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Title: Egypt's Pyramids Were Grain Silos, Not Tombs
Source:
Lead Stories
URL Source: http://ben-carson.leadstories.com/0 ... ere-grain-silos-not-tombs.html
Published: Nov 5, 2015
Author: Alan Duke
Post Date: 2015-11-05 08:58:10 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 30397
Comments: 60
Ben Carson, one of the Republican frontrunners in the race to be U.S. president, believes archeologists got it wrong about Egypt's pyramids. The huge stone structures were built to store massive quantities of grain, not to serve as tomb for rulers, according to what Carson said in a 1998 graduation speech at Michigan's Andrews University.
And the remarkable pyramids were built not by the pharaohs, but by the biblical Joseph, son of Jacob, Carson hypothesized.
In the Old Testament book of Genesis, Joseph was said to have "stored up grain in great abundance like the sand of the sea, until he stopped measuring it, for it was beyond measure," Carson said in a video of the address. Carson been a popular speaker for conservative Christian groups for years. Here's the speech posted on YouTube:
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#21. To: paraclete (#20)
I ask you to be willing to think and accept the possibility the the initial design of the very first pryamids (the ones that didn't survive 2000 thousand years) may have been inspired by the design of ancient Egyptian grain storage structures (which also did not survive very long), especially designs incorporating critter control for extended periods of time. I certainly do not think that the pryamids we see today were built for grain storage. I do believe that it is possible that they were inspired by earlier designs of grain storage structures - and ceratinly could have incorporated what Egyptians learned from building grain storage structures. Societies advance by building upon the knowledge of what things work and what do not for the intended purpose. I think that unless you know with reasonable certainity what the original prototype for an Egyptian pryamid actually was you should open up your mind to other real possibilities as you appear to be short sighted in your thinking. You may have the last word on this subject. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Would it help if Carson said there was a conspiracy by powerful and cunning Egyptian elites to use the pyramids to store grain? That it was a conspiracy by the Pharaoh and his cronies to perpetrate a pyramid scheme on the helpless citizens of Egypt? No you completely missed his point. Mankind at the time the Pyramids were constructed did not have the tools nor the know-how. That leaves the only answer...ALIENS. I bet they were illegally here too! "Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near"---Isaiah 55:6
Maybe. Where did they store the grain to feed the tens of thousands of laborers on site?
These pyramids are not hollow. They are solid masses of rocks constructed with a few tiny narrow passages into them. The passages are a tiny fraction of 1% of the pyramid's internal volume. Egypt used granaries to feed the large population of workers in Babylon and other ancient cities across the arid region of the Mideast and northern Africa. Famine was a regular feature of life. Egypt stored grain to feed the masses primarily in ground pit granaries, covered against the weather. Ancient Egypt was wetter than now but it was still a very dry climate so a covered pit of grain might have lasted a decade or more there. For an example of what a wealthy pharaoh would use, the best example is the relatively little-known Ramesseum temple complex with a full set of granaries and warehouses. It was the mortuary temple of Rameses II who was the last of the great pharaohs of Egypt, 13th century BCE. [Another good picture is here (TourEgypt.net).] Civilization.org.uk: Ramesseum But Ramesseum would have been the high-end of the whole granary scene in ancient Egypt. For feeding the masses, it would be large covered ground pits in carefully chosen locations. Naturally, they would try to seal them very tight and put only very dry grain in them. Ancient Egypt had a commodities market of sorts that allowed trading of grain held in storage. After all, Joseph's brothers did travel to Egypt to purchase grain during a famine because Egypt was an agricultural superpower of the era. It is interesting to consider what ancient Egypt was like during the time the Israelites were captive workers there. They would have been fed, like the Egyptian working class, out of these covered-pit granaries. And the Ramesseum's storehouses and granaries would have been reserved for its priests and other staff. The general topic of grain storage and grain commerce and occasional drought/famine and the danger of locusts to food supply, are key elements of a number of stories in the Old Testament.
Like this?
Yep. Nice find. A vital development in the history of agriculture and civilization.
I wonder if they were part of the pyramid complexes? Some people have claimed that.
There are a lot of theories about the workforce, who they were, how they were paid (if they were), their housing, food supply, etc. The prevailing thinking is that the workers were seasonal workers from agricultural areas who came during the off-season to earn extra money. They stayed in tents and huts near the pyramid for a month or two. And they would naturally have some local grain depot. But given that the pyramid's stones were being transported by boat on the Nile, it would be easy enough to bring in grain as well to feed the seasonal workers. The pharaoh's buying agents would scour for the best prices around the kingdom to buy and ship to the workers at the site during their work season.
