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Title: APPELLANT KIM DAVIS' EMERGENCY MOTION FOR IMMEDIATE CONSIDERATION AND MOTION TO STAY DISTRICT COURT'S SEPTEMBER 3, 2015 INJUNCTION ORDER PENDING APPEAL
Source: Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals
URL Source: https://assets.documentcloud.org/do ... 315injunctionpendingappeal.pdf
Published: Sep 11, 2015
Author: Roger K. Gannam, Counsel for Appellant K
Post Date: 2015-09-12 00:07:53 by nolu chan
Keywords: None
Views: 13205
Comments: 112

The complete filing, with appendices, is a 244 pp PDF.

Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 1

No. 15-5880

IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE SIXTH CIRCUIT

APRIL MILLER, Ph.D; KAREN ANN ROBERTS; SHANTEL BURKE; STEPHEN NAPIER; JODY FERNANDEZ; KEVIN HOLLOWAY; L. AARON SKAGGS; and BARRY SPARTMAN,
Plaintiffs-Appellees,
v.
KIM DAVIS, Individually, Defendant-Appellant.

On Appeal From The United States District Court For The Eastern District of Kentucky In Case No. 15-cv-00044 Before The Honorable David L. Bunning

APPELLANT KIM DAVIS' EMERGENCY MOTION FOR IMMEDIATE CONSIDERATION AND MOTION TO STAY DISTRICT COURT'S SEPTEMBER 3, 2015 INJUNCTION ORDER PENDING APPEAL

A.C. Donahue Horatio G. Mihet, Counsel of Record
DONAHUE LAW GROUP, P.S.C. Roger K. Gannam
P.O. Box 659 Jonathan D. Christman
Somerset, Kentucky 42502 LIBERTY COUNSEL
(606) 677-2741 P.O. Box 540774
ACDonahue@DonahueLawGroup.com
Orlando, Florida 32854
(800) 671-1776

hmihet@lc.org / rgannam@lc.org / j christman@lc.org
Counsel for Appellant Kim Davis

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 2

Pursuant to Fed. R. App. P. 8(a)(2) and 27, Appellant Kim Davis ("Davis") hereby moves this Court, on an emergency basis, for a stay pending appeal of the district court's September 3, 2015 injunction order. (R.74.)

INTRODUCTION

This appeal began with the district court's entry of its August 12, 2015 preliminary injunction ordering Davis to issue marriage licenses to the named Plaintiffs. (R.43 (the "Injunction").) Davis immediately filed a notice of appeal of the Injunction, bringing it within this Court's jurisdiction, and depriving the district court of jurisdiction to alter or expand the Injunction's scope.1 (R.44 (Injunction and notice of appeal attached hereto as Exhibit A).) But the district court did just that, without fair notice or hearing, by entering a new injunction order that materially expanded the original Injunction while it was already on appeal to this Court. (R.74 (the "Expanded Injunction").) The district court's Expanded Injunction lays waste to well-established principles of jurisdiction and due process in the federal court system while an appeal is pending. And, under color of the Expanded Injunction, the district court has coopted a supervisory role over the operations of the Rowan County, Kentucky Clerk's Office.

__________
1 Davis presented substantial arguments against the merits of the Injunction in its motion to stay the Injunction pending appeal filed herein. (Doc. 15-1.) Davis will fully address the merits of the Injunction in her opening brief on the merits, to be filed with this Court at the appropriate time.

1

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 3

Davis timely appealed the Expanded Injunction. (R.82 (Expanded Injunction and notice of appeal attached hereto as Exhibit B).) Quite apart from Davis' religious liberty interests involved in her appeal of the original Injunction on the merits, her appeal of the Expanded Injunction, and this request for stay, involve only the issue of the district court's acting without jurisdiction. The district court's far-reaching expansion of the original Injunction must be reversed, and should be stayed pending this Court's decision on the merits.

STATEMENT OF FACTS

The Injunction

On July 2, 2015, less than one week after the Supreme Court decided Obergefell v. Hodges and the Kentucky Governor issued a directive ordering all county clerks to personally authorize the issuance of Kentucky marriage licenses to same-sex couples, Plaintiffs filed this lawsuit demanding that Davis authorize and approve their Kentucky marriage licenses, despite widespread availability of licenses and Davis' undisputed religious conscience objection to same-sex "marriage."2 (R.1, Compl.)

__________
2 Expressly to avoid disparate treatment of any couple, Davis discontinued the issuance of all marriage licenses after Obergefell. (R.26, Prelim. Inj. Hr’g Tr. July 20, 2015, PgID 259:6-16.)

2

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 4

Plaintiffs filed the action on behalf of themselves and a putative class consisting of "all present and future individuals who, though legally eligible to marry in Kentucky, will be denied a marriage license pursuant to the Defendant's policy." (R.1, Compl., PgID 9.) "Named Plaintiffs" also moved for a preliminary injunction to bar Davis "from enforcing the challenged policy of refusing to issue marriage licenses against them" (R.2, Pls.' Mot. Prelim. Inj., PgID 34 (emphasis added)), and submitted a proposed Order enjoining Davis "from enforcing the policy of refusing to issue marriage licenses to any future marriage license applications submitted by the Named Plaintiffs" (R.2-2, Proposed Prelim. Inj. Order (emphasis added)).

The district court hastily scheduled a full evidentiary hearing on the injunction motion, to occur on July 13, 2015—just eleven days after the motion was filed. (R.5, Order.) Plaintiffs did not, however, obtain service of process on Davis prior to the hearing. (R.21, Prelim. Inj. Hr'g Tr. July 13, 2015, PgID 105:15-107:7.) Thus, Davis' counsel appeared specially and objected to the district court's proceeding with the hearing, without having obtained jurisdiction over Davis through service of process. (R.21, Prelim. Inj. Hr'g Tr. July 13, 2015, PgID 102:19-24, 105:15-106:2, 117:1-10.) Deeming the fundamental jurisdictional defects mere "Road blocks to getting to the merits," the district court overruled counsel's objection to proceeding without Davis, took evidence, and heard argument on Plaintiffs' preliminary injunction motion. (R.21, Prelim. Inj. Hr'g Tr. July 13, 2015, PgID 117:1-119:7.)

3

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 5

After allowing all of Plaintiffs' evidence and hearing argument, the district court "continued in progress" the July 13, 2015 hearing (R.21, Prelim. Inj. Hr'g Tr. July 13, 2015, PgID 207:2-4), and concluded the hearing on July 20, 2015 (R.26, Prelim. Inj. Hr' g Tr. July 20, 2015). Plaintiffs' evidence at both hearings was limited exclusively to the named Plaintiffs' claims.3

On August 12, 2015, the district court granted Plaintiffs' motion for preliminary injunction by its Memorandum Opinion and Order (R.43 (the "Injunction").) Exactly as requested by Plaintiffs in their motion and proposed order (R.2, 2-2), the Injunction enjoins Davis "from applying her 'no marriage licenses' policy to future marriage license requests submitted by Plaintiffs." (R.43, Inj., PgID 1173 (emphasis added).) Thus, there was complete agreement between what Plaintiffs requested and what the district court ordered.4

__________
3 Because the relief sought by Plaintiffs in their preliminary injunction motion was personal to them, no evidence was presented on their Complaint’s class allegations or request for class-wide relief. Plaintiffs did not file their motion for class certification until August 2, 2015.

4 In contrast to the expedited treatment of Plaintiffs’ preliminary injunction motion against Davis, the district court brushed away any urgency regarding Davis’ own motion for preliminary injunction against Third-Party Defendant Governor Beshear (R.39), and effectively denied the motion by ordering a stay (on the court’s own motion) of all proceedings on Davis’ motion pending this Court’s decision on the merits of Davis’ appeal of the Injunction against her. (R.58, Order Aug. 25, 2015, PgID 1289.) Davis appealed to this Court the district court’s effectual denial of her preliminary injunction motion (R.66, Notice of Appeal), which appeal is docketed at Case No. 15-5961.

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4

Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 6

Plaintiffs' Request For Class Certification

On August 2, 2015, Plaintiffs filed a motion for class certification. (R.31, Pls.' Mot. Class Cert.). On August 11, 2015, Davis filed a motion for extension of time to respond to Plaintiffs' class certification motion, requesting that the Court set a response date for ninety (90) days after the district court ruled on all of the motions pending before the district court at that time.5 (R.42, Mot. Ext. Time Respond.) Plaintiffs filed no written opposition to this motion in the time allotted under the Local Rules. On August 24, 2015, Davis filed a reply brief after Plaintiffs' time to oppose expired, showing that "Plaintiffs' failure to file a timely written opposition constitutes a waiver of any opposition to Davis' motion for extension of time." (R.56, Reply Br. Supp. Mot. Ext. Time Respond, PgID 1289.)

On August 25, 2015, the district court granted Davis' motion for extension of time. (R.57, Virtual Order Aug. 25, 2015 ("Plaintiffs having filed no opposition to the MOTION, IT IS ORDERED that Defendant Davis' response to said motion is due 30 days after the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals renders its decision on the appeal of the Court's granting of Plaintiffs' motion for a preliminary injunction.").)

__________
5 These pending motions included Plaintiffs’ motion for preliminary injunction (R.2), Davis’ motion to dismiss Plaintiffs’ Complaint (R.32), and Davis’ motion for preliminary injunction (R.39).

5

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 7

The effect of this order was to stay all proceedings on Plaintiffs' class certification motion until this Court decides the appeal of the Injunction on the merits.

Plaintiffs' Motion to "Clarify" the Injunction and the "Hearing"

Despite the unambiguous agreement between what Plaintiffs requested in their motion for preliminary injunction and what the district court granted in the Injunction, Plaintiffs manufactured a disingenuous motion to "clarify" the Injunction to encompass a class of persons not covered by the Injunction. (R.68, Pls.' Mot. "Clarify" Prelim. Inj.) Specifically, Plaintiffs moved:

for an order to clarify or, in the alternative, to modify the preliminary injunction to state unambiguously that the preliminary injunction applies not only to future marriage license requests submitted by the four named Plaintiff couples in this action, but also to requests submitted by other individuals who are legally eligible to marry in Kentucky.

(R.68, Pls.' Mot. "Clarify" Prelim. Inj., PgID 1488 (emphasis added).) Thus, rather than a motion to "clarify," Plaintiffs actually sought to convert the Injunction's relief, which was limited and personal to them by their own request, into a class-wide preliminary injunction even though (1) they had never previously requested a class-wide injunction (R.2-2, Proposed Prelim. Inj. Order), (2) they presented no actual evidence regarding the purported "other members of the putative class" (R.68, Pls.' Mot. "Clarify" Prelim. Inj., PgID 1489); and (3) their actual motion for class certification was stayed. (R.57, Virtual Order Aug. 25, 2015.)

6

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 8

Plaintiffs filed their motion to "clarify" the Injunction on September 1, 2015, three weeks after the district court entered its Injunction. (R.68, Pls.' Mot. "Clarify" Prelim. Inj., PgID 1488-91.) Moreover, Plaintiffs' motion to "clarify" was filed on the heels of, or "contemporaneously with" (Plaintiffs' words), their motion to hold Davis in contempt of court for violating the Injunction by failing to authorize a marriage license for one Plaintiff couple. (R.67, Pls.' Contempt Mot.) Within minutes of Plaintiffs' filing the contempt motion, the district court scheduled a contempt hearing to occur two days later, ordered Davis and all of her deputy clerks to be present at the hearing, and limited Davis to filing a five-page opposition by close of business the next day (which Davis did).6 (R.69, Order Sept. 1, 2015, PgID 1496; see also R.72, Contempt Resp., PgID 1540-46.)

Approximately forty-eight hours later, on September 3, 2015, the district court commenced the hearing it had exclusively noticed for Plaintiffs' contempt motion. (R.69, Order Sept. 1, 2015, PgID 1496 ("IT IS ORDERED that this matter be, and is, hereby set for a hearing on Plaintiffs Motion to Hold Defendant Kim Davis in Contempt of Court DE[67] on Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 11:00 a.m. in Ashland, Kentucky."); R.78, Contempt Hr'g (the hearing transcript, attached hereto

__________
6 In her response brief opposing Plaintiffs’ contempt motion, Davis specifically stated that she opposed Plaintiffs’ thinly-veiled motion to “clarify” the Injunction, and intended to file a written opposition in accordance with the Local Rules (21 days after service). (R.72, Contempt Resp., PgID 1542.)

7

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 9

as Exhibit C).) Before taking up the contempt motion, however, and without any advance notice to Davis, the district court called up Plaintiffs' motion to "clarify" the Injunction. (R.78, Contempt Hr'g, PgID 1570:21-1571:22, 1572:19-1573:19.) Davis' counsel objected to proceeding on the motion to "clarify" due to lack of fair notice, and due to the district court's lack of jurisdiction to expand the Injunction because it was already on appeal. (R.78, Contempt Hr'g, PgID 1573:20-1580:19.)

The district court acknowledged that the motion to "clarify" was not noticed for hearing. (R.78, Contempt Hr'g, PgID 1571:18-20 ("The case wasn't noticed for that hearing. ").) The district court also acknowledged that the so-called "clarification" sought by Plaintiffs was, in fact, to add relief to the Injunction which was not sought by Plaintiffs in their motion for preliminary injunction. (R.78, Contempt Hr'g, PgID 1578:20-25 ("I recognize they did not request it in the original motion." (emphasis added)).) Nonetheless, over Davis' objection, and without taking any evidence to support this class-wide relief, the district court granted the expansion of the Injunction. (R.78, Contempt Hr'g, PgID 1580:3-15.) After expanding the Injunction, the court immediately passed the issue to this Court. (R.78, Contempt Hr'g, PgID 1580-81 ("We'll just include that as part of the appeal. . . . And the Sixth Circuit can certainly decide if that's appropriate.").)

