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Title: Bill Nye’s unscientific tirade on abortion
Source: Life Site News
URL Source: https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinio ... caba610ac-f3ce8fa0c7-397379915
Published: Sep 28, 2015
Author: James D. Agresti
Post Date: 2015-09-28 23:55:07 by redleghunter
Ping List: *Pro-Life*     Subscribe to *Pro-Life*
Keywords: None
Views: 6262
Comments: 47

In a new viral video starring Bill Nye, the famed "Science Guy" declares that laws protecting "unborn people" are "based on ignorance" and reflect a "a deep scientific lack of understanding." He also says that if you support such laws, you "literally or apparently literally don't know what you’re talking about."

Nye's video was released during an ongoing battle in Congress over sending taxpayers' money to Planned Parenthood, the nation's largest abortion provider. Several large media outlets have glowingly covered the video, including the Washington Post, Newsweek, and the Huffington Post.

Nye's central argument is that human embryos should not be protected by law, because many of them perish from natural causes before they implant in the womb. Based on this, he claims that if you think life begins at fertilization and is worthy of protection:

Then whom are you going to sue? Whom are you going to imprison? Every woman who's had a fertilized egg pass through her? Every guy who's sperm has fertilized an egg and then it didn't become a human? Have all these people failed you? That statement is irrelevant to the issue of abortion, just as the statement that "all people eventually die" is irrelevant to the issue of murder. Both of these issues are about people actively ending the lives of others, not nature taking its course.

Moreover, Nye's logic and his use of the phrase "didn't become a human" assume that life does not begin at fertilization, a notion that is contrary to science. The science of biology has revealed that there are four empirical attributes of life (growth, reproduction, metabolism, and response to stimuli), and the science of embryology has shown that all of these are present at fertilization.

Furthermore, the sciences of genetics and embryology have proven that the genetic composition of humans is formed during fertilization, and as the textbook Molecular Biology explains, this genetic material is "the very basis of life itself."

In accord with these facts, the medical textbook Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects states: "The zygote and early embryo are living human organisms." And an organism, in the words of Webster's College Dictionary, is "any individual life form considered as an entity."

Nye also states that opposition to abortion is based on an "interpretation of a book written 5,000 years ago" that makes people "think that when a man and a woman have sexual intercourse they always have a baby."

That statement is manifestly false. The Bible says no such thing, and everyone who has ever had repeated sex without birth control knows that a baby does not always result. Furthermore, miscarriages (technically called "spontaneous abortions") are often visibly obvious to those who have suffered them. These are not modern revelations of science but realities that have been obvious since the dawn of mankind.

Contrary to Nye's straw man, Biblically-based opposition to abortion is not rooted in unscientific fallacies but in principles about the value and uniqueness of each individual from the moment of conception. Incidentally, these principles are consistent with science. Beyond the scientific facts that show life begins at fertilization, modern science has also revealed that each human embryo is biologically unique and irreplaceable.


Poster Comment:

As I stated on the other Nye thread. He is a fake science guy. Subscribe to *Pro-Life*

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 41.

#10. To: redleghunter (#0)

Moreover, Nye's logic and his use of the phrase "didn't become a human" assume that life does not begin at fertilization, a notion that is contrary to science. The science of biology has revealed that there are four empirical attributes of life (growth, reproduction, metabolism, and response to stimuli), and the science of embryology has shown that all of these are present at fertilization.

Furthermore, the sciences of genetics and embryology have proven that the genetic composition of humans is formed during fertilization, and as the textbook Molecular Biology explains, this genetic material is "the very basis of life itself."

http://www.justfacts.com/aboutus.asp

James D. Agresti, the president and primary researcher, holds a Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering from Brown University and has worked as a designer of jet engine components and systems, a technical sales professional, and chief engineer of a firm that customizes helicopters. He is also the author of Rational Conclusions, a meticulously researched book evidencing factual support for the Bible across a broad array of academic disciplines.

