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The Establishments war on Donald Trump
See other The Establishments war on Donald Trump Articles

Title: National Review’s Jonah Goldberg: ‘Count Me Out’ of Any Conservative Movement with Donald Trump
Source: Brietbart
URL Source: http://www.breitbart.com/big-journa ... ve-movement-with-donald-trump/
Published: Sep 8, 2015
Author: Ben Shapiro
Post Date: 2015-09-08 14:48:17 by Rufus T Firefly
Keywords: None
Views: 12134
Comments: 46

On Saturday, National Review senior editor Jonah Goldberg penned a controversial column in which he rejected Donald Trump and his followers from the conservative movement. “Well, if this is the conservative movement now, I guess you’re going to have to count me out,” Goldberg writes.

Goldberg goes on to suggest that the embrace of Trump perverts conservatism itself, broadening the definition of the movement in order to include Trump.

Goldberg, whom I consider a friend and a brilliant commentator, is right to label Trump insufficiently conservative. I have specifically argued that Trump ought not be the nominee thanks to his insufficient conservatism—so has Michelle Malkin, so have numerous other conservative commentators.

But here is the sad truth: Many of the same people appalled by Trump made Trump’s candidacy possible.

Trump is a product of a conservatism-less Republicanism, prepared for and championed by the intellectual elites who told us to ignore Mitt Romney’s creation of Romneycare and Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) 43% ’s campaign finance reform, who told conservatives to shut up and get in line, who explained that conservatives had to throw over Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) 96% and his government shutdowns in favor of Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY) 52% and his pathological inability to take a hard stand against President Obama using the tools at his disposal.

Over at National Review, even as Goldberg condemns Trump for his non-conservatism, another columnist simultaneously urges a ticket with Governor “God Told Me To Use Obamacare Money To Expand Medicaid” John Kasich (R-OH) and Sen. Marco “Immigration Gang of Eight” Rubio (R-FL). Goldberg himself championed Romney’s candidacy because he wasn’t a conservative, writing back in 2012:

Even if Romney is a Potemkin conservative (a claim I think has merit but is also exaggerated), there is an instrumental case to be made for him: It is better to have a president who owes you than to have one who claims to own you. A President Romney would be on a very short leash.

Why wouldn’t the same logic apply to Trump?

And while Goldberg today raps Trump on the knuckles for his support of socialized medicine, going so far as to label opposition to such policy a “core tenet of American conservatism from Day One,” Goldberg used Romneycare as a point in favor of Romney in 2012: “He is a man of duty and purpose. He was told to ‘fix’ health care in ways Massachusetts would like… He did it all. The man does his assignments.”

Goldberg today says that Trump doesn’t deserve to be a part of the conservative movement, and his followers have excised themselves from the conservative community. But in 2012, he warned that anyone saying the same of Mitt Romney threatened the possibility of conservative victory. In 2012, Goldberg explicitly opposed purges and purity tests:

That’s certainly reason enough to be mad at the establishment. But replacing the current leadership with even more ardent, passionate and uncompromising conservatives is far from a guaranteed formula for making the Republican Party more popular or powerful. To do that, the GOP needs to persuade voters to become a little more conservative, not to hector already-conservative politicians to become even more pure as they go snipe-hunting for the Rockefeller Republicans.

What requirements did Mitt Romney, and John Kasich, and John McCain, and Mitch McConnell fulfill that Trump does not? Goldberg is right that Trump has “no ideological guardrails whatsoever” when it comes to taxes and “knows less than most halfway-decent DC interns about foreign policy.” Goldberg could have added that Trump has made an enormous amount of money utilizing eminent domain, that he supports affirmative action, and that he opposes free trade, among other pernicious positions. There is a reason that this weekend full-fledged economic idiot Paul Krugman endorsed Trump’s economic policies.

The question is: Why are so many Republicans backing him? There are two answers: first, he’s tough on illegal immigration, the only issue many conservatives believe matters. The second answer is more telling, however: Trump has heavy support because Republicans rejected ideological purity a long time ago. And here’s the irony: Goldberg and others can’t call Tea Partiers to Jesus on Trump because, according to polls, Tea Partiers don’t support Trump in outsized numbers. The reality is that the same people who don’t like ideological litmus tests support Trump. Just a few weeks back, the Washington Post concluded that Trump’s fans “are more moderate than Tea Partiers were,” significantly more likely to call themselves Republicans than Tea Partiers were, far younger and less religious and blue collar than Tea Partiers.

