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Title: The GOP's War against the Freedom of the Press
Source:
Salon
URL Source: http://www.salon.com/2015/11/01/gop ... he_rights_war_on_a_free_press/
Published: Nov 1, 2015
Author: Heather Cox Richardson
Post Date: 2015-11-01 09:15:39 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 4028
Comments: 36
According to the Republican contenders for the presidency who “debated” on CNBC Wednesday night, America’s problems today are caused by “the mainstream media,” which is “the ultimate super PAC” for the Democrats. This charge is nothing new. Since the 1950s, Movement Conservatives have fought the fair examination of their ideas. They embrace a worldview in which a few wealthy men control the economy and dominate society. This idea repels most Americans. When voters can see it clearly, they oppose it. Movement Conservatives have gained power only by obfuscating reality. They make war on the media because it sheds daylight on their machinations. Transparency threatens their power. In 1951, a young William F. Buckley, Jr. began the war on the American media. He joined big businessmen in hating the New Deal consensus that called for government regulation and social welfare measures to protect workers. Surely, government bureaucrats should not tell society’s leaders how to run their businesses. Such such an intrusion undermined God’s organization of a proper society, one with a few select leaders on top. In “God and Man at Yale,” Buckley railed that secular New Dealers were destroying America. The principles of religion and a free market economy were non-negotiable, he insisted. Unfortunately, when given fair access to facts, Americans chose secular ideas and business regulation. The only way to return Christianity and individualism to dominance in American society was to inculcate those values in followers. He showed how to do this in the book itself: he misrepresented his opponents, he cherry-picked quotations to make them sound damning, he posed as a persecuted victim. When voters elected Republican Dwight Eisenhower president in the following year on a platform he called the “Middle Way,” big-business Republicans were horrified that the heresies of government regulation had infected their own party. They insisted government regulation was communism, and it was destroying the country. Trying to undercut the president, they attacked media that supported Eisenhower, including the New York Times, the Washington Post, Time, and Life, as communist rags. In 1954, Buckley and his brother-in-law L. Brent Bozell attacked the American media itself. In “McCarthy and His Enemies,” they divided the nation into two factions. There were a few, true Americans—people like them—who stood for American values. They called this tiny faction “Conservatives.” These Conservatives stood against the “Liberals”—the vast majority of Americans who accepted the idea of government regulation–who were forcing communism and secularism on America. These Liberals, they claimed, were winning politically because they had taken over college campuses, the government and the national media. To combat the “liberal media” Buckley launched the National Review in 1955, promising to return America to its true principles. Movement Conservatives jumped on the idea that a cabal of liberals in the media was undermining their political success. Their worldview was correct, dictated by God even, so that anyone who disagreed must either be evil or misled. The only way to explain Goldwater’s disastrous loss in 1964 was that a liberal media “propaganda machine” had sabotaged him. The Nixon administration took this idea a step further to explain away its own disasters. Increasingly embattled by anti-war protesters, Nixon’s men insisted that their policies were popular, but a hostile popular press was misleading the public. In November 1969, Vice President Spiro Agnew railed against the eastern elites who controlled major media networks. The following year, he uttered speechwriter William Safire’s famous dictum that anti-Nixon reporters were simply the “nattering nabobs of negativism” and made a thinly veiled threat that if reporters didn’t back off, the administration would start to regulate them. Nixon’s hatred of the press became so consuming that he created the “Plumbers” investigations unit to stop leaks. The Washington Post’s continued gnawing at the Watergate scandal made Nixon’s hatred of the press complete. When he resigned, he blamed his downfall not on the criminal activities in his own White House, but rather on the “leaks and accusations and innuendo” published by the liberal media. Under Ronald Reagan, hatred of the liberal media took on a storybook quality. Reagan had honed his political skills as a spokesman for General Electric. His motivational speeches emphasized the Movement Conservative worldview, in which hard-working individuals could rise to prosperity so long as they embraced faith and the pesky