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Title: Egypt's Pyramids Were Grain Silos, Not Tombs
Source:
Lead Stories
URL Source: http://ben-carson.leadstories.com/0 ... ere-grain-silos-not-tombs.html
Published: Nov 5, 2015
Author: Alan Duke
Post Date: 2015-11-05 08:58:10 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 28073
Comments: 60
Ben Carson, one of the Republican frontrunners in the race to be U.S. president, believes archeologists got it wrong about Egypt's pyramids. The huge stone structures were built to store massive quantities of grain, not to serve as tomb for rulers, according to what Carson said in a 1998 graduation speech at Michigan's Andrews University.
And the remarkable pyramids were built not by the pharaohs, but by the biblical Joseph, son of Jacob, Carson hypothesized.
In the Old Testament book of Genesis, Joseph was said to have "stored up grain in great abundance like the sand of the sea, until he stopped measuring it, for it was beyond measure," Carson said in a video of the address. Carson been a popular speaker for conservative Christian groups for years. Here's the speech posted on YouTube:
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#1. To: Willie Green (#0)
At first thought..... wouldn't make sense to spend that much time and extreme trouble building impenetrable fortresses to house grain......for a lot of reasons - IMHO
It is as good a theory as any..... The craziest theory is that humans are created beings, what a dolt. YES I am being sarcastic in one sentence
I can't imagine why you meddled with the video's width.
In the Old Testament book of Genesis, Joseph was said to have "stored up grain in great abundance like the sand of the sea, until he stopped measuring it, for it was beyond measure," I like a lot of what he says, but on this he's just ignorant. At that time, man did not have the tools or knowledge necessary to build the pyramids. One look at the interior will tell you that the pyramids were not grain silos. In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much I just cut & paste and let the chips fall where they may.
Agree completely! Si vis pacem, para bellum Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.
This really is a red-letter day for LF. We finally found just one thing that you won't believe. Would it help if Carson said there was a conspiracy by powerful and cunning Egyptian elites to use the pyramids to store grain? That it was a conspiracy by the Pharaoh and his cronies to perpetrate a pyramid scheme on the helpless citizens of Egypt?
Really? Well, there are many things I don't believe - one of them being that you are anything but a dickwad. And then you ping the police state shill GrandIsland to the thread? Yeh - you're a real class act. Would it help if Carson said there was a conspiracy by powerful and cunning Egyptian elites to use the pyramids to store grain? And your insanity continues unabated. In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much
Non auro, sed ferro, recuperando est patria
Actually, one look at the excellent interior drawing you posted will show most anyone that the pyramid illustrated could have been used as a grain silo. ---- The 'Great Gallery' (at h) and the 'ascending corridor' (at e) could have been used to store millions of tons of grain; -- which could have been poured down the air shaft (at g), -- and retrieved when needed from the entrance shown (at a)... Thus, we can understand how Carson could get the rather odd idea about grain storage.--- I agree, --- anyone this confused about history/religion should not be trusted to hold presidential power.
I see your point but it seems absurd to build something that large for a grain silo and then use only a small portion of it for storage. I don't know of any eminent archaeologists who subscribe to this bizarre theory of Carson's. ...anyone this confused about history/religion should not be trusted to hold presidential power. I am wary of any politician bragging about his or her religiosity (of any stripe). In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much Well, at least one of you are insane, and perhaps a dickwad as well. "Carson’s claims seem to be drawn in part from Egyptologist Dr Wyatt Thom’s 1984 book Egypt Egypt Egypt. According to Thom, the pyramids were built to house grain, and mummified bodies were placed inside as scarecrows to keep birds away. If you’re wondering how that makes sense given that the pyramids are enclosed structures, Thom claims this is because you’re “hamstrung by a very modern conception of birds”. It is entirely possible that the first pryamids had a dual purpose. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Neither the purported "Egypt Egypt Egypt" book or the supposed "Wyatt Thom" author are listed on Amazon. Or Google books. A Google search returns no references to an Egyptologist named "Wyatt Thom" prior to this week. In fact, the only references to "Wyatt Thom" returned by a Google search prior to this week are to a race horse in 2014 and to a 2015 high school graduate. The "hamstrung by a very modern conception of birds" quote is offered without a source document or link. As usual, the Guardian's "fact check" is a pack of lies.
