Bang / Guns
See other Bang / Guns Articles
Title: Ben Carson Is Right About Nazi Gun Control
Source:
[None]
URL Source: http://thefederalist.com/2015/10/12 ... -right-about-nazi-gun-control/
Published: Oct 14, 2015
Author: Daniel Payne
Post Date: 2015-10-14 08:11:18 by no gnu taxes
Keywords: None
Views: 2581
Comments: 13
There has been a great deal of ridiculous outrage over some perfectly defensible comments Ben Carson made last week. During an interview with Wolf Blitzer, Carson was asked to clarify something he’d written in his book, “A More Perfect Union”: --- German citizens were disarmed by their government in the late 1930s, and by the mid-1940s Hitler’s regime had mercilessly slaughtered six million Jews and numerous others whom they considered inferior … Through a combination of removing guns and disseminating deceitful propaganda, the Nazis were able to carry out their evil intentions with relatively little resistance. With Blitzer, Carson added: “[T]he likelihood of Hitler being able to accomplish his goals would have been greatly diminished if the people had been armed.” --- For even the most amateur of historians, Carson’s statements are obviously, objectively true: Germany in the late 1930s did indeed have a strict gun-control regime, and by the mid-1940s the German death camp machine had vaporized millions upon millions of defenseless victims, all with very little resistance from the civilian population. History Is Even Stronger Than Ben Carson’s Telling But Carson is only telling half of the anti-Semitic Nazi gun-control story. In addition to the disarmament that took place in the late 1930s, for about five years in the early-to-mid-1930s the Nazi Party had engaged in a massive nationwide seizure of weapons from political opponents. The Jews were predictably among the targeted groups. In Breslau in 1933, Jews were ordered to “surrender [their] weapons forthwith to the police authorities” on the basis that “Jewish citizens have allegedly used their weapons for unlawful attacks on members of the Nazi organization and the police.” This was a regular occurrence all over Germany until the Waffengesetz of 1938, which effectively banned Jewish firearm ownership in all of Germany (though this had been something of a reality for a while, as in 1935 the Gestapo had ordered no weapons permits to be issued to Jews without the approval of the Gestapo itself). The Nazis were also happy to exploit actual instances of Jewish quasi-insurrection. In early November of 1938, after a young Jewish man attempted to assassinate the German ambassador in Paris, a general campaign was launched to disarm the Jewry of Berlin. As the Berliner BörsenZeitung reported, Jews in Berlin found still in possession of a weapon without a “valid weapon permit” would be treated with “the greatest severity.” So it went. The disarmament of the Jews was a political and social fact in Nazi Germany. It is uncontestable and inarguable. It was one of the many harsh realities of German Jewish life in the 1930s: if you were a Jew and you had a gun, the Nazis wanted to take it. Adolph Hitler himself knew it: “The most foolish mistake we could possibly make,” he said, “would be to allow the subject races to possess arms.” The Nazi Party was ruthlessly methodical. It knew that disarmament was a pretext to annihilation. You could not easily kill a Jew if he could easily kill you back. F*** Off, History, We Hate Guns So, both historically and practically, Carson is right and his clueless, hysterical critics are completely wrong. The Nazi government was a zealous disarmer of Jews, and this disarmament made it easier to eventually ship the Jews to death camps in boxcars. This is patently obvious. Yet the general reaction has been one of almost comical obtuseness. Rabbi David Wolpe accused Carson of “blaming the victims.” Both the fashion magazine GQ and pot-smoking fartsmith Seth Rogen told Carson to “fuck off.” At The Guardian, Nigel Jones called Carson’s remarks “ignorant, offensive, and downright stupid.” The Twitterverse exploded with indignation. All of this was spectacularly witless and uninformed. Carson’s detractors do at least have this on their side: it is unlikely that a fully armed German Jewry could have stopped the merciless onslaught of the Final Solution. The program was backed by the full might of the Nazi government, and even a tightly coordinated attack by all the able-bodied Jews in Germany would have likely been futile. But given the realities of the Wehrmacht, the issue should not be one of, “Could a civilian militia have defeated the German army and prevented the Holocaust?” Rather, the question is this: “If the German government hadn’t stripped the German Jewish population of arms, would it have been easier for the Jews to fight back, and would more lives have been saved?” The answer is obviously yes. The Holocaust might not have been “greatly diminished,” as Carson claimed, but there would have been a better-than-average chance that many people could have been saved, and it assuredly would have been better than nothing. If Facts Won’t Persuade You, Try This By the time of the Wannsee Conference, it was probably too late for anyone outside of an invading army to do anything to stop the sure march of extermination. But prior to the full implementation of the Final Solution, an armed Jewish population would almost certainly have had a positive effect on the Jewish casualty rate. The forced-labor camps, the einsatzgruppen, some of the pogroms and ghettos, Kristallnacht—an armed Jewish population could have had a lot of success pushing back against certain elements of anti-Semitic hostility in Nazi Germany. Armed civilians might have saved a decent number of lives from the clutches of the Nazi Party. This is a fact. But it’s a fact the Left cannot treat with: to acknowledge that Hitler disarmed the Jews in order to make them weaker opponents, and