government stayed out of the way. Fact checking had no place in such a vision, and he dismissed as liberal haters the reporters who laughed at his blithe reworking of reality. In the Reagan years, Movement Conservatives increasingly insisted that their ideas were unpopular only because the liberal media treated them unfairly. During Reagan’s presidency, the FCC accepted the idea that fact-based reporting had an inherent liberal bias. It abandoned the fairness doctrine that required media to present both sides of an argument. With that abandonment, Movement Conservatives were free to push their own worldview, free of facts. In October 1996, Movement Conservatism gained its own “fair and balanced” media channel. Fox News Channel is fair and balanced, in their view, because it presents an alternative to the fact-based reality of “liberals.” On Fox, a few white men reign unchallenged in a world of Christianity and free-market capitalism. This worldview is inherently right. Those who challenge it are, by definition, a biased liberal media. This insistence on a false reality was in full force Wednesday. When charged with his connection to the disreputable nutritional supplements company Mannatech, Dr. Ben Carson denied any involvement with it. He lied. When Becky Quick asked Donald Trump to explain his assertion that Senator Marco Rubio was “Mark Zuckerberg’s personal senator,” Trump denied that he had ever said such a thing. He lied (that exact phrase was on his campaign website). When asked about the national debt, Senator Ted Cruz ranted that such a question simply illustrated “why the American people don’t trust the media,” then went on to misrepresent the substantive questions the moderators had asked by turning them into cartoon sound bites. Carly Fiorina’s astonishing lie was in the last debate, when she insisted—contrary to all evidence—that she had seen a video in which Planned Parenthood employees murdered a baby to sell its organs. These lies are symptoms of the real problem: that the rigid ideology of Movement Conservatives concentrates power in a very few wealthy men. When asked to justify with actual math the regressive economic policies that underlie all of their candidacies, the candidates obfuscated. Their numbers do not add up, as they have not added up since President Reagan’s budget director David Stockman notoriously made supply-side tax policy work with a “magic asterisk” that represented cuts and loophole closures to be made later. Charged with the fact that his ideas do not work in the real world, Carson simply said “that’s not true… when we put all the facts down, you’ll be able to see that it’s not true, it works out very well.” In psychology, trying to force others to accept the reality of a fake world is called gaslighting. It got its name from the 1944 film “Gaslight,” in which a husband convinces his wife and their neighbors that she is insane. He repeatedly dims the lights in the house and, when she calls attention to the fading lights, insists that the change is entirely in her own head. The only way to stop gaslighting is to shine the light of reality onto a situation. That makes it imperative for the perpetrator to keep victims in the dark. Are Movement Conservatives gaslighting voters by trying to keep the media from reporting on their fake reality? After the debate, Ted Cruz sent out a fundraising letter “declaring war on the liberal media.” On Friday, the Republican National Committee pulled out of the planned Feb. 26 NBC debate. RNC Chairman Reince Priebus wrote a letter to NBC News chairman Andrew Lack saying that the CNBC debates was “conducted in bad faith,” and had asked “a series of ‘gotcha’ questions, petty and mean-spirited in tone, and designed to embarrass our candidates.” Is it getting dark in here? Poster Comment: Yep, the Cockroaches despise the media because they fear being exposed.The real story behind CNBC debate, and Fox News' very existence,
comes down to the right's fear of being exposed
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#1. To: Willie Green (#0)
I'm waiting for the war against progressives. Where we get to blow their heads off their shoulders.
The media is in lock-step with a failed USA government; the poor candidates want to discuss issues about the failed USA government, not petty issues that keep Americans in the dark. Fuck NBC,CBS,ABC,CNN and all these associated organizations.
LOL !! When it starts, be sure to post a notice to ALL. Si vis pacem, para bellum Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.
I would waste my time tearing apart this article but its by salon. The left nut of the dimwit party. Anyone that waste their time on it has more time than rip van winkle or hasn't figured out who salon is!
In “God and Man at Yale,” Buckley railed that secular New Dealers were destroying America. The only question out of the paragraph of opinions worth an answer. Did the "New Dealers" destroy America? The answer is a resounding and obvious yes.
