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Title: Russia fires missiles from warships into Syria amid new escalation
Source: USA Today
URL Source: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/ ... sia-syria-airstrikes/73500872/
Published: Oct 7, 2015
Author: Jim Michaels and Oren Dorell
Post Date: 2015-10-07 22:03:17 by nativist nationalist
Keywords: None
Views: 3068
Comments: 39

Russian warships fired a volley of cruise missiles into Syria from the Caspian Sea on Wednesday as Russian-backed Syrian government troops launched a ground offensive to crush rebel forces opposing the regime of President Bashar Assad.

The missile strikes mark a major escalation of Russia's recent involvement in Syria's long civil war and a growing threat to a faltering U.S. policy in Syria.

Russia said four warships carried out 26 missile strikes from the Caspian Sea, destroying 11 targets more than 900 miles away. The missiles crossed Iranian and Iraqi airspace to reach their targets.

Russian President Vladimir Putin is backing longtime ally Assad in his 4- year-old civil war against rebels that now include the Islamic State extremists and more moderate opposition groups backed by the United States. That goal runs counter to the Obama administration's objectives. It is leading a coalition campaign of airstrikes in Iraq and Syria to defeat the Islamic State and is calling for Assad's removal.

"We're really on our back foot and have been since the Russians started their buildup in Syria," said Jeff White, a former Defense Intelligence Agency official now at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. "We’ve lost the initiative."

The Pentagon has accused Russia of bolstering Assad by attacking moderate opposition groups the U.S. supports. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter on Wednesday called the Russian strategy "tragically flawed."

Russian officials countered Wednesday that their goal is to go after all terrorist groups. Russia seeks “a terror-free Syria and a terror-free region,” Aydar Aganin, a Middle East analyst at the Russian embassy in Washington, said in an interview.

Rejecting U.S. claims that the airstrikes are not aimed at Islamic State militants, Aganin said, "We strike terrorists.”

In defending Assad, however, Moscow does not appear to be distinguishing between the extremist and more moderate rebel groups, which is heightening tensions with Washington at a time when it is struggling to find a winning strategy for ending Syria's civil war and halting a flood of refugees swarming into the Middle East and Europe.

Even before the Russian buildup, the Pentagon acknowledged its plan to field a force of moderate rebels to fight the Islamic State had run into problems, and it had suspended most of the program after training just a few fighters.

One U.S. military-trained group was attacked by al-Qaeda-linked forces shortly after arriving in Syria, and another turned over equipment and ammunition to the same terrorist organization. Only a handful of Pentagon- trained opposition forces remain in Syria.

"I’m the first one to acknowledge it has not worked the way it was supposed to," President Obama said recently.

The White House and military officials are examining other ways to support moderate opposition forces to counter the Islamic State. But now those groups may be vulnerable to Russian attacks.

The U.S.-led coalition has dropped thousands of bombs on Islamic State targets but has kept ground forces out of the country. Russia has deployed helicopter gunships, tanks and rocket launchers to Syria, along with troops to guard Russian bases. Putin said he would not send ground combat troops to Syria.

The Russian support appears to have energized Assad's forces, who had suffered a number of defeats. Now they are engaged in an offensive centered around Hama, a city in north-central Syria. Russian airstrikes appeared to be supporting the offensive.

Obama has accused Putin of intervening in Syria "because his client, Mr. Assad, was crumbling." Obama wants Assad out, citing atrocities against his own people.

"Now we have to contemplate going to war with Russia if we want to get rid of Assad," said Christopher Chivvis, an analyst at RAND Corp.

Russian analyst Aganin said Moscow's goal is not to protect Assad but to fight the spread of terrorism. He noted that the Syrian battlefields are 300 miles from Russia’s Caucasus region. He said Russia estimates that 2,000 fighters from former Soviet republics have joined the radical group.

The militants “see parts of Russia as a target for this caliphate they are building,” said Yury Melnik, the Russian embassy press secretary. “If they succeed in standing their ground in Syria and Iraq, they may bring their activities closer and closer to Russia, which is a direct threat.”

Aganin said Russia wants whoever is fighting the Islamic State to join forces because eliminating the radical group would improve prospects for a political solution in Syria.

“It’s in the mutual interest of the Syrian army and the moderate opposition” to fight the Islamic State, “and we are ready to support both if we have a point of contact,” Melnik said.

The United States has said it is willing to hold "technical" talks with Russia to avoid a mishap between coalition and Russian pilots. However, the White House has said it would not coordinate more broadly with the Russians unless they agreed to a political transition that would remove Assad from power.

