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Title: Finland is considering giving every citizen €800 a month
Source:
UK Telegraph
URL Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor ... every-citizen-800-a-month.html
Published: Dec 6, 2015
Author: Adam Boult
Post Date: 2015-12-06 12:42:26 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 8066
Comments: 62
Proposals for a national basic income are intended to simplify the social security system and encourage more unemployed people to take on temporary work Authorities in Finland are considering giving every citizen a tax-free payout of €800 (£576) each month. Under proposals being draw up by the Finnish Social Insurance Institution (Kela), this national basic income would replace all other benefit payments, and would be paid to all adults regardless of whether or not they receive any other income. Unemployment in Finland is currently at record levels, and the basic income is intended to encourage more people back to work. At present, many unemployed people would be worse off if they took on low-paid temporary jobs due to loss of welfare payments. More than 10 per cent of Finland's workforce is currently unemployed, rising to 22.7 per cent among younger workers. According to research commissioned by Kela, close to 69 per cent of the Finnish population favours the idea of a national basic income. Finnish Prime Minister Juha Sipila Detractors caution that a basic income would remove people's incentive to work and lead to higher unemployment. Those in favour point to previous experiments where a basic income has been successfully trialed. The Canadian town of Dauphin experimented with a basic income guarantee in the 1970s and the results - both social and economic - were largely positive. Finnish Prime Minister Juha Sipilä supports the idea, saying: “For me, a basic income means simplifying the social security system.” The basic income will cost Finland roughly €46.7 billion per year if fully implemented. Kela's proposals are due to be submitted in November 2016. The Dutch city of Utrecht is also planning to introduce a basic income, albeit solely for welfare recipients. From next month more than 250 unemployed residents of the city will be given a monthly sum to live on, with researchers monitoring the outcome to determine what effect it has on employment. Switzerland is also considering introducing a national basic income. In September the Swiss parliament voted, with a large majority, for a motion calling on the Swiss people to reject the Popular Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income. However, a nationwide referendum on the issue is slated for 2016 and, according to a recent online poll, 49% of the Swiss would currently vote in favour of its introduction. 
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#1. To: cranky (#0)
(Edited)
Under proposals being draw up by the Finnish Social Insurance Institution (Kela), this national basic income would replace all other benefit payments, and would be paid to all adults regardless of whether or not they receive any other income. Unemployment in Finland is currently at record levels, and the basic income is intended to encourage more people back to work. At present, many unemployed people would be worse off if they took on low-paid temporary jobs due to loss of welfare payments. Fair Tax advocates in the USA are considering giving every citizen a tax-free payout/prebate of $1000. each month. Under proposals being draw up by the Fair Tax legislators this national basic income would replace all other benefit payments, and would be paid to all adults regardless of whether or not they receive any other income. Unemployment in the USA is currently at record levels, and the basic income (AKA as a 'Prebate') is intended to encourage more people back to work. At present, many unemployed people would be worse off if they took on low-paid temporary jobs due to loss of welfare payments. It's probably too late for a tax scheme like the Fair Tax (with prebate) - coupled with a repeal of ALL income tax codes, -- to avert national financial collapse, -- - but it may be worth a try.
Don't be stupid The deliberately misnamed "Fair Tax" is a proposal advocated by the worst tax frauds, money launderers, swindlers, cheats, thiefs, grifters, conartists & corporate shills in Congress. Their claim that business income taxes are a hidden, embedded "cost" that are "passed along" to the consumer is a baldfaced lie. Business income taxes are NOT a cost. They are a lawful government confiscation of a portion of the business profits (if any) calculated AFTER costs are deducted from revenue... If a business doesn't make any profit, then a business doesn't pay any business income tax. In fact, the idiotic assertion that ANY cost can simply be "passed along" to the consumer shows total ignorance of how businesses operate in a competitive market economy. Prices are determined by supply & demand in the marketplace with NO guarantee that businesses will make a profit. If companies could simply "pass along" their costs, no business would ever go bankrupt. If you want to give the "Fair Tax" a try, tpaine, then you might as well become a monthly donor to JimRob's Eternal Snookerthon! Dig deep into your wallet, tpaine... Jimmy only needs another $4.3k to go to put him over the top for the 4th Qtr which he's been dragging on forever!