As Sallah from Raiders of the Lost Ark would put it, “Jonah, you’re digging in the wrong place.”

If you want to target Trump supporters for failing to take conservatism seriously, try starting with those who don’t take conservatism seriously. Most of them were trained in the acceptability of “victory before conservatism” Republicanism by the some of the same folks now deriding the poll-leading Trump.

I’ve lived this story before: I’m from California. Trump is Arnold Schwarzenegger without the Austrian accent. He’s a know-nothing with a huge name and a Teflon personality, and people get behind him because he’s a celebrity and because victory matters more than principle. I know that’s so, because I made the same mistake with regard to Schwarzenegger, explicitly endorsing him in spite of his insufficient conservatism on the grounds that voters in California would get used to voting Republican.

That was a failure. Schwarzenegger was terrible, and what followed him was a shift to radical leftism unthinkable in the early days of his candidacy. I learned that lesson, and in January 2012, I said that the conservative embrace of Mitt Romney would pervert the movement itself, in the same way Goldberg now accuses Trump of perverting conservatism:

Yes, defeating horrible politicians like Barack Obama is the top goal — but that doesn’t justify redefining conservatism entirely…. When we deliberately broaden conservatism to encompass government-forced purchase of health insurance or raising taxes or appointing liberal judges or enforcing same-sex marriage or using taxpayer money to bail out business or pushing trade barriers, we destroy conservatism from within. If we do that, why would our politicians even bother to pay lip service to the standard?

Like Goldberg, I fear the same from Trump: I fear that he’ll be a wild card with no governing principle, that even if he were to win, he’d irrevocably split conservatism. But I also recognize that Trump isn’t a departure for Republicans abandoning principle: he’s the political love child of Mitt Romney and Barack Obama, a combination of the non-conservative “victory mentality” and the arrogance of a dictatorial left many conservatives want to see countered with fire.

In sum, I’m happy to welcome establishment Republicans who want to revivify conservative litmus tests to the party. But from now on, let’s be consistent: if we’re going to oust Trump based on his ideology, those requirements can’t be waived for others.

Click for Full Text!


Poster Comment:

The comparison to Schwarzenegger is an interesting one.

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#1. To: Rufus T Firefly (#0)

Here's an excellent rebuttal:

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/09/07/an-open-letter-to- jonah-goldberg-re-the-gop-and-donald-trump/#more-105803

misterwhite  posted on  2015-09-08   15:13:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Rufus T Firefly (#0)

Trump is a product of a conservatism-less Republicanism, prepared for and championed by the intellectual elites who told us to ignore Mitt Romney’s creation of Romneycare and Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) 43% ’s campaign finance reform, who told conservatives to shut up and get in line, who explained that conservatives had to throw over Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) 96% and his government shutdowns in favor of Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY) 52% and his pathological inability to take a hard stand against President Obama using the tools at his disposal.

Over at National Review, even as Goldberg condemns Trump for his non-conservatism, another columnist simultaneously urges a ticket with Governor “God Told Me To Use Obamacare Money To Expand Medicaid” John Kasich (R-OH) and Sen. Marco “Immigration Gang of Eight” Rubio (R-FL). Goldberg himself championed Romney’s candidacy because he wasn’t a conservative, writing back in 2012:

Even if Romney is a Potemkin conservative (a claim I think has merit but is also exaggerated), there is an instrumental case to be made for him: It is better to have a president who owes you than to have one who claims to own you. A President Romney would be on a very short leash.

Why wouldn’t the same logic apply to Trump?

And while Goldberg today raps Trump on the knuckles for his support of socialized medicine, going so far as to label opposition to such policy a “core tenet of American conservatism from Day One,” Goldberg used Romneycare as a point in favor of Romney in 2012: “He is a man of duty and purpose. He was told to ‘fix’ health care in ways Massachusetts would like… He did it all. The man does his assignments.”

Deserves to be repeated...and rubbed in Republicans' faces.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-08   17:53:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

Deserves to be repeated...and rubbed in Republicans' faces.

True . . . but to what end?

Most posters here do not hold the gop establishment in very high regard. With good reason, I might add.

But let's not forget - while it's not good at WINNING elections (perhaps that's not even its goal), the gop-e is good at WINNING the nomination.