Having expanded the Injunction, the district court then proceeded with hearing the only motion the court noticed for hearing, Plaintiffs' contempt motion.

8

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 10

(R.78, Contempt Hr'g, PgID 1581:18-19 ("Let me now turn to the actual merits of the matter that's before the Court.").) The court ordered Davis to jail as a contempt sanction for Davis' refusal to issue a marriage license, in violation of her conscience, to one Plaintiff couple.7 (R.78, Contempt Hr'g, PgID 1659:22-1661:25.) The condition for Davis' release would be her compliance with the Expanded Injunction, not the original Injunction (R.78, Contempt Hr'g, PgID 1661:18-1662:16.) The district court then appointed criminal defense counsel for each of Davis' deputy clerks—all of whom had been summoned in advance to the hearing—and interrogated each deputy clerk as to whether each of them would issue marriage licenses without Davis' authorization. (R.78, Contempt Hr'g, PgID 1667:19­

__________
7 The district court memorialized this most severe of contempt sanctions against Davis by a mere “minutes” order (R.75 (the “Contempt Order”)); no formal written order has been entered. (R.78, Contempt Hr’g, PgID 1651:21-24 (“I haven’t decided if I’m going to enter a written order or not. I probably will enter some sort of written order following up the Court’s decision.”).) Davis separately appealed the Contempt Order to this Court (R. 83, Contempt Order Notice of Appeal), which appeal has been docketed as Case No. 15-5978. Davis also filed therein, on September 8, 2015, an emergency motion to stay the Contempt Order pending appeal. As shown in Davis’ emergency motion to stay the Contempt Order, and as will be more fully developed in Davis’ brief on the merits of that order at the appropriate time, the district court failed to provide Davis requisite due process in the contempt proceedings. Among other fundamental errors, the district court provided no notice that it would significantly expand and alter its Injunction at the contempt hearing, while the Injunction was already on appeal, and then confine Davis to prison based upon the ultra vires and expanded preliminary injunction.

9

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 11

1730:6.) All but one (Davis' son) were coerced by the threat of contempt sanctions to answer "yes."8 (Id.)

On September 8, 2015, the sixth day of Davis' incarceration, Plaintiffs filed a status report, showing the district court that the Plaintiffs had received marriage licenses from the deputy clerks.9 (R.84, Status Report.) Following the status report, the district court ordered Davis released, stating in its order the court was "satisfied that the Rowan County Clerk's Office is fulfilling its obligation to issue marriage licenses" under the Injunction. (R.89 (the "Release Order"), PgID 1827-28.) The Release Order commands, however, "Davis shall not interfere in any way, directly

__________
8 One deputy clerk, Kristie Plank, has the primary responsibility within the Rowan County Clerk’s Office for servicing automobile dealers, a critical position within the office which does not include the issuance of marriage licenses. (R.78, Contempt Hr’g, PgID 1698:25-1705:5.) She expressed concern with assenting to the issuance of marriage licenses to the extent it would interfere with her legitimate existing responsibilities. (Id.) Another deputy clerk, Melissa Thompson, tearfully agreed to issue licenses under the court’s order, but was clearly under duress, stating, “I don’t really want to, but I will comply with the law. I’m a preacher’s daughter, and this is the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life . . . . None of us hate anybody. It’s just hard.” (R.78, Contempt Hr’g, 1692:17-1697:8.)

9 The status report showed that three of the four Plaintiff couples had received marriage licenses. (R.84, Status Report, PgID 1798.) Plaintiffs had previously shown the court, however, that as of August 13, 2015, Plaintiffs Burke and Napier were “making new wedding arrangements.” (R.46, Pls.’ Resp. Mot. Stay Prelim. Inj., PgID 1235.) This fourth couple has never testified in this case or otherwise supplied verified proof that they are qualified to obtain a marriage license, or that they have not received one, both prerequisites to injunctive relief. (R.29, Resp. Pls.’ Mot. Prelim. Inj., PgID 359.) Moreover, based on the status report, the district court found, “Plaintiffs have obtained marriage licenses . . . .” (R.89, Release Order, PgID 1827.)

10

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 12

or indirectly, with the efforts of her deputy clerks to issue marriage licenses," on pain of new sanctions for contempt. (R.89, Release Order, PgID 1828.) The order also requires the deputy clerks, through their appointed criminal defense counsel, to file status reports with the district court every fourteen days. (R.89, Release Order, PgID 1828.)

Emergency Motion to Stay

Davis now moves this Court for an order staying the September 3, 2015 Expanded Injunction pending appeal. Seeking a ruling from the district court on a stay request is "impracticable" under Fed. R. App. P. 8(a)(2)(A)(i), due to the extraordinary doggedness of the district court to expand the Injunction, without jurisdiction or fair notice and opportunity to be heard, and the district court's haste to pass the matter to this Court for determination—"the Sixth Circuit can certainly decide if that's appropriate" (R.78, Contempt Hr'g, PgID 1580-81). Accordingly, Davis now seeks a stay from this Court.

ARGUMENT

In deciding a motion for stay pending appeal, this Court balances the same four factors that are traditionally considered in evaluating a motion for preliminary injunction: "(1) the likelihood that the party seeking the stay will prevail on the merits of the appeal; (2) the likelihood that the moving party will be irreparably harmed absent a stay; (3) the prospect that others will be harmed if the court grants

11

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 13

the stay; and (4) the public interest in granting the stay." Mich. Coal. of Radioactive Material Users, Inc. v. Griepentrog, 945 F.2d 150, 153 (6th Cir. 1991).

I. Davis has a sufficient likelihood of success on the merits of her appeal to warrant an immediate stay of the Expanded Injunction.

The district court had no jurisdiction to enter the Expanded Injunction. Thus, it is a nullity. There is no doubt as to Davis' likelihood of success in obtaining reversal of the Expanded Injunction on the merits.

"[A] a district court may not alter or enlarge the scope of its judgment pending appeal . . . ." N.L.R.B. v. Cincinnati Bronze, Inc., 829 F.2d 585, 588 (6th Cir. 1987). "The standard for jurisdiction after the filing of the notice of appeal . . . is that a district court may enforce its judgment but not expand upon it." Am. Town Ctr. v. Hall 83 Associates, 912 F.2d 104, 110-11 (6th Cir. 1990) (emphasis added); cf. United States v. State of Mich., Nos. 94-2391, 95-1258, 1995 WL 469430, *18 (6th Cir. 1995) ("[S]ince the district court's . . . orders were already on appeal, the district court lacked jurisdiction . . . to reduce the number of mental health beds which it had required defendants to provide in its . . . orders." (emphasis added)).

Any amendment of an order without jurisdiction is a "nullity." Workman v. Tate, 958 F.2d 164, 168 (6th Cir. 1992) ("Since the district court was without jurisdiction to amend its order . . . the Amended Order . . . is a nullity."); United States v. Holloway, 740 F.2d 1373, 1382 (6th Cir. 1984) ("In the present case, the

12

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 14

district court's order is 'null and void since that court was without jurisdiction . . . after the appeal had been taken.'").

Plaintiffs' Motion for Preliminary Injunction expressly, and only, sought to enjoin Davis to issue licenses to the "Named Plaintiffs." The resulting Injunction enjoined Davis to issue licenses, expressly and only, to the "Plaintiffs." The scope of the Injunction could not be clearer. There is no "confusion as to the Order's scope," as Plaintiffs facetiously allege in their thinly-veiled motion to "clarify." (R.68, Pls.' Mot. "Clarify" Prelim. Inj., PgID 1489.) Thus, expanding the class of persons entitled to licenses pursuant to the Injunction—to include anyone in the world who wants a marriage license in Rowan County—can in no way be described as a clarification. The expansion of the class is an expansion of the Injunction, which the district court had no jurisdiction to do. Thus, the Expanded Injunction is a nullity, and unquestionably is due to be reversed on the merits.

II. Davis is substantially more harmed than the named Plaintiffs absent a stay of the Expanded Injunction pending appeal.

In weighing the harm that will occur as a result of granting or denying a stay, this Court generally considers three factors: "(1) the substantiality of the injury alleged; (2) the likelihood of its occurrence; and (3) the adequacy of the proof provided." Michigan Coal., 945 F.2d at 154. The "key word" in this consideration

13

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 15

is "irreparable," and the harm must be "both certain and immediate, rather than speculative or theoretical." Id.

Given the strength of Davis' position on the merits, her required showing on irreparable injury is reduced. "The probability of success that must be demonstrated is inversely proportional to the amount of irreparable injury [the moving party] will suffer absent the say. Simply stated, more of one excuses less of the other." Mich. Coal., 945 F.2d at 153 (internal citation omitted). In other words, "a stay may be granted with either a high probability of success and some injury or vice versa." State of Ohio v. Nuclear Regulatory Comm 'n, 812 F.2d 288, 290 (6th Cir. 1987). Nonetheless, Davis's harm from the denial of a stay will be both real and irreparable.

Pursuant to the Release Order, the district court is now supervising the operations and personnel of the Rowan County Clerk's Office, including Davis as the Clerk, and her deputy clerks. (R.89, Release Order, PgID 1828.) Far from being straightforward, however, the Release Order's command that "Davis shall not interfere in any way, directly or indirectly, with the efforts of her deputy clerks to issue marriage licenses" substantially and ambiguously interferes with Davis' ability to manage the legitimate affairs of her office which are unrelated to her individual position on marriage licensing.

For example, Davis' management judgment to assign a particular deputy clerk or clerks exclusively to non-marriage-licensing duties—based on the needs of the

14

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 16

office10—could be deemed "interference] . . . in any way, directly or indirectly, with the efforts of her deputy clerks to issue marriage licenses . . . ." (R.89, Release Order, PgID 1828.) Furthermore, the Release Order's directive conflicts with Davis' own legal duty, as an employer, to consider and grant as appropriate any deputy clerk's request for religious accommodation relating to marriage licenses11 under laws like Title VII and the Kentucky RFRA. These ambiguous burdens on Davis' management of the affairs of her office all carry the specter of new (and presumably, more severe) contempt sanctions, and the threat is indefinite because the Expanded Injunction opens the Injunction's relief to everyone (in the world) who may desire a Kentucky marriage license issued in Rowan County. The harm from having to operate under this constant threat is irreparable, for even success on the merits of Davis' appeals cannot restore the months of constant strain imposed on Davis, her office, and her employees by the district court's intrusive supervision.

The foregoing burdens and threats of contempt sanctions are more than hypothetical; Davis has already spent six days in jail that Plaintiffs could obtain the relief ordered by the original Injunction (while its merits are still on appeal). But, such burdens and threats are unnecessary and improper. As an order of enforcement, the Release Order serves no purpose with respect to the original Injunction because

__________
10 See supra, n. 8.

11 See supra, n. 8.

15

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 17

only the Plaintiffs were granted relief in the original Injunction, and the district court is already "satisfied" that Plaintiffs have received their ordered relief. (R.89, Release Order, PgID 1827-28.) Thus, the district court only has an enforcement interest under the Expanded Injunction which, as shown herein, is null and void as exceeding the district court's jurisdiction. Only a stay of the Expanded Injunction pending Davis' appeal will avoid this onerous and improper exercise of enforcement power.

In stark contrast to the threat of sanctions hanging over Davis each day she enters her office while waiting for relief from an impartial audience in this Court on her appeals, Plaintiffs will suffer no harm if the Expanded Injunction is stayed pending appeal. Plaintiffs have already received the benefits of the Injunction, to the "satisfaction" of the district court. (R.89, Release Order, PgID 1827-28.) Plaintiffs received no additional relief from the Expanded Injunction; staying its enforcement pending Davis's appeal cannot harm them.

III. The public interest favors granting a stay.

No public interest is served by upholding an order exceeding a district court's jurisdiction. To the contrary, the public is only served by the disregard of any such order, which is "null and void." See Holloway, 740 F.2d at 1382.

Furthermore, the federal court supervision over Davis' office imposed by the Release Order, in enforcement of the Expanded Injunction, violates established principles of federalism and comity, usurping the role of a publicly elected official

16

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 18

in the Commonwealth of Kentucky and invading the province, discretion, and affairs of her office. It is also contrary to contempt principles, for in devising enforcement remedies, federal courts are to "take into account the interests of state and local authorities in managing their own affairs, consistent with the Constitution." Milliken v. Bradley, 433 U.S. 267, 280-81 (1977). Indeed, it is incumbent upon federal district courts that sanctions imposed against state officials should be the "least intrusive" remedy available. See Kendrick v. Bland, 740 F.2d 432, 438 (6th Cir. 1984); Spallone v. U.S., 493 U.S. 265, 276 (1990). The public is not served by the violation of such principles for any length of time.