According to Thom, the pyramids were built to house grain, and mummified bodies were placed inside as scarecrows to keep birds away. Neither the purported "Egypt Egypt Egypt" book or the supposed "Wyatt Thom" author are listed on Amazon. Or Google books. Yes, I also did a google search on it after my post. Kind of weird and does not help the credibility of the source of that info. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
It was not to store grain. Monuments to vanity by long-dead monarchs.
Most likely so. But it would be interesting to find some artifact that the massive storage of grain actually happened and where. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Anyone who has been inside a pyramid would understand that only small quantities of grain could be stored inside. Look at the size of the buildings we use to store grain today but we also store vast quantities by laying tapaulins on the ground and piling up the grain. Massive stone silos were not necessary to store large quantities. It is a pity an intelligent person did not do some research before expounding such a dumb theory. The size of the pyramids is impressive but the space available inside is small with narrow passages. The egyptions built their day to day buildings from mud (adobe) and such buildings do not last millenia thus we have no examples of how they store large quantities. You also have to consider the size of the populations. They were not vast millions as we have today. Even the hebrew of Moses day outnumbered the egyptians I do however agree with him regarding the origin of humans, we are a seperate species. Darwin's theories speak of adaptation but seperate species still exist without complete change of form
Just curious, are all pryamids the same? What are the origins of the very first pryamids? Could the first pryamid designs have served a dual function or served as prototypes for the pryamids that did survive? I agree that a civilization that had the wherewithal to design and build the pyramids would have known which geometric shapes would have the more favorable volume/surface area relationship (hence minimum construction materials requirements) - and it isn't a pryamid (fyi, it's a sphere) . Where might the ancient Egyptians store massive quantities of grain in their hot and mostly arid lands to last 5-7 years not only from weather but critters? I am not supporting Carson's contention but can see the possibility of a connection in the development of the pryamid design. BTW, are you the Paraclete of Kaborka? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Well, that would all depend on how hungry your neighbors were...
I don't expect all pyramids are the same, but successful designs are repeated, the great pyramid consisted of a great deal of stone with a relatively small part given over to burial chamnbers, etc. The essential point about them was not to declare how large my grain storages are but how great I am. They took decades to built so the suggestion they were built to house grain for a seven year drought in Joseph's time is just ignoring the facts. It is also very poor strategy to house all your grain in one large structure, if the enemy controls it you are doomed I gave an explanation of one method of storing grain they might have used, very applicable to a dry climate but it is quite possible they constructed buildings as needed. The bybical accounts suggests mud bricks were common so it would not take long to construct such buildings. It is important we think and not just accept any idea that floats by, even if it comes out of someone with political aspirations paraclete means 'counsellor' I am not mexican and therefore not from Kaborka vaya con Dias
I ask you to be willing to think and accept the possibility the the initial design of the very first pryamids (the ones that didn't survive 2000 thousand years) may have been inspired by the design of ancient Egyptian grain storage structures (which also did not survive very long), especially designs incorporating critter control for extended periods of time. I certainly do not think that the pryamids we see today were built for grain storage. I do believe that it is possible that they were inspired by earlier designs of grain storage structures - and ceratinly could have incorporated what Egyptians learned from building grain storage structures. Societies advance by building upon the knowledge of what things work and what do not for the intended purpose. I think that unless you know with reasonable certainity what the original prototype for an Egyptian pryamid actually was you should open up your mind to other real possibilities as you appear to be short sighted in your thinking. You may have the last word on this subject. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Would it help if Carson said there was a conspiracy by powerful and cunning Egyptian elites to use the pyramids to store grain? That it was a conspiracy by the Pharaoh and his cronies to perpetrate a pyramid scheme on the helpless citizens of Egypt? No you completely missed his point. Mankind at the time the Pyramids were constructed did not have the tools nor the know-how. That leaves the only answer...ALIENS. I bet they were illegally here too! "Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near"---Isaiah 55:6
Maybe. Where did they store the grain to feed the tens of thousands of laborers on site?