Cliven Bundy pisses on the Willie Green BLM first amendment area gulag, Bunkerville, NV First Amendment Area - in between Mexico + Canada It's been conveniently forgotten by the left who got us into that war. When people want to thank me for my military service I tell them, "Don't thank me. I was kidnapped by the draft board and made a prisoner in Mr. Kennedy's and Mr. McNamara's army." When I graduated from basic training in 1961 piles of guys in our training class were running around with orders in their hands saying they were being sent to a place called Viet Nam and asking, "Where is it? What is it? What are we doing there?" McNamara, with his fiercely stern looks, his granny glasses, and his complete lack of military experience was micromanaging everything and intimidating even presidents Kennedy and Johnson. The American military, to the tune of waves of close to 500,000 men, was sent there to lose, thereby proving the invincibility of the so called communist peoples movement which appealed to the great mass of leftist intellectuals. That was the ultimate mission that was accomplished. At the end of that time, it was turned over to Nixon and he was, and still is, blamed for all of it.
The scary thing is you lefties are so clueless that you actually believe this,while completely ignoring the truth that the western media has been dominated by the globalist left since the mid 1960's. It started back in the 40's,but the left didn't start to take control until after the mid-60's. And you dingbats are completely blind to it. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Close,but no cigar,even though that is what the 'murikan left believes and gets wood thinking about. The truth is that the US media is completely controlled by the globalist billionaires that want a global government ran by them. The 'murikan dingbats that suppport this and think it is a good thing will be crying in their vomit as they are loaded aboard the cattle cars once again. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Robert,no US combat troops were being sent to VN in 1961. ESPECIALLY not any draftees or anyone fresh out of basic. Other than the military staff at the embassy,the only US military people in VN in 61 were a VERY few SF advisers. You do make a valid point about it being a Dim war,though. Truman was the one that signed the first treaty that set things in motion from the US side,and JFK and his brother Robert were the ones that really got the ball rolling by vastly increasing the number of SF troops there and allowing them to go on combat missions. Then it was JFK that really blew it all up,and I am almost positive the fact that Lady Bird and her relatives having major stock in Pacific Architects and Engineering had absolutely nothing to do with that. The fact that they got almost all of the US contracts to build road,bridges,bases,airfields,telephone systems,and everything else in SVN was purely a coincidence. BTW,I have argued with people who want to insist that "It was Nixon's war. He was the one that started it!",when the truth is Nixon was the only president that ever tried to actually fight it and defeat the communists. Maybe the only good thing he ever did. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
If I happen to meet any that were there and came back, I'll tell them that.
Do that. Mark them down as being liars while you are at it. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
At the beginning of 1961 we had 675 advisers in South Vietnam, by the end of 1961 we had 3205, and at the end of 1962 the number was over 10,000. Non auro, sed ferro, recuperando est patria
The intention within my earlier post was to educate good ol' Willie about the global cabal (MSM, etc.) that has massive influences into and outof the US Government before reaching the wee, wittle people like you and me; of course, the cabal includes the international business community, whom you affectionately call, "globalist billionaires" but the cabal is not limited to your affectionate scapegoat, either. They have no other direction anyway. So what? They vote? They just think they vote because they are allowed to think they are "free."