As shown herein, from the commencement of this case, Plaintiffs have received procedural preferences, notwithstanding even fundamental jurisdictional defects. Davis has received the opposite, culminating in incarceration for conscience, and the threat of more severe sanctions under an invalid order which the district court had no jurisdiction to enter. For all of the foregoing reasons, Davis requests the following:

17

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 19

RELIEF REQUESTED

Appellant Kim Davis respectfully requests that this Court: (1) grant immediate consideration and (2) enter an order staying the district court's September 3, 2015 Expanded Injunction pending final resolution of the appeal in this Court.

DATED: September 10, 2015

A.C. Donahue
Donahue Law Group, P.S.C.
P.O. Box 659
Somerset, Kentucky 42502
(606) 677-2741
ACDonahue@DonahueLawGroup.com

Respectfully submitted:
/s/ Roger K. Gannam

Horatio G. Mihet, Counsel of Record
Roger K. Gannam
Jonathan D. Christman
Liberty Counsel, P.O. Box 540774
Orlando, Florida 32854
(800) 671-1776
hmihet@lc.org / rgannam@lc.org / jchristman@lc.org
Counsel for Appellant Kim Davis

18

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Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 20

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE

I hereby certify that on this 11th day of September, 2015, I caused the foregoing document to be filed electronically with the Court, where it is available for viewing and downloading from the Court's ECF system, and that such electronic filing automatically generates a Notice of Electronic Filing constituting service of the filed document upon the following:

William Ellis Sharp
ACLU of Kentucky
315 Guthrie Street, Suite 300
Louisville, KY 40202
sharp@aclu-ky.org

Daniel J. Canon
Laura E. Landenwich
Leonard Joe Dunman
Clay Daniel Walton Adams, PLC
462 S. Fourth Street, Suite 101
Louisville, KY 40202
dan@justiceky.com
laura@justiceky.com
joe@justiceky.com
Counsel for Appellees

William M. Lear, Jr. Palmer G. Vance II
Stoll Keenon Ogden PLLC
300 West Vine Street, Suite 2100
Lexington, KY 40507-1380
william.lear@skofirm.com gene.vance@skofirm.com
Counsel for Third Party Defendants-Appellees

Daniel Mach
Heather L. Weaver
ACLU Foundation
915 15th Street, NW, Suite 6th Floor
Washington, DC 20005
dmach@aclu.org hweaver@aclu.org

James D. Esseks
Ria Tabacco Mar
ACLU Foundation
125 Broad Street, 18th Floor
New York, NY 10004
jesseks@aclu.org rmar@aclu.org

- - - - -

Case: 15-5880 Document: 43 Filed: 09/11/2015 Page: 21

/s/ Roger K. Gannam

Roger K. Gannam
Liberty Counsel
P.O. Box 540774
Orlando, Florida 32854
(800) 671-1776
rgannam@lc.org


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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 105.

#5. To: nolu chan (#0) (Edited)

The case turns, and fails, on footnote 1. Yes, Davis filed appeals, but the appeals were frivolous. Gay marriage is a constitutional right, and Davis' actions, including the appeal, were (and are) an invidious attempt to prevent people from exercising their constitutional rights.

Her lawyers claim that there were substantial arguments in her brief against the injunction, but as a matter of legal fact those arguments are not (or will be found not to be) substantial: she is simply seeking to evade doing her constitutional duty, and to delay doing it as long as possible.

The Supreme Court refused to hear her case, and the Sixth Circuit may grant her a hearing, but will then move to rapidly dispose of it.

Marriage is within the sphere of privacy that IS a right, and the Supreme Court has found even gay marriage to be a constitutional right. It is stare decisis.

Therefore, Davis has no basis whatever on which to continue to resist decided law EITHER by refusing to issue licenses to gays, or by depriving EVERYBODY of their right to marry by refusing to issue any licenses at all.

The notion that people can just "go to the next town" is not valid for constitutional rights. Blacks could just "go to the next hotel", or the next restaurant or store, but the whole point of the Court decisions, then and now, is to compel EVERYBODY who faces people in government or in commerce to respect the constitutional rights in question of everybody else.

The Sixth Circuit is not going to permit any delay, and is not going to give her a long hearing. They're going to slap her down and uphold the injunctive relief granted by the judge. Nor will the Sixth Circuit permit Davis and her lawyers to play the delaying game. It will be very much as it was with the birthers: the courts are not interested in the argument. And in this case the Supreme Court has decided that gay marriage is a constitutional right. Most of the judiciary agrees. The Sixth Circuit is not going to allow itself to become a vehicle by which individual officials assert what amounts to a right of rebellion against provisions of the Constitution they do not like. And it isn't going to permit things to dissolve into a circus either.

The Supreme Court has spoken, twice - first in the gay marriage decision, and second in their refusal to hear Davis' case when she first brought it to them. The District Judge already resorted to jailing for contempt, and a work-around has been found for this rebellious official. She has no case on the merits of her actions: they are unconstitutional, and the Sixth isn't going to let itself be harnessed up so that she can play a delaying game to thwart the Supreme Court. She can file briefs, but the Courts will swiftly dispose of them. In the end, she loses in the American Court system,. You cannot stand against a recent constitutuonal decision and win, especially not a popular one.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-12   8:09:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Vicomte13 (#5)

Therefore, Davis has no basis whatever on which to continue to resist decided law EITHER by refusing to issue licenses to gays, or by depriving EVERYBODY of their right to marry by refusing to issue any licenses at all.

Bullshit you liberal.

Tell the slaves to get back to work. Dred Scott sais they were slavew and have to worik.

Don't go kiilling no slave masters.

The government says jump. Then you support faggots pretending.

You are for Sodom and Gomorran and Gonohrea.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-09-12   11:01:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: A K A Stone (#11)

Bullshit you liberal.

Oh for God's sake Stone, take a Stresstab.

I AM NOT THE SUPREME COURT. I AM NOT THE SIXTH CIRCUIT. MY will does not run this country.

I AM a very experienced lawyer. I am telling you all how it IS, not how I wish it to be.

You guys remind me of the French general staff before World War II. They HAD an officer, heavily decorated in World War I, who preached combined arms, air and armor, don't build forts, build maneuvering elements, massed tanks to breakthrough and exploit into the enemy's rear, supported by tactical airpower - what would come to be called the "blitzkrieg". He wrote the book on it. The Germans BOUGHT the book, thousands of copies. Hitler read the book, and he gave it to his generals, and THEY read the book, and trained to it. The "blitzkrieg" was not developed by the Germans, it was conceived and mapped out by a French war hero named Charles de Gaulle.

The French didn't just ignore de Gaulle, the Army went after him to scotch his career. He had two Medals of Honor equivalents from World War I - a real hero, a real genius, but he was telling things they didn't want to hear, so they kept him a Colonel until the last minute, then made him a General and ignored him. and vilified him even as their country went to pieces.

I'm de Gaulle here, TELLING YOU GUYS how it IS. It ISN'T how ANY of us would like it to be. The situation is absolutely shitty. But it IS what it is, and pretending it isn't, or that some voodoo right wing read of the Constitution is going to rise like an angel from the 25% and win the day is ridiculous.

Davis has appealed. She is not going to WIN the appeal, and she is not going to successfully delay anything. This gay movement is not going to be stopped by casting constitutional spells - the Constitution does not EXIST, except as ideas in people's minds, and the majority of people ARE NOT strict constructionists. The majority of the judges MOST CERTAINLY are not.

It's one thing to wish that things weren't as they are, but it's another thing to try to catch a falling knife. Davis has lost. She cannot possibly win in this America with these judges believing as they do, and with the whole apparatus of police, marshals, Army, Congress and President arrayed in a certain belief set.

She is the French Army and it is 1940. No amount of twisting and turning and screaming at the staff is going to un-lose the battle.

And I'm your General de Gaulle TELLING YOU HOW IT IS, and I've BEEN telling people how it is for a long time. The French kept him out of power, and the British kept Churchill out of power, and they lost or damn near lost their country for doing it.

Screaming at me is stupid.

I am not advocating for homosexuality. I am TELLING YOU how the game is going to play out. If you want to write fairy tales about how some mystery Constitution is going to rise up with legions of angels wearing tricorn hats and SAVE America, write away. In the real world, Davis is toast and her argument will be a complete rout. She will win nothing, and she will either comply, step aside and let others do it, or she will go to jail.

If I could raise my hand and make lots of people I disagree with disappear, I would probably do it,. But I can't. And neither can anybody else on the right.

And the REASON is that we have allied ourselves with schmucks and compromised with people who were greedy and had their own self-interest at heart, and who were NEVER on our side. That has been visible for a long time. And people like you have been shooting messengers like me for a long time.

YOU and your ilk have bought us this disaster. I've been screaming the truth for a long time, and getting shot at by guys like you.

Well, I'm STILL telling you the truth. I'm telling you WHY you are losing, and WHY you are going to keep losing. The Constitution doesn't HAVE a guardian angel, and God is not going to rescue it. Only men have angels, and shooting at your own allies, like you just did, is what has already lost you your country.

There is actually a path to VICTORY. But it never leads through the valley of self-deceit.

If you're screaming at me as a sodomite, then you have lost your mind. You are wrong in every sense. You should be silent, sit down, and listen to the truth. As it is, you're like a Taliban dead- ender charging the guns. You don't like sodomite marriage (and neither do I), but NOBODY THE FUCK CARES what we don't like. And the CONSTITUTION DOES NOT EXIST as a force in our arsenal. We are very much the weaker side. The other aide has the government, the army, the court, the media and the money.

All we've got is GOD, and that IS enough, but ONLY if we actually OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS. And going off on a hotheaded rant against you own allies, who are telling you the TRUTH is just about as far from God as you can get.

It's why you lose. Attacking me is why you lose. Attacking people like me is why you lose. I am on your side, but I am smart, and I don't go berserk and charge the guns.

Remember that "be as subtle as serpents" part? Jesus said that. That is me, the subtle serpent ion your side.

If you squash me, the Devil squashes you. You need to stop screaming in anger at your own allies and listen.

You're the French General staff. I'm de Gaulle. It's 1i936. I can tell you what to do to win, but you have to LISTEN, and stop screaming your head off.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-12   16:59:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Vicomte13, Too Conservative, SOSO, redleghunter, A K A Stone, Pinguinite, Liberator, buckeroo, GrandIsland (#22)

Davis has appealed. She is not going to WIN the appeal, and she is not going to successfully delay anything. This gay movement is not going to be stopped by casting constitutional spells - the Constitution does not EXIST, except as ideas in people's minds, and the majority of people ARE NOT strict constructionists. The majority of the judges MOST CERTAINLY are not.

It's one thing to wish that things weren't as they are, but it's another thing to try to catch a falling knife. Davis has lost. She cannot possibly win in this America with these judges believing as they do, and with the whole apparatus of police, marshals, Army, Congress and President arrayed in a certain belief set.

She may win this appeal on due process, much as Tom Brady's win had nothing to do with the merits of the case.

Of course, she will not "win" the supposed right to have her office not issue marriage licenses, a right nobody has asked for, and a blatant red herring. The court may be sent back to square one to start over again, but Rowan county will be made to issue marriage licenses.

Kim Davis may win an accomodation, if such is reasonably available under Kentucky RFRA. Obergefell only requires that licenses be issued, it does not strike down any existing protection which calls for reasonable accomodation.

Just as much of the Constitution is treated as a dead letter, the age of "do it or quit" is a dead letter under Title 7 and various RFRA laws. And RFRA applies to elected officials.

The Court said:

The record in this case suggests that the burden [on Davis] is more slight. As the Court has already pointed out, Davis is simply being asked to signify that couples meet the legal requirements to marry. The State is not asking her to condone same-sex unions on moral or religious grounds, nor is it restricting her from engaging in a variety of religious activities. Davis remains free to practice her Apostolic Christian beliefs. She may continue to attend church twice a week, participate in Bible Study and minister to female inmates at the Rowan County Jail. She is even free to believe that marriage is a union between one man and one woman, as many Americans do. However, her religious convictions cannot excuse her from performing the duties that she took an oath to perform as Rowan County Clerk. The Court therefore concludes that Davis is unlikely to suffer a violation of her free exercise rights under Kentucky Constitution § 5.

However, Judge Bunning may run into difficulty with the Kentucky RFRA which covers elected officials and provides, "The right to act or refuse to act in a manner motivated by a sincerely held religious belief may not be substantially burdened unless the government proves by clear and convincing evidence that it has a compelling governmental interest in infringing the specific act or refusal to act and has used the least restrictive means to further that interest." The burden explicitly includes "indirect burdens."

Quite obviously, Judge Bunning's definition of "being free to practice her Apostolic Christian beliefs" is not one shared by the sincerely held beliefs of Kim Davis. Judge Bunning appears to be skating on very thin ice, see RFRA and Tagore quoted below.

Nor can the court rely upon a claim that a reasonable accomodation is not provided for by Kentucky law. Kentucky law has not been revised and does not even provide for same-sex marriage. Nor does the Court seem inclined to motivate the Great State of Kentucky to change its constitution and laws. And the Kentucky RFRA is an applicable Kentucky law.

To what extent forcing one to perform any act to condone, or indirectly condone, same-sex marriage substantially burden's one's sincerely held religious beliefs may be gauged by public reaction and that Davis was willing to go to jail rather than to comply. Obviously, some find it very offensive to their religious beliefs. If it is slight enough to invoke RFRA, it is enough to require a showing that no accomodation is reasonably available. And a prima facie case invoking RFRA may invoke strict scrutiny.

