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Title: Pentagon backs Turkey’s version of events, blames ‘incursion’ of Russian jet
Source: Washington Times
URL Source: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news ... s-version-accuses-russian-fig/
Published: Nov 24, 2015
Author: Staff
Post Date: 2015-11-24 11:42:22 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 7052
Comments: 52

The U.S. military on Tuesday labeled as an “incursion” the Russian fighter jet that was shot down by Turkish aircraft over the Syria-Turkey border.

Army Col. Steve Warren, the top military spokesman in Baghdad, confirmed the Turk’s version of events in saying they repeatedly warned the two Russian SU-24 pilots to back off.

Col. Warren used the word “incursion” to describe the Russian flight, but also said the command was studying radars and other data, such as radio chatter, to make a definite conclusion.

“The incident happened at the border,” Col. Warren said. “These things are not as clean as they are in the movies.”

Russian President Vladimir Putin in recent years has deployed his fighters and bombers close to the air space of NATO countries, such as Turkey and the U.S., as a way to try to rattle the allies.

This is the first time he has paid a price in having one of his jets shot down and perhaps the pilots killed.

Mr. Putin is backing Syrian President Bashar Assad, which is opposed by the Turkish government. Ankara is helping rebels opposed to the regime.

The U.S. sent F-15C air superiority jets to Turkey to help it patrol and defend its air space. Col. Warren said no F-15 was in the vicinity.

This “purely took place between the Russians and the Turks,” he said.

Col. Warren has made no secret of the U.S.’s displeasure with Russian bombing campaign in Syria. They assert Mr. Putin is mostly bombing moderate rebel groups opposed to Mr. Assad and devoting little time to the Islamic State terror army.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 8.

#2. To: cranky (#0)

The US-Mexican Border is not well marked, and we have a lot of military aircraft doing drills out in the desert at night, and a lot of law enforcement and border enforcement helicopters and planes out there that sometimes cross into Mexican airspace.

And if the Mexicans shot down an American fighter plane or a helicopter for crossing a mile into Mexico?

It is absurd to shoot down planes for a minor incursion. Absurd. Russia and Turkey are not at war. The Russians fly close to the border, or across it? Turkey complains diplomatically. But to just close in and shoot?

And if China shoots down a US Navy aircraft that flies over those disputed islands?

We have a naval base at Guantanamo, with a defined ingress and egress, and if an American warship loses its bearings - or its engine - and strays from the channel into Cuban waters, and the Cubans instantly hose off anti-ship missiles to blow it up?

It's absurd. Hairtriggers are absurd. Russia is not attacking Turkey.

So, the US is going to back the Turks? We are out of our minds. Our policy is stupid and our policymakers are morons. And they may very well get us all killed.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-11-24   11:55:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

It is absurd to shoot down planes for a minor incursion. Absurd. Russia and Turkey are not at war. The Russians fly close to the border, or across it? Turkey complains diplomatically. But to just close in and shoot?

Like America shooting down the Iranian Airbus in the Gulf (paid restitution, wouldn't admit fault or apologize, gave medals to the incompetents who shot it down)? How about the Russians shooting down the Korean airliner in the Eighties (KAL-007?)? Or the Ukrainians shooting down that tourist plane of Russian Jews over the Black Sea (Novosiborsk-Tel Aviv, I think, a Siberian airline).

And if China shoots down a US Navy aircraft that flies over those disputed islands?

The Chinese did clip that spy plane and brought it down. But they bumped it, causing a semi-crash during a hard landing in China. Then they held the Navy crew for weeks. Would we be happier if they had just shot it down, despite it gathering el-int on China?

Turkey has been foolish. And after shooting the pilots descending in their parachutes, if I were a Turkoman, I would run for the hills and hide in a deep cave. Russia will not just take that. I think the Kurds just found a powerful new friend in Vlad Putin.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-11-24   12:50:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: TooConservative (#4)

Like America shooting down the Iranian Airbus in the Gulf (paid restitution, wouldn't admit fault or apologize, gave medals to the incompetents who shot it down)? How about the Russians shooting down the Korean airliner in the Eighties (KAL-007?)? Or the Ukrainians shooting down that tourist plane of Russian Jews over the Black Sea (Novosiborsk-Tel Aviv, I think, a Siberian airline).

Each of those situations is different.

Yes, the American shootdown of that jetliner was bad, but it was in a war zone where a US ship (the USS Stark) had already been blown up and nearly sunk by an Exocet missile strike. Iran and Iraq were at war, and the war was spilling over into the shipping lanes. Still, it was a tragedy that didn't need to happen. I have my own experiences as the Weapons Control Officer on a guided missile frigate, sister to the Stark, there in the Gulf during that timeframe - we left station a few months before the Vincennes arrived and the tragedy occurred. The problem there was the Vincennes had not been on station long enough to understand the neighborhood. We should have apologized, because it was really a terrible accident. The CO of the Vincennes was cashiered any my own old CO went and took over. It was a tragedy, a true accident. The Vincennes thought they were under attack. If they had been there longer, they would have realized that their fear under those circumstances was unfounded, but they really felt it, and a US ship had been blown apart already, and they thought they were under boat attack also, so they made the wrong call. It was bad, but it's not the same thing as what just happened. The Russians are clearly not attacking Turkey.

The Soviet shootdown of KAL-007 was inexcusable. There was no war on. There was no threat to the Soviet Union. It was just the "You crossed this line, so now you die" mindset that is not acceptable in military men. We have to be smarter than that, and if we're not, then we deserve the damnation of gods and men.

I don't recall the Ukrainian Black Sea incident. When did it happen?

If you shoot down a civilian jetliner in a time of peace, you're wrong and there is no excuse. If you shoot one down in a time of war, you're still wrong, though it's more understandable if the sight picture of what was happening looks like a real threat.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-11-24   13:05:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Vicomte13 (#5)

If you shoot down a civilian jetliner in a time of peace, you're wrong and there is no excuse.

Richard Nixon felt the same way.

nativist nationalist  posted on  2015-11-24   13:21:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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