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Title: Finland is considering giving every citizen €800 a month
Source:
UK Telegraph
URL Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor ... every-citizen-800-a-month.html
Published: Dec 6, 2015
Author: Adam Boult
Post Date: 2015-12-06 12:42:26 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 8180
Comments: 62
Proposals for a national basic income are intended to simplify the social security system and encourage more unemployed people to take on temporary work Authorities in Finland are considering giving every citizen a tax-free payout of €800 (£576) each month. Under proposals being draw up by the Finnish Social Insurance Institution (Kela), this national basic income would replace all other benefit payments, and would be paid to all adults regardless of whether or not they receive any other income. Unemployment in Finland is currently at record levels, and the basic income is intended to encourage more people back to work. At present, many unemployed people would be worse off if they took on low-paid temporary jobs due to loss of welfare payments. More than 10 per cent of Finland's workforce is currently unemployed, rising to 22.7 per cent among younger workers. According to research commissioned by Kela, close to 69 per cent of the Finnish population favours the idea of a national basic income. Finnish Prime Minister Juha Sipila Detractors caution that a basic income would remove people's incentive to work and lead to higher unemployment. Those in favour point to previous experiments where a basic income has been successfully trialed. The Canadian town of Dauphin experimented with a basic income guarantee in the 1970s and the results - both social and economic - were largely positive. Finnish Prime Minister Juha Sipilä supports the idea, saying: “For me, a basic income means simplifying the social security system.” The basic income will cost Finland roughly €46.7 billion per year if fully implemented. Kela's proposals are due to be submitted in November 2016. The Dutch city of Utrecht is also planning to introduce a basic income, albeit solely for welfare recipients. From next month more than 250 unemployed residents of the city will be given a monthly sum to live on, with researchers monitoring the outcome to determine what effect it has on employment. Switzerland is also considering introducing a national basic income. In September the Swiss parliament voted, with a large majority, for a motion calling on the Swiss people to reject the Popular Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income. However, a nationwide referendum on the issue is slated for 2016 and, according to a recent online poll, 49% of the Swiss would currently vote in favour of its introduction. 
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#21. To: tpaine, cranky (#1)
Alaska does it. We could do it nationally by changing the laws to get money from natural resource royalties.
This is one of the most idiotic statements I have ever seen - anywhere, on any subject. You reeally are a total moronic loon. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
He has not grasp of economics, at all! He lives in a utopian mind set that his progressive master told him about. If he pulled his head out of his back side and used his head for something more than a hat rack he might realize that the dimwits are the number one problem facing Amerika with GOP elites next.
Where is the Finlandian Government to get the money to give away? Ok, I know, the American taxpayers. Redistribution of wealth is a valid term.
Psalm 37 PRAY FOR PARIS
And you 3 have outed yourselves as nothing but a bunch of GOP Establishment RimJob brown-nosers... Woo-Hoo to ALL of you.
America can do it by just printing more paper currency based on the 'full faith and credit' of the Federal government. In fact, America should just create a billion dollar bill (featuring Øbama's mug and jug ears, of course) and clip it every newborn's certificate of live birth (birth certificates have too much info on them, gotta cut costs somewhere). That should cover all expenses, cradle to grave. Problem solved. There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't
How will FINLAND be getting money from AMERICAN taxpayers?
Yeah, they are. If I make a product that costs me $8 and I sell it for $10, I make a profit of $2. I then pay the government 60 cents corporate tax, keeping $1.40. That 60 cents comes from the $10 selling price. Where did you think it came from? "If companies could simply "pass along" their costs, no business would ever go bankrupt." They have to pass along their costs or they WILL go bankrupt.
R U kidding? Obama's fun time of the day is giving money to other nations.
Psalm 37 PRAY FOR PARIS
No you don't. Your company has $20 million fixed costs... you have to sell product to a million customers just to break-even before you have any profit or income tax obligations.
My $8 cost includes materials, labor, and overhead (fixed costs).
Then your 60-cent tax came out of your $2 profit, not the selling price.
My 60-cent tax came out of my $2 profit which came out of the $10 the customer paid for my product.
Something to think about when it comes to the Fair Tax: As I stated before, my $8 cost consists of material, labor and overhead. My labor cost is the gross income to the employee. As the employer, I deduct FICA and income taxes from the gross income and send that money directly to the government. The employee gets the rest. Are you with me so far? This means that when the customer buys my product for $10, HE is the one paying the FICA and income taxes because that's part of the cost of the product.
How much does the USA give to Finland every year?