KENTUCKY RFRA

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/13rs/HB279/bill.doc

UNOFFICIAL COPY AS OF 09/08/15 -- 13 REG. SESS. -- 13 RS HB 279/VO

AN ACT relating to construction of the law.

Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Kentucky:

SECTION 1. A NEW SECTION OF KRS CHAPTER 446 IS CREATED TO READ AS FOLLOWS:

Government shall not substantially burden a person's freedom of religion. The right to act or refuse to act in a manner motivated by a sincerely held religious belief may not be substantially burdened unless the government proves by clear and convincing evidence that it has a compelling governmental interest in infringing the specific act or refusal to act and has used the least restrictive means to further that interest. A "burden" shall include indirect burdens such as withholding benefits, assessing penalties, or an exclusion from programs or access to facilities.

- - - - -

A Federal example of sincerely held religious belief, RFRA, accomodation, and strict scrutiny.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=18258632836338775341

Tagore v. US, 735 F. 3d 324, 328-29 (5th Circuit, 2013)

DISCUSSION

1. Sincerely held religious belief.

On appeal, Tagore asserts that her evidence creates a genuine issue of material fact concerning the sincerity of her religious practice of wearing a kirpan with a blade longer than 2.5 inches. The sincerity of a plaintiff's belief in a particular religious practice is an essential part of the plaintiff's prima facie case under either Title VII or RFRA. See Weber v. Roadway Express, Inc., 199 F.3d 270, 273 (5th Cir. 2000) (Title VII); Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao do Vegetal, 546 U.S. 418, 428, 126 S.Ct. 1211, 163 L.Ed.2d 1017 (2006) (RFRA). After reviewing hundreds of pages of deposition testimony and exhibits, the district court concluded that Tagore did not create a triable issue of fact that her sincere religious beliefs require her to wear a kirpan with a 3-inch, rather than the statutorily permitted 2.5-inch, blade. With due respect to the able court, this is slicing too thin.

This court recently explored the threshold inquiry into a person's beliefs when discussing a prisoner's claim under the related Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act ("RLUIPA"). Moussazadeh v. Tex. Dept. of Criminal Justice, 703 F.3d 781, 790-92 (5th Cir. 2012). Briefly, each case turns on its particular facts. Id. at 791. The specific religious practice must be examined rather than the general scope of applicable religious tenets, and the plaintiff's "sincerity" in espousing that practice is largely a matter of individual credibility. Id. at 792. In fact, the sincerity of a plaintiff's engagement in a particular religious practice is rarely challenged. Id. at 791. As Moussazadeh explains, "[t]hough the sincerity inquiry is important, it must be handled with a light touch, or `judicial shyness.'" Id. at 792 (quoting A.A. ex rel. Betenbaugh v. Needville Indep. Sch. Dist., 611 F.3d 248, 262 (5th Cir.2010)). "[E]xamin[ing] religious convictions any more deeply would stray into the realm of religious inquiry, an area into which we are forbidden to tread." Id. (fn. omitted). Both before and following Moussazadeh, claims of sincere religious belief in a particular practice have been accepted on little more than the plaintiff's credible assertions. See, e.g., Garner v. Kennedy, 713 F.3d 237, 241 (5th Cir.2013) (Muslim prisoner's desire to wear a beard not challenged by TDCJ); Betenbaugh, 611 F.3d at 261-62 (Native American schoolboy wearing long hair a sincere religious belief; Texas RFRA parallels RFRA); Mayfield v. Tex. Dept. of Criminal Justice, 529 F.3d 599 (5th Cir.2008) (Odin worshiper's religious need for runestones and rune literature not challenged by TDCJ). There was ample evidence to create a genuine issue of material fact on the sincerity of Tagore's practice of wearing a kirpan with a 3-inch blade. The court's contrary decision focused on close questioning of Tagore in her deposition, which exhibited some ambiguity about whether her sincere beliefs require the kirpan blade, or the entire dagger, to exceed 3

[329]

inches. Cf. Moussazadeh, 703 F.3d at 792 ("stray[ing] from the path of perfect adherence" does not eviscerate claim of sincerity). She adduced voluminous evidence from the Sikh community, however, that kirpans are mandated to be worn by the religion's adherents and although there are no detailed regulations for the kirpans' appearance, most Sikhs wear kirpans with blades longer than 2.5 inches.

As the government acknowledged during the pendency of this appeal:

There is no prescribed blade length for the Kirpan; its size varies based on personal choice. The majority of Kirpan blades range in size from 3 to 6 inches, but blades may be as small as 2 inches.... Kirpan are always sheathed.... [S]ome Sikhs ... believe a Kirpan must be worn at all times....

Federal Protective Service, Policy Directive 15.9.3.1, Prohibited Items Program, Attachment 5 (2012) [hereafter, "Policy Statement"]. Tagore has worn her kirpan 24 hours a day after taking Amrit, with one exception when she travelled in an airplane. Tagore was willing to sacrifice her government employment for the sake of wearing a religiously significant symbolic kirpan. Tagore's actions, the independent evidence of Sikh practices, and the government's acknowledgement create a genuine issue of material fact as to her sincere belief in wearing a 3-inch bladed kirpan.

Tagore v. US, 735 F. 3d 324, 330- (5th Circuit, 2013)

3. RFRA.

Assuming, again, that Tagore succeeds in establishing a sincerely held religious belief that mandates her wearing a 3-inch kirpan blade, the remaining predicate to a prima facie RFRA case is whether the FPS's enforcement of Section 930(a) substantially burdened her religious practice. See Gonzales, 546 U.S. at 428, 126 S.Ct. at 1216. This is not a serious hurdle: she gave up her job rather than wear a shorter-bladed kirpan, cf. Sherbert v. Verner, 374 U.S. 398, 403-06, 83 S.Ct. 1790, 10 L.Ed.2d 965 (1963), and she risked violating federal law when she entered the Leland building while wearing it. 18 U.S.C. 930(a)(imposing a fine and up to 1 year imprisonment). Once a prima facie case is established, the government must show a compelling interest in enforcing that provision and that its means are the least restrictive to achieve its objectives. 42 U.S.C. § 2000bb-1(a)-(b)(1) and (2); Gonzales, 546 U.S. at 424, 126 S.Ct. 1211. RFRA thus applies strict scrutiny to government regulations that substantially burden a person's religious exercise.

Surely, the government has a compelling interest in protecting federal buildings and the people in and around them, and Congress's choice in defining "dangerous weapons" that cannot be introduced into the buildings to include bladed instruments exceeding 2.5 inches must be given significant deference. The Supreme Court emphasized in Gonzales, however, that RFRA requires the government to explain how applying the statutory burden "to the person" whose sincere exercise of religion is being seriously impaired furthers the

[331]

compelling governmental interest. 546 U.S. at 430-31, 126 S.Ct. 1211. A "categorical approach" is insufficient, particularly if, as here, the statute includes exceptions to the prohibition,[5] cf. id. at 430-37, 126 S.Ct. 1211, and the government must produce evidence justifying its specific conclusion. The district court held that the government carried its burden as a matter of law with affidavit testimony that building security officers must apply Section 930(a) uniformly, consistently and rigorously; authorizing individualized case-by-case determinations would undermine security.

The district court also held that the need for uniformity of application satisfied the least restrictive means test. Although the Supreme Court did not reach the less restrictive means test in Gonzales, it is settled that the government's is to explain "why alternative policies would be unfeasible, or why they would be less effective in maintaining institutional security." Spratt v. R.I. Dept. of Corr., 482 F.3d 33, 41 (1st Cir.2007). The district court rejected Tagore's citations to case law and instances in which Sikhs wearing kirpans have been granted permission to enter federal buildings, including the White House. Such examples, the court held, reflect isolated exceptions rather than the blanket individual exemption for which Tagore contends. The court also rejected Tagore's argument that she is covered by the exception in Section 930(g) that allows the bearing of "dangerous weapons" for "other lawful purposes." In this regard, it accepted the government's argument that this exception only extends to people like construction workers whose job-related duties require tools that might otherwise violate the statute.

We recite very briefly the district court's reasoning as preface to the point that it has been practically undermined by FPS's decision to acknowledge kirpans as ceremonial weapons that may be allowed in a federal building either by exception or exemption from the statute. The December 2012 FPS Policy Statement, earlier noted, "establishes FPS policy for applying security force countermeasures to mitigate prohibited item entry at Federal properties." Policy Statement at 1. The statement repeatedly references processes that "include[] allowing exceptions and exemptions to prohibited items for ... religious exercise ... or other purposes as necessary or required by law." Attachment 2 to the statement prescribes "Procedures for Exceptions and Exemptions for Otherwise Prohibited Items," Policy Statement at 5, one of which is for "accommodations" under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Attachment 5 describes "Accommodations for Sikh Articles of Faith," and instructs FPS officers that kirpans with blades longer than 2.5 inches require an exception or exemption before being carried into a federal building. One must ask, why refer to "accommodations" and append this attachment to a document describing procedures for obtaining exceptions or exemptions if, as FPS contends against Tagore, case-by-case determinations are impractical or inconsistent with maintaining security? The fact that FPS promulgated this Policy Statement after the case concluded in the district court does not prevent our taking judicial notice

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of its implication for the difficult and fact-sensitive inquiry that must accompany application of strict scrutiny under RFRA.

Because the new policy contradicts the arguments previously advanced by the government for denying Tagore an exception or exemption for the wearing of her kirpan to the Leland building, the district court's application of strict scrutiny must be reversed and remanded for further analysis.

In so doing, we emphasize that we express no opinion on the ultimate application of strict scrutiny because the government should be allowed to offer more evidence concerning its asserted need for uniform application of Section 930(a) and the impact of the new Policy Statement on this case. Precisely because kirpans may be dangerous weapons in the wrong hands or may fall into the hands of evildoers who are not Sikhs, there would seem to be support for certain limitations, e.g. on blade length, security clearance status of the bearer of the kirpan, the frequency of the bearer's visits to a particular federal facility, the degree or method of concealment, or degree of attachment to the person's body. All of these considerations, and more, may bear on the fact-intensive nature of the RFRA strict scrutiny test. Despite the importance of deferring to officials charged with maintaining domestic security, conclusional affidavits will be insufficient to overcome the policies and procedures embodied in RFRA.

CONCLUSION

For the foregoing reasons, the judgment of the district court is reversed in part and remanded in part; further proceedings are necessary to determine as a matter of fact whether Tagore holds a sincere religious belief in wearing a kirpan with a blade exceeding the federally prescribed maximum and, if so, whether the government has proven that application of Section 930(a) to Tagore furthers a compelling government interest with the least restrictive means.

AFFIRMED IN PART; REVERSED IN PART; REMANDED IN PART.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-12   19:13:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: nolu chan (#29)

Ceremonial weapons is not gay marriage.

What you should be looking at is the following line of cases:

Korematsu

The various civil rights slap downs concerning segregation.

Roe/Casey

The Commerce Clause cases of the New Deal era, particularly the grim business of the farmer and his home grown crop.

The issue is political, and the tide is very strongly running in a certain direction. No procedural game is going to derail this train. The Sixth Circuit knows that Kennedy, the Four Democrats, and probably Roberts will not hear an appeal of their decision if they decide in a way that compels respect for the constitutional right of gays to marry.

And they know the Supremes will hear them and slap them down if they play games.

Think of this as a Commerce Clause case, and it's 1938. Davis doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-12   19:33:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Vicomte13 (#33)

Korematsu

The various civil rights slap downs concerning segregation.

Roe/Casey

The Commerce Clause cases of the New Deal era, particularly the grim business of the farmer and his home grown crop.

[...]

Think of this as a Commerce Clause case, and it's 1938. Davis doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell.

Davis has a snowball's chance in hell of getting an acommodation in Kentucky from a Kentucky court where gay marriage is about as popular as root canals. It is strictly a state matter and they will do what they will do, when they get around to doing it. If they want to invalidate all of the Bunning ordered and approved gay marriage licenses as failing to comply with Kentucky law, they will do that too. Or not. Kentucky state legislators not interested in reelection in Kentucky could remove Davis from office. She would likely reelected. She's likely to be there well after the Obama administration is long gone.

Korematsu was a wartime decision about Japanese internment. Roe was about something emanating from a penumbra. Wickard was a significant grope for Federal power, grossly expanding the interstate commerce clause power.

Davis is just a little pissing match.

Korematsu, of course, is one of the most infamous wrongheaded miscarriages of justice in the history of U.S. Supreme Court holdings. The Court routinely rubber stamps executive crap in wartime. Presumably Davis compares to Korematsu because both are wrongheaded. But Davis does not reach that level of indefensible. Maybe you should have included Buck v. Bell in your list of horribles.

KOREMATSU v. UNITED STATES.

CERTIORARI TO THE CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT.

No. 22. Argued October 11, 12, 1944.-Decided December 18, 1944.

1. Civilian Exclusion Order No. 34 which, during a state of war with Japan and as a protection against espionage and sabotage, was promulgated by the Commanding General of the Western Defense Command under authority of Executive Order No. 9066 and the Act of March 21, 1942, and which directed the exclusion after May 9, 1942 from a described West Coast military area of all persons of Japanese ancestry, held constitutional as of the time it was made and when the petitioner—an American citizen of Japanese descent whose home was in the described area—violated it. P. 219.

WW3 has broken out in Rowan County, Kentucky and the Federal government must impose internment to restore order and make the land safe for all.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-13   2:11:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: nolu chan (#43)

Davis is not a little pissing match. The issue at the heart of it is fundamental to the power of the Supreme Court and the government.

