public housing - more welfare. You act as though these things are not related, but they are directly related. Unemployed people become wards of the state. When you ship your industrial base to China, and ship in 11 million Mexicans, you put all of the Americans who USED TO do those jobs out of work, and onto the welfare rolls. You get socks 60% cheaper, taxes and welfare that are a lot higher, and Chinese aircraft carriers.

You see the 60 cents savings on socka and say it's worth it. I say no.

(3) Idle hands are the Devil's workshop. What exactly happens when 16% of the workforce is permanently unemployed by China? Besides the foreign debt and the welfare rates, you get crime. Lots and lots of crime. And you get obesity, depression, higher medical costs. When people have nothing to do, some turn into diabetic couch potatoes. Others turn into drug dealers and petty criminals. And all of that turns into costs you bear.

Your solution is to gun everybody down and let the poor die. That feels good, but this is your OWN COUNTRYMEN you are speaking of here. People whom you may have to call upon to wear the uniform and fight in wars. The inevitable results of your policies are massive unemployment, massive social costs, a weakened military eligible population, a wrecked budget, and Chinese aircraft carriers.

All to save 60 cents on a pair of socks.

You think it's worth it. More and more Americans disagree with you. And that's why Trump will be the next President, and we'll have that tarriff. We would rather pay 60 cents more for socks, and everything else, then spend the same or more money on welfare, and lose World War III to a greater industrial power that WE made through our short-term focus on short-term consumer profit.

National security means industry, which means full employment, which means lower social welfare costs and lower crime, which means lower taxes. But yes, consumer goods WILL be more expensive. But the extra price will be paid more by what people earned from WORK in those revitalized American factories than it will be by tax dollars.

That's why Trump is right: he sees the bigger picture than you do. You focus on pennies. We focus on national security, jobs, taxes and crime. Prices go down your way, at the expense of national strength, jobs, taxes and crime.

National security and employment are heavily increased our way, and taxes and crime modestly reduced over time...at the price of higher costs of consumer goods and services - a price that is well worth paying considering the alternative.

We are LIVING the alternative right now, and it DOES NOT WORK. We USED TO LIVE the old structure, right through the 1950s, and it DID work. Conservatism is backward looking. That worked. This doesn't. Let's preserve ourselves by following a better model. And paying more for socks.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-12   10:32:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: misterwhite (#16)

"I already pay extra to Buy American products much of the time." I take the money I save and give it to charity rather than some union thug.

I'm talking about tools mostly. It is penny wise and pound foolish to buy some of those foreign products that are "cheaper".

Also I don't believe you that when you buy something foreign. You look at the price difference the donate to charity. I'm not buying it.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-12   10:36:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Vicomte13 (#17)

91,000 jobs. Let's raise the price of gasoline to $3.49 per gallon and put them back to work! We'll save billions on Medicaid, welfare, food stamps and the alpha metric of national security.

Whaddya say?

misterwhite  posted on  2016-02-12   10:40:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: A K A Stone (#18)

"You look at the price difference the donate to charity. I'm not buying it."

Fine. I don't buy your statement either.

misterwhite  posted on  2016-02-12   10:42:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: A K A Stone (#0)

Carrier to relocate Indianapolis manufacturing operations to Mexico, 1,400 jobs affected

Yup, another company jumps on the bandwagon. That's going to put Indianapolis on welfare along with Detroit.

rlk  posted on  2016-02-12   11:36:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Vicomte13 (#9) (Edited)

who pays ?

If there are punitive tariffs then the consumer pays .

Corporations are already looking at hits from both ends. The move to $15 min wage means that union workers will be looking for $35-$40 for the $20 they are making now (and don't think the unions don't know it . That is why they are supporting $15 minimum wage ) . And who takes the hit then ? The company either move toward more efficiency moves like replacing workers with robotics or hiring fewer workers

Then they contend with an environment for business that isn't friendly ..... and all I see is hostility towards business with the threats of more taxes and a tougher regulatory environment ....you think the emperor hasn't been at war with the Heating and HVAC industry ?

http://www.independentsentinel.com/in-epas-war-on-air-conditioning-they-will- mandate-flammable-substitutes/

http://www.achrnews.com/articles/131720-top-regulatory-issues-of--

You will continue to see more companies bailing out . Don't call me the traitor when it's the government's policy to treat companies like the enemy .

"If you do not take an interest in the affairs of your government, then you are doomed to live under the rule of fools." Plato

tomder55  posted on  2016-02-12   14:05:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: All, misterwhite, AKA Stone (#22)

ping

"If you do not take an interest in the affairs of your government, then you are doomed to live under the rule of fools." Plato

tomder55  posted on  2016-02-12   14:08:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: misterwhite (#14)

Hey. How about if we put a tariff on imported oil equivalent to $2 per gallon of gasoline? This way we can save U.S. drilling jobs.

The emperor wants to slap $10 on em. But he wants to use the money to subsidize more failed solar and wind farms .

"If you do not take an interest in the affairs of your government, then you are doomed to live under the rule of fools." Plato

tomder55  posted on  2016-02-12   14:13:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Vicomte13 (#17)

Conservatism is backward looking. That worked.

Conservatism got us the autos we drive, the houses we live in, the hobbies we engage in, and the entertaiment we enjoy. That's a pretty good record.

rlk  posted on  2016-02-12   14:24:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Vicomte13 (#11)

Also, we don't have to have the same tarriff for everybody.

There's no reason we can't have free trade with, say, England and Holland. Their social welfare is more expensive than ours, and their environmental protections are higher.

We don't have to have a trade war with the world. Western Europe is comparable to the US. They're not putting us out of jobs, because the cost structures of civilization are similar. There's no reason we can't maintain free trade with Europe and Australia. Open, transparent systems where they insist on worker and environmental protections.

We can tailor it to mean that we don't have to compete with Chinese slaves.

And once we're working well again, if we want to favor a PARTICULAR country, to, say, reduce immigration pressure, we could decide that our Most Favored poorrer nation for those purposes is Mexico. We could allow near-shoring, some factories in Mexico, to keep people there.

What part of your free trade agreements do you not see here? only the tarriffs. but this is a web of your own making. You wanted low tarriffs so other nations would respond and allow you access to their markets, Nations like mine lowered our tarriffs and lost our industries, now your policy has come full circle and you are bleating. Tarriffs arn't the answer but local preference is. What this means is your government contracts mandate a particular level of local content and this can be extended into locally sold goods also through tax concessions.

Go ahead start a trade war, you will only hurt yourself

paraclete  posted on  2016-02-12   16:45:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: A K A Stone (#0)

Carrier manufactures furnaces at a facility on W. Morris St. in Indianapolis. The company plans to relocate over the next three years in three phases.

It seems like some big wig corporate pencil pusher thinks this will work to beat the competition and it always fails. They will nearly collapse under warranty work and finial admit it did not work and come back to some non union state.

What this really is, is the great migration of northern people heading south(while illegals replace them) to get a living wage job. To bad they do not realize its their lifestyle and voting habits that got them in the position to have to move in the first place. If people would realize that government is not the answer but the problem!

Justified  posted on  2016-02-12   17:12:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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