No, it only comes out of your $2 profit because when you sold it to the customer, you didn't know if you were competitive enough to sell your product to 999,999 other customers to cover your fixed costs first. You HAVE to sell enough product to cover your fixed costs FIRST before you can make a profit. Your tax comes ONLY out of your profit. No profit, no tax.
No clue. Do you have access to Obama's books? I don't.
Psalm 37 PRAY FOR PARIS
I have never been on TOS. Your understanding of economics is that of 10 year old being lead around by progressive parent. I would not care so much but instead of you and your parents paying the price we all are the ones paying. Every time progressives are allowed to run the show they run the country into the ground! Hidden taxes account for nearly 50% of all taxes. Corporate tax is a hidden tax because consumers pay the tax in the end. Our tax system is broken just like big government is broken and all people want is more of what got us here in the first place. Every recession/depression has been caused by big government sticking its nose into the economy because they were either paid off by dollars or votes.
No, the fair tax is a genuine effort to replace the income tax mess with a tax scheme that would work to increase wealth, not penalize it. You parrot the baldfaced lie of the socialists, Willy. Others here have refuted YOU with FACTS.. Facts you cannot deny. Give it up. Quite true, of course, and many huge company's seldom pay income taxes. -- All the more reason to shitcan the income tax system...
Why are you against an Alaska royalties type law on the Federal level? Why are so called conservatives so stupid?
You got to steal it from peter to give to paul. Its the SOS.
How are natural resources on federally owned land "stealing"? You can't be that stupid? https://useiti.doi.gov/ Revenues from the sale of natural resources on Federal lands totaled $127.4 billion between 2003 and 2013. These go directly to the state. I say, cut the state out and pay direct to US citizens all of said royalties or some of them.
Because instead of using it to pay for stuff needed you piss it away on voter gifts. Why not borrow money and give it away instead? Now if there were no taxes to pay and government had money left over then I could see sending everyone a check but that is never going to happen. This is economics 101.
That is a socialist statement - the govt can do a better job with spending your money than you yourself? Are you sure you are a conservative? Do Alaskans go to Vegas every time they get a paycheck?
That's why I have a marketing department. They tell me how many units I will sell using a price point of $10. If I can't cover my fixed cost AND make a profit, I shouldn't be in that business.
Stop wasting your time. As he amply demonstrates in almost everyone of his postings, Willie Boy has sh*t for brains. He is the perfect useful idiot for the "progressive" lefty thugs. He's all in on the left's talking points de jure. I doubt that he ever had an original thought of his own worthy of someone of a IQ of just 90. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Conservatives only appear stupid to the ignorant. There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't
I have never been on TOS. Neither have I. Willy Boy, the Village Idiot, is wrong again. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Why have taxes? We all know we have societal needs. And yes im conservative. The problem with government its too big and used by progressives to manipulate people by taxation and spending. If its not taken out of my pocket then its not really my money?
The whole idea behind this is a conservative idea - give the money direct to the people and cut the govt out. Here you are arguing the state should spend the money - I think you are confused as to what a conservative is.
The whole idea behind this is a conservative idea - give the money direct to the people and cut the govt out. Here you are arguing the state should spend the money - I think you are confused as to what a conservative is.
You can't live off a resources boom, sooner or later the money runs out
Live off of? Why do you assume this is meant as a salary substitute - it is a bonus to American citizens for use of their land.
I understand what these things are about, spending long term value on short term political objectives. Yours isn't the only country where pups are sold and bought and it looks very attractive in times where other revenues might be low. The reality is there is no free lunch, when the resources are gone, what then? By all means extract a resource rent, royalty, whatever you want to call it, but invest it in something that provides long term value and future employment because tomorrow's citizens have just as much stake as today's
Why are you assuming this would be a substitute for incomes? And why do you want the govt to keep and distribute the money?
Governments raise taxes to provide services to citizens, they should not raise taxes to directly redistribute wealth. Doing so is one of the worst forms of socialism. When you provide the citizens with income from government coffers, no matter what you call the distribution they eventually see this as a right, an inalienable right, so that should there be a need to change it will be met with political angst. Ask yourself how many welfare or social security measures, and I use the terms in the broadest sense,are ever repealed? There is a massive national debt, if you tax resourse industries why not put the money to reducing the debt, eventually the tax burden can be reduced but how can you continue to run up the debt at teh same time making wealth distributions to citizens. It defies logic
What does that have to do with raising royalties on public lands to distribute to the landowners aka citizens - like Alaska - Why are so many American conservatives so stupid? Is it the dumbed down talk radio?