And would they store the grain acquired at seasonally best prices in silos at the pyramid complex to feed the tens of thousands of workers, permanent and seasonal, that lived at the worksite? "The workers may be sub-divided into a permanent workforce of some 5,000 salaried employees who lived, together with their families and dependents, in a well-established pyramid village. There would also have been up to 20,000 temporary workers who arrived to work three- or four-month shifts, and who lived in a less sophisticated camp established alongside the pyramid village." http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egyptians/pyramid_builders_01.shtml
In all likelihood, they would only bring the seasonal workers in from the countryside in years where they knew they had adequate grain supplies to feed them. You have to feed working men a lot more food than if they passed the slow season at home until the next year's farm work began. So I would expect they would have granaries or storehouses on-site to keep a few weeks' supply of food but not to try to store years' worth of grain in advance. Egypt had a lot of granaries to store food for years, even a decade. The granaries at the pyramids were just a seasonal work thing and probably of a lower priority in drought/famine years. So while you have a good question, it probably worked out pretty easily in practice. In good years with lots of grain, you bring rural workers to build on your current pyramid and it's easy to keep them fed by bringing grain in via the Nile, keeping a few weeks' supply on-hand just in case something happens to your supply chain. But Egypt did store vast amounts of grain near the banks of the Nile. It was the lifeblood of Egypt, for shipping as well as agriculture. And so, in a famine year, you might suspend or reduce the seasonal labor on the pyramid, reducing or eliminating the extra food needs for large construction projects using human labor. As I mentioned before, if the Egyptians were confident of delivering those huge stones via Nile to build the pyramid, providing the grain for the workforce would be child's play, assuming they had decent harvests or abundant supply in their granaries. Egypt apparently had a very sophisticated commodities market in grains. Including investors who would buy and hold granaries to wait for a better price.
So which came first, the knowledge and technology to build the pit type garineries with supported walls or the pyramids? Would not what was learned from the design of one be incoporated into the design of the other?
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Occam tells us that you'd have granaries long before you had a Great Pyramid. The granary system would be needed to support a large civilization through regular periods of drought. You need the granaries for your civilization's stability and survival. Only when you have an adequate system of granaries would you have the kind of resources needed to build hundreds of pyramids. IOW, feeding the peasants is always necessarily going to rank higher than building monuments to dead monarchs.
Then it is totally reasonable to believe that the design, construction technology, building materials, etc. obtained from the construction of the large scale granaries informed the design of the pyramids. Had Carson said this he would have be a safe ground. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
No doubt. But that isn't what he said.
Had Carson said this he would have be a safe ground. No doubt. But that isn't what he said. Yep, he done f*cked up. Frankly, I would not be comfortable with him as the Rep nominee in the general election. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Evidently there's lots of confusion regarding "Egyptian" history. For example, the extent to which the alleged "slaves" were, in fact, in power during the Middle Kingdom. Yep. I guess Cecil B. Demille and Co. misplaced that brick in their masonic wall.
We still talking about mummy grain?
"Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near"---Isaiah 55:6
We still talking about mummy grain? Better this than most of the fodder comments made on LF. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
What else? This article touches on ancient Egypt using grain as food and as money. One of the few surviving sites that remained undisturbed for so long. UChicago: Archaeologists find silos and administration center from early Egyptian city, 2008
Very interesting.
"Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near"---Isaiah 55:6
I really don't see how this thing is important during the American presidential candidate cycle. I wouldn't care if he had said the first pharaoh may have been from Mars. Can no one recognize a Leftist hit piece on the right? Silliness knows no bounds.
Psalm 37
Published on Nov 11, 2012 This is the Step Pyramid Complex in Saqqara in Egypt. It was designed by Imhotep in the third dynasty of Egypt for King Netjeriket (Pharaoh Zozer). It is also known as the Djoser Pyramid or the first pyramid. It is composed of solid Limestone Blocks and as a result, it is in better condition than the 12th dynasty pyramids that were made largely of unfired mudbricks with only a limestone veneer. The buildings are the first know structures to utilize columns in their architecture. The pyramid is part of a complex which contains several interconnected man made pits in the ground, an open courtyard and a number of buildings which were part of a continuous wall that surrounded the compound. The entrance to the complex is through the main buildings. These square and rectangular pits in the ground are likely to have been used to store grain and retrieve it. One of the pits has stairs and connects to the bottom of the main pit which abuts the courtyard on the side opposite the Step Pyramid within the walls of the complex. The pyramids at Dashur and Giza can be seen from the Step Pyramid (and visa versa). The pyramids would have been useful for navigation and finding the complex even if this was not he main reason that they were built. The pyramids became the tombs of the Pharaohs. Previously, they used Mastabas as tombs. Pharaoh Zozer was buried under the Step Pyramid. The burial chambers may have been added after the pyramid had been built. Many archaelologists and historian have long noted the similarities between Jospeh of the Bible and Imhotep of the third dynasty and it has been suggested that they may have been the same person. The difficult with this theory is that the Egyptian dates do not match the Bibles dates. Recent evidence, however, suggests that the traditional Egyptian dates (which were based on Manetho) may be out by as much as a thousand years (Ref Archaelogist David Down) giving the claim more credence.
