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Title: Meet Donald Trump, the anti-Christian
Source: PennLive
URL Source: http://www.pennlive.com/opinion/201 ... donald_trump_the_anti-chr.html
Published: Dec 20, 2015
Author: Christine M. Flowers
Post Date: 2015-12-20 18:01:11 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 1216
Comments: 10

This week I spent an unseasonably warm evening at church listening to kids sing Christmas songs when I suddenly found myself tearing up.

During an inspired rendition of "Do You Hear What I Hear?" I was overwhelmed with a sense of gratitude that these children could distract me in their sweet, showy innocence from the meanness and insanity of adults.

For a moment, the pageant cleansed me of the nuclear poison caused by Donald Trump. The past weeks have been difficult ones for people who don't fit easily into any tidy political category. I certainly don't.

On the one hand, I hate people who take offense at the drop of a hat. It's ridiculous to dance around the fact that the massacre in San Bernardino was executed by a radicalized U.S. citizen and his jihadist wife. They were Muslim.

On the other hand, the radiologist who fought mightily to save my father's life three decades ago and who cried at his funeral was also Muslim.

So are many people I call friends.

So are some arrogant apologists at CAIR.

So are the soldiers on the ground in the Middle East fighting ISIS.

So are most of its victims.

Religion is relevant, then. But it's not determinative. And the idea that we're going to applaud someone who thinks you can bar an entire group of believers from the United States is frightening to me.

I'm more afraid of the people at Trump rallies who think he's an immigration and Constitutional Scholar, and are willing to draw barbed wire in front of a Muslim seeking admission.

They parrot talking points they've heard on the radio and television, and lack any sense of doubt or humility. They call themselves Americans. I'd call them something else.

I remember seven years ago, when Sarah Palin was being ridiculed by liberals for being stupid. It was beyond offensive, and showed that progressives like to demean the intelligence of their philosophical opponents.

I vowed then that I would never do that. But I will also not ignore that some people, in order to maintain the integrity of their values, will not listen to facts. They will integrate opinion into their arguments, and convince themselves that their beliefs are objectively true.

They will also report poll statistics from polls with which they agree, and ignore the statistics from those that run counter to their preconceptions.

You will try and discuss with them, calmly, the issues. They will take offense, and respond with a certitude that stuns, or at least cuts off the conversation.

If you say you can't exclude an entire group of people based on the way they pray to God, regardless of the deformation of their faith by others, you hear "Well Roosevelt did it, with the Japanese."

Actually, Roosevelt interned a lot of people, didn't exclude them, but he also refused to accept Jewish refugees from the Holocaust, and set up camps for Italian and German Americans as well.

This was not based on religion, and this was during wartime, but it is now seen as having been the singular dark mark on an otherwise admirable political life.

This is not an example to bolster the righteousness of Trump's position.

And still we end up with a low threshold debate about all Muslims being potential terrorists so we have to keep them out. And the buffoon with the hairdo gets standings ovations.

That's why I had moist eyes at the Christmas concert. Those sweet, high voices were inviting me to listen to the message of grace, of welcome, a Christian message of hope.

And all I could feel was gratitude that these babies weren't yet old enough to hate the stranger more than they loved their neighbor, mixed with regret that they would have to grow up, possibly under a President Trump.

Hence, the tears.

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#1. To: Willie Green (#0)

"This week I spent an unseasonably warm evening at church listening to kids sing Christmas songs"

And thanks to our PC society, that's the only place you'll hear them. Do you think these innocent children would be allowed to sing them at school? Or in the town square? Or in a city park?

No they wouldn't. And Trump had nothing to do with that. In fact, he'd like to change that.

"who thinks you can bar an entire group of believers"

Islam is not only a religion but a governmental system under Sharia law. You want that? If so, then you'll never hear those innocents singing those songs anywhere. Idiot.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-12-20   18:48:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Willie Green (#0)

"I'm more afraid of the people at Trump rallies who think he's an immigration and Constitutional Scholar, and are willing to draw barbed wire in front of a Muslim seeking admission."

Nobody thinks he's an immigration and Constitutional Scholar. But he's 100% correct on the constitutionality of barring Muslims and deporting illegal aliens.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-12-20   18:52:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Willie Green (#0)

On the one hand, I hate people who take offense at the drop of a hat. It's ridiculous to dance around the fact that the massacre in San Bernardino was executed by a radicalized U.S. citizen and his jihadist wife. They were Muslim.