Moreover, if Catholic doctrine is to be forced upon everyone by the authority of the Federal government, then we should just openly recognize the conception argument as an argument to criminalize the morning after pill. If a woman were raped, taking a morning after pill would be considered attempted murder. Abortifacient use after implantation would be treated the same, regardless of a governmental decree about pre-implantation.

If eggs fertilized in vitro are test tube babies with full rights of personhood, would it be mandatory that every egg be returned via a turkey baster? If a hundred eggs were collected, fertilized, and kept in cryogenic storage, would the lady have a hundred dependent children for purposes of tax deductions?

What is the legal status of the human life created by scientists in petri dish or test tube? How are those rights, if any, to be enforced?

After 18 years in cryogenic storage, would they still be minors? Could they sue in federal court, demanding that they be implanted and demanding a constitutional right to be born?

Moreover, official church teaching, bearing a nihil obstat and imprimatur, and the infallible teaching of the pope on doctrines of faith and morals, dictates that "any action which, either in anticipation of the conjugal act [sexual intercourse], or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" (Humanae Vitae 14). This includes sterilization, condoms and other barrier methods, spermicides, coitus interruptus (withdrawal method), the Pill, and all other such methods.

And, "up until 1930, all Protestant denominations agreed with the Catholic Church’s teaching condemning contraception as sinful."

Would it be a proper governmental function to ban condoms, barriers, and even withdrawal? I suppose they can make the sale of condoms unlawful but I am unsure what branch of law enforcement will monitor all to catch lawbreakers in the act of withdrawal.

There are some areas where the government just does not belong. This is an area for religion and philosophy, not legislation and courts.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/birth-control

Birth Control

In 1968, Pope Paul VI issued his landmark encyclical letter Humanae Vitae (Latin, "Human Life"), which reemphasized the Church’s constant teaching that it is always intrinsically wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence.

Contraception is "any action which, either in anticipation of the conjugal act [sexual intercourse], or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" (Humanae Vitae 14). This includes sterilization, condoms and other barrier methods, spermicides, coitus interruptus (withdrawal method), the Pill, and all other such methods.

The Historic Christian Teaching

Few realize that up until 1930, all Protestant denominations agreed with the Catholic Church’s teaching condemning contraception as sinful. At its 1930 Lambeth Conference, the Anglican church, swayed by growing social pressure, announced that contraception would be allowed in some circumstances. Soon the Anglican church completely caved in, allowing contraception across the board. Since then, all other Protestant denominations have followed suit. Today, the Catholic Church alone proclaims the historic Christian position on contraception.

Evidence that contraception is in conflict with God’s laws comes from a variety of sources that will be examined in this tract.

Nature

Contraception is wrong because it’s a deliberate violation of the design God built into the human race, often referred to as "natural law." The natural law purpose of sex is procreation. The pleasure that sexual intercourse provides is an additional blessing from God, intended to offer the possibility of new life while strengthening the bond of intimacy, respect, and love between husband and wife. The loving environment this bond creates is the perfect setting for nurturing children.

But sexual pleasure within marriage becomes unnatural, and even harmful to the spouses, when it is used in a way that deliberately excludes the basic purpose of sex, which is procreation. God’s gift of the sex act, along with its pleasure and intimacy, must not be abused by deliberately frustrating its natural end—procreation.

Scripture

Is contraception a modern invention? Hardly! Birth control has been around for millennia. Scrolls found in Egypt, dating to 1900 B.C., describe ancient methods of birth control that were later practiced in the Roman empire during the apostolic age. Wool that absorbed sperm, poisons that fumigated the uterus, potions, and other methods were used to prevent conception. In some centuries, even condoms were used (though made out of animal skin rather than latex).

The Bible mentions at least one form of contraception specifically and condemns it. Coitus interruptus, was used by Onan to avoid fulfilling his duty according to the ancient Jewish law of fathering children for one’s dead brother. "Judah said to Onan, ‘Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also" (Gen. 38:8–10).