These pyramids are not hollow. They are solid masses of rocks constructed with a few tiny narrow passages into them. The passages are a tiny fraction of 1% of the pyramid's internal volume. Egypt used granaries to feed the large population of workers in Babylon and other ancient cities across the arid region of the Mideast and northern Africa. Famine was a regular feature of life. Egypt stored grain to feed the masses primarily in ground pit granaries, covered against the weather. Ancient Egypt was wetter than now but it was still a very dry climate so a covered pit of grain might have lasted a decade or more there. For an example of what a wealthy pharaoh would use, the best example is the relatively little-known Ramesseum temple complex with a full set of granaries and warehouses. It was the mortuary temple of Rameses II who was the last of the great pharaohs of Egypt, 13th century BCE. [Another good picture is here (TourEgypt.net).] Civilization.org.uk: Ramesseum But Ramesseum would have been the high-end of the whole granary scene in ancient Egypt. For feeding the masses, it would be large covered ground pits in carefully chosen locations. Naturally, they would try to seal them very tight and put only very dry grain in them. Ancient Egypt had a commodities market of sorts that allowed trading of grain held in storage. After all, Joseph's brothers did travel to Egypt to purchase grain during a famine because Egypt was an agricultural superpower of the era. It is interesting to consider what ancient Egypt was like during the time the Israelites were captive workers there. They would have been fed, like the Egyptian working class, out of these covered-pit granaries. And the Ramesseum's storehouses and granaries would have been reserved for its priests and other staff. The general topic of grain storage and grain commerce and occasional drought/famine and the danger of locusts to food supply, are key elements of a number of stories in the Old Testament.
Like this?
Yep. Nice find. A vital development in the history of agriculture and civilization.
I wonder if they were part of the pyramid complexes? Some people have claimed that.
There are a lot of theories about the workforce, who they were, how they were paid (if they were), their housing, food supply, etc. The prevailing thinking is that the workers were seasonal workers from agricultural areas who came during the off-season to earn extra money. They stayed in tents and huts near the pyramid for a month or two. And they would naturally have some local grain depot. But given that the pyramid's stones were being transported by boat on the Nile, it would be easy enough to bring in grain as well to feed the seasonal workers. The pharaoh's buying agents would scour for the best prices around the kingdom to buy and ship to the workers at the site during their work season.
And would they store the grain acquired at seasonally best prices in silos at the pyramid complex to feed the tens of thousands of workers, permanent and seasonal, that lived at the worksite? "The workers may be sub-divided into a permanent workforce of some 5,000 salaried employees who lived, together with their families and dependents, in a well-established pyramid village. There would also have been up to 20,000 temporary workers who arrived to work three- or four-month shifts, and who lived in a less sophisticated camp established alongside the pyramid village." http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egyptians/pyramid_builders_01.shtml
In all likelihood, they would only bring the seasonal workers in from the countryside in years where they knew they had adequate grain supplies to feed them. You have to feed working men a lot more food than if they passed the slow season at home until the next year's farm work began. So I would expect they would have granaries or storehouses on-site to keep a few weeks' supply of food but not to try to store years' worth of grain in advance. Egypt had a lot of granaries to store food for years, even a decade. The granaries at the pyramids were just a seasonal work thing and probably of a lower priority in drought/famine years. So while you have a good question, it probably worked out pretty easily in practice. In good years with lots of grain, you bring rural workers to build on your current pyramid and it's easy to keep them fed by bringing grain in via the Nile, keeping a few weeks' supply on-hand just in case something happens to your supply chain. But Egypt did store vast amounts of grain near the banks of the Nile. It was the lifeblood of Egypt, for shipping as well as agriculture. And so, in a famine year, you might suspend or reduce the seasonal labor on the pyramid, reducing or eliminating the extra food needs for large construction projects using human labor. As I mentioned before, if the Egyptians were confident of delivering those huge stones via Nile to build the pyramid, providing the grain for the workforce would be child's play, assuming they had decent harvests or abundant supply in their granaries. Egypt apparently had a very sophisticated commodities market in grains. Including investors who would buy and hold granaries to wait for a better price.
So which came first, the knowledge and technology to build the pit type garineries with supported walls or the pyramids? Would not what was learned from the design of one be incoporated into the design of the other?
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Occam tells us that you'd have granaries long before you had a Great Pyramid. The granary system would be needed to support a large civilization through regular periods of drought. You need the granaries for your civilization's stability and survival. Only when you have an adequate system of granaries would you have the kind of resources needed to build hundreds of pyramids. IOW, feeding the peasants is always necessarily going to rank higher than building monuments to dead monarchs.
Then it is totally reasonable to believe that the design, construction technology, building materials, etc. obtained from the construction of the large scale granaries informed the design of the pyramids. Had Carson said this he would have be a safe ground. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
No doubt. But that isn't what he said.