From Jimmy "Woo-Hoo" Robinson? Say hey Willie, that's hitting below the belt. Knock it off! /JR
The deliberately misnamed "Fair Tax" is a proposal advocated by the worst tax frauds, money launderers, swindlers, cheats, thiefs, grifters, conartists & corporate shills in Congress. Their claim that business income taxes are a hidden, embedded "cost" that are "passed along" to the consumer is a baldfaced lie. And were did you learn business economics, Willie Boy, Karl Marx? If a business does not earn an acceptable AFTER TAX PROFIT it will not stay in business. In order for a business to earn an acceptable AFTER TAX PROFIT the amount of taxes MUST BE COVERED in the cost of the products that it sells. In other words, stupid, cost cost of taxes is borne by the consumer of those products. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
This sounds like a rational proposal, eliminate all forms of social security and replace it with an entitlement payment. You could expect Finland to be flooded with immigrants attacted by the thought of a free lunch. It certainly would eliminate all the bickering about who is entitled to what with a reduction in the public service. With the welfare trap eliminated employment may improve but those low paid jobs may boom as they are seen as a supplement to income I wonder has anyone in Finland heard of hyperinflation? This happens when the supply of money exceeds the availability of goods
You are, of course, correct. But you might as well save your breath (or your typing fingers, to be more accurate) In the world of the Marxist economist, there's little (if any) private ownership of business. And what little there is - exists only at the behest OF the government. Business' SOLE purpose is to support the government through fees and taxes. It's "for the people" doncha know "Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD . . . " ~Psalm 33:12a
In a competitive market economy, is business guaranteed to make an "acceptable" AFTER TAX PROFIT? I'll give you a hint: the answer is NO.
Soso -- If a business does not earn an acceptable AFTER TAX PROFIT it will not stay in business. In order for a business to earn an acceptable AFTER TAX PROFIT the amount of taxes MUST BE COVERED in the cost of the products that it sells. In other words, stupid, cost cost of taxes is borne by the consumer of those products Obviously, soso is correct on this issue, and our Marxist Willy boy, doesn't have a clue..
But that's so 1930's type thinking. Our rulers have fixed that so hyperinflation will never happen again. All money is nowadays is bits and bytes in a computer. And computers can count up to the trillions, now. "Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD . . . " ~Psalm 33:12a
yup can't say it any better . Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Sometimes they just plain can't compete with other businesses. Too bad. *unless you are one of the Ruling Class' preferred corporations like General Motors. Then you're "too big to fail". "Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD . . . " ~Psalm 33:12a
Inflation in consumer goods have gone under the radar, masked by cheap energy . Now the Fed is thinking of tinkering with slight adjustments in the interest rates when they should've been creating a strong dollar for years . Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
We've all heard of inflation, and of course this fair tax scheme is inflationary. But so is our income tax nightmare. -- IMHO, this is worth a try, as it might stop (temporarily?) our otherwise inevitable financial collapse/hyperinflation.
You only have to worry about income tax when you actually have income and pay it. Not taking the money in the first place by placing a high threshold on income would be a start rather than having a make work system of collections and rebates. What I see is someone just won't let go of the reins and acknowledge that a very large percentage of the population don't actually pay tax, they make a negative contribution
so you see a big market for wheelbarrows?
Why don't you go post to some Aussie website, and solve their problems?
What problems
Call their €800 a month and raise them 1,600. Let's make a real party out of incompetence for them!
I'll give you a hint: the answer is NO. Sometimes they just plain can't compete with other businesses. Too bad. That doesn't change the fact that the cost of taxes is paid for by the consumer not the business. In you Marxist lala land if not business earns the required after taxes profit there will be no business. But of course that's what you want, 100% ownership of everyhting by the government. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Nope. Can't happen. company's tax obligation (if any) is unknown when the consumer makes a purchase. It cannot be determined whether the company is operating at a profit or a loss until AFTER revenues and expenses are tallied at the end of the fiscal period. Income taxes are merely confiscation of a portion of the profit. You have pre-tax profit & you have after tax profit. The tax obligation belongs to the business, not the consumer.
Alaska does it. We could do it nationally by changing the laws to get money from natural resource royalties.
