Watching The Cops
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Title: Justin Amash on Tamir Rice Outcome: Cops Don’t Deserve Extra Leniency
Source:
Reason
URL Source: https://reason.com/blog/2015/12/29/ ... ash-on-tamir-rice-outcome-cops
Published: Dec 31, 2015
Author: Robby Soave
Post Date: 2015-12-31 05:36:53 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 3565
Comments: 14
Of course authorities and adjudicators thought the killing was justified—they are instructed to ignore the victim’s perspective, and only consider whether inaction could have conceivably put the officers’ lives at risk, in the imaginations of the officers. That’s the legal standard, so it’s hardly a surprise it was obeyed. But not everyone is thrilled with a standard that tilts the scales of justice so decisively in the cops’ favor nearly every single time. Libertarian-leaning Republican Rep. Justin Amash had this to say about the Tamir Rice decision on Twitter: Policing cannot be both risk-free and effective. Officers must be patient, put own lives at risk to responsibly manage dangerous situations. Police should not be given more leniency when it comes to self-defense than any other person. I also raised on Twitter yesterday. In a sane world, one might expect the cops to receive less leniency than ordinary citizens in cases where they kill a harmless, unarmed boy. After all, they are trained to successfully navigate tense situations: it’s literally their job to go to great lengths to keep people alive. We might even expect the police—again, the people we pay to take on some degree of risk—to use a different calculus than the average person when weighing threats to their own lives against threats to others. As Jamelle Bouie writes at Slate: Part of policing is risk. Not just the inevitable risk of the unknown, but voluntary risk. We ask police to “serve and protect” the broad public, which—at times—means accepting risk when necessary to defuse dangerous situations and protect lives, innocent or otherwise. It’s why we give them weapons and the authority to use them; why we compensate them with decent salaries and generous pensions; why we hold them in high esteem and why we give them wide berth in procedure and practice. What we see with Tamir Rice—and what we’ve seen in shootings across the country—is what happens when the officer’s safety supercedes the obligation to accept risk. If “going home” is what matters—and risk is unacceptable—then the instant use of lethal force makes sense. It’s the only thing that guarantees complete safety from harm. It’s also antithetical to the call to “serve and protect.” But it’s the new norm. Indeed. And as long as the norm prevails, there will be more Tamir Rices—and more grieving mothers deprived of justice. The lives of the agents of the state matter infinitely more than the lives of regular people. Why do the police get away with crimes ordinary citizens would go to jail for?
Tamir Rice
The grand jury’s decision not to charge either of the two police officers who killed 12-year-old Tamir Rice in a Cleveland park last year is as frustrating as it was predetermined.
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#1. To: Deckard (#0)
I tend to agree with this,but in THIS case,didn't the kid have a fake gun on him that he pointed at the police? When you go around pointing what looks like guns at police or anyone else,you pretty much have to expect somebody is going to shoot you. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
He didn't get a chance to point the toy gun at the cops - they opened fire within seconds of arriving at the scene. In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much He modified the gun by removing the DayGlo orange tip identifying it as a toy. Why did he do that Deckard? Why did his grieving parents allow him to do that Deckard? Why was he running around the park pointing this gun at people Deckard, scaring them, resulting in the 911 call? You're quick to point the finger at the cops while conveniently ignoring the actions of others.
"A photo released today by the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's Office shows what it says is a real gun next to the replica gun 12-year-old Tamir Rice had the day he was shot dead by a Cleveland, Ohio, police officer." --ABC News
And you have 2 seconds to decide which one is real. Or you die. A Grand Jury (known to indict a ham sandwich) ruled the shooting justified. Time to move on.
I wonder what the author would have wanted the police to do if this kid was pointing his gun at the author's wife and kids or grandkids looking as if he was going to shoot them and ignoring the police orders to drop the gun? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Nah, they'd have smoked that kid even if he had the orange day-glo tip. That cop just wanted to earn bragging rights among his buddies.
And if had been a real gun and he smoked a cop, you and your comrades would be cheering yourselves hoarse.
Another Trayvon Martin bites the dust ... do another shout out at the state of nation address --- ahmed too !
If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !
Apples and oranges. In this case the kid with the toy gun didn't even get the opportunity to comply with any such orders (if any were even given) since he was gunned down within seconds of the cops arriving on the scene. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the facts of this case. In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much Of course. I always root for the underdog.
The toy and real one look identicle.