But they are very prominent within it, and they draw great benefits from it. And a lot of times, they are the same. Look at Sheldon Adelson, Mark Zuckerberg, George Soros and the Koch brothers as a few examples. Non auro, sed ferro, recuperando est patria
At the beginning of 1961 we had 675 advisers in South Vietnam, by the end of 1961 we had 3205, and at the end of 1962 the number was over 10,000. The numbers you posted are meaningless because the word "adviser" has such a broad meaning. The numbers you cite include economic advisers,veterinary advisers,medical advisers,political advisers,etc,etc,etc. There were no more than a handful of military advisers in SVN in 1961. Most were SF soldiers,but there were also conventional army armor,engineering,medical,and other advisers,as well as USAF advisers to the SVN AF and most likely a few US Navy advisers to their very small Navy. Bt 1962 the vast expansion in numbers was related directly to the civilian and humanitarian effort that included agencies like US AID,the Peace Corps,and others with similar goals. I have never done any research on it,but I seriously doubt there were even 10,000 SF soldiers in the army and reserved combined in 1961 or 1962,and the KEY FACT IS THAT NOT A SINGLE SOLDIER THAT WAS THERE IN 1961 OR 1962 WAS A DRAFTEE OR ANYONE ON THEIR FIRST ENLISTMENT. They were all senior NCO's or officers that had a lot of experience in their fields because they were there to both train the SVN and to advise the US political class as to the capabilities of the SVN government and army. People on first enlistments or draftees don't do that. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
In one way or another,the entire western media is owned or controlled by a very few people who are working in concert to take over political control over the whole planet and reign as the undisputed leaders. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I'll vet you are one of those authorities that believe only regular army volunters wound up in Special Forces. One of the draftees in our company was sent to special forces by the company commander. Was he pissed? You bet. Like most of us, he was drafted under protest and only wanted out. But the CO told him it was an honor to serve in such a capacity that was not to be questioned or rejected, and that was it. A counter-argument made him elgible for time in barbed wire village. When the army has you, it can do whatever they want with you. What it tells the public, the other military, or the press, about what it's doing with you, is entirely irrelevant.
The USSC permits international business conglomerates to influence US elections, even if they are not US citizens. But for the little guy on the street in America, otherwise known as John Q. Citizen, the USSC says nothing at all. What is frustrating is the US Constitution to include the Bill of Rights was designed to preserve individual liberites, rights and freedoms against foreign and domestic oppression. The GODDAMNED US GOVERNMENT (all three branches) is not constrained by the US Constitution at all.
An absolute total lie. For one thing commanders don't arrange unit transfers. IF anyone was a draftee and was sent to SF,he would have been sent to the group Headquarters or Signal Company as support personnel. Support personnel are NOT special forces soldiers,and they do not do any fighting. They are people like finance clerks,chaplin's assistants,motor pool personnel at the SFOB,etc,etc,etc. On top of that,THERE WAS NO SF GROUP IN VN in 61 or 62 and THERE WERE NO SUPPORT TROOPS SENT THERE. The only ones that went were a few A teams from the 1st,and IIRC,the 7th Group. There was no SF Group to need support personnel in VN until the 5th Group was sent there in 1965. BTW,I spent almost 7 years in SF. How many years did you spend wearing a beret? Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
None. But that doesn't prevent me from observing and thinking. I keep my ear close to the ground. One of our principle advisors in Viet Nam was an undercover general in the North VN army. He was a general in both armies working for the enemy. He gave us advice that was self defeating. After the war he said he was surprised that we were stupid enough to take it, but we did. I didn't want any part of that shit. What people think they know about Viet Nam doesn't mean squat. If someone was over there, it still doesn't mean squat.
You don't even know the difference between a US adviser and a Vietnamese double agent,yet you feel qualified to pontificate about US advisers? HEY! There were Russian and Chinese advisers for the North Vietnamese army and Air Force,also. Maybe they went through US Army basic training with you in 1961,and were American advisers,too? What people think they know about Viet Nam doesn't mean squat. I couldn't have said it better,myself! If someone was over there, it still doesn't mean squat. Uh,huh. You just keep telling yourself that,bubba. BUT.....,people who were over there and people who were in the army in 1961 know that US combat troops weren't being sent there in 1961. People who have even the most basic knowledge of the VN war know that the USMC were the first conventional forces to land in VN,and that was in 1965. I didn't want any part of that shit. Well,ain't YOU "special"! I'm sure that was based on your personal morality,and not your selfish sense of personal cowardice,huh? Talk a lot of shit about freedom,but not willing to fight for it? Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Men weren't being sent to Viet Nam to fight for freedom. They were being sent there by defective personalities in our government and military to be systematically ground down and lose for the sake of their own image or ideological mission. There's a long black wall in Washington with many tens of thousands of names listed of men who died for nothing but other people's childishness and ideological distortion. My life is not something for vacuous kooks to play with. If that bothers you, stick it up your ass. My advice to you is to put down the bull shit you were hyped up on as part of your military indoctrination and do some serious studying. Start with McNamara's first book, "remeniscences" I think it's called, that records meetings with the pretty-boy criminal psychopath Kennedy and his pals for an eye opener. If that doesn't scare the hell out of you and make you angry you're hopeless. I know many of you people like to believe your military service was in the cause of righteousness and patriotism. It's time to begin the painful process of growing up, putting it aside, and realize you were played for suckers and still remain suckers.