This is one of the most idiotic statements I have ever seen - anywhere, on any subject. You reeally are a total moronic loon. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
He has not grasp of economics, at all! He lives in a utopian mind set that his progressive master told him about. If he pulled his head out of his back side and used his head for something more than a hat rack he might realize that the dimwits are the number one problem facing Amerika with GOP elites next.
Where is the Finlandian Government to get the money to give away? Ok, I know, the American taxpayers. Redistribution of wealth is a valid term.
Psalm 37 PRAY FOR PARIS
And you 3 have outed yourselves as nothing but a bunch of GOP Establishment RimJob brown-nosers... Woo-Hoo to ALL of you.
America can do it by just printing more paper currency based on the 'full faith and credit' of the Federal government. In fact, America should just create a billion dollar bill (featuring Øbama's mug and jug ears, of course) and clip it every newborn's certificate of live birth (birth certificates have too much info on them, gotta cut costs somewhere). That should cover all expenses, cradle to grave. Problem solved. There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't
How will FINLAND be getting money from AMERICAN taxpayers?
Yeah, they are. If I make a product that costs me $8 and I sell it for $10, I make a profit of $2. I then pay the government 60 cents corporate tax, keeping $1.40. That 60 cents comes from the $10 selling price. Where did you think it came from? "If companies could simply "pass along" their costs, no business would ever go bankrupt." They have to pass along their costs or they WILL go bankrupt.
R U kidding? Obama's fun time of the day is giving money to other nations.
Psalm 37 PRAY FOR PARIS
No you don't. Your company has $20 million fixed costs... you have to sell product to a million customers just to break-even before you have any profit or income tax obligations.
My $8 cost includes materials, labor, and overhead (fixed costs).
Then your 60-cent tax came out of your $2 profit, not the selling price.
My 60-cent tax came out of my $2 profit which came out of the $10 the customer paid for my product.
Something to think about when it comes to the Fair Tax: As I stated before, my $8 cost consists of material, labor and overhead. My labor cost is the gross income to the employee. As the employer, I deduct FICA and income taxes from the gross income and send that money directly to the government. The employee gets the rest. Are you with me so far? This means that when the customer buys my product for $10, HE is the one paying the FICA and income taxes because that's part of the cost of the product.
How much does the USA give to Finland every year?
No, it only comes out of your $2 profit because when you sold it to the customer, you didn't know if you were competitive enough to sell your product to 999,999 other customers to cover your fixed costs first. You HAVE to sell enough product to cover your fixed costs FIRST before you can make a profit. Your tax comes ONLY out of your profit. No profit, no tax.
No clue. Do you have access to Obama's books? I don't.
Psalm 37 PRAY FOR PARIS
I have never been on TOS. Your understanding of economics is that of 10 year old being lead around by progressive parent. I would not care so much but instead of you and your parents paying the price we all are the ones paying. Every time progressives are allowed to run the show they run the country into the ground! Hidden taxes account for nearly 50% of all taxes. Corporate tax is a hidden tax because consumers pay the tax in the end. Our tax system is broken just like big government is broken and all people want is more of what got us here in the first place. Every recession/depression has been caused by big government sticking its nose into the economy because they were either paid off by dollars or votes.
No, the fair tax is a genuine effort to replace the income tax mess with a tax scheme that would work to increase wealth, not penalize it. You parrot the baldfaced lie of the socialists, Willy. Others here have refuted YOU with FACTS.. Facts you cannot deny. Give it up. Quite true, of course, and many huge company's seldom pay income taxes. -- All the more reason to shitcan the income tax system...
Why are you against an Alaska royalties type law on the Federal level? Why are so called conservatives so stupid?
Comments (41 - 62) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAuthorities in Finland are considering giving every citizen a tax- free payout of €800 (£576) each month.
#2. To: tpaine (#1)
-- - but it may be worth a try.
Where'd you learn your business economics, tpaine?
From Jimmy "Woo-Hoo" Robinson?
#3. To: Willie Green (#2)
Where'd you learn your business economics, tpaine?
#4. To: Willie Green, tpaine (#2)
Don't be stupid Where'd you learn your business economics, tpaine? From Jimmy "Woo-Hoo" Robinson?
#5. To: cranky (#0)
(Edited)
#6. To: SOSO, Willie Green, tpaine (#4)
If a business does not earn an acceptable AFTER TAX PROFIT it will not stay in business. In order for a business to earn an acceptable AFTER TAX PROFIT the amount of taxes MUST BE COVERED in the cost of the products that it sells. In other words, stupid, cost cost of taxes is borne by the consumer of those products.