On the other hand, the radiologist who fought mightily to save my father's life three decades ago and who cried at his funeral was also Muslim. So are many people I call friends.

So are some arrogant apologists at CAIR.

So are the soldiers on the ground in the Middle East fighting ISIS.

So are most of its victims.

Ask people at the trade towers how they feel about the holy war against "Christians"! Oh wait you can't because they are dead!!!!!!!!!!!

Bleeding hearts can do so much damage in the name of good that one can never recover from it. Don't believe me just try asking the 3000 plus people that were murdered by islamic people on 9/11!

Its time to stop the madness of progressive upbringing! If a group declares war on you then its probably a good thing to stop letting them into your home and treating them like family as the plot to murder you and rape your children!!!!

It use to be a privilege to be called an American now its just a joke heard around the world thanks to progressives running the big show.

To bad all the progressives could not just find their way to the muddled east and hug a terrorist! Im sure they will not harm you!

Justified  posted on  2015-12-20   19:05:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Willie Green (#0) (Edited)

This was not based on religion, and this was during wartime, but it is now seen as having been the singular dark mark on an otherwise admirable political life.

Cry me a river! This is war, just becuase it isn't been fought the way thw WWs were fought doesn't mean it isn't a war, this war has been going on since 1990 in one form or another and it has escalated so that now it is being fought in many countries. What you fail to realise is that the enemy is Islam and because we cannot know the beliefs of any muslim, for the moment we have to accept they may be influenced by wahhabbist beliefs and propaganda which exist wherever muslims live.

The muslim mindset includes the idea of jihad, an idea that any religious leader can call upon muslims everywhere to rise up and fight against non muslims. This is why Trump is right about muslims and I applaud that he has the courage to say so.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/why-arent-the-arab- nations-fighting-against-isis/news-story/e93735b85de675b26459aeea9512c395

ITS brazen, brutal attacks and callous disregard for human life has made it public enemy number one, with the West vowing to do all it can to defeat Islamic State.

But while Western allies have increased their military campaigns against the terrorist group, those in neighbouring Arab nations, seemingly better-placed to weed them out, appear to have dialled down their efforts.

In recent weeks, France and the UK increased air strikes, while the US revealed it had sent in a Special Forces team to take out the insurgents.

Countries such as Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, on the other hand, have launched just one mission a month against IS targets, while Bahrain and Jordan have completely stopped, according to CNN.

This week, however, it appeared Arab nations were finally coming to the table after Saudi Arabia announced it had formed a military coalition of 34 Islamic countries to combat terrorism.

Saudi Defence Minister Mohammad bin Salman Al Saud said the alliance would not just confront the Islamic State, but “any terrorist group in front of us”.

A joint operations centre would be set up in the Saudi capital of Riyadh and would work with other international bodies to combat terrorism, it was also revealed.

But that’s the extent of the details.

And according to Bob Bowker, adjunct professor at the Centre for Arab and Islamic Studies at Australian National University, that’s about all we are likely to get.

Mr Bowker is a former diplomat who served as Australia’s ambassador to Egypt (1989-92) and Jordan (2005-08).

He told news.com.au he did not believe this new coalition would have much bite.

“It’s basically an effort to demonstrate that the Saudis are concerned, to mobilise support in opposition to terrorism,” he explained. “[Saudi Arabia] are on the receiving end of terrorism as well, but seem to control it better than most.

“But [the coalition] really doesn’t amount to anything practical or of operational significance especially when the details have yet to be worked out.

“It’s simply an invitation to the countries to put up their hand and say ‘yes we would be willing in principle to support the fight against terrorism’. Well, doesn’t everyone?

“The prospect of any meaningful military activity on the strength of 34 co- operating Islamic nations is pretty remote.”

WHY AREN’T ARAB NATIONS DOING MORE TO STOP ISLAMIC STATE?

That’s not an easy question to answer.

But Mr Bowker said it basically comes down to Iran.

“The reality is that Islamic State is seen in the region as less of a problem than the prospect of an ascendant Iran,” he explained.