Even Alaska is realising theat their policies are bankrupting their state.
Which has zero to do with the royalties program - seriously why are you against citizens getting royalties?
What I see is that if you give someone something for nothing evenually you reduce the will of the people to look after themselves. giving individuals money they didn't earn seems a great idea but you try to take it away later when things get tough
So we should tax inheritance at 100%??
Comments (62 - 62) not displayed.
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#22. To: Willie Green, All (#20)
Nope. Can't happen. company's tax obligation (if any) is unknown when the consumer makes a purchase. It cannot be determined whether the company is operating at a profit or a loss until AFTER revenues and expenses are tallied at the end of the fiscal period.
#23. To: SOSO, Willie Green (#22)
This is one of the most idiotic statements I have ever seen - anywhere, on any subject. You reeally are a total moronic loon.
#24. To: cranky (#0)
#25. To: Justified, SOSO, tpaine (#23)
#26. To: Pericles (#21)
We could do it nationally by changing the laws to get money from natural resource royalties.
#27. To: Don (#24)
#28. To: Willie Green (#2)
"Business income taxes are NOT a cost."
#29. To: Vicomte13 (#27)
#30. To: misterwhite (#28)
If I make a product that costs me $8 and I sell it for $10, I make a profit of $2.
#31. To: Willie Green (#30)
"Your company has $20 million fixed costs"
#32. To: misterwhite (#31)
My $8 cost includes materials, labor, and overhead (fixed costs).
That 60 cents comes from the $10 selling price. Where did you think it came from?
#33. To: Willie Green (#32)
"Then your 60-cent tax came out of your $2 profit, not the selling price."
#34. To: Willie Green (#32)
#35. To: Don (#29)
#36. To: misterwhite (#33)
#37. To: Vicomte13 (#35)
#38. To: Willie Green (#25)
And you 3 have outed yourselves as nothing but a bunch of GOP Establishment RimJob brown-nosers... Woo-Hoo to ALL of you.
#39. To: Willie Green (#2)
The deliberately misnamed "Fair Tax" is a proposal advocated by the worst tax frauds, money launderers, swindlers, cheats, thiefs, grifters, conartists & corporate shills in Congress..
Their claim that business income taxes are a hidden, embedded "cost" that are "passed along" to the consumer is a baldfaced lie.
Business income taxes are NOT a cost. They are a lawful government confiscation of a portion of the business profits (if any) calculated AFTER costs are deducted from revenue... If a business doesn't make any profit, then a business doesn't pay any business income tax.
#40. To: cranky (#26)
#41. To: Pericles, cranky (#40)
Why are you against an Alaska royalties type law on the Federal level? Why are so called conservatives so stupid?
#42. To: Justified, cranky (#41)
You got to steal it from peter to give to paul. Its the SOS.
#43. To: Pericles (#42)
#44. To: Justified (#43)
Because instead of using it to pay for stuff needed you piss it away on voter gifts.
#45. To: Willie Green (#36)
"You HAVE to sell enough product to cover your fixed costs FIRST before you can make a profit."
#46. To: misterwhite, Willie Green (#34)
This means that when the customer buys my product for $10, HE is the one paying the FICA and income taxes because that's part of the cost of the product.
#47. To: Pericles (#40)
Why are so called conservatives so stupid?
#48. To: Justified, Willie Green (#38)
And you 3 have outed yourselves as nothing but a bunch of GOP Establishment RimJob brown-nosers... Woo-Hoo to ALL of you.
#49. To: Pericles (#44)
That is a socialist statement - the govt can do a better job with spending your money than you yourself? Are you sure you are a conservative? Do Alaskans go to Vegas every time they get a paycheck?
#50. To: Justified (#49)
#51. To: cranky (#47)
#52. To: Pericles (#21)
(Edited)
Alaska
#53. To: paraclete (#52)
#54. To: Pericles (#53)
it is a bonus to American citizens for use of their land
#55. To: paraclete (#54)
The reality is there is no free lunch, when the resources are gone, what then?
#56. To: Pericles (#55)
And why do you want the govt to keep and distribute the money?
#57. To: paraclete (#56)
(Edited)
Governments raise taxes to provide services to citizens, they should not raise taxes to directly redistribute wealth. Doing so is one of the worst forms of socialism.
#58. To: Pericles (#57)
#59. To: paraclete (#58)
Even Alaska is realising theat their policies are bankrupting their state.
#60. To: Pericles (#59)
#61. To: paraclete (#60)
What I see is that if you give someone something for nothing evenually you reduce the will of the people to look after themselves.
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