On the one hand, there is a law, clearly articulated by the Supreme Court. And on the other hand there is an individual nakedly defying it because of her religion.

That religious exception - the thought that an individual can disregard the law because her God tells her too, is not tolerable in a society of law. The principle at stake is the principle of uniformity of law versus religious exception.

Reasonable accommodations are imposed on private businesses, but no reasonable accommodations, at all, are imposed upon, or philosophically admissible to, the law.

The Supreme Court has spoken. Christianity shall not be permitted to make an exception to the law for itself. The principle is big: who shall be master in America, God or the government. And the government's answer will be the government. The parade of horribles they will invoke write themselves.

It isn't about a clerk's job. It's about whether or not somebody can refuse to obey the law because of her religion. And the answer to that will be, and from the government's perspective MUST be: ABSOLUTELY NOT, under ANY circumstances. Only the GOVERNMENT can make those exceptions, and it does it according to IT'S rules. Individuals NEVER nullify the law for their religion and get away with it. Never.

Conscientious objectors went to prison, and some died. When the status was finally recognized, it was done on the government's tightly controlled terms, and lots of people who are, in fact, conscientious objectors, have been forced into battle and thence to prison, because they did not punch the government's wickets.

And those who really WERE CO's, were placed in medic units unarmed on the front lines, where they were MORE likely to get killed.

Davis' principle - that her religion says no, so she's going to disregard a recent Supreme Court decision on a very hot topic - cannot stand. It opens the door to universal lawlessness based on personal conscience.

The courts will seize this case and slap her down, hard, because they will feel they have to.

It's not a little pissing contest at all. It's a question of the rule of law itself.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-13   9:16:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Vicomte13 (#46)

Davis' principle - that her religion says no, so she's going to disregard a recent Supreme Court decision on a very hot topic - cannot stand. It opens the door to universal lawlessness based on personal conscience.

Ahhh, what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander imagine that!!

CZ82  posted on  2015-09-13   9:38:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: CZ82, Vicomte13, Too Conservative, SOSO, redleghunter, A K A Stone, Pinguinite, Liberator, buckeroo, GrandIsland (#49)

By Judge Bunning's own words, he ordering the deputy clerks to issue licenses that may, or may not, be valid and he has purportedly not looked into that point.

Court appointed lawyers represented the deputy clerks at the hearing and quoted the law in arguing against the authority of the deputy clerks to issue said licenses. When the elected Clerk is absent, as in incarcerated, Kentucky law provides that the Judge Blevins, the county judge executive could issue licenses, but in the absence of the Clerk makes no provision for the deputy clerks to issue licenses.

The issuing deputy has fully complied with Judge Bunning's order by issuing a purported license which states that it is issued pursuant to a federal court order by the city of Morehead, Kentucky.

DAVIS Hearing Transcript, 3 Sep 2015

At 1-3:

For the Plaintiffs:
Hon. William Ellis Sharp
ACLU of Kentucky
315 Guthrie Street
Suite 300
Louisville, Kentucky 40202
(502) 581-9746

Hon. Daniel J. Canon
Hon. Laura E. Landenwich
Clay Daniel Walton Adams, PLC
462 South Fourth Street Suite 101
Louisville, Kentucky 40202
(502) 561-2005

For the Defendant, Kim Davis:
Hon. Roger K. Gannam
Hon. Jonathan D. Christman
Liberty Counsel
P. O. Box 540774
Orlando, Florida 32854
(407) 875-0770

Hon. Anthony Charles Donahue
Donahue Law Group, PSC
410 South Main Street
P. O. Box 659
Somerset, Kentucky 42502-0659
(606) 677-2741

For the Defendant, Rowan County:
Hon. Cecil R. Watkins
Rowan County Attorney
600 West Main Street
Morehead, Kentucky 40351
(606) 784-4640

For the Third-Party Defendants, Beshear and Onkst:
Hon. Claire E. Parsons
Adams Stepner Woltermann & Dusing, PLLC
40 West Pike Street
P. O. Box 861
Covington, Kentucky 41012-0861
(859) 394-6200

Hon. Palmer G. Vance, II
Stoll Keenon Ogden, PLLC
300 West Vine Street Suite 2100
Lexington, Kentucky 40507
(859) 231-3000

For Amicus Curiae, Robert Stivers:
Hon. David Earl Fleenor
Stoll Keenon Ogden, PLLC
300 West Vine Street Suite 2100
Lexington, Kentucky 40507
(859) 231-3087

Other Parties

For Nathaniel Davis:
Hon. Michael R. Campbell Campbell, Rogers & Hill, PLLC
154 Flemingsburg Road
Morehead, Kentucky 40351
(606) 783-1012

For Kristie Plank:
Hon. Michael B. Fox
Fox Law Office
185 Tom T. Hall Boulevard
P. O. Box 1450
Olive Hill, Kentucky 41164-1450
(606) 286-5351

For Brian Mason:
Hon. Richard A. Hughes
P. O. Box 1139
Ashland, Kentucky 41105
(606) 325-3399

For Kim Russell:
Hon. Sebastian M. Joy
Joy Law Office
2710 Louisa Street
P. O. Box 411
Catlettsburg, Kentucky 41129
(606) 739-4569

For Melissa Thompson:
Hon. Andy Markelonis
2706 Louisa Street
P. O. Box 464
Catlettsburg, Kentucky
(606) 739-8616 41129

For Roberta Earley:
Hon. Jeremy L. Clark
2706 Louisa Street
P. O. Box 532
Catlettsburg, Kentucky (606) 739-6774 41129

- - - - - - - - - -

At 105-106:

Given that Ms. Davis and her deputies did discuss, and she, in fact, did indicate that she had instructed her deputies not to issue the marriage licenses, the Court has chosen to ask several court-appointed counsel who are members of the Federal Public Defender list here in Ashland to advise the deputies.

And I don't know who the deputies are. Up to this point, they've just been deputies of Kim Davis. So what I'm going to need to do is I have — and what we did, I just had the clerk call the six panel attorneys who would otherwise be appointed to represent individuals who may have -- may be subject to being in contempt themselves.

- - - - - - - - - -

At 110:

THE COURT: What -- what's your objection to?

MR. CHRISTMAN: That all of these deputies can only issue marriage licenses based upon the authority of Kim Davis, and Kim Davis has not given them that authority.

So the one deputy clerk has -- who has said she cannot issue licenses, it's not in her department, that applies to all of the deputy clerks because none of the deputy clerks can issue a marriage license bearing Kim Davis's name and on her authorization because she has not given that authorization.

THE COURT: Well, your objection's noted and overruled. I'm going to have them talk to these lawyers.

- - - - - - - - - -

At 113-117:

MR. CHRISTMAN: Well, their authorization under Kentucky statute comes from -­-

THE COURT: What statute?

MR. CHRISTMAN: -- the county clerk. The chapter for marriage laws is 402, and -­-

THE COURT: What chapter governs what the deputy clerks have to do?

MR. CHRISTMAN: Well, the statute that was in place before Obergefell, 402.100, and --

­THE COURT: What does that say the deputy clerks have to do?

MR. CHRISTMAN: Well, that -- that statute is the one that says the authorization statement is from the county clerk, which hasn't been given, and also -­-

THE COURT: Well, I'm holding that she's in violation of the Court's order by not authorizing it.

MR. CHRISTMAN: That -- that is what you held --

THE COURT: Correct.

MR. CHRISTMAN: -- but their authority comes from her, not from you.

THE COURT: Well, if they follow her authority and her authority's in contempt, why can't they be held in contempt as agents or employees of hers?

MR. CHRISTMAN: Because the only authority they can give is from her. This Court doesn't have authority to rewrite Kentucky marriage statutes.

THE COURT: Okay. So I can't -- so taking that to its logical conclusion, though, if someone -­an employer tells an employee to do something, and they -- just general agency principals, if they're an agent, why, under Rule 65(d)(2)(B), shouldn't they be bound by the Court's preliminary injunction?

MR. CHRISTMAN: Well, because here, the employer has told the employee, "You don't have my authority to issue it." You're --

­THE COURT: Are they able to do it without that? Let's say one of them --

­MR. CHRISTMAN: The analogy you're creating is you're inserting yourself as the employer and the authorizing agent and issuer of the marriage license.

THE COURT: Okay. If I told them they can't do it, but a court says they have to, they still -- ­you're saying they can't do it because she said they couldn't?

MR. CHRISTMAN: Because their authority -­- because at that point then, you're raising implications and issues with respect to what the Kentucky marriage law and the marriage licensing scheme, which again, has been completely overwritten, but those aspects that are being -- are trying to be applied, that authority comes exclusively from the county clerk. That's the -- that's the core issue here.

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Sharp, what's your response to this? They're arguing, in essence -and correct me if I'm wrong, because I want to make sure that we get it right -- because the clerk is not authorizing them to issue the licenses, and she testified this morning that she's very plainly, candidly, and I certainly appreciate that, that she told them that, "We are not issuing licenses pending appeal," I think is what she said.

MR. SHARP: We think the Court's absolutely correct as far as there is a valid court order preliminarily enjoining Ms. Davis in her official capacity from enforcing the "no marriage license" policy. To the extent her employees continue to adhere to enforcement of what this Court has enjoined, then we think 65(d)(2)(B) would in fact be implicated, and, you know, their ability to be held in contempt, even as a non-party, would be at play.

THE COURT: Okay. Let me ask you, Ms. Parsons, Mr. Watkins. What the Court does -- I recognize that what the Court does here potentially impacts the services, et cetera, provided by the clerk's office of Rowan County. Do you all take a position on the applicability of Rule 65(d)(2)(B) as it relates to the deputies?

MR. WATKINS: Judge, I -- I think they can issue them in her absence at that point because they're -- they're acting in concert as -- as the clerk. If -- if what they say is true, she's allowed to pick the religious beliefs of her deputy clerks, and everybody knows that's -- that's illegal.

THE COURT: Ms. Parsons? So -- so it's the position of the county attorney, sir, that they can issue the licenses in her absence?

MR. WATKINS: Absolutely.

THE COURT: All right. Ms. Parsons?

MS. PARSONS: I have the same position.

THE COURT: All right. All right.

- - - - - - - - -

At 121-122:

MR. HUGHES: Judge, if I may --

­THE COURT: Yes.

MR. HUGHES: -- save that trouble. Mr. Mason was the one that had discussed that with Ms. Davis, and he'd already indicated to her that he would issue those licenses, if he were allowed to do so.

He has indicated to me that he will comply with this Court's order to do that. But there are some practical problems. One, he doesn't even have a key to get in the offices. That can probably be overcome.

The second is the concern that was raised by honorable counsel here involving the state statutes and what authority they have if in fact Ms. Davis is still saying that she does not give them the authority.

So he -- that may be an issue that has to be addressed somewhere outside this Court. Perhaps this Court can answer his question, but he wants you to know that he intends to comply with this Court's ruling and issue the licenses.

- - - - - - - - - -

At 125-127:

MR. JOY: Your Honor, may I?

THE COURT: Yes, sir. Mr. Joy?

MR. JOY: Your Honor, I think you addressed an issue earlier, but I think you kind of glanced over that. I think I feel the need to -- to bring that back up. You addressed agency principal earlier.

THE COURT: Right.

MR. JOY: Under an agency principal, an agent is able to -- well, consent can be withdrawn at a certain time. And I think we have an issue here, I think, if you -- and you also spoke of a ping-pong match next week coming right back to you. I think if you -- you are entering a valid order -- you are --

­THE COURT: I -- I believe it to be a valid order.

MR. JOY: Right.

THE COURT: The Circuit may disagree. But the language the Circuit used in their stay order kind of tells me that they very well may not disagree.

MR. JOY: Correct. And in looking at all of that, I still don't think the statute under 402.100 necessarily gives, under agency theory, the permission for either Mr. Mason, or my client, Ms. Russell, to issue a valid marriage license. They could issue you a license. Now, is that valid? I think that's the million dollar question that needs to be answered at some point. I don't think that question's being asked of us here today, but I just wanted to bring that to the Court's attention.

THE COURT: So you believe that if he issued the license without her authority, it would be an invalid license?

MR. JOY: Absolutely.

THE COURT: All right.

Mr. Sharp -- usually the -- the only time that would come up perhaps would be if there was a divorce, we were never married, or some contention later.

Mr. Sharp, what's your position on the validity of the license, if it's issued without her authority? Do you take a position on that?

MR. SHARP: Well, I mean, we think that she cannot condition her authority on an unlawful act, and -- which is what she has -- what counsel seems to be alluding to the fact that if she is withholding or may withhold her permission to issue licenses based on illegal conduct as far as --

THE COURT: Well, I didn't find it to be illegal. I found that it was in violation of the Court's order.

MR. SHARP: Contemptuous conduct, correct. We don't think her authority extends that far, insofar as the office, apart from Kim Davis, exists to perform certain public functions. Kim Davis does not have to personally touch every marriage license. She employs people for the purpose of carrying out the duties of that office. To the extent Kim Davis has an erroneous instruction of her ability to block them from doing that, that, nonetheless, does not mean that they cannot perform those functions.

THE COURT: Well, the form says the clerk or deputy clerk. It does bear her name. And we're not going to plow that ground again. I previously found that really the clerk is performing a ministerial task verifying that the person is otherwise legally eligible to marry, and I'm not going to rehash that. The prior Court's order speaks for itself.