Trump has - for the moment - seemingly thrown a monkey wrench into the works. But there's still almost a year until the convention, and well over a year until the election. Plenty of time to respond to Trump and somehow neuter him

Remember - to the ruling party (of which the gop is a part), WE are the enemy. All of its resources are aimed at defeating US.

"Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD . . . "

~Psalm 33:12a

Rufus T Firefly  posted on  2015-09-08   18:22:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Rufus T Firefly (#0)

The TEA party was Conservatism at its best. It was near totally grass roots inspired, led and driven. The GOP and so-called conservatives allowed it to be steamrollered by Obama and his entirely corrupted regime while backstabbing the besieged patriots. I say ___ them ____ them all. (insert appropriate indecent insult please)

jeremiad  posted on  2015-09-08   18:59:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Rufus T Firefly (#0)

National Review has ceased to be a lucid conservative voice.

rlk  posted on  2015-09-08   21:24:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: rlk (#5) (Edited)

"National Review has ceased to be a lucid conservative voice."

With Jonah weighing in, I believe the entire staff has now come out against Trump, each with their own piece. Maybe they're a bunch of open-border Libertarians over there, and Trump is hitting a nerve.

OK. So they claim Trump isn't a "real" conservative. Then who do they all support? JEB?

Seriously. Who's their poster boy for conservatism?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-09-08   21:35:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Rufus T Firefly (#0)

"according to polls, Tea Partiers don’t support Trump in outsized numbers."

Why wouldn't they?

Maybe he's referring to "Club for Growth" -- the group that backed Tea Party-supported candidates starting in 2010. They hit up Trump for a $1 million donation and he said no. So now they're threatening to run negative ads saying he's not a 'real' conservative.

I guess sleaze knows no party affiliation.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-09-08   21:58:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Rufus T Firefly (#0)

Goldberg, whom I consider a friend and a brilliant commentator, is right to label Trump insufficiently conservative.

Insufficient? What a sophomoric comment. Trump is power monger; there is no "conservative" about the guy. He is an absolute elitist as the best statement that anyone can suggest about Trump.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-09-08   22:06:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: buckeroo (#8)

He's a socialite with trousers and bad hair.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-09-08   22:13:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Fred Mertz (#9)

And, Trump has a "plan" to represent you and me and these so-called citizens that are GAGA about Trump. Another US failure is in the making.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-09-08   22:18:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: buckeroo (#10)

Lots of regular folks are liking him. Kind of scary.

Today I learned that a wrench turner friend of mine likes him too - in Kentucky. Go figure.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-09-08   22:27:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Rufus T Firefly (#0)

And here’s the irony: Goldberg and others can’t call Tea Partiers to Jesus on Trump because, according to polls, Tea Partiers don’t support Trump in outsized numbers. The reality is that the same people who don’t like ideological litmus tests support Trump. Just a few weeks back, the Washington Post concluded that Trump’s fans “are more moderate than Tea Partiers were,” significantly more likely to call themselves Republicans than Tea Partiers were, far younger and less religious and blue collar than Tea Partiers.

I've pointed out the same. It isn't the Tea folk who are to blame for Trump. Apparently, they see through his schtick. It's more the rank-and-file regular Republicans who are attracted to Trump. Trump does have a lot of LIV support, mostly due to his celebrity.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-09   6:18:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: misterwhite (#6)

With Jonah weighing in, I believe the entire staff has now come out against Trump, each with their own piece.

He was openly opposed to Trump from the get-go.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-09   6:21:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: TooConservative (#12)

"It isn't the Tea folk who are to blame for Trump."

I see. Instead, the Tea Party is supporting .... hmmm, who ARE they supporting if not Trump? A "real" conservative I bet, who's going to dominate the primaries and sweep the election.

And that would be ....?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-09-09   10:15:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: misterwhite (#1)

Shapiro, Goldberg, hmmm. Seems to some sort of pattern going on here, wonder what it could be?

nativist nationalist  posted on  2015-09-09   10:16:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: TooConservative (#12)

"Trump does have a lot of LIV support, mostly due to his celebrity."

It worked for Al Franken. Jesse Ventura. Clint Eastwood. Ronald Reagan. Dwight Eisenhower. Sonny Bono. Fred Thompson. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Hell, it even worked for the Kennedys and the Bushes.

Or, maybe you're saying it's better we lose with only educated voters than win with LIV. I mean, you have principles, dammit!

misterwhite  posted on  2015-09-09   10:27:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: misterwhite (#6)

With Jonah weighing in, I believe the entire staff has now come out against Trump, each with their own piece. Maybe they're a bunch of open-border Libertarians over there, and Trump is hitting a nerve.