“The primary underlying concern as far as the future of the regional security situation is that they (Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Jordan, UAE) regard Iran as being intent upon hegemony over the Persian Gulf region and maintaining its primacy in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.

“Now Islamic State, while it does pose a threat to each of the Arab states surrounding Iraq and Syria, is nevertheless seen as a longer term problem and one which can be contained within those countries, in Syria and Iraq, where it currently operates, provided that forces that are opposed to Islamic State and also to the Syrian regime are viable.

“The Saudis and Emiratis are providing material assistance to the jihadist elements within Syria in pursuit of a desire to oust the Syrian regime.

“Their concern about IS, while a real concern, will continue to take a back seat until such time they have reduced the threat of Iran by removing it as a principle player in the region, and by removing the Assad regime in Syria, providing that Islamic State forces do not overthrow the government in Baghdad.

“They are prepared to see the Americans carry the principle burden there.”

Mr Bowker, who has written several books on the tensions in Egypt and the Middle East, also said Saudi Arabia, Iran and other surrounding Arab nations were more concerned about the situation in Yemen.

He explained that Yemen, which is in the middle of a civil war, geographically poses a greater threat than Syria.

Earlier this year Houthi rebel forces tried to overthrow the Yemeni government but failed to take control of the capital Aden after Saudi Arabia launched massive air strikes (with the help of the US) to prevent them from taking over.

Mr Bowker said the Houthi rebels, which are Shia Islam like Iran, are seen as a threat to the Sunni Saudi Arabians.

“The Yemen situation is a slightly different picture,” Mr Bowker said. “The Saudis and the Emiratis are doing the heavy lifting there because again they see the Iranians as the primary beneficiaries of the Houthi uprising in Yemen. So, they are basically conducting this horrendous bombing campaign which basically destroyed the infrastructure of Yemen, rather than see the Houthis establish ongoing control over all over Yemen.

“The Houthi element also does provide a more immediate threat to Saudi interests, because of the border with Yemen, than Islamic State at the moment which does not have a significant presence along either the Saudi or Jordanian border.”

SURELY THEY ARE CAPABLE OF TAKING OUT ISLAMIC STATE?

Former Australian spy Warren Reed said the Arab nations could do it.

He told news.com.au there were many conflicting reasons why these countries were not doing “very much”.

“There are countries in the area that either don’t want to get involved in it because they don’t want to lose any blood or treasure and they usually think the Americans and allies will come in and do the dirty work for them,” he explained. “And there are certain countries that would like to see IS thrive as long as they don’t come and take their territory.

“Some are funding IS so it’s a real dog’s breakfast. It’s a real can of worms.

“You can’t just look at it and say this country is backing that one, this country is backing that one and that we have two teams. It’s not like that.”

Mr Reed, a senior security analyst who was trained by MI6 and served for 10 years as a spy with the Australian Secret Intelligence Service in the Middle East and Asia, told news.com.au while these Arab nations may not be launching major military offensives in Syria and Iraq, they do have their intelligence services firmly on the ground.

“Iran and Saudi Arabia underpin everything going on,” Mr Reed said.

“If you look at those two major countries you firstly have got to acknowledge the intelligence services are widely spread in the region, so whether they are seen to be involved or not in certain activities, they are there in the background.

“Now the Iranians are almost certainly much better placed [to take out Islamic State]. It’s not only have all sorts of military groups, but also militias that are connected to all sorts of forces, particularly in the area we are talking about.

“I think the Iranians will probably stick to the current level of activity at the moment.

“Their intelligence resources and military people placed under cover in that region would be outstanding and probably quite frightening if we knew the true extent of it.

“I think ultimately, Saudi Arabia, without help from outside, isn’t going to win out over the Iranians. It will carve out whatever area of infill or territory it thinks it’s entitled to and it will fight for it.

“Not that [Saudi Arabia] are sitting back doing nothing. It has a finger in the pie all across the region. In some areas it is quite overt. In Iraq it is co- operating with the Americans but most of its activity we don’t even see.”

CAN ISLAMIC STATE BE DEFEATED?

Mr Bowker said without troops on the ground the prospect was unlikely.