It wasn't very long ago that the consensus held that slaves built the pyramids. Now the consensus is that the builders were paid.
I've never thought about it before and have zero experience with or knowledge of what it takes to feed the population of a large city,but it stands to reason they had to have somewhere to store massive amounts of grain,so if not there,where? Are there any "warehouse ruins" from those time periods known? Even back then it took a huge bureaucracy to run a large city,and given they were keeping figures using sticks on clay tablets,probably a larger percentage of the local governments were devoted to food storage and distribution than in modern cities. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Where do we do this? I've never seen or heard of it before. BTW,I have never been in a pyramid before,either. Never had any interest at all in Egypt,either in Biblical or modern times. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I bet they were illegally here too! Yeah,and look at how THAT worked out! A more recent example is American Indians. They also had open border policies. Look at how well that worked out for them. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Dood definitely had an ape-like face with the sloping forehead.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
All over the Plains states. At many grain elevators, they pile more on the ground (and then cover with plastic sheeting) than they keep in the actual grain elevator's bins. They then load it on grain trains so it doesn't stay on the ground long enough to start to rot. The grain trains take it to the Mississippi or the coastal ports.
Seeing the pyramids and other ancient ruins are the only reason anyone goes to Egypt. Which is why their economy used to be 20% tourism. It took a big hit after the rioting and political unrest and hadn't recovered yet. The Russians started going there on vacation instead of to Italy or Spain. But Egypt was cheaper so Russians started going there in big numbers, helping Egypt's tourist sector to recover somewhat. After the recent shootdown of the airliner over the Sinai, Russia has suspended travel to Egypt. Another blow to Egyptian tourism.
In the pyramid next to the one they were building, silly.
BTW,I have never been in a pyramid before,either. Never had any interest at all in Egypt,either in Biblical or modern times. When there are wheat surplusses and insufficient silo capacity this methodology is used to store the grain, you would have to be travelling through wheat country to see it. As Eqypt is an extremely dry place there is not the same problems of storage as encountered in a wet place. This idea that pyramids were grain silos has about as much credibility as pyramids as landing platforms for space craft I have been inside a pyramid, lots of stone, very little space, rooms are not huge as you might think, passages are narrow because afterall they are formed by gaps in rows of stone walls.. Pyramids are not hollow inside, dealing with the weight of thousands of tons of stone must be carefully managed
Are there any "warehouse ruins" from those time periods known? Firstly; you need to look at practicality, The Giza plateau where the pyramids exist is not close to the river and early settlement. It is a dry arid place above the furtile river valley, so noone is going to be transporting large quantities of grain back and forth. Secondly; as I explained earlier ancient buildings were made of mud bricks and adobe, this tends to be eroded over time by wind and rain and we are talking of thousands of years. I have seen a mud building of relatively recent construction become little more than a large blob of mud after a few years and be abandoned. It is for this reason that people ultimately found a way of firing clay bricks. Ancient ruins mainly consist of little more than an outline on the ground or are buried by accumulated dust, vegitation or debris. Successive generations rob the ruins of usable material or build over them. In ancient times we are not talking about a large city as we are today, cities of 100,000 were rare and as we can see in various parts of the world, they ran out of resources and were abandoned. Cities of a few thousand were the norm. People didn't generally make long journeys as we do today because such journeys took months or even years.
DK. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
I should clarify. The only grain I've seen stored outside and covered with a tarp, sometimes for months, is corn. I think wheat is too perishable to be stored outside like that. And wheat is mostly for human consumption where corn is for ethanol plants and livestock feeding operations like feedlots. Corn is also more resistant to rot because it is a harder grain than wheat is. So wheat always gets stored in the elevator, it seems. And they often have wheat from the summer harvest still in those elevator bins when they start dumping corn in huge piles on the ground. In recent years, I've even seen farmers not create their own little corn stash on tarps on the ground that they cover. These are long mounds of corn up to about 6' tall, going maybe a hundred yards. And they just come back over the next month or so to clean it up and haul it to town. Also, you don't have to have a grain cart driver to help you that way. One farmer can harvest it and dump it and then truck it to the elevator after harvest is over. UNL.edu: Computations on Grain Stored in Various Configurations They indicate around 10 grains but I can't even imagine they would ever store soybeans outside under a tarp. Too risky with a high-dollar crop. DDG: images of corn piles outdoors, both covered and uncovered [Notice the big port facilities with mountains of corn, completely uncovered and open to the weather. This comes mostly from the Plains states via barge down the Mississippi where it gets offloaded and reloaded onto cargo ships.]