Spoken like the justifying coward that you are. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
+10 DAMN! That was a great post.
Spoken like the justifying coward that you are. Spoken like a little kid defending his indoctrinated esprit de corps. They give muscle-bound idiots a green beanie, shake their hand, and tell them how smart they are and let them strut like supermen. You have no idea how you were being manipulated and exploited by kooks from behind the scenes. I'll bet you could not give me the name of the general advising us who was also secretly a general in the North Vietnamese army and what he did to sabotage us. You don't like my use of advisor. So what? I'll bet you could not give me the circumstances surrounding Diem's assassination. Do you know what the agroville program was and who started it? You might know what X-ray because of the documentary film "We were soldiers" ths story of Lt. Colonel Hal Moore and Sgt. Major Basil Plumly. In the unedited version Plumly says. "Does it sound like an ambush to you?" We were ambushed. Do you know what L. Z. Albany was and what happened there? You say I'm a coward? You think you've had it rough? I've been in situations in civilian life that would make you pee down both legs. I'm old, crippled and out of the picture any more. I go to the VA hospital and tell the doctors there I used to squat 750 pounds. The doctors tell me that's not possible for a man to do that. They're wrong, but I am required to swallow the insult. For Chistmas this year I'm giving myself a hand made Dotanuki in rememberance of times past.
Not only a coward,but also a clueless pompous ass to boot. Everybody in SF has an IQ high enough to get in any school in the country. In fact,the IQ requirement alone eliminates probably 90 percent of the people that volunteer for SF training. AND......,there is no such critter as a SF-qualified witch doctor/shrink. I'm betting you spent your two years on AD changing oil and flat tires in the motor pool. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I'm surprised you think fighting against world-wide communism was a stupid thing to do. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Well, let's see. I remember in 1963 signing a piece of paper for a military recruiter. I agreed to do certain things for the Government which the representative of the Government said the government would do certain things for me. That's why it's called a contract. The things that you mentioned I don't seem to remember being a part of the contract. But, that was all a long time ago and I do forget some things. When I retired 24 years 9 months and 3 days after that original contract, I had done certain things and the Government had done certain things. Neither party of that original contract had broken it. Things happen in life, Good things and bad, In the service and out. But, that's all a part of life. I do remember volunteering for the service, and I even volunteered for Vietnam. I was happy to leave Nam, but I volunteered for anything that happened there.
Psalm 37
I can't argue with that,but any time you can kill a communist,it's been a good day. Damn shame the pinheads with influence in this country has let them take over both the Dim and the alleged Republican parties. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
I don't believe it. You're peeing on my leg and trying to convince me it's raining. What's the median IQ of special forces and the median IQ at MIT or IIT? I'm betting you spent your two years on AD changing oil and flat tires in the motor pool. Never been in a military motor pool.