"Rice was shot and killed at Cudell Recreation Center in Cleveland after a 911 caller reported a male in the area waving a gun. The officers say they believed the gun was real when they arrived on scene. They said they ordered Rice to drop the weapon before Loehmann fired." http://fox8.com/2015/12/29/cleveland-mayor-to-make-remarks-following-tamir- rice-grand-jury-decision/
Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the facts of this case. If any were given? Perhaps you should take your own advice. "Tamir Rice's death: A lawful tragedy By Philip Holloway, CNN Legal Analyst Updated 6:43 PM ET, Mon December 28, 2015 Source: CNN Story highlights Philip Holloway: It is tragic that a deadly misunderstanding led to Tamir Rice losing his life Police conduct can only be judged based on an the standard of objective reasonableness Editor's Note: Philip Holloway, a CNN legal analyst, is a criminal defense lawyer who heads his own firm in Cobb County, Georgia. A former prosecutor and adjunct professor of criminal justice, he is former president of the Cobb County Bar Association's criminal law section. Follow him on Twitter: @PhilHollowayEsq. Sheriff Scott Berry of the Oconee County Sheriff's Office in Georgia contributed to this piece. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of the author. (CNN)—On November 22, 2014, Cleveland Police Officers Timothy Loehmann and Frank Garmback were dispatched to a call involving a person with a pistol outside a recreation center. As a result, 12-year-old Tamir Rice, who was in possession of fake or replica of a Colt 1911 semi-automatic pistol, was shot by officer Loemann and died from his wounds. The tragic incident set off a firestorm of public criticism. Ultimately, a Cleveland judge issued a nonbinding order on June 11 stating that there was probable cause for the district attorney to bring criminal charges against the officers, noting that he was "thunderstruck" by how quickly the officer employed lethal force. Many people incorrectly believe that police should wait and see what someone is going to do with a weapon before using any force. If that were the law or even police policy, then there would be lots more dead police officers because criminals would realize that they get to take the first shot. Prosecutor: "Perfect storm of human error" killed Tamir Rice tamir rice shooting grand jury saw enhanced video casarez sot nr_00005104 Related Video: Prosecutor: "Perfect storm of human error" killed Tamir Rice 03:35 Two days later, likely in response to the judge's order, the Cuyahoga County Sheriff's Department investigative file was released by the district attorney. This case file, which was not available to the judge, includes some vital details which, in all likelihood, led to the grand jury's decision not to accuse any officer of any criminal wrongdoing in Rice's tragic death. The starting place to examine any instance of police use of force is the law. The law that applies is provided by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case of Graham v. Conner. Grand jury saw enhanced video of Tamir Rice shooting tamir rice shooting grand jury saw enhanced video casarez sot nr_00005104 Related Video: Grand jury saw enhanced video of Tamir Rice shooting 01:28 The case specifically provides that any use of force incident must be "objectively reasonable" under the totality of the circumstances and that "[t]he "reasonableness" of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight." It also clarified "the 'reasonableness' inquiry in an excessive force case is an objective one: the question is whether the officers' actions are 'objectively reasonable' in light of the facts and circumstances confronting them, without regard to their underlying intent or motivation." In light of this ruling, let's turn to the specific facts: the totality of the circumstances as considered by the grand jury and outlined in the official investigation that support the shooting as legally justified. 1. The dispatcher advised the officers "Cudell Rec Center... there's a black male sitting on a swing pulling a gun out of his pants and pointing it at people." It is important to note here that the officers here did not know that the 911 caller had informed the dispatcher that the gun was "probably fake" or that Rice may have been a juvenile. 2. Tamir Rice, while being a mere 12 years old, appeared much older. He weighed 195 pounds at the time and both responding officers believed he was an adult as did officers who responded after the shooting. 3. As the officers pulled up to confront Rice, surveillance video of the shooting verifies that Rice could be seen "pulling up his outer garment with both hands near the right side of his waist." This is consistent with Loemann's contention that he saw Rice reaching for his gun. 4. After firing two shots at Rice, Officer Loemann "stumbled and fell backward, regained his footing, and found cover behind [the police vehicle]." This is objective evidence that Officer Loemann truly believed he was in fact dealing with an armed and dangerous individual. Otherwise, he would not have felt the need to seek a position of cover. 5. Upon realizing the injuries to Rice, the officers asked for the responding ambulance to "step it up" -- meaning to expedite their response to the scene. This shows that there was no malice, ill will or indifference to human life on the part of the officers. 