You may have missed my earlier post. Ramesseum has both storehouses and granaries constructed in similar styles in royal fashion. Try all three links to see the photos. At least, you get to see the best examples of 13th century B.C. Egyptian construction. For an example of what a wealthy pharaoh would use, the best example is the relatively little-known Ramesseum temple complex with a full set of granaries and warehouses. It was the mortuary temple of Rameses II who was the last of the great pharaohs of Egypt, 13th century BCE. [Another good picture is here (TourEgypt.net).] Civilization.org.uk: Ramesseum
Ok,thanks. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
It is important we think and not just accept any idea that floats by, even if it comes out of someone with political aspirations
#22. To: paraclete (#20)
paraclete means 'counsellor'
#23. To: TooConservative (#7)
This really is a red-letter day for LF. We finally found just one thing that you won't believe.
#24. To: TooConservative (#15)
It was not to store grain.
#25. To: Roscoe, SOSO, paraclete, redleghunter (#24)
Where did they store the grain to feed the tens of thousands of laborers on site?
#26. To: TooConservative (#25)
Egypt stored grain to feed the masses primarily in ground pit granaries, covered against the weather.
#27. To: Roscoe (#26)
#28. To: TooConservative (#27)
#29. To: Roscoe (#28)
#30. To: TooConservative (#29)
The pharaoh's buying agents would scour for the best prices around the kingdom to buy and ship to the workers at the site during their work season.
#31. To: Roscoe (#30)
And would they store the grain acquired at seasonally best prices in silos at the pyramid complex to feed the tens of thousands of workers, permanent and seasonal, that lived at the worksite?
#32. To: Roscoe, TooConservative (#26)
#33. To: SOSO (#32)
#34. To: TooConservative (#33)
You need the granaries for your civilization's stability and survival. Only when you have an adequate system of granaries would you have the kind of resources needed to build hundreds of pyramids.
#35. To: SOSO (#34)
Had Carson said this he would have be a safe ground.
#36. To: TooConservative (#35)
#37. To: tpaine (#10)
(Edited)
I agree, --- anyone this confused about history/religion
#38. To: TooConservative (#35)
#39. To: redleghunter, TooConservative (#38)
#40. To: redleghunter, SOSO (#38)
We still talking about mummy grain?
#41. To: TooConservative (#40)
#42. To: Willie Green (#0)
#43. To: TooConservative, roscoe, redleghunger, nolu chan, willie green tomder55, sneakypete (#27)
(Edited)
#44. To: A K A Stone (#43)
#45. To: Roscoe (#44)
#46. To: All (#45)
#47. To: All (#46)
#48. To: SOSO (#16)
Most likely so. But it would be interesting to find some artifact that the massive storage of grain actually happened and where.
#49. To: paraclete (#17)
(Edited)
we also store vast quantities by laying tapaulins on the ground and piling up the grain.
#50. To: redleghunter (#23)
(Edited)
That leaves the only answer...ALIENS.
#51. To: A K A Stone (#45)
#52. To: sneakypete (#49)
Where do we do this? I've never seen or heard of it before.
#53. To: sneakypete (#49)
Never had any interest at all in Egypt,either in Biblical or modern times.
#54. To: Roscoe (#24)
"Where did they store the grain to feed the tens of thousands of laborers on site?"
#55. To: sneakypete (#49)
(Edited)
Where do we do this? I've never seen or heard of it before.
#56. To: sneakypete (#48)
I've never thought about it before and have zero experience with or knowledge of what it takes to feed the population of a large city,but it stands to reason they had to have somewhere to store massive amounts of grain,so if not there,where?
#57. To: sneakypete (#48)
Are there any "warehouse ruins" from those time periods known?
#58. To: paraclete, sneakypete (#55)
When there are wheat surplusses and insufficient silo capacity this methodology is used to store the grain, you would have to be travelling through wheat country to see it.
#59. To: SOSO (#57)
SP: Are there any "warehouse ruins" from those time periods known?
#60. To: paraclete (#55)
When there are wheat surplusses and insufficient silo capacity this methodology is used to store the grain, you would have to be travelling through wheat country to see it.
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