What's the median IQ of special forces and the median IQ at MIT or IIT? The minimum GT score is 110 ,which is a lower number than a IQ score. It used to be 120 when I was in the army,but chances are they have changed the tests since then and I have no idea if they are easier or tougher now. BTW,a GT score of 110 or higher is also necessary to be accepted for officer training. And speaking of MIT,I served with a SSG in VN that was a recon team leader that was going to MIT to get a degree as a electrican engineer in 1962,but was bored so he quit after 2 years and enlisted in the army. He had a full-ride scholarship going,too. He ended up serving over 20 years on active duty,and retired as the CSM of the Special Warfare Center at Bragg. You talk a lot of crap,but seem to actually know nothing about the army. BTW,I was called out of training twice in basic to hear recruiting spiels by both the Army Security Agency and Special Forces. Anybody try to recruit you while YOU were in basic? Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
If I ever had serious evidence that my IQ was as low as 120, I'd blow my brains out. As of about 40 years ago, the median IQ of engineers was 132. That's a bit more than two standard deviations above average intelligence. To do well as an engineer, you had better have an IQ above that. Someone with an IQ of 120 has little chance of graduating from a high quality college in a rigorous course of study. In many cases they won't even be accepted as a student. At the time I was in the army, an IQ of 120 was sufficient to qualify someone for any MOS. I was not recruited for anything when I was in the army. I was recruited as a civilian later on. A visiting professor of electrical engineering wanted to take me to Australia, but said the unions would not allow me to work there because I did too many things. The mainland Chinese keep track of everything and everybody of substance that goes on here. I got a call from a representative of the Chinese government with a job offer in research. My political position and that of the mainland government were antithetical. I declined the offer. If I had it to do over, I would have accepted given what America has become. And so forth...
If you had an IQ of 120 you would realize the IQ tests have changed several times since the 1940'a. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Don't make assumptions that I am not aware of some changes or the reasons for them.
#2. To: Willie Green (#0)
#3. To: A K A Stone (#1)
" I'm waiting for the war against progressives. Where we get to blow their heads off their shoulders "
#4. To: Willie Green (#0)
#5. To: Willie Green (#0)
In 1951, a young William F. Buckley, Jr. began the war on the American media. He joined big businessmen in hating the New Deal consensus that called for government regulation and social welfare measures to protect workers. Surely, government bureaucrats should not tell society’s leaders how to run their businesses. Such such an intrusion undermined God’s organization of a proper society, one with a few select leaders on top. In “God and Man at Yale,” Buckley railed that secular New Dealers were destroying America. The principles of religion and a free market economy were non-negotiable, he insisted. Unfortunately, when given fair access to facts, Americans chose secular ideas and business regulation. The only way to return Christianity and individualism to dominance in American society was to inculcate those values in followers. He showed how to do this in the book itself: he misrepresented his opponents, he cherry-picked quotations to make them sound damning, he posed as a persecuted victim.
#6. To: Willie Green (#0)
(Edited)
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#7. To: Willie Green (#0)
(Edited)
The Nixon administration took this idea a step further to explain away its own disasters. Increasingly embattled by anti-war protesters, Nixon’s men insisted that their policies were popular, but a hostile popular press was misleading the public.
#8. To: Willie Green (#0)
This charge is nothing new. Since the 1950s, Movement Conservatives have fought the fair examination of their ideas. They embrace a worldview in which a few wealthy men control the economy and dominate society. This idea repels most Americans. When voters can see it clearly, they oppose it. Movement Conservatives have gained power only by obfuscating reality. They make war on the media because it sheds daylight on their machinations. Transparency threatens their power.
#9. To: buckeroo (#2)
The media is in lock-step with a failed USA government
#10. To: rlk (#7)
(Edited)
When I graduated from basic training in 1961 piles of guys in our training class were running around with orders in their hands saying they were being sent to a place called Viet Nam and asking, "Where is it? What is it? What are we doing there?"
#11. To: sneakypete (#10)
Robert,no US combat troops were being sent to VN in 1961.
#12. To: rlk (#11)
If I happen to meet any that were there and came back, I'll tell them that.
#13. To: rlk (#11)
If I happen to meet any that were there and came back, I'll tell them that.
#14. To: sneakypete, Willie Green (#9)
Close,but no cigar ..
The 'murikan dingbats that suppport this and think it is a good thing will be crying in their vomit as they are loaded aboard the cattle cars once again.
#15. To: buckeroo (#14)
...the cabal includes the international business community, whom you affectionately call, "globalist billionaires" but the cabal is not limited to your affectionate scapegoat, either.
#16. To: nativist nationalist (#13)
If I happen to meet any that were there and came back, I'll tell them that.
#17. To: nativist nationalist (#15)
But they are very prominent within it, and they draw great benefits from it. And a lot of times, they are the same. Look at Sheldon Adelson, Mark Zuckerberg, George Soros and the Koch brothers as a few examples.