Had Carson said this he would have be a safe ground. No doubt. But that isn't what he said. Yep, he done f*cked up. Frankly, I would not be comfortable with him as the Rep nominee in the general election. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Evidently there's lots of confusion regarding "Egyptian" history. For example, the extent to which the alleged "slaves" were, in fact, in power during the Middle Kingdom. Yep. I guess Cecil B. Demille and Co. misplaced that brick in their masonic wall.
We still talking about mummy grain?
"Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near"---Isaiah 55:6
We still talking about mummy grain? Better this than most of the fodder comments made on LF. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
What else? This article touches on ancient Egypt using grain as food and as money. One of the few surviving sites that remained undisturbed for so long. UChicago: Archaeologists find silos and administration center from early Egyptian city, 2008
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#2. To: Willie Green (#0)
#3. To: Willie Green (#0)
#4. To: Willie Green (#0)
And the remarkable pyramids were built not by the pharaohs, but by the biblical Joseph, son of Jacob, Carson hypothesized.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#5. To: TooConservative (#3)
I can't imagine why you meddled with the video's width.
#6. To: patriot wes (#1)
" wouldn't make sense to spend that much time and extreme trouble building impenetrable fortresses to house grain....."
#7. To: Deckard, GrandIsland (#4)
#8. To: TooConservative (#7)
(Edited)
We finally found just one thing that you won't believe.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#9. To: Willie Green (#5)
#10. To: Deckard, Y'ALL (#4)
One look at the interior will tell you that the pyramids were not grain silos.
I like a lot of what he says, but on this he's just ignorant.
#11. To: tpaine (#10)
(Edited)
Actually, one look at the excellent interior drawing you posted will show most anyone that the pyramid illustrated could have been used as a grain silo
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#12. To: Deckard, TooConservative (#8)
And your insanity continues unabated.
#13. To: SOSO (#12)
According to Thom, the pyramids were built to house grain, and mummified bodies were placed inside as scarecrows to keep birds away.
#14. To: Roscoe (#13)
#15. To: SOSO (#12)
It is entirely possible that the first pryamids had a dual purpose.
#16. To: TooConservative (#15)
It was not to store grain. Monuments to vanity by long-dead monarchs.
#17. To: SOSO (#16)
(Edited)
#18. To: paraclete (#17)
Anyone who has been inside a pyramid would understand that only small quantities of grain could be stored inside.
#19. To: patriot wes (#1)
...wouldn't make sense to spend that much time and extreme trouble
building impenetrable fortresses to house grain......
#20. To: SOSO (#18)
(Edited)
Just curious, are all pyramids the same?
#21. To: paraclete (#20)
It is important we think and not just accept any idea that floats by, even if it comes out of someone with political aspirations
#22. To: paraclete (#20)
paraclete means 'counsellor'
#23. To: TooConservative (#7)
This really is a red-letter day for LF. We finally found just one thing that you won't believe.
#24. To: TooConservative (#15)
It was not to store grain.
#25. To: Roscoe, SOSO, paraclete, redleghunter (#24)
Where did they store the grain to feed the tens of thousands of laborers on site?
#26. To: TooConservative (#25)
Egypt stored grain to feed the masses primarily in ground pit granaries, covered against the weather.
#27. To: Roscoe (#26)
#28. To: TooConservative (#27)
#29. To: Roscoe (#28)
#30. To: TooConservative (#29)
The pharaoh's buying agents would scour for the best prices around the kingdom to buy and ship to the workers at the site during their work season.
#31. To: Roscoe (#30)
And would they store the grain acquired at seasonally best prices in silos at the pyramid complex to feed the tens of thousands of workers, permanent and seasonal, that lived at the worksite?
#32. To: Roscoe, TooConservative (#26)
#33. To: SOSO (#32)
#34. To: TooConservative (#33)
You need the granaries for your civilization's stability and survival. Only when you have an adequate system of granaries would you have the kind of resources needed to build hundreds of pyramids.
#35. To: SOSO (#34)
Had Carson said this he would have be a safe ground.
#36. To: TooConservative (#35)
#37. To: tpaine (#10)
(Edited)
I agree, --- anyone this confused about history/religion
#38. To: TooConservative (#35)
#39. To: redleghunter, TooConservative (#38)
#40. To: redleghunter, SOSO (#38)
We still talking about mummy grain?
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