to acknowledge that the Jews, with guns, could have had moderate success fighting against the Nazis would offer legitimacy to one of the Left’s most hated boogeymen: an armed civilian populace. Progressives refuse to believe civilian armament has any utility whatsoever. Indeed, they claim gun ownership is actually a threat to civil society and should be tightly regulated, if not banned altogether. So when Carson points out what even Hitler himself acknowledged—that Jews in Nazi Germany would have been better off with firearms instead of without them—they cannot acknowledge the sheer obviousness of his position. Their response: “Fuck you, Ben Carson.” You cannot reach these people with logical, well-reasoned historical arguments. So instead, to all of those people who think Carson is both wrong and crazy, we can pose a simple, easy to answer question: if you could be transported back in time and assume the role of a Jew in late-1930s Poland, would you rather be disarmed—or would you rather have a gun?
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
#1. To: no gnu taxes (#0)
No one with two brain cells to rub together would be disarmed! However, there are still plenty of pacifists; big government loving libtards; fascists; 2nd amendment haters; idiots etc that will still argue that Carson is wrong, think Americans should be disarmed & that only the police & military should have arms. My position to the above groups is simple: " You can turn yours in if you want. Otherwise, F YOU !!! " Si vis pacem, para bellum Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.
I don't know if Ben Carson is right. The Nazis would not have been fazed by armed civilian resistance. It was Nazi doctrine to seek combat and war to prove who is the superior race.
Carson maybe wrong about the "What If?" part about the Nazis and armed civilians but citizens should be able to have the right to be armed but they are not the same thing. Carson is arguing based on a talking point.
What good is a handgun against an army? Consider an article written several years ago by Mike Vanderboegh on this very subject, the entirety of which can be found at Western Rifle Shooters Association. In that article, Vanderboegh quotes a great American Patriot, one of the founders of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Aaron Zelman: "If every Jewish and anti-nazi family in Germany had owned a Mauser rifle and twenty rounds of ammunition AND THE WILL TO USE IT (emphasis supplied - MBV), Adolf Hitler would be a little-known footnote to the history of the Weimar Republic." The truth of those words is born out by the fact that the one thing that every tyrant or tyrannical government fears more than anything else is an armed citizenry. This is precisely why the first thing a government does when it is intent on seizing control of the lives of citizens is to disarm them. Hitler implemented strict gun registration first. This is where the U.S. stands at this moment with regard to its voluminous accumulation of gun control laws. Then Hitler confiscated all of the firearms of the persons who had registered. Thus, when he began his abominable campaign as supreme ruler of Germany and embarked on the dreadful mission to carry out one of the worst incidents of genocide the world has ever seen, he knew that he had already disarmed the German people and that resistance would be practically nil. As for the U.S. with regard to this scenario, a handgun in the hand of one man standing alone against the most powerful military on earth is certainly not enough to preserve liberty. But what if roughly one hundred million Americans with roughly 3 times that number of firearms in their homes were to do so? What if only 10 million did so? To quote Vanderboegh: Consider that there are at least as many firearms-- handguns, rifles and shotguns-- as there are citizens of the United States. Consider that in 1997 there were more than 14 million Americans who bought licenses to hunt deer in the country. 14 million– that's a number greater than the largest five professional armies in the world combined. Consider also that those deer hunters are not only armed, but they own items of military utility-- everything from camouflage clothing to infrared "game finders", Global Positioning System devices and night vision scopes. Consider also that quite a few of these hunters are military veterans. Just as moving around in the woods and stalking game are second nature, military operations are no mystery to them, especially those who were on the receiving end of guerrilla war in Southeast Asia (or nowadays, Iraq and Afghanistan). Indeed, such men, aged though they may be, are more psychologically prepared for the exigencies of civil war (for this is what we are talking about) than their younger active-duty brother-soldiers whose only military experience involved neatly defined enemies and fronts in the Grand Campaign against Saddam. In short, the one thing holding back the dark forces of statism--the word that is often used for the political philosophy of 'progressive' centralized government control of all human life--is the fact that the American people are armed to the hilt. And since Barack Obama was elected in November of 2008, Americans have made the gun industry the most recession-proof industry in the world. Gun sales have skyrocketed even as prices have climbed. In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much I don't think he is wrong. One must understand that he is not talking about civilians grouping up and meeting a German Division head to head. But more like in a guerrilla fashion. Look at what the Jews accomplished in Warsaw. Look at what the French underground did. If the need ever arises here, and you want to surrender, knock your self out. I am sure the Spartans would not be proud of you!!! Si vis pacem, para bellum Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.