#7. To: SOSO (#4)
If a business does not earn an acceptable AFTER TAX PROFIT it will not stay in business. In order for a business to earn an acceptable AFTER TAX PROFIT the amount of taxes MUST BE COVERED in the cost of the products that it sells. In other words, stupid, cost cost of taxes is borne by the consumer of those products.
Sometimes they just plain can't compete with other businesses. Too bad.
#8. To: SOSO, Willie Green, Y'ALL (#4)
the idiotic assertion that ANY cost can simply be "passed along" to the consumer shows total ignorance of how businesses operate in a competitive market economy. Prices are determined by supply & demand in the marketplace with NO guarantee that businesses will make a profit. If companies could simply "pass along" their costs, no business would ever go bankrupt. --- Willy boy
#9. To: paraclete (#5)
I wonder has anyone in Finland heard of hyperinflation? This happens when the supply of money exceeds the availability of goods
#10. To: paraclete (#5)
I wonder has anyone in Finland heard of hyperinflation? This happens when the supply of money exceeds the availability of goods
#11. To: Willie Green (#7)
I'll give you a hint: the answer is NO.*
#12. To: Rufus T Firefly (#9)
But that's so 1930's type thinking
#13. To: paraclete, Y'ALL (#5)
I wonder has anyone in Finland heard of hyperinflation? This happens when the supply of money exceeds the availability of goods
#14. To: tpaine (#13)
But so is our income tax nightmare
#15. To: Rufus T Firefly (#9)
But that's so 1930's type thinking.
#16. To: paraclete (#14)
#17. To: tpaine (#16)
#18. To: cranky (#0)
Finland is considering giving every citizen €800 a month
#19. To: Willie Green (#7)
In a competitive market economy, is business guaranteed to make an "acceptable" AFTER TAX PROFIT?
#20. To: SOSO (#19)
That doesn't change the fact that the cost of taxes is paid for by the consumer not the business.
#21. To: tpaine, cranky (#1)
#22. To: Willie Green, All (#20)
Nope. Can't happen. company's tax obligation (if any) is unknown when the consumer makes a purchase. It cannot be determined whether the company is operating at a profit or a loss until AFTER revenues and expenses are tallied at the end of the fiscal period.
#23. To: SOSO, Willie Green (#22)
This is one of the most idiotic statements I have ever seen - anywhere, on any subject. You reeally are a total moronic loon.
#24. To: cranky (#0)
#25. To: Justified, SOSO, tpaine (#23)
#26. To: Pericles (#21)
We could do it nationally by changing the laws to get money from natural resource royalties.
#27. To: Don (#24)
#28. To: Willie Green (#2)
"Business income taxes are NOT a cost."
#29. To: Vicomte13 (#27)
#30. To: misterwhite (#28)
If I make a product that costs me $8 and I sell it for $10, I make a profit of $2.
#31. To: Willie Green (#30)
"Your company has $20 million fixed costs"
#32. To: misterwhite (#31)
My $8 cost includes materials, labor, and overhead (fixed costs).
That 60 cents comes from the $10 selling price. Where did you think it came from?
#33. To: Willie Green (#32)
"Then your 60-cent tax came out of your $2 profit, not the selling price."
#34. To: Willie Green (#32)
#35. To: Don (#29)
#36. To: misterwhite (#33)
#37. To: Vicomte13 (#35)
#38. To: Willie Green (#25)
And you 3 have outed yourselves as nothing but a bunch of GOP Establishment RimJob brown-nosers... Woo-Hoo to ALL of you.
#39. To: Willie Green (#2)
The deliberately misnamed "Fair Tax" is a proposal advocated by the worst tax frauds, money launderers, swindlers, cheats, thiefs, grifters, conartists & corporate shills in Congress..
Their claim that business income taxes are a hidden, embedded "cost" that are "passed along" to the consumer is a baldfaced lie.
Business income taxes are NOT a cost. They are a lawful government confiscation of a portion of the business profits (if any) calculated AFTER costs are deducted from revenue... If a business doesn't make any profit, then a business doesn't pay any business income tax.
#40. To: cranky (#26)
.
.
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