The biblical penalty for not giving your brother’s widow children was public humiliation, not death (Deut. 25:7–10). But Onan received death as punishment for his crime. This means his crime was more than simply not fulfilling the duty of a brother-in-law. He lost his life because he violated natural law, as Jewish and Christian commentators have always understood. For this reason, certain forms of contraception have historically been known as "Onanism," after the man who practiced it, just as homosexuality has historically been known as "Sodomy," after the men of Sodom, who practiced that vice (cf. Gen. 19).

Contraception was so far outside the biblical mindset and so obviously wrong that it did not need the frequent condemnations other sins did. Scripture condemns the practice when it mentions it. Once a moral principle has been established in the Bible, every possible application of it need not be mentioned. For example, the general principle that theft is wrong was clearly established in Scripture; but there’s no need to provide an exhaustive list of every kind of theft. Similarly, since the principle that contraception is wrong has been established by being condemned when it’s mentioned in the Bible, every particular form of contraception does not need to be dealt with in Scripture in order for us to see that it is condemned.

Apostolic Tradition

The biblical teaching that birth control is wrong is found even more explicitly among the Church Fathers, who recognized the biblical and natural law principles underlying the condemnation.

In A.D. 195, Clement of Alexandria wrote, "Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted" (The Instructor of Children 2:10:91:2).

Hippolytus of Rome wrote in 255 that "on account of their prominent ancestry and great property, the so-called faithful [certain Christian women who had affairs with male servants] want no children from slaves or lowborn commoners, [so] they use drugs of sterility or bind themselves tightly in order to expel a fetus which has already been engendered" (Refutation of All Heresies9:12).

Around 307 Lactantius explained that some "complain of the scantiness of their means, and allege that they have not enough for bringing up more children, as though, in truth, their means were in [their] power . . . or God did not daily make the rich poor and the poor rich. Wherefore, if any one on any account of poverty shall be unable to bring up children, it is better to abstain from relations with his wife" (Divine Institutes 6:20).

The First Council of Nicaea, the first ecumenical council and the one that defined Christ’s divinity, declared in 325, "If anyone in sound health has castrated himself, it behooves that such a one, if enrolled among the clergy, should cease [from his ministry], and that from henceforth no such person should be promoted. But, as it is evident that this is said of those who willfully do the thing and presume to castrate themselves, so if any have been made eunuchs by barbarians, or by their masters, and should otherwise be found worthy, such men this canon admits to the clergy" (Canon 1).

Augustine wrote in 419, "I am supposing, then, although you are not lying [with your wife] for the sake of procreating offspring, you are not for the sake of lust obstructing their procreation by an evil prayer or an evil deed. Those who do this, although they are called husband and wife, are not; nor do they retain any reality of marriage, but with a respectable name cover a shame. Sometimes this lustful cruelty, or cruel lust, comes to this, that they even procure poisons of sterility [oral contraceptives]" (Marriage and Concupiscence 1:15:17).

The apostolic tradition’s condemnation of contraception is so great that it was followed by Protestants until 1930 and was upheld by all key Protestant Reformers. Martin Luther said, "[T]he exceedingly foul deed of Onan, the basest of wretches . . . is a most disgraceful sin. It is far more atrocious than incest and adultery. We call it unchastity, yes, a sodomitic sin. For Onan goes in to her; that is, he lies with her and copulates, and when it comes to the point of insemination, spills the semen, lest the woman conceive. Surely at such a time the order of nature established by God in procreation should be followed. Accordingly, it was a most disgraceful crime. . . . Consequently, he deserved to be killed by God. He committed an evil deed. Therefore, God punished him."

John Calvin said, "The voluntary spilling of semen outside of intercourse between man and woman is a monstrous thing. Deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that semen may fall on the ground is doubly monstrous. For this is to extinguish the hope of the race and to kill before he is born the hoped-for offspring."