It is a "What If?" scenario so we can never know. But from my study of history, I am saying the Nazis could care less if the Jews were armed. The end result would be the same. Maybe some Germans would have died - though in reality in the Warsaw ghetto uprising the SS sent in Ukrainians and Baltic SS to do the dirty work so no big loss from the SS perspective. The Nazis invaded the well USSR - on purpose - so I don't think Jews being armed would have phased them. That does not mean I am against the notion of an armed population. Better to die fighting and take some of the bastards with you but the idea that an armed Jewish populace would have stopped the holocaust is to me a fantasy. In fact it may have made more people in the countries the Jews lived in turn on the Jews - they saw them as outsiders and did not trust their fellow Jewish citizens.
Nonsense. For example, the Russians resisting the Reds were well armed aka the White Army and they lost. The Wiemar Republic in Germany is the one that passed gun control laws - why? To prevent the commies and the nationalists from arming themselves and waging war on the state. You assume the ones itching to fight are good people. Syria shows you what happens when the local yokels get armed and rise up against the state. Maybe Americans and related people who think like us are the only people who can pull this benign armed citizenry ideal off.
That is because it is a fantasy. No one, Mr. Carson, the NRA, or even JPFO is suggesting such. However, if the Jews had have been armed, they most likely could have slowed it down. Only rabid anti 2nd amendments kooks are suggesting that people are saying that. Si vis pacem, para bellum Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.
No way to know.
No way to know. " True. That works both ways! Si vis pacem, para bellum Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.
Got an answer? It really is as simple as yes or no. Obama has played at being a president while enjoying the perks … golf, insanely expensive vacations at tax-payer expense. He has ignored the responsibilities of the job; no plans, no budgets, no alternatives … just finger pointing; making him a complete failure as a president
Got an answer? It really is as simple as yes or no. " Such a simple question. Yet, he cannot answer. Amazing! Si vis pacem, para bellum Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.
It's best to die with a gun in your hand but it would not have made a difference.
" a simple, easy to answer question: if you could be transported back in time and assume the role of a Jew in late-1930s Poland, would you rather be disarmed—or would you rather have a gun? "
#2. To: no gnu taxes (#0)
#3. To: Stoner (#1)
#4. To: Pericles, no gnu taxes, Stoner (#2)
The Nazis would not have been fazed by armed civilian resistance. It was Nazi doctrine to seek combat and war to prove who is the superior race.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#5. To: Pericles (#3)
" Carson maybe wrong about the "What If?" part about the Nazis and armed civilians "
#6. To: Stoner (#5)
#7. To: Deckard (#4)
In short, the one thing holding back the dark forces of statism--the word that is often used for the political philosophy of 'progressive' centralized government control of all human life--is the fact that the American people are armed to the hilt.
#8. To: Pericles (#6)
" the idea that an armed Jewish populace would have stopped the holocaust is to me a fantasy. "
#9. To: Stoner (#8)
However, if the Jews had have been armed, they most likely could have slowed it down.
#10. To: Pericles (#9)
" However, if the Jews had have been armed, they most likely could have slowed it down.
#11. To: Pericles (#9)
So instead, to all of those people who think Carson is both wrong and crazy, we can pose a simple, easy to answer question: if you could be transported back in time and assume the role of a Jew in late-1930s Poland, would you rather be disarmed—or would you rather have a gun?
#12. To: no gnu taxes, Pericles (#11)
" So instead, to all of those people who think Carson is both wrong and crazy, we can pose a simple, easy to answer question: if you could be transported back in time and assume the role of a Jew in late-1930s Poland, would you rather be disarmed—or would you rather have a gun?
#13. To: no gnu taxes (#11)
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
[Home] [Headlines] [Latest Articles] [Latest Comments] [Post] [Mail] [Sign-in] [Setup] [Help] [Register]