- - - - - - - - - -

At 138-140:

MR. FOX: So our discussion primarily for the half-hour that we met was about those convictions and the balancing, and ultimately a choice of lesser of evils. And I think but for some of the these other obligations and responsibilities that she has, her response to you today would be different. But these are real world issues. And there are two things that she wanted me to talk about. One, she wanted it to be clear that she had personal opinions and beliefs that are contrary to what is expected of her in her job. But she respects the Court, and she recognizes that she's under an obligation under Rule 65 that you discussed, that the orders that apply to Ms. Davis also would apply to her as an employee of Ms. Davis, and I believe she will tell you that she will comply with your order.

She was quite articulate in explaining to me and us discussing this issue of whether she has the authority to do that. And while I was back there -­- and fortunately, recent court orders allow us to bring these devices into the courthouse and 402.080, KRS 402.080 says that, "No marriage shall be solemnized without a license therefor. The license shall be issued by the clerk of the county." She believes, and I don't know that she's wrong, that the authority is with the clerk. And if the clerk hasn't given her authority, then she probably doesn't have authority.

However, our discussion wasn't about whether she has authority to issue a license. Our discussion was about whether she was obligated to follow your order to do so. And she recognizes that she does have that -- or that she is under your authority to issue a license.

THE COURT: She appreciates the authority of the Court?

MR. FOX: That's right. That's right. And whether -- as Mr. Joy and I've discussed -- whether that license, when issued by her or Mr. Mason, or anyone else, which is done without being given authority by Ms. Davis, whether that's valid or not, that's, I guess, going to be up to the plaintiffs to find out.

- - - - - - - - -

At 142-143:

THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. So setting aside for the moment the discussion of whether or not, without the authority of the clerk, you have the ability to issue those marriage licenses, I mean, would you or are you willing to comply with the Court's order requiring you to issue marriage licenses to the plaintiffs in this case or any other individuals who are legally eligible to marry in Kentucky?

MS. PLANK: Yes.

- - - - - - - - - -

At 144-152:

MR. HUGHES: Well, I say that, Judge, and just coincidentally, the clerk in Boyd County is retiring. In fact, she retired Monday. She resigned her office. The office is open and it can't be filled until a person that's going to be appointed has to take the test during the vacancy. You can't take it just in advance, believe it or not. You have to take it during -- so the office then does not have a clerk.

So what they've done is they simply bring a clerk from another county over. I mean, that's the position that they've always done when clerks resign or they're incapacitated. I don't know that applies to this case, but —

THE COURT: Well, and I don't know if they brought another clerk over from another county to do that here, I mean, whose authority would that be issued under?

MR. HUGHES: I mean, I don't know the answer. I just know that -- I just to want to make the point that Mr. Mason is in -- is in the same -- the same glass globe that everybody is that's going to be looking at it. He wants to comply with your orders.

Now, how they work this out in Rowan County or Franklin County, or wherever it has to go, will be their -- their issue. But -- but his consensus is that he's going to comply with your orders, unless someone stops him otherwise from doing it.

The second thing is, is it's long standing law in divorce cases, that that's what they're worried about, is that even if there's a mistake made somewhere along the line, if the parties thought they were getting married, they're considered married.

THE COURT: Like common law -- common law marriage.

MR. HUGHES: And I don't know about the other issues that may arise, but -- but at least for that purpose they are.

THE COURT: Well, most people when they get married don't expect to get divorced.

MR. CHRISTMAN: Your Honor, I'd -- I'd just like to make two remarks in response to the comments.

THE COURT: Sure, just two. Go ahead.

MR. CHRISTMAN: Thank you, Your Honor. The first would be this gentleman has referred to another county —

THE COURT: Mr. Hughes?

MR. CHRISTMAN: Mr. Hughes. I'm sorry. I didn't remember your name --

­THE COURT: Thank you, sir. I just wanted to make sure you were ref -­-

MR. CHRISTMAN: -- immediately. But the -­- he just suggested that other county clerks can come in and issue licenses.

THE COURT: I don't know if that's true or not. That would be a least alternative.

MR. HUGHES: I'm just saying that they do it real commonly when they transfer authority.

THE COURT: When authority's transferred?

MR. HUGHES: Yes. And I don't know -- you know, there's not that many clerks that probably this issue comes up on a regular basis or to challenge. I just know that it has been policy in the past, and I've been at this 40 years now, that whenever clerks leave their offices, for whatever, there is a gap there and that is -- that's commonly how it's taken care of so that the public offices continue.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. CHRISTMAN: And I would just raise that that's exactly one of the least restrictive alternatives that we've proposed. That if somebody wanted to get a license in Rowan County issued by the county clerk, they could get it from another county authorizing that.

THE COURT: Recognizing -- sure.

MR. CHRISTMAN: And there's been testimony being raised previously that 402.240 is a statute discussing absence of a county clerk. And there's been discussions now, you know, with Ms. Davis incapacitated and incarcerated, Kentucky marriage law provides, as we argued before, that her conscience provides the absence. And certainly in the Kentucky

THE COURT: Well, I found previously that the -- hold on -- I found previously that the conscience doesn't provide the absence for purposes of absence in the prior ruling.

MR. CHRISTMAN: But Kentucky marriage law provides the outlet for -- the answer for when the county clerk is absent and unable to authorize a license isn't to change Kentucky marriage law and make the deputy county clerk the authorizing agent. What that does is turn Judge Blevins into the authority under that section when the clerk is absent to --

­THE COURT: But it would still be issued under her authorization.

MR. CHRISTMAN: No.

THE COURT: The form would be under her name, though.

MR. CHRISTMAN: No. The statute provides that when the clerk is absent, that the marriage licenses be issued by the county judge/executive on a memorandum.

As Judge Blevins testified, he'd -- he had never done it before, but under the facts and circumstances here, Kim Davis is currently now rendered absent.

The authority -- there is no authority for the deputy clerks. Kentucky marriage law then says that authority vests into the county judge/executive to issue a marriage memorandum.

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Watkins?

MR. WATKINS: Judge, I think he just said an inaccurate statement. It -- it allows him. It says "may issue a license." There's no requirement there for a judge/executive to ever issue a license.

THE COURT: All right. Well, ultimately here, if I were to follow your argument, Mr. Christman, to its logical conclusion by -- it would enable her to be found in contempt, but then get what she wants, doesn't it strike you as a little disingenuous?

MR. CHRISTMAN: In terms of get what she wants?

THE COURT: Well, she wants the -- you argued initially that she wants the judge/executive to do it as a least restrictive alternative. He can issue it. I previously found that her religious objection doesn't allow her to be absent. You're saying now she's been locked up for violating my order. "She's now absent, actually absent, Judge. They can go to the county judge." That's what you argued before. It seems like I would be rewarding her for her contemptuous behavior by allowing the judge to do it. Clear those up for me.

MR. CHRISTMAN: No. The Court -- the Court would simply be -- the Court made its determination on what the word "absent" meant in the statute under the facts and circumstances that were presented before the Court then.

THE COURT: Correct.

MR. CHRISTMAN: The facts and circumstances are different now, so the Court makes an interpretation of what the word "absent" means. Is Kim Davis currently absent from issuing marriage licenses?

THE COURT: Okay. Okay. Then when is she then purged of her contempt?

MR. CHRISTMAN: Well, she's purged of her contempt when, at this point, we're left to file certain writs in order to have her released from the custody that she is in, and the merits of her claims are challenged and taken up on appeal, and she prevails on the merits of her appeal, which have not been addressed.

THE COURT: No, the merits have not. The likelihood of success has been addressed.

MR. CHRISTMAN: And that was likelihood of success in her capacity -- in her official capacity to which the appeal was taken, she has raised those individual claims against the governor and for any liability that she may have --

THE COURT: Those are not on appeal right now.

MR. CHRISTMAN: -- and they have not been taken up, which is again, further, why our due process concerns as to the judgments and determinations that are being taken here. She's now been sent into confinement -- as Your Honor said, the purpose of contempt is to coerce the contemnor into compliance.

THE COURT: Correct.

MR. CHRISTMAN: Now, in addition and well beyond that, the Court is now deciding, after putting Kim Davis in imprisonment for civil contempt of an order, the Court is now stepping in, short of the merits being fully decided, and saying, "I'm going to now order others without the authority, without the merits of her appeal being taken up to do an act that she cannot do." It is literally the analogous situation. And physically -- we've now moved to the point where if she's in contempt, as you've found, and now a marriage license that she says she gives no authority to and is challenging on the merits of appeal, you force that license to go out on her authority and on her name, you have forced the nurse to

THE COURT: Forced the who?

MR. CHRISTMAN: -- perform the abortion. You have forced -­-

THE COURT: Why do we always use that analogy? There's so many others to use.

MR. CHRISTMAN: Because those are the analogies in which religious conscience claims have been raised in cases, Your Honor.

- - - - - - - - - -

At page 152-154:

MR. CHRISTMAN: -- for a conscience claim that you didn't accept, that conscience claim, the merits of which are being challenged on appeal and have not been finally decided by a court of final appeal.

And so you told her that she has an opportunity to purge her contempt if she -- if she authorizes and issues the license. So her ability to purge the contempt, her -- again, the purpose of contempt is to coerce the contemnor into compliance. You've told her what that is.

If it -- if the hearing is now going to turn into "let's find somebody to issue the license with Kim Davis's name on it and her authority," then what the Court is now doing is turning Kim Davis's sanction into a criminal punishment for what --

­THE COURT: No. I'm not doing that.

MR. CHRISTMAN: -- she's done. You're taking the extra step of forcing the conscientious objector to actually have the act that they object to performed before the merits of that have been decided.

If the Judge -- if this Court decides that it's going to find somebody else to issue a license, then --

­THE COURT: Well, I'm not finding anyone. I'm just asking if they're willing to comply with the order.

MR. CHRISTMAN: Then the authority for that marriage license is not Kim Davis. It's -­-

THE COURT: Well, it very well may not be her.

MR. CHRISTMAN: -- it's this Court. And our position would be -- and -­-

THE COURT: Well, it's not this Court; it's the Rowan County Clerk's office. But go ahead.

MR. CHRISTMAN: No, because Rowan County Clerk's office authority is Kim -- is Kim Davis, and Kim Davis is not giving that authority.

So if marriage licenses are issued, those marriage licenses -- if Judge Blevins is not willing to exercise the opportunity he now has to issue the marriage licenses that he said he would issue, then this Court becomes the authorizing and issuing agent. And for any of those marriage licenses, the authorization statement should come from this Court, and the authorization agent should be United States District Court Judge David Bunning -­-

THE COURT: All right. Thank you.

MR. CHRISTMAN: -- not Kim Davis.

- - - - - - - - - -

At 157-158:

THE COURT: Okay. Now, Ms. Earley, I know your individual situation is a little bit different in that earlier you told me, or someone represented that you are -- you're the chief deputy, though?

MS. EARLEY: I am the chief deputy, yes.

THE COURT: Okay. But you're not really a -­is it true that you're not like one of the front-line folks?

MS. EARLEY: I don't work on the front line. I work back in the legal department.

- - - - - - - - - -

At 161-163:

MS. EARLEY: Well, it seems like every step we take, we've got questions, and -- like who's in authority, you know, whose name goes on that. And that's -- things like that, I think, need to be worked out, and definitely, I'm not an attorney.

THE COURT: Well, we have lots of attorneys here have been making their arguments here this afternoon and this morning.

MS. EARLEY: And I guess one of the questions was, is Kim still the one that's going to be telling us what to do? Do we go by her authority or ...

THE COURT: Well, the authority -- the reason for this hearing is because Ms. Davis was not complying with the order of the Court. There's a lot of discussion -­MS.

EARLEY: Uh-huh.

THE COURT: -- but at its very core, the hearing is about compliance with the Court's orders.

MS. EARLEY: I understand that.

THE COURT: And whether or not a marriage license issued tomorrow by any one of the agents of Ms. Davis is a valid license under the Kentucky statute.

These plaintiffs are going to have to decide whether or not they want to perhaps have a license issued, which may not be valid under Kentucky law, but they're willing to take that chance.

Or perhaps they're not going to take that chance and hope that maybe in some future date the statute is amended or there's some activity by the elected officials to change it. That's not -- I'm trying to gain compliance with the order, and that's -- so you do -- have raised some interesting questions, as the other attorneys have as well.

But what I'm getting at is, if I have individuals who've indicated they're willing to issue the licenses, and I order that to occur, it will be on the form that was used. That's -- if there's a move afoot to amend that, great. I think that would enable all parties to come away with something.

Many times in litigation certain parties win and certain parties lose. Oftentimes, though, you have cases where everybody gets something.

I've struggled in this case to find middle ground on anything because both sides have been so insistent on digging their heels in at every turn, which is certainly the litigant's right to do. And it's my job to try to keep the decorum even, try to keep everybody on the same page. So I guess getting back to my initial question, do you wish additional time to answer that question, or are you willing to issue those licenses?

MS. EARLEY: Well, I'm not set up to issue them, but I won't go against your order.

- - - - - - - - - -

At 163-164:

THE COURT: All right. Ms. Russell, you've had a chance to talk to your lawyer now about the consequences of not complying with the order, correct?

MS. RUSSELL: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Joy.

MR. JOY: Your Honor, in speaking with her -­-

THE COURT: If you'd speak close to the microphone. The air's on. Thank you.