“Every western contributor to the campaign in Syria in Iraq knows air power will not defeat IS,” he said. “It will only be defeated by troops on the ground. And therefore if there are to be forces deployed on the ground you would have to identify where they are going to come from that would be politically, culturally and religiously acceptable.

“And the short answer to that is that probably there are none but if there were to be any they would be Arab and so if there are elements that can come together from Muslim countries to confront Islamic State or form part of peace keeping arrangement after the defeat of IS then that is something we would all welcome.

“But it’s not going to happen. The Arabs are not going to put boots on the ground in Syria.”

paraclete  posted on  2015-12-20   20:26:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Willie Green (#0)

This was not based on religion, and this was during wartime, but it is now seen as having been the singular dark mark on an otherwise admirable political life.

So what? We ARE at war now with Islam,and it was Islam that declared the war,not us. What are we supposed to do,ignore their attacks?

I'm with Trump on this one. Or at least with what he is saying,even if he doesn't mean it.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.

sneakypete  posted on  2015-12-20   21:14:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: paraclete (#4)

He told news.com.au he did not believe this new coalition would have much bite.

I don't believe it will either. Jihad is too universally and formaly entrenched within the islamic mind to permit it.

rlk  posted on  2015-12-20   23:01:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: sneakypete (#5) (Edited)

So what? We ARE at war now with Islam, and it was Islam that declared the war, not us. What are we supposed to do,ignore their attacks?

Of course we must fight but we have to have a proper perspective on who our enemy is. our enemy is the saudi who spread this wahhabbist militancy across the world, but our nations are in league with them, prosecuting the war in Syria because Saud wants to have ascendency over Iran and the shiia. This is the nonsense of a 1,400 year old religious split and now the whole world is fighting the war. We have been foolish enough to have involved ourselves in this, led by that idiot George Bush who wrongly identifed who the enemy was, no doubt informed by his father and his alliance with Saud.

You think we need to fight this war, trump is right to prevent muslims migrating but we must abandon this war. Those who attacked are dead and defeated

paraclete  posted on  2015-12-21   2:08:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: paraclete (#7)

Of course we must fight but we have to have a proper perspective on who our enemy is. our enemy is the saudi who spread this wahhabbist militancy across the world, but our nations are in league with them, prosecuting the war in Syria because Saud wants to have ascendency over Iran and the shiia. This is the nonsense of a 1,400 year old religious split and now the whole world is fighting the war. We have been foolish enough to have involved ourselves in this, led by that idiot George Bush who wrongly identifed who the enemy was, no doubt informed by his father and his alliance with Saud.

I couldn't agree more,except for the part about George Bush wrongly identifying who our enemy was. He knew he was doing the dirty work for his Saudi paymasters because he took their money to do that work. The entire Bush Crime Family is nothing but a pack of whores for sale to the highest bidder,and traitors.

You think we need to fight this war,

Yes,but as I have been saying all along,what we need to do is attack it at it's source by taking out the Sauds. Cut the head off the snake and the money to finance jihad disappears along with the war.

trump is right to prevent muslims migrating

Yes,he is,but he is not the only one saying it by any means. He's just the only prominent politician saying it. BUT....,you have to take into consideration that Trump is a con man and salesman,and his job has always been to tell the suckers what they want to hear. Then he takes their money and runs,and leaves other people to clean up the mess behind him. He's saying what he needs to say to stay in the campaign,and to get paid while puffing up his ego. Essentially,he is getting paid to tell people how wonderful he is in all respects. For him,that's like being in heaven.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.

sneakypete  posted on  2015-12-21   3:31:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Willie Green (#0)

Willie, a guy who's supposedly top issues are free trade and illegal immigration doesn't like Trump.

Either a liar or very confused.

'What kind of man gives cigarettes to trees?'

Dead Culture Watch  posted on  2015-12-21   18:08:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Dead Culture Watch (#9)

Either a liar or very confused.

If you mean me I am neither a liar or confused. Trump is obviously a means to an end, I think it is to get Hilliary elected because the electorate will either love him, or hate him so much they will say no way. I think you have the double cross in play here. You might even have the double, double cross with Trump leaving the scene to weak republican candidates after destroying the crediability of the republicans. His massive ego could never stand a defeat so I doubt he will risk it, there will be a business crisis that needs his special touch

paraclete  posted on  2015-12-22   6:52:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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