6. Multiple veteran officers, including the responding officers, believed the gun that Rice possessed was in fact real and Rice himself had been warned, upon receipt of the gun, to be careful with it because it looked so real. The bottom line is that the shooting was objectively legal in the totality of the circumstances. Most of those circumstances were unknown to the judge who ruled in an advisory opinion that there was probable cause to charge the officers in the shooting. But one must analyze from the vantage point of the cop on scene who has to make a life or death decision in a split second. Furthermore, I think the release of district attorney's investigative file was in response to the judge's ruling and suggests that he did not want this grand jury to indict the officers. A competent and responsible prosecutor should more concerned with "proof beyond a reasonable doubt," the standard needed to convict, rather than the much lower standard of "probable cause" needed to arrest someone. The officers who were involved were dispatched to a "man with a gun" call and were advised that he was pointing it at people. They also were not told he may be a juvenile. He was almost 200 pounds and appeared to them to be an adult according to the report. Every officer who saw the fake gun thought it was real when they first saw it. While pundits and those predisposed to believe that law enforcement officers as a group recklessly and wantonly shoot, choke, hit or arrest a person for personal or other more subjective reasons, this was clearly not the case in Cleveland on the day Tamir Rice tragically lost his life. It is easy to sit comfortably and watch video, or listen to a four-second sound bite of an interview and reach a conclusion that the police were wrong to use deadly force. But in our country, that is not the legal test, and criminal charges are not to be brought for political or emotional reasons. The Supreme Court wisely and judiciously decided in Graham v. Conner case and concluded that police conduct can be judged based only on an the standard of objective reasonableness. In other words, what matters is what the officer(s) on-scene knew or believed at the time during what is always a fluid, dynamic and ever-changing situation. For the officer to learn later that Tamir Rice was only 12 is not a relevant legal factor. His behavior and what the police knew and could observe at that time are the only legally relevant circumstances upon which they are to be judged. To suggest that police, before using force, should carefully interview anyone to determine their age, family circumstances or other factors they can't possibly be expected to know is a standard that no one can live by, cops or civilians. Likewise, we can't expect the police to dodge the first bullet or two before allowing them to use deadly force to protect themselves or others. Tamir Rice tragically was waving a gun around and in the words of a witness "acting all gangster." When the officers approached him, instead of holding his hands out or merely standing there, the nearly 6-foot-tall, 195- pound Rice chose to lift his shirt and make the objective motions any police officer would conclude to mean he was going for his gun. The true tragedy in this case is that this was a deadly misunderstanding that led to Rice losing his life -- fake gun or age notwithstanding. If we expect police to obey and support the Constitution of these United States, then it stands to reason that we in turn must judge all their actions based on the Constitution as interpreted by the courts. To pick and choose the Constitution as a buffet where you can select what pleases you and reject that which doesn't isn't the foundation of law our country was built upon. Police work can be gritty, ugly and nothing like how it is portrayed on the big screen. It is real life with real life consequences. All reasonable people grieve for Tamir Rice and for his family. All indications are that Cleveland police do as well." потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Part of policing is risk. Not just the inevitable risk of the unknown, but voluntary risk. We ask police to “serve and protect” the broad public, which—at times—means accepting risk when necessary to defuse dangerous situations and protect lives, innocent or otherwise. It’s why we give them weapons and the authority to use them; why we compensate them with decent salaries and generous pensions; why we hold them in high esteem and why we give them wide berth in procedure and practice.
#2. To: sneakypete (#1)
I tend to agree with this,but in THIS case,didn't the kid have a fake gun on him that he pointed at the police?
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#3. To: Deckard (#2)
"He didn't get a chance to point the toy gun at the cops"
#4. To: misterwhite (#3)
(Edited)
#5. To: Roscoe (#4)
#6. To: Deckard, All (#0)
Of course authorities and adjudicators thought the killing was justified—they are instructed to ignore the victim’s perspective, and only consider whether inaction could have conceivably put the officers’ lives at risk, in the imaginations of the officers.
#7. To: misterwhite (#3)
#8. To: Logsplitter (#7)
they'd have smoked that kid even if he had the orange day-glo tip.
#9. To: Deckard (#0)
#10. To: SOSO (#6)
I wonder what the author would have wanted the police to do if this kid was pointing his gun at the author's wife and kids or grandkids looking as if he was going to shoot them and ignoring the police orders to drop the gun?
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#11. To: Roscoe (#8)
#12. To: Roscoe (#4)
"A photo released today by the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's Office shows what it says is a real gun next to the replica gun 12-year-old Tamir Rice had the day he was shot dead by a Cleveland, Ohio, police officer."
#13. To: Deckard (#10)
Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the facts of this case.
#14. To: Deckard (#10)
In this case the kid with the toy gun didn't even get the opportunity to comply with any such orders (if any were even given)
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