MR. JOY: Your Honor, in speaking with her, I think the fundamental issue that she had was that she was rehired by Ms. Davis in March of this year. She's only worked there for a few months at this point.

On or about June 30th, after after the decision by the Supreme Court came out, Ms. Davis revoked her authority to issue any marriage licenses to the entire office. I think that's what led to this hearing.

And as I previously stated, that's the same issue she has right now, is she does not believe she has authority to go forward and issue, from Ms. Davis, that is, no authority to issue a marriage license.

But I believe her position will be that in regards to the Court's order, she will issue a marriage license, she will comply with that going forward.

- - - - - - - - - -

At 166-167:

THE COURT: All right. Thank you, unless one of the parties think it's necessary.

Having heard from neither of the parties then.

Okay. Here's what we're going to do. Now, there has been an issue raised about the validity of a marriage license issued that does not have the authorization of Ms. Davis under Rule -- I'm sorry -- KRS 402.

Whether or not a license issued by the Rowan County Clerk's office is valid or not, I mean, that's -- that's kind of something that Mr. Sharp and your clients, if they believe it to be valid -- I'm not saying it is or it isn't. I haven't looked into that point. I'm trying to get compliance with my order.

The impact of compliance with the order is left for you. I mean, if you think that's a legitimate issue, then you can advise your clients accordingly, but that's not really something that I think precludes the Court from gaining compliance with the Court's order.

- - - - - - - - - -

At 175:

THE COURT: All right. We had given Mr. Christman and Mr. Gannam additional time that they've asked, approximately ten minutes.

You all wanted to be heard without Ms. Davis being brought into the courtroom; is that right?

MR. GANNAM: Yes, Your Honor. You offered to bring Ms. Davis back in at -- based on our request to consider purgation of the contempt based on the representations of the deputy clerks.

THE COURT: Correct.

MR. GANNAM: At this point, we're prepared to, rather than bring Ms. Davis in, simply communicate to the Court that she does not grant her authority for any licenses to be issued under her authority or by her name. And she -- she also does not make any representations as to whether she would allow any employee of her office to issue those licenses, even without her authorization.

- - - - - - - - - -

nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-14   18:04:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: nolu chan, CZ82, Vicomte13, Too Conservative, redleghunter, A K A Stone, Pinguinite, Liberator, buckeroo, GrandIsland (#62)

The issuing deputy has fully complied with Judge Bunning's order by issuing a purported license which states that it is issued pursuant to a federal court order by the city of Morehead, Kentucky.

At battle of jurisdiction? I am betting the Fed will win and that when all is said and done the licenses issued by the Deputies are legal.

SOSO  posted on  2015-09-14   18:19:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: SOSO, CZ82, Vicomte13, Too Conservative, redleghunter, A K A Stone, Pinguinite, Liberator, buckeroo, GrandIsland (#63)

At battle of jurisdiction? I am betting the Fed will win and that when all is said and done the licenses issued by the Deputies are legal.

There is no battle of jurisdiction. The State has jurisdiction over who can issue marriage licenses and what they must contain. In interpreting the State statute, the highest court of the State has the final say. If state law says it must bear the name of the County Clerk, there is no Federal authority to overrule that. If state law says that licenses in Rowan County must be issued under the authority of the Rowan County Clerk, it is not up to the Federal government to authorize the city of Morehead to authorize licenses.

Pursuant to the conscience of Kim Davis, the license as it is being issued, does not contain the name of Kim Davis or purport that it is being issued in the name of the Rowan County Clerk.

Mr. VANCE for Governor Beshear. Mr. CHRISTMAN for Kim Davis.

Davis Hearing of 3 Sep 2015 at 85-86:

MR. CHRISTMAN: -- and in this case, all of those alternatives being made available and presented with a party in this case, including Governor Beshear and Commissioner Onkst who are ready, equipped, and available to make these alternatives available because it's a license -- it's a Kentucky marriage license that's requiring Kim Davis personally to authorize that license and affix her name on it.

The governor can change that form, make it a state form with no personal authority, no Kim Davis name on it, available in a Rowan County Clerk's office, and this case would be over, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. Is Governor Beshear -- can he do this by executive order?

MR. VANCE: Your Honor, there is no executive order. In fact, Governor Beshear isn't going to do anything.

THE COURT: But is he -- does he have the authority to do that by executive order versus by calling a special session? And I have some familiarity with the requirements of a special session, but I'm just curious. By executive order, I know the president can issue executive orders for a variety of reasons. I'm assuming that the executive of the state would be able to do that on certain things as well. Is this something where he can just change the form by executive order?

MR. VANCE: No, Your Honor, because the requirements or the composition of marriage license is dictated by statute, and the governor cannot change the statute.

The Governor's attorney states that the Governor lacks the authority to make any change to the form.

At 96:

THE COURT: … The defendant argues that it's not a situation to where contempt is warranted because less intrusive alternatives are available.

I recognize, and I mentioned this when we first came out earlier this morning, that the legislative and executive branches do have the ability to make changes. And those changes may be beneficial to everyone. Hopefully, changes are made. But it's not this Court's job to make those changes. I don't write law.

Judge Bunning says the legislative and executive branches do have the ability to make changes.

Page 1 of Judge Bunning ORDER of 8 Sep 2015

1 While the Status Report reflects that Plaintiff's marriage licenses have been altered so thai "Rowan County" rather than "Kim Davis" appears on the line reserved for the name of the county clerk, Plaintiffs have not alleged that the alterations affect the validity of the licenses. Nor do the alterations impact the Court's finding that the deputy clerks have complied with the Court's Order.

The latest license states it is issued pursuant to a federal court order by the city of Morehead, Kentucky. I am wondering what sort of fun will ensue when the couple gets married and the marriage documentation is filed. Guess who the documents get submitted to?

It is beyond the authority of the governor to make any change because it is controlled and specified by state statute, but a deputy clerk can wing it and the Court explains that the plaintiffs have not alleged that the alterations affect the validity of the licenses. This appears to be a new legal standard. The denial by the attorney for the governor of authority is overruled by plaintiffs who do not complain about what the court has wrought.

When Kentucky feels like getting around to it, it will modify the statute solving the problem, Kim Davis will be acommodated, and licenses will be issued pursuant to law once again. Next year.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-15   0:59:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: nolu chan, CZ82, Vicomte13, Too Conservative, redleghunter, A K A Stone, Pinguinite, Liberator, buckeroo, GrandIsland (#65)

In interpreting the State statute, the highest court of the State has the final say. If state law says it must bear the name of the County Clerk, there is no Federal authority to overrule that.

In the mean time a Fed judge did exactly say who can issue marriage licenses in that County in KY and the Governor and State AG are on record saying that the licenses are valid. Go figure. Sounds like the Fed won that jurisdictional battle to me.

SOSO  posted on  2015-09-15   11:48:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: SOSO, CZ82, Vicomte13, Too Conservative, redleghunter, A K A Stone, Pinguinite, Liberator, buckeroo, GrandIsland (#74)

Sounds like the Fed won that jurisdictional battle to me.

It is not a jurisdictional battle. All that has happened in a preliminary injunction has been issued barring Kim Davis from enforcing her "no marriage licenses" policy, and Kim Davis was held in civil contempt for her defiance of the judge's order.

An actual case has not been heard yet, much less decided on the merits.

In the mean time a Fed judge did exactly say who can issue marriage licenses in that County in KY and the Governor and State AG are on record saying that the licenses are valid. Go figure.

As for the Governor and AG stating that the bastardized forms are legal, that is as impressive as Obama and Eric Holder saying the immigration policy of non-enforcement is legal. When in court, the attorney for the governor sang a very different tune.

At 85-86:

THE COURT:... Is Governor Beshear -- can he do this by executive order?

MR. VANCE: No, Your Honor, because the requirements or the composition of marriage license is dictated by statute, and the governor cannot change the statute.

The Governor publicly stated, and his attorney stated to the Court, that he lacked the authority to change the information the statute requires to be on the form. And the Speaker of the House said the Governor lacked the authority.

The court getting two twits to say the form, as changed by a deputy clerk, is valid is not very persuasive, as the ACLU has come to realize.

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/ky-legislature/2015/07/07/gop-asks-beshear-aid-clerks-gay-marriage/29839363/

"If there are any minor changes needed to clarify the language of statutes, any such changes can be made in the 2016 legislative session in January," he [Governor Beshear] said.

The Republican leadership said it wants Beshear to "issue a temporary solution" until the General Assembly can "craft a more comprehensive solution in January."

"The Senate has been exploring options to address the situation that our countyclerks and religious institutions find themselves in due to the actions of the Supreme Court," the statement said. "Religious liberties are an important part of the basis of our Republic and all statutory options available should be considered."

But [House Speaker Greg] Stumbo said that changes can only be made through legislation, not by executive order of the governor.

There was no Order to the deputies.

MR. CHRISTMAN: ... If the Judge -- if this Court decides that it's going to find somebody else to issue a license, then --

­THE COURT: Well, I'm not finding anyone. I'm just asking if they're willing to comply with the order.

MR. CHRISTMAN: Then the authority for that marriage license is not Kim Davis. It's -­-

THE COURT: Well, it very well may not be her.

MR. CHRISTMAN: -- it's this Court. And our position would be -- and -­-

THE COURT: Well, it's not this Court; it's the Rowan County Clerk's office. But go ahead.

MR. CHRISTMAN: No, because Rowan County Clerk's office authority is Kim -- is Kim Davis, and Kim Davis is not giving that authority.

So if marriage licenses are issued, those marriage licenses -- if Judge Blevins is not willing to exercise the opportunity he now has to issue the marriage licenses that he said he would issue, then this Court becomes the authorizing and issuing agent. And for any of those marriage licenses, the authorization statement should come from this Court, and the authorization agent should be United States District Court Judge David Bunning -­-

THE COURT: All right. Thank you.

MR. CHRISTMAN: -- not Kim Davis.

Why, good ol' Judge Bunning was only asking if the deputies were willing to to comply with the order to KIM DAVIS and disregard her no licenses policy. If you know of an Order issued to the deputies, please cite and quote it.

There is the little issue of the deputy not having authority to issue a valid license without the authorization of the elected Clerk, leading to this question:

At 142:

THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. So setting aside for the moment the discussion of whether or not, without the authority of the clerk, you have the ability to issue those marriage licenses, I mean, would you or are you willing to comply with the Court's order requiring you to issue marriage licenses to the plaintiffs in this case or any other individuals who are legally eligible to marry in Kentucky?

So, the deputy, believing she has no authority to legally issue a license, is asked if she would issue one anyway.

As Mr. Christman pointed out, the authorization should statement should not come from Kim Davis or the Rowan County Clerk's office.

At 166:

Okay. Here's what we're going to do. Now, there has been an issue raised about the validity of a marriage license issued that does not have the authorization of Ms. Davis under Rule -- I'm sorry -- KRS 402.

Whether or not a license issued by the Rowan County Clerk's office is valid or not, I mean, that's -- that's kind of something that Mr. Sharp and your clients, if they believe it to be valid -- I'm not saying it is or it isn't. I haven't looked into that point. I'm trying to get compliance with my order.

The validity of altered licenses was denied by several court appointed attorneys for the deputies as well as the attorney for Ms. Davis.

It does not have the authorization of Ms. Davis, and the Judge is not saying it is valid. He has not looked into that point, if he is to be believed. As long as they churn out a piece of paper, he is happy.

And now the ACLU is now questioning the validity of the licenses.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-15   15:49:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: nolu chan (#85) (Edited)

It does not have the authorization of Ms. Davis, and the Judge is not saying it is valid. He has not looked into that point, if he is to be believed. As long as they churn out a piece of paper, he is happy.

Good. So here is what I see.

The Federal Judge is focused on the question: will my order be complied with, by specific individuals: yes or no.

Davis' lawyer wants to go to the merits of the issuance of the licenses, but the judge refuses to open that field of discussion. He is focusing directly and exclusively on the equitable power: WILL MY ORDER BE OBEYED?

And the answer to that is: YES.

So, the licenses are being issued, and the immediate harm being done by resistance to the issuing of licenses is abated. Now the court, or an appellate court, will turn to the matter of the legality of the licenses.

And the reasoning will go like I wrote at length. There are KY statutes regarding marriage licensing and the authority to issue them. These statutes and regulations pre-dated the gay marriage controversy, and were general application laws without an invidious purpose, when passed.

However, now that marriage equality has been determined by the Supreme Court to be Constitutional Law, these old general applicability statutes are being wielded in a novel - and invidious - way to frustrate the constitutional rights to marriage of gay citizens of this part of Kentucky.

Although putatively aimed at ALL seeking marriage licensing, the cause that has given rise to the precipitous move to cease issuing marriage licenses is, in fact, the unwillingness of public officials to respect the rights of gays to marry, and to frustrate the exercise of constitutional rights. The effect of the clerk's stand, if she were to prevail, is to prevent anybody in her county from exercising their constitutional right to marry.

On the one hand, procedural rules of the state of Kentucky establish the normal course for the issuance of marriage licenses, and the District Court has merely ordered the county clerk to perform her duty to issue these licenses so that people may exercise their constitutional rights to marry. The clerk has, herself, chosen to cease issuing licenses to all - depriving the county at large of the right to marry - in order to invidiously discriminate against a small class of people who will also seek licensing.