#18. To: sneakypete (#10)
Robert,no US combat troops were being sent to VN in 1961. ESPECIALLY not any draftees or anyone fresh out of basic.
#19. To: nativist nationalist (#15)
But they are very prominent within it, and they draw great benefits from it. And a lot of times, they are the same. Look at Sheldon Adelson, Mark Zuckerberg, George Soros and the Koch brothers as a few examples.
#20. To: rlk (#18)
I'll vet you are one of those authorities that believe only regular army volunters wound up in Special Forces. One of the draftees in our company was sent to special forces by the company commander.
#21. To: sneakypete (#20)
(Edited)
BTW,I spent almost 7 years in SF. How many years did you spend wearing a beret?
#22. To: rlk (#21)
One of our principle advisors in Viet Nam was an undercover general in the North VN army.
#23. To: sneakypete (#22)
(Edited)
Well,ain't YOU "special"! I'm sure that was based on your personal morality,and not your selfish sense of personal cowardice,huh? Talk a lot of shit about freedom,but not willing to fight for it?
#24. To: rlk (#23)
I know many of you people like to believe your military service was in the cause of righteousness and patriotism. It's time to begin the painful process of growing up, putting it aside, and realize you were played for suckers and still remain suckers.
#25. To: rlk (#23)
#26. To: sneakypete (#24)
I know many of you people like to believe your military service was in the cause of righteousness and patriotism. It's time to begin the painful process of growing up, putting it aside, and realize you were played for suckers and still remain suckers.
#27. To: rlk (#26)
They give muscle-bound idiots a green beanie, shake their hand, and tell them how smart they are and let them strut like supermen.
#28. To: buckeroo (#25)
+10 DAMN! That was a great post.
#29. To: rlk (#23)
#30. To: sneakypete, rlk (#28)
rlk: Men weren't being sent to Viet Nam to fight for freedom. They were being sent there by defective personalities in our government and military to be systematically ground down and lose for the sake of their own image or ideological mission. There's a long black wall in Washington with many tens of thousands of names listed of men who died for nothing but other people's childishness and ideological distortion. My life is not something for vacuous kooks to play with. If that bothers you, stick it up your ass. My advice to you is to put down the bull shit you were hyped up on as part of your military indoctrination and do some serious studying. Start with McNamara's first book, "remeniscences" I think it's called, that records meetings with the pretty-boy criminal psychopath Kennedy and his pals for an eye opener. If that doesn't scare the hell out of you and make you angry you're hopeless.
I know many of you people like to believe your military service was in the cause of righteousness and patriotism. It's time to begin the painful process of growing up, putting it aside, and realize you were played for suckers and still remain suckers.
buckeroo: +10 DAMN! That was a great post.
sneakypete: I'm surprised you think fighting against world-wide communism was a stupid thing to do.
Fighting? Mere fighting? Let me remind you that is all America is getting out of the deal with the politicians in charge of the military machine; the politicians declare an offensive posture, place troops in harm's way and then pull out or end up supporting that nation's defense system forever. America hasn't won a war since WW2 and you know it. Nope, I think we should be WINNING A WAR once we step into the ring; we should establish clear objectives that are measurable WINNING policies based on iron-clad strategy.
#31. To: buckeroo (#30)
Nope, I think we should be WINNING A WAR once we step into the ring; we should establish clear objectives that are measurable WINNING policies based on iron-clad strategy.
#32. To: sneakypete (#27)
(Edited)
Everybody in SF has an IQ high enough to get in any school in the country.
#33. To: rlk (#32)
(Edited)
I don't believe it. You're peeing on my leg and trying to convince me it's raining.
#34. To: sneakypete (#33)
(Edited)
The minimum GT score is 110 ,which is a lower number than a IQ score. It used to be 120 when I was in the army,but chances are they have changed the tests since then and I have no idea if they are easier or tougher now.
#35. To: rlk (#34)
If I ever had serious evidence that my IQ was as low as 120, I'd blow my brains out.
#36. To: sneakypete (#35)
If you had an IQ of 120 you would realize the IQ tests have changed several times since the 1940's.
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