John Wesley warned, "Those sins that dishonor the body are very displeasing to God, and the evidence of vile affections. Observe, the thing which he [Onan] did displeased the Lord—and it is to be feared; thousands, especially of single persons, by this very thing, still displease the Lord, and destroy their own souls." (These passages are quoted in Charles D. Provan, The Bible and Birth Control, which contains many quotes by historic Protestant figures who recognize contraception’s evils.)

The Magisterium

The Church also, fulfilling the role given it by Christ as the identifier and interpreter of apostolic Scripture and apostolic tradition, has constantly condemned contraception as gravely sinful.

In Humanae Vitae, Pope Paul VI stated, "[W]e must once again declare that the direct interruption of the generative process already begun, and, above all, directly willed and procured abortion, even if for therapeutic reasons, are to be absolutely excluded as licit means of regulating birth. Equally to be excluded, as the teaching authority of the Church has frequently declared, is direct sterilization, whether perpetual or temporary, whether of the man or of the woman. Similarly excluded is every action which, either in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" (HV 14).

This was reiterated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church: "[E]very action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible is intrinsically evil" (CCC 2370). "Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means . . . for example, direct sterilization or contraception" (CCC 2399).

The Church also has affirmed that the illicitness of contraception is an infallible doctrine: "The Church has always taught the intrinsic evil of contraception, that is, of every marital act intentionally rendered unfruitful. This teaching is to be held as definitive and irreformable. Contraception is gravely opposed to marital chastity, it is contrary to the good of the transmission of life (the procreative.aspect of matrimony), and to the reciprocal self-giving of the spouses (the unitive.aspect of matrimony); it harms true love and denies the sovereign role of God in the transmission of human life" (Vademecum for Confessors 2:4, Feb. 12, 1997).

Human Experience

Pope Paul VI predicted grave consequences that would arise from the widespread and unrestrained use of contraception. He warned, "Upright men can even better convince themselves of the solid grounds on which the teaching of the Church in this field is based if they care to reflect upon the consequences of methods of artificially limiting the increase of children. Let them consider, first of all, how wide and easy a road would thus be opened up towards conjugal infidelity and the general lowering of morality. Not much experience is needed in order to know human weakness, and to understand that men—especially the young, who are so vulnerable on this point—have need of encouragement to be faithful to the moral law, so that they must not be offered some easy means of eluding its observance. It is also to be feared that the man, growing used to the employment of anti-conceptive practices, may finally lose respect for the woman and, no longer caring for her physical and psychological equilibrium, may come to the point of considering her as a mere instrument of selfish enjoyment, and no longer as his respected and beloved companion" (HV 17).

No one can doubt the fulfillment of these prophetic words. They have all been more than fulfilled in this country as a result of the widespread availability of contraceptives, the "free love" movement that started in the 1960s, and the loose sexual morality that it spawned and that continues to pervade Western culture.

Indeed, recent studies reveal a far greater divorce rate in marriages in which contraception is regularly practiced than in those marriages where it is not. Experience, natural law, Scripture, Tradition, and the magisterium, all testify to the moral evil of contraception.

Wishful Thinking

Ignoring the mountain of evidence, some maintain that the Church considers the use of contraception a matter for each married couple to decide according to their "individual conscience." Yet, nothing could be further from the truth. The Church has always maintained the historic Christian teaching that deliberate acts of contraception are always gravely sinful, which means that it is mortally sinful if done with full knowledge and deliberate consent (CCC 1857). This teaching cannot be changed and has been taught by the Church infallibly.

There is no way to deny the fact that the Church has always and everywhere condemned artificial contraception. The matter has already been infallibly decided. The so-called "individual conscience" argument amounts to "individual disobedience."

NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors. Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004

IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827 permission to publish this work is hereby granted. +Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004

nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-29   19:54:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: nolu chan, Vicomte13 (#10)

Moreover, if Catholic doctrine is to be forced upon everyone by the authority of the Federal government, then we should just openly recognize the conception argument as an argument to criminalize the morning after pill. If a woman were raped, taking a morning after pill would be considered attempted murder. Abortifacient use after implantation would be treated the same, regardless of a governmental decree about pre-implantation.