On the other hand, the Constitution of the United States guarantees the right to marriage, and the right to marriage equality.

In living memory in America state and local authorities of many states attempted to use local statutes, ordinances, regulations, and even state constitutions, in order to block the free exercise of constitutional rights by some American citizens. The Supreme Court uniformly struck down all such efforts: the US Constitution is the Supreme Law of the land, and NO local law, regulation, procedure, or state constitution can act as a bar to the full and unfettered exercise of constitutional rights in every jurisdiction of the United States.

Nor are individuals seeking to exercise their constitutional rights obliged to petition state authorities to exercise those rights, or to move politically to strike down unconstitutional laws through the legislative process. The Supreme Court's decision, by finding a constitutional right, nullifies and invalidates the ENTIRE APPARATUS of federal, state or local law, ordinance or procedure that opposes the free exercise of the Constitutional rights.

Citizens are not obliged to wait on the vicissitudes of state and local politics in order to exercise their rights under the US Constitution. Rather, the rights having been determined, specified and upheld by the Supreme Court, ALL opposing law to the free exercise of those rights is nullified at one stroke, and those rights may be uniformly enjoyed by American citizens in every state, county and town of America. When state or local officials assert a law that has been superseded by the Constitution to deny an individual of his constitutional rights, those officials act without legal justification.

Kentucky has laws and statutes and procedures in place for the issuance of marriage license. To the extent that those laws, statutes and procedures are used invidiously by any official of the Kentucky to deprive citizens of their right to marry, including the right of two individuals of the same sex to marry, these denials under color of law are in fact violations of the constitutional rights of the individuals, and the full equitable power of the federal (and state, and local) courts is available to strike down all putatively legal impediments that are raised to bar the exercise of the Constitutional rights.

The District Court has the full equitable power, under the Constitution, to design a remedy suitable to address and remove the local legal impediment, having been raised, to the exercise of the constitutional right to marry in Davis' district.

Kentucky law is irrelevant: the entire apparatus was nullified when Davis sought to deny people their constitutional right to marry. The invidious use of procedure to bar citizens exercise of their rights is an old game in the South. And Federal supremacy to erase all such efforts is the old antidote to it.

As we shall all soon see.

Davis does not have a snowball's chance in hell of prevailing, and there will be no delay. And people in Kentucky will not have to wait on a local clerk, or a local electorate, or a state legislature, or the people of Kentucky, to vote, or do anything, in order to exercise their rights now. The constitutional right is clear, the federal constitution is supreme. Whatever Kentucky law that would act as an impediment to the full and immediate exercise of those rights has ceased to exist in fact, even if it de jure remains on the books. To the extent that local officials and lawyers chose to assert de jure law, the power of federal equity to erase state law will be clearly demonstrated once more.

Bet on it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-15   17:09:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Vicomte13 (#88)

You have mentioned several times in your post that marriage is a "Constitutional Right". It may be viewed as nit-picking but I don't think it is, to point out that it's not a Constitutional Right. There are several different types of rights. I would consider legal marriage a "statutory right" meaning it's a right founded in statutory law. After all, the issue with the Davis case involves marriage "licenses". By definition, a license is permission to do something that would otherwise be illegal to do -- an action requiring the privileged blessing of a proper authority to exercise. Ergo it is a privilege to possess any license of any sort, not a right. This means it's subject to change or even revocation through legislative action.

While very unlikely, if KY were to modify its law to eliminate marriage licenses in the state, the fed judges order would be null and void.

The USSC ruled via the 14th amendment's equal protection clause that 2 people of the same gender are entitled to the same rights as couples of different genders, and any elimination of marriage licenses in any state would not violate that ruling.

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-09-15   19:24:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: Pinguinite (#90) (Edited)

You have mentioned several times in your post that marriage is a "Constitutional Right". It may be viewed as nit-picking but I don't think it is, to point out that it's not a Constitutional Right.

Nitpick if you need to: marriage is a Constitutional right, because the Supreme Court has said so. And it said so in the last great challenge to marriage: the racist "anti-miscegenation" statutes that many states of the Old Confederacy had barring interracial marriage.

In the 1967 case Loving v. Virginia, the Chief Justice of the United States, in the majority opinion, wrote::" The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men ...

To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law."

Marriage is a constitutional right.

And now, gay "marriage" is marriage in all 50 states and the overseas territories, and any state or local constitution, statute, ordinance, regulation, procedure, or court decision that says otherwise is null and void, through the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution.

Gay marriage is a Constitutional right, as is interracial marriage (and every other sort of two person marriage), and there is no ability of the states to slow down the implementation of that right by any state procedure or law: the Constitution trumps and nullifies, immediately, anything lesser that stands in its way.

The Kentucky Constitution, statutes and regulations that stand in the way will go unenforced until the Kentucky legislature fixes the discrepancy. Until then, Kentucky law will be broken and ignored, because Federal law has superseded it. And any official who stands in the way of the Constitutional right of gays to be married will be jailed for contempt if they follow Davis' path.

The Federal government cannot be fought on this battlefield. They own it, and they write all the rules, and they decide the cases. Match, set, point.

There are battles that can be fought. And then there's Appomattox. Once you're at Appomatox Courthouse, there is no prospect of victory, and you get off that battlefield for good.

Really, this ought to be a wake up call to Christians to reform everything about their lives to bring them in conformity with the demands of God. Only then can the Christians march as an army again. As it stands, they are divided and lost, and the country has slipped out of their grasp.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-15   21:43:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Vicomte13 (#93)

In the 1967 case Loving v. Virginia, the Chief Justice of the United States, in the majority opinion, wrote::" The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men ...

Note this quote is not saying it's a "Constitutional Right", but a "personal right".

In order to be a Constitutional Right, it needs to be expressed in the Constitution, and it's not.

What is expressed in the 14th is an equal protections under the law, which is a Constitutional Right, and was the basis of the gay marriage ruling.

Marriage has been around since the dawn of history. Marriage licenses, not nearly as long. States could retitle "Marriage License" to something like "Civil Union License" or perhaps "certificate" would be a more fitting descriptor, if there's no actual permission involved in it's issuance. While it may be only a word change, it may be a pleasing solution to religious conservative states that feel "marriage" is not an appropriate term to apply to a gay union, leaving application of the term to churches, which is actually where it belongs. All the state needs to be concerned with is the legalities of inheritance, powers of attorney and such, which a "Civil Union Certificate" would be fine in servicing.

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-09-16   0:56:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: Pinguinite (#97) (Edited)

In order to be a Constitutional Right, it needs to be expressed in the Constitution, and it's not.

Tell it to the Supreme Court.

"Sola Scriptura" constitutional theory is very interesting as a debating point. It's not the law of the land, it never has been the law of the land, and it never will be the law of this land.

The Supreme Court in Loving ruled that states cannot block interracial couples from marrying because marriage is a right.

The Supreme Court has done the same thing in the gay marriage case.

And in Rowan County, KY, a the federal courts have compelled a clerk to issue marriage licenses (and both the circuit court and the Supreme Court have denied appeals).

Marriage is obviously a constitutional right. Playing games with language is fun in moot court. In real court, you burn up money and pay sanctions getting slapped down playing games like that.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-16   8:49:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: Vicomte13 (#100) (Edited)

I hesitate to spend more time on a somewhat trivial discussion, but have less to do today, and also found interesting your definitive comment that:

The Supreme Court in Loving ruled that states cannot block interracial couples from marrying because marriage is a right.

So I looked it up and wikipedia has these comments, along with an excerpt from the actual USSC opinion in the case (emphasis added):

Chief Justice Earl Warren's opinion for the unanimous court held that:

Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State.

(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia)

So it seems Warren's comment above affirms my position that marriage is NOT a Constitutional Right, that the Loving case, as with the recent case involving gay marriage, was based not on marriage as a "Constitutional Right" but based instead on the 14th Amendment's requirement of laws applying equally to all.

That marriage is a natural right and/or a basic civil right is something I agree with. But it's just not a "Constitutional Right".

I would expect that if marriage was indeed a "Constitutional Right" found in the US Constitution, that marriage licenses would be fall within the responsibilities of the US government. (Then again, if it were a "Constitutional Right" per se then a "license" to do it would not be constitutional either, just as a "Free Speech License" would not be constitutional, but I digress).

I contend you've not offered any logical or factual basis to support your position, but if you are firmly attached to it, that's fine by me.

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-09-16   14:29:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: Pinguinite (#104) (Edited)

I contend you've not offered any logical or factual basis to support your position, but if you are firmly attached to it, that's fine by me.

Angels dancing on the head of a pin.

When the Supreme Court says, in 15 separate opinions spanning nearly 150 years, that marriage is a fundamental right protected by the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, that is a constitutional right. That's what a constitutional right IS, that's what it looks like on paper.

You have it in your mind that the "Constitution" is limited to exclusively what is written on the paper.

If I were a betting man, I would bet that you're a Protestant Christian in the Calvinist tradition (Baptist, Presbyterian, Congregationalist, et al), and a firm believer in Sola Scriptura, rejecting all extra-Biblical tradition as having no authority whatever.

You are applying your religious tradition - (which is the minoritarian view in Christianity - 80% of Christians are Catholics and Orthodox, and they believe that the written word is part of the tradition of the Church, and that the rest of the tradition, the oral tradition, is of equal authority - that it is all inspired by God; Jews also are traditionalists in this sense - TaNaKh PLUS Talmud, not just Torah) - to American law.

In American law, what you espouse is a form of strict constructionism, whereby "constitutional" means exclusively what is written on the four corners of the Constitution, as amended. This is a minority view. The majority view is that "constitutional" means the written Constitution itself, as amended, and all authoritative decisions of the federal courts (and specifically the Supreme Court) that delineate what the written words mean, and that apply that meaning to factual situations.

Using religious terms, the four-corners strict constitutional constructionist is a strict Sola Scripturalist. The constitutional traditionalist is a Catholic (or a Jew).

6 of the Supreme Court Justices are Catholics. 3 are Jews.

I am firmly attached to the business of predicting what the courts will DO, based on what they already HAVE done, so many times. By understanding how the courts think, and knowing what they have done and probably will do, I can safely advise clients as to the course they should take to stay out of trouble. And I know that the courts think that marriage is a constitutional right.

You are firmly attached to a minoritarian view that strictly limits what the Constitution is and means. This view probably comes out of your religious tradition, and parallels it, simply substituting "Constitution" in the civic sense for "Holy Bible" in the religious sense. It's fine by me that you believe that, and are firmly attached to it.

But what that means in the real world is that in a discussion of what will happen, I will almost always be right about what the courts are going to do, and can therefore plan to deal with that emerging reality, while you will almost always be wrong about what the courts are going to do, because they simply do not think or behave the way you believe they ought to.

They do not share your civic or sacred religion, and they don't look at written documents the way you do. And they never will.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-16   14:57:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 105.

#107. To: Vicomte13 (#105)

Well, this is now getting a bit amusing.

It seems we do agree that the basis for the marriage equality rulings regarding gender and race is the 14th Amendment, but that we differ on the idea that just because the USSC rules that some law needs to apply equally to all, that such a law is required to exist. If KY were to pass legislation getting out of the marriage license business entirely, would you claim the USSC ruling would find their doing so a violation of the "Constitution Right of marriage", in spite of the fact that the 14th Amendment would not apply, as no discrimination would be involved?

If things are as you say, it seems KY would be subject to federal injunction if they dared to pass such legislation, and be mandated by federal courts to have some marriage laws on the books -- Something I can't possibly fathom.

As for my apparent error in concluding that if something does not appear in the Constitution or its Amendments, that it's not there, it seems I am also in error in assuming that citations of key parts of USSC decisions also do not mean what they plainly say, as evidenced with the Loving case cited above, that the ruling in favor of Loving is based on 14th Amendment equality, with no evidence that Warren ever referred to marriage as a "Constitutional Right".

I would say that if I am wrong for so naively drawing conclusions based on what is plainly written, then it means the law is well beyond the ability of the common person to understand, and any such legal environment so far removed from the understanding of the common person is evidence that the legal system that has truly run amuck and no longer serves the people it is supposed to be serving.

But you are apparently a lawyer, and I suppose lawyers are naturally trained to never concede ground. No lawyer would be in business long otherwise. (I mean that as an honest candid observation, not an insult -- in must come with the territory, yes?)

Reminds me of a joke....

"When in court, if the law is in your favor, you pound on the law. If the facts are in your favor, you pound on the facts. If neither the law nor the facts are in your favor, you pound on the table".

As for my religion, if you were a betting man, you would have lost. I actually can't say I'm a Christian at all. I subscribe to the model that actually includes reincarnation as one of many elements unorthodox to most major faiths, believe it or not. All those elements put together create a model of existence that makes complete logical sense in theological, philosophical and scientific schools of thought, and also fits my personal observations in life far better than anything else I've ever found does. It does, however, require one be open minded enough to consider and I've found such people *extremely* rare. Even detractors don't care to truly hear me out or show any defects in my position. Too many of us are set in our beliefs instilled by parents or whomever, whatever. That's only natural though, as it's impossible for anyone to be truly open minded about all things at all times. So that's fine.

Christianity is correct on many things, but not all. Biblical reverency is, I believe, based on the antiquity of the writings, but beyond that, only faith. The same can be said for other major faiths

I can believe that you are successful in your occupation much of the time. If you serve people with good causes, then more power to you. Best....

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-09-16 16:44:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 105.

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