The Pentagon said it has already had to reroute a U.S. aircraft to maintain a safe distance from a Russian plane.

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#1. To: nativist nationalist (#0)

Aganin said Russia wants whoever is fighting the Islamic State to join forces because eliminating the radical group would improve prospects for a political solution in Syria.

“It’s in the mutual interest of the Syrian army and the moderate opposition” to fight the Islamic State, “and we are ready to support both if we have a point of contact,” Melnik said.

Putin is going to strike the CIA's (so-called) moderates until we meet Putin's terms.

They seem to hold out the possibility of a mutual operation to wipe out ISIS if America cooperates. Until then, Russia will consider all rebels to be ISIS terrorists.

Vlad knows how to put Odinga and Lurch between a rock and a hard place.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-07   22:42:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: TooConservative, nativist nationalist (#1)

Vlad knows how to put Odinga and Lurch between a rock and a hard place.

That's why Obama communicated to Putin just before the 2012 election that he, Obama, could be "more flexible" with Putin after the election.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-10-07   22:50:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: SOSO (#2)

That's why Obama communicated to Putin just before the 2012 election that he, Obama, could be "more flexible" with Putin after the election.

Our boy-president, Barry, keeps using using his safe word but Vlad won't let up.

It's a diplomacy-unrequited romantic comedy.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-07   23:13:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: TooConservative (#1)

Until then, Russia will consider all rebels to be ISIS terrorists.

To the extent that they weaken Assad they serve ISIS.

My inner war nerd is trying to scrounge up the details on the strike. Very interesting that they launched from the Caspian Sea. I used to know pretty much everything they had but I lost interest about 25 years ago. Back then it was easier keep track using the NATO designation system.

From what I can gather the attacks were launched from Project 21631 Buyan- class corvettes, which displace less than a 1000 tons. The missile was the 3M-14T Kalibr NK. I hope they post videos. The ones where they hose down Somali pirates with lead were pretty good.

Non auro, sed ferro, recuperando est patria

nativist nationalist  posted on  2015-10-07   23:16:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: TooConservative (#3)

Our boy-president, Barry, keeps using using his safe word but Vlad won't let up.

It's a diplomacy-unrequited romantic comedy.

Or just a plain butt f*cking.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-10-07   23:37:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: nativist nationalist (#4)

I used to know pretty much everything they had but I lost interest about 25 years ago.

They're still using the same weapons. They have some upgrades but they haven't done much in the way of new weapons designs. They're still relying on the old Soviet designs for their arsenal. Most of their stockpiles are Soviet era stuff.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-07   23:38:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: SOSO (#5)

Or just a plain butt f*cking.

You make it sound so sordid.

But you know how Vlad is once he whips his shirt off.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-07   23:39:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: TooConservative (#7)

But you know how Vlad is once he whips his shirt off.

No. No I don't. Please tell us:)

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-10-08   0:05:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: TooConservative (#1)

Putin is going to strike the CIA's (so-called) moderates until we meet Putin's terms.

So there are 3 sides fighting.

Does the so called Syrian Free army also attack ISIS?

wars and rumors of wars

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-10-08   0:07:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: A K A Stone (#9)

Does the so called Syrian Free army also attack ISIS?

Sometimes they do. Sometimes they cut deals with them, like delivering up Western hostages who get executed on ISIS propaganda vids. Other times, they give ISIS the weapons and vehicles we give to FSA.

Bunch of scumbags.

At this juncture, even if FSA really ever did represent a "moderate Islamic democratic opposition" (always a dubious notion), it is now little more than window dressing for the CIA to provide weapons to al-Qaeda (Jabhat al-Nusra branch). Of course, we know that al-Qaeda is no stranger to operating as a CIA ally, as they did during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan when the CIA used them as proxy troops against Russia.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-08   0:12:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: TooConservative (#10)

Sometimes they do. Sometimes they cut deals with them, like delivering up Western hostages who get executed on ISIS propaganda vids. Other times, they give ISIS the weapons and vehicles we give to FSA.

How do you know this for a fact?

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-10-08   0:22:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: TooConservative (#10)

At this juncture, even if FSA really ever did represent a "moderate Islamic democratic opposition" (always a dubious notion), it is now little more than window dressing for the CIA to provide weapons to al-Qaeda (Jabhat al-Nusra branch). Of course, we know that al-Qaeda is no stranger to operating as a CIA ally, as they did during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan when the CIA used them as proxy troops against Russia.