The less than 1% argument is way overused. Or do you have data that shows rape has a high conception rate resulting in the millions of abortions each year?

Second point before we move on...What did the conceived human life do to be blotted out? Is the conceived human life paying for the sins of the rapist?

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-30   1:41:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: redleghunter (#12)

The less than 1% argument is way overused. Or do you have data that shows rape has a high conception rate resulting in the millions of abortions each year?

The authority of the Federal government is sought to enforce a religious moral position preventing the use of an abortifacient before it is known or knowable that any egg has been fertilized. You would criminalize an abortifacient on the basis that a potential lifeform might exist. You would invoke the power of the federal government to protect the rights of the rapist over the rights of the raped woman.

Based on certain religious morality, you have a solid case. It is logical. It is accepted by a tiny minority of people and it is a position having no chance of seeking political success at this time. Nor does it have any legal basis.

What did the conceived human life do to be blotted out? Is the conceived human life paying for the sins of the rapist?

There is no knowledge of whether there is a zygote or not at the earliest stage. At the time of conception, it remains a single cell. This possible single cell has no rights to invoke under federal law.

The truth is that not even many Roman Catholics abide by the more extreme doctrines of the Catholic faith, such as the prohibition of all forms of contraception, including condoms, barriers, and even withdrawal.

There is nothing preventing those who choose to do so, to abide by this religious teaching. There is also nothing to justify invoking the authority of the federal government to force this particular religious belief on everyone.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-30   18:20:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: nolu chan, Vicomte13 (#20)

The authority of the Federal government is sought to enforce a religious moral position preventing the use of an abortifacient before it is known or knowable that any egg has been fertilized.

Abortifacients destroy the embryo. Human life has started already.

No longer just a religious moral issue. It is now premeditated taking of a human life. We cannot escape the facts of modern science.

The only haven for those who deny the scientific fact of human life beginning at conception is to arbitrarily deem what human life is important and what is allowed to be discarded. History has loads of examples of such practices.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-30   19:16:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: redleghunter (#23)

Abortifacients destroy the embryo. Human life has started already.

At the time of conception, and for days thereafter, there is no embryo. The embryo stage beings with implantation. You assume the destruction before one could exist, and presume the existence of a fertilized egg when such existence is unknown and unknowable.

One cannot escape that this is a religious moral issue. Present it to an atheist as a non-religious issue.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-30   21:44:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: nolu chan, Vicomte13 (#31)

Present it to an atheist as a non-religious issue.

Sure. I would ask the atheist at what point from conception to birth we can determine human DNA.

Then I would ask the philosopher if he or she were ever a fertilized egg.

Then I would ask a lawyer for the definition of premeditated murder.

In all our exchanges, other than my tag line, I quoted neither Scriptures nor catechism.

I could be accused of pointing out the current science of conception and the philosophical approach to the origins of life for human beings.

But here's the rub. Atheists have no reason to consider the timing of life. They can ignore the DNA data, ignore that human life has value before birth. Why? Because to the average atheist there are no moral absolutes.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-10-01   1:28:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: redleghunter (#38)

Sure. I would ask the atheist at what point from conception to birth we can determine human DNA.

Then I would ask the philosopher if he or she were ever a fertilized egg.

Then I would ask a lawyer for the definition of premeditated murder.

Identification of rapists may be performed using sperm.

As to your interest in a lawyerly definition of murder, that may be found in Black's Law Dictionary.

Murder. The unlawful killing of a human being by another with malice aforethought, either express or implied.

Premeditation. The act of meditating in advance; deliberation upon a contemplated act; plotting or contriving; a design formed to do something before it is done. Decision or plan to commit a crime, such as murder, before committing it. ....

Premeditation is one of the elements of first degree murder, and in this context, means that defendant acts with either the intention or the knowledge that he will kill another human being when such intention or knowledge precedes the killing by a length of time to permit reflection.