Over at VDAre it's been known as the "Goldberg Review" for quite some time. With a name like that you can imagine they favor fences around one nation, but not another. Henry Ford and Joseph Stalin were 2 different guys, but one noted the Pharisees as being "International, and the other as "rootless cosmopolitans." In the western nations the ruling class is increasingly at odds with the country they rule over, but in each nation the ruling class is heavily supported by the Pharisees.

The Pharisees are extremely anti-nationalist in every nation, with one glaring exception. And they expect us to pay for it.

nativist nationalist  posted on  2015-09-09   10:36:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: misterwhite (#14)

Instead, the Tea Party is supporting .... hmmm, who ARE they supporting if not Trump?

I had the impression they were split but the biggest candidate group were Walker fans initially, based on his performance in the recalls. I think some are now with Cruz and Carson and even a handful with Trump. I doubt any of them goes for Bush or Kasich or Crispy. The Tea folk would be people who are looking for consistent policy and Trump's flipflops do more to disqualify him with them than anything.

You do have a few sellout Tea wannabes like RedState's Erickson who is shilling for Bush but I think that's just a pure financial transaction. Erickson picked his horse early and can't really back out now. I'm not sure that RedState members follow Erickson's lead that much. I'd say from browsing there that maybe 5%-10% support Bush like Erickson does.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-09   10:45:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: TooConservative (#13) (Edited)

"He was openly opposed to Trump from the get-go."

Well, there's "opposed" because you're amused by the prospect and there's "opposed" because you're really scared it might come to be.

All his articles are in the NRO archive, and you can see the change in tone over time.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-09-09   10:45:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: misterwhite, TooConservative (#14)

I see. Instead, the Tea Party is supporting .... hmmm, who ARE they supporting if not Trump?

Disenfranchised of both parties. The people sick of the SOS different election. They really are not progressives in either party or conservatives in the GOP.

The reason why he is getting so many black votes is because these are people who see what the illegal aliens are doing to their community when it comes to jobs.

He is getting the southern voter[of any race] who are tired of the invasion of illegal aliens from south of the border.

Just this one topic will get at least 25% of the vote.

Justified  posted on  2015-09-09   10:46:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: misterwhite (#16)

It worked for Al Franken. Jesse Ventura. Clint Eastwood. Ronald Reagan. Dwight Eisenhower. Sonny Bono. Fred Thompson. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

There are huge differences between the quality and qualifications of those you listed.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-09   10:46:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: misterwhite (#19)

Well, there's "opposed" because you're amused by the prospect and there's "opposed" because you're really scared it might come to be.

I admit, I can't stand Trump as a pol but I can't watch him for five seconds without starting to giggle because he's such a ridiculous gasbag.

I really can't believe you guys actually take him seriously.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-09   10:48:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Justified (#20)

Disenfranchised of both parties. The people sick of the SOS different election. They really are not progressives in either party or conservatives in the GOP.

At present, it's all name recognition. Only Bush has anything remotely comparable to Trump's name recognition and not in a good way as the Bush name is pretty trashed due to Dumbya's wars.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-09   10:50:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: TooConservative (#21)

"There are huge differences between the quality and qualifications of those you listed."

Sure. Are you saying the low information voters would be aware of those qualities and qualifications? That sounds to me like a well-informed voter.

Do you want to change the subject and talk about qualities and qualifications of candidates, or do you want to stay with the original topic you brought up -- people who appealed to the LIV because of their celebrity status?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-09-09   11:01:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: TooConservative (#23)

At present, it's all name recognition.

I see this as where the GOP is wrong about Trump. They think its just his name that is getting people behind him and as soon as they realize what his message is they will leave him. He is just a short term fad that will burn out. Its not[remember Barack Insane Obama?]. Its his message that is getting people behind him from both parties. Its his take no prisoner attitude that makes them stay. Until others move this way, which many of the GOP can not, they will not catch him in the polls. He will be the GOP nominee unless something big breaks.

Justified  posted on  2015-09-09   11:07:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Justified (#25)

For me, it's the... I don't give a shit if you're so weak to cope with hearing the truth.... ANCHOR BABY, ANCHOR BABY... ANCHOR BABY. Shall I say it again?