I see it said we are providing weapons, aid etc to so called al-Qaeda. That may be true or maybe not.

Who is al-Qaeda? How do we know who they are. It seems they just say yeah that's al-Qaeda and we're supposed to believe them.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-10-08   0:26:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: SOSO (#8)

No. No I don't. Please tell us:)

Barry: "C'mon, Vlad, nyet means nyet!"

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-08   0:27:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: A K A Stone (#11)

How do you know this for a fact?

It was widely reported in the media, even in American media.

Those FSA freedom fighters that McStain met with, a couple of them were members of a known kidnapping gang. Kidnapping-for-profit is an old Arab custom and derives from the Koran's endorsement. So you can be a good Muslim and a kidnapper holding enemies as hostages.

That one reporter was betrayed by an FSA guy by phone to ISIS who did kidnap and execute him. They got paid a $40K (or $50K) finders fee by ISIS.

This is the basis for trying to ransom hostages like Bergdahl. They did explore that before the trade for the five Taliban warlords. In fact, it seems that trying to ransom Bergdahl was what brought on the demand that they would trade Bergdahl for the five Taliban warlords at Gitmo.

We have had articles here at LF on who and what FSA is.

All these groups (militias and coalitions of militias) are half-bandit, half-rebel, half-freedom fighter, half-jihadi, half-suicide bomber.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-08   0:33:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: TooConservative (#13)

Barry: "C'mon, Vlad, nyet means nyet!"

Vlas: "But Bammy, I thought you said reset, reset."

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-10-08   0:34:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: TooConservative (#14)

We have had articles here at LF on who and what FSA is.

I know. I just don't know if it is true.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-10-08   0:37:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: SOSO (#15)

Vlas: "But Bammy, I thought you said reset, reset."

Reset is a trigger word.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-08   0:43:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: nativist nationalist (#0)

Obama has accused Putin of intervening in Syria "because his client, Mr. Assad, was crumbling." Obama wants Assad out, citing atrocities against his own people.

Obama wants to assure the victory of another jihadist caliphate by renaming it. Putin isn't having any of it.

rlk  posted on  2015-10-08   1:00:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: TooConservative (#3)

Our boy-president, Barry, keeps using using his safe word but Vlad won't let up.

All 0bama has to do is announce another of his, "don't cross this red line" ultimatums. That will stop good ol' Vlad, right in his Moscow tracks.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-10-08   1:04:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Redleghunter (#0)

Good Morning,

In your opinion, what do we do it, Assad closes his air space and Iran orders the Iraqi g0vt to close their airspace to US forces?

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-10-08   7:40:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: TooConservative (#1)

I'm waiting for Russian ground forces to display the weapons used by ISIS, if the Russians aren't selling them arms, then who is?

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-10-08   7:42:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: BobCeleste (#21)

I'm waiting for Russian ground forces to display the weapons used by ISIS, if the Russians aren't selling them arms, then who is?

ISIS has taken a lot of our weapons away from the Iraqis. They also had a lot of funding from Qatar, the Saudis and the Kuwaitis.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-08   8:29:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: BobCeleste (#20)

If Russia truly fired missiles from ships located in the Caspian Sea, I would gather they had airspace coordination with CENTCOM.

Iraq really can't close their airspace even if Iran orders it. Iraqi airspace is still very much 'aided' by the US.

"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly."---Romans 5:6

redleghunter  posted on  2015-10-08   9:49:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: redleghunter (#23)

kind of what I thought, but what about Syrian airspace?

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-10-08   11:38:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: BobCeleste (#24)

but what about Syrian airspace?

Chaotic. Loads of room for 'mistakes' to happen which can easily run out of control.

"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly."---Romans 5:6

redleghunter  posted on  2015-10-08   12:02:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: redleghunter, Pericles, BobCeleste, tomder55 (#25) (Edited)

I noticed the reports that four of the Russian missiles launched from the Caspian Sea crashed in Iran. So that was a fairly high failure rate in their volley. This was the first use of these new Russian cruise missiles.

Vlad cannot be pleased at that loss rate. American cruise missiles almost never crash randomly. This reliability problem won't help Russian missile sales.

Russia denies the missiles crashed in Iran.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-09   8:52:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: TooConservative, Pericles, BobCeleste, tomder55 (#26)

I noticed the reports that four of the Russian missiles launched from the Caspian Sea crashed in Iran. So that was a fairly high failure rate in their volley. This was the first use of these new Russian cruise missiles.