A single-cell zygote is not a human being. Abortion is not unlawful, and no lawful act can be murder.

When considering the legal context, religion and morals are not the paramount concern. If abortion is lawful, it ain't murder.

In all our exchanges, other than my tag line, I quoted neither Scriptures nor catechism.

Nor did I say that you had. However, if one does not infer something akin to sacred life, a divine soul, or something related to some religious belief, the argument reduces to discussion of a non-person.

The discussion morphs between faith and morality, and an argument to find some federal government function to criminalize all abortions. The Supreme Court has held, rightly or wrongly, that there is a constitutional right to abortion. This strikes down all state and federal statutes to criminalize or prevent abortion. The is absolutely no legal argument to make short of a constitutional amendment or seeking a Supreme Court reversal.

I could be accused of pointing out the current science of conception and the philosophical approach to the origins of life for human beings.

You could point to newly discovered video surveillance showing a supreme being having written an eleventh commandment to the effect that thou shalt not commit abortion, and until the law changes, that, science and philosophy do not change the laws by themselves.

But here's the rub. Atheists have no reason to consider the timing of life. They can ignore the DNA data, ignore that human life has value before birth. Why? Because to the average atheist there are no moral absolutes.

Of course, athiests can believe that life begins at conception. Many scientists are atheists. They can take DNA data into consideration and find that personhood and constitutional rights begin at the moment of birth.

Basically, it is not a function of the federal government to impose anyone's religious or moral beliefs on anyone else. The power of the executive comes from the Constitution, as amended, and statutes as written by the Legislature persuant to the Constitution. The judiciary is not there to judge what is moral, but what is legal.

Your arguments are generally sound based upon your view of religion and morality. They are not consistent with the law. For better or worse, the law is what it is, not what anyone would prefer to to be.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-10-02   18:42:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 41.

#44. To: nolu chan (#41)

A single-cell zygote is not a human being. Abortion is not unlawful, and no lawful act can be murder.

I know it is not your premise, however the above has two major issues.

First life starts somewhere. You and I and everyone who ever existed started somewhere. We were all a zygote. A human zygote to be precise.

When fertilization occurs, half of the father’s chromosomes and half of the mother’s chromosomes combine to form a full set of chromosomes. This does not simply mash the two together – their combination creates an entirely new set of DNA, unique to each individual (except for identical twins, of course).

This means two things, each of equal importance. First, the DNA of these cells is what classifies it as human, not the way it looks. As Hadley Arkes notes, “all species are identified biologically by their genetic composition, and by that measure the offspring of Homo sapiens cannot be anything other than Homo sapiens”[2]. Genetics are not to be taken as a part of what determines the status of a human – they are indeed the only thing that could establish this. With the mapping of the human genome finally being completed, geneticists can now fully differentiate human DNA from that of apes, cows, and corn. This also means that humans can only bear humans and come from humans. This all seems pretty elementary, but has profound implications for many a pro-choice argument. Many push the idea of the “ball of cells” to establish that what is in the womb is not human. Considering the scientific fact that humans come only from humans and that that is determined by the DNA of the cells, one must wonder, if this “ball” is not human, what else could it possibly be?

Abortion is not unlawful, and no lawful act can be murder.

Of course, only if our laws are devoid of moral absolutes. Abortion legalized is a lawful way to terminate human life. If that is not murder then it is a state sanctioned execution without trial. When we execute adult convicted murderers we are still killing them. Difference is they can appeal. So the death penalty is legalized termination of human life...killing the convict.

I understand you approach this exchange from a purely legal standpoint. However, human societies are not populated by just legal automatons. Our laws as well as our lives have origins. For our laws there are values and values are determined by moral absolutes. If our laws are not based on moral absolutes, then we have devolved to moral relativism. Abortion is the prime example of moral relativism. We have allowed the capricious vote of 9 persons to define life. We have ceded life for a woman's pursuit of abortion.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-10-02 23:53:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 41.

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