He says what he wants and doesn't back down by the over sensitized weak pathetic libtards and confirming RINO's

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-09-09   11:10:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: GrandIsland (#26)

Yep. I don't know what he would do while in office but its worth a try in my book. I prefer Cruz but if I have to choose between bush, christy or Trump. Im choosing trump without hesitations.

Justified  posted on  2015-09-09   11:19:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: TooConservative (#22) (Edited)

"but I can't watch him for five seconds without starting to giggle because he's such a ridiculous gasbag."

One of the differences between Trump and the other candidates running is that he reveals his self-absorbed narcissism and the others hide theirs.

Personally, I think it's refreshing. And it's honest. And it makes me trust what he's saying.

I listen to him talk then I listen to the other candidates. I swear to God, if Trump drops out and I have to vote for one of those politically- correct, platitude-spewing, double-talking, condescending, establishment elites, I'll just shoot myself instead. Figuratively speaking. (Sorry to dash your hopes).

misterwhite  posted on  2015-09-09   11:19:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: TooConservative (#23) (Edited)

"and not in a good way as the Bush name is pretty trashed due to Dumbya's wars."

The Democrats are chomping at the bit to paint JEB! as yet another Bush war monger.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-09-09   11:26:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Justified (#25)

Until others move this way, which many of the GOP can not, they will not catch him in the polls.

They're all waiting for Trump to crash and burn. By the time they realize his message is resonating with the voters, it'll be too late. They'll end up looking like followers, not leaders.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-09-09   11:39:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Justified (#27)

"I don't know what he would do while in office but its worth a try in my book."

I agree. And remember, we're not electing a dictator. He still has to work with Congress.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-09-09   11:42:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: misterwhite (#30)

They're all waiting for Trump to crash and burn. By the time they realize his message is resonating with the voters, it'll be too late. They'll end up looking like followers, not leaders.

That is exactly right. Same thing happen when Obama kicked Hillary's butt. Everyone thought he would fad but didn't. He was vague and had the black JFK thing happening which trumped old hag female candidate.

Justified  posted on  2015-09-09   11:43:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Justified (#32)

"He was vague and had the black JFK thing happening"

If Obama was white, he'd still be a community organizer.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-09-09   11:49:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: misterwhite (#33)

If Obama was white, he'd still be a community organizer.

Without a doubt. He would have had to explain everything in detail. He would have been given no mercy on slip ups and would have been hammered with gotcha questions. Then at the end he would have been palmed with why are you trying to take away hillary's mandatory nomination.

Justified  posted on  2015-09-09   11:54:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: misterwhite (#29)

The Democrats are chomping at the bit to paint JEB! as yet another Bush war monger.

Because he is. Not like Dumbya, closer to Spook Daddy probably.

He did criticize Dumbya yesterday for letting the Congress overspend wildly. Obviously true.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-09   12:20:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: misterwhite (#28)

I swear to God, if Trump drops out...

I expect he'll drop out after several defeats.

I now expect Carson to win Iowa. Kasich has a decent chance in NH, perhaps Walker or Bush or Rubio could surge there.

I think at some point, Trump will run into a buzzsaw of opposition from pro-lifers, pro-gunners, Club for Growth and others. In large part, these were what stopped Giuliani as the 2008 frontrunner when he had ridden high in the polls at 65% approval rating among GOP voters in 2007 through early 2008.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-09   12:32:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: misterwhite (#24)

Do you want to change the subject and talk about qualities and qualifications of candidates

I was just pointing out that the quality of those candidates and the offices they sought over different decades were too different for meaningful comparisons to be drawn.

You seriously expect to compare Ventura with Reagan? I can't imagine how.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-09   12:36:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Justified (#25)

Its his message that is getting people behind him from both parties.

I've seen no polling indicating that Trump is drawing support from Dem voters. He is mostly getting support from the bread-and-butter, cradle Republican types who are LIVs. Also, he's drawing in a fair number of voters who haven't participated in years, mostly the old Perot Reform Party types.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-09   12:39:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: TooConservative (#36)

"In large part, these were what stopped Giuliani as the 2008 frontrunner"

People liked Giuliani because he was the hero of 9/11. That's all they knew about him.

But he didn't do well in the first debate, was supportive of gays, was pro-choice, and for gun control. As his political positions became known, he lost support.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-09-09   13:00:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: TooConservative (#37)

"You seriously expect to compare Ventura with Reagan? I can't imagine how."

Me? No. But a LIV would compare the two by saying he heard of them and remembers seeing them on TV.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-09-09   13:02:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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