Vlad cannot be pleased at that loss rate. American cruise missiles almost never crash randomly. This reliability problem won't help Russian missile sales.

Russia denies the missiles crashed in Iran.

Maybe he was rotating the stock:) We used to have these types of failures in the 80s and early 90s before going to GPS aided. Which tells me the Russian missiles used were most likely inertial navigation only.

"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly."---Romans 5:6

redleghunter  posted on  2015-10-09   9:14:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: redleghunter (#27)

Which tells me the Russian missiles used were most likely inertial navigation only.

They were billed as the new Kalibur missiles. Just tested and certified this summer supposedly. These had been in development for some years. After the post-Soviet neglect, you just know they had to build some shiny new rockets. You know what a thing the Russkies have for shiny rockets. Soviet guys like Vlad loved rocket fuel as much as mother's milk.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-09   17:05:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: TooConservative (#26)

American cruise missiles fail also. I recall an article. I recall an article also by a military historian on battle casualties claimed by both sides - he said he found that if you take the two figures and average them out that would produce a more accurate figure. Russia said zero and the USA said 4 so probably 2 failed.

Pericles  posted on  2015-10-14   0:59:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Pericles (#29)

American cruise missiles fail also.

I can't find crash figures for ours or for Russia's.

We've used ours extensively in the Mideast since the Nineties against Iraq and aspirin factories in Yemen (a Xlinton/Lewinsky distraction). I do recall some reports of a few crashes and recovery efforts or capture by enemy forces.

You can find a few reports of failures. Not much in terms of total losses or hard numbers.

Terrain-hugging U.S. Tomahawk cruise missiles fired by ships in the Mediterranean, Red Sea and Persian Gulf have also missed targets. A handful of the 700 fired in the war have slammed mistakenly into Iran, Turkey and Saudi Arabia, leading the Saudis and Turks to ask the Pentagon to stop firing them across their territory. Iran has protested at least three hits by U.S. missiles.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-14   8:06:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: TooConservative (#30)

Yes, so to me if our American made missiles suffer these crashes then it is expected that the Russian missiles will also. Crashes or not it is still an amazing ability the Russians have that I think blindsided the Pentagon. I think they did not know the Russkies had that ability. The rest is public relations our grapes by the White House.

Pericles  posted on  2015-10-14   10:30:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Pericles (#31)

USSR and Russia have always been credible cruise missile threats as the USSR pioneered cruise missiles back in the Thirties. They have poured a lot of their scarce resources into cruise missile modernization in the post-Soviet era.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-14   10:45:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: TooConservative (#32)

Russia can pull that off on a small budget. I am sure we Americans and Westerners produce a better product for all that we spend and we have better quality control but I am starting to thing like maybe 80% of the cost of America's advanced arms are just from bloat and price rigging.

I have to say the Russians have been showing some American level of competence in Syria. We assumed all Soviet stuff was junk based on how their weapons performed in third world countries - but the Soviets only exported the stripped down versions of their weapons.

Pericles  posted on  2015-10-14   12:48:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Pericles (#33) (Edited)

Russia can pull that off on a small budget.

Not their choice. Their total defense budget is $81 billion compared to America's $496 billion.

Russia is a regional power, not a world power. Even China is more powerful.

I have to say the Russians have been showing some American level of competence in Syria. We assumed all Soviet stuff was junk based on how their weapons performed in third world countries - but the Soviets only exported the stripped down versions of their weapons.

I would say that the Russians are using the full Russian weapons in Syria, not the cut-down export versions.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-14   14:16:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: TooConservative (#34)

China is not as powerful as we assume. Yet.

Pericles  posted on  2015-10-14   15:10:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Pericles (#35)

China is very close to having multiple carriers. We're losing carriers and we're afraid of China's new anti-ship missiles and torpedoes. And their South China Sea expansion.

By 2020, China will be our most formidable naval rival and not just in their own region. They will be able to project power around the world if they choose. The Mideast, for instance.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-14   15:58:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: TooConservative (#36)

What would you say about a person who wants to reduce our military by 75 percent.

Psalm 37

Don  posted on  2015-10-14   17:35:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Don (#37)

What would you say about a person who wants to reduce our military by 75 percent.

I'd say we're seeing reductions but not that range in the near term. Possibly down the road, sure.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-14   18:32:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: TooConservative (#38)

There are many people who want to see no American military and new Brown Shirts enforcing the "peace."

Psalm 37

Don  posted on  2015-10-14   22:23:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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