[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

"Analysis: The Final State of the Presidential Race" He’ll, You Pieces of Garbage The Future of Warfare -- No more martyrdom! "Kamala’s Inane Talking Points" "The Harris Campaign Is Testament to the Toxicity of Woke Politics" Easy Drywall Patch Israel Preparing NEW Iran Strike? Iran Vows “Unimaginable” Response | Watchman Newscast In Logansport, Indiana, Kids are Being Pushed Out of Schools After Migrants Swelled County’s Population by 30%: "Everybody else is falling behind" Exclusive — Bernie Moreno: We Spend $110,000 Per Illegal Migrant Per Year, More than Twice What ‘the Average American Makes’ Florida County: 41 of 45 People Arrested for Looting after Hurricanes Helene and Milton are Noncitizens Presidential race: Is a Split Ticket the only Answer? hurricanes and heat waves are Worse 'Backbone of Iran's missile industry' destroyed by IAF strikes on Islamic Republic Joe Rogan Experience #2219 - Donald Trump IDF raids Hezbollah Radwan Forces underground bases, discovers massive cache of weapons Gallant: ‘After we strike in Iran,’ the world will understand all of our training The Atlantic Hit Piece On Trump Is A Psy-Op To Justify Post-Election Violence If Harris Loses Six Al Jazeera journalists are Hamas, PIJ terrorists Judge Aileen Cannon, who tossed Trump's classified docs case, on list of proposed candidates for attorney general Iran's Assassination Program in Europe: Europe Goes Back to Sleep Susan Olsen says Brady Bunch revival was cancelled because she’s MAGA. Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence. Tenn. AG reveals ICE released thousands of ‘murderers and rapists’ from detention centers into US streets Kamala Harris Touts Mass Amnesty Offering Fast-Tracked Citizenship to Nearly Every Illegal Alien in U.S. Migration Crisis Fueled Rise in Tuberculosis Cases Study Finds "They’re Going to Try to Kill Trump Again" "Dems' Attempts at Power Grab Losing Their Grip" "Restoring a ‘Great Moderation’ in Fiscal Policy" "As attacks intensify, Trump becomes more popular" Posting Articles Now Working Here Another Test Testing Kamala Harris, reparations, and guaranteed income Did Mudboy Slim finally kill this place? "Why Young Americans Are Not Taught about Evil" "New Rules For Radicals — How To Reinvent Kamala Harris" "Harris’ problem: She’s a complete phony" Hurricane Beryl strikes Bay City (TX) Who Is ‘Destroying Democracy In Darkness?’ ‘Kamalanomics’ is just ‘Bidenomics’ but dumber Even The Washington Post Says Kamala's 'Price Control' Plan is 'Communist' Arthur Ray Hines, "Sneakypete", has passed away. No righT ... for me To hear --- whaT you say ! "Walz’s Fellow Guardsmen Set the Record Straight on Veep Candidate’s Military Career: ‘He Bailed Out’ " "Kamala Harris Selects Progressive Minnesota Governor Tim Walz as Running Mate" "The Teleprompter Campaign" Good Riddance to Ismail Haniyeh "Pagans in Paris" "Liberal groupthink makes American life creepy and could cost Democrats the election". Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Business See other Business Articles Title: Muslim flight attendant: I was suspended for not serving alcohol Source: CBS URL Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/muslim- ... t-expressjet-airlines-alcohol/ Published: Sep 3, 2015 Author: CBS Staff Post Date: 2015-09-06 09:37:11 by cranky Keywords: None Views: 51959 Comments: 251 A Muslim flight attendant filed a complaint with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission claiming she was suspended from her job for not serving alcohol, which is against her religious beliefs, CBS Detroit station WWJ-AM reports. Lena Masri, an attorney for the Council on American-Islamic Relations Michigan, said Charee Stanley followed management's directions, working out an arrangement with her coworkers to accommodate passenger requests for alcohol. However, Masri said, ExpressJet Airlines put Stanley on administrative leave after another attendant filed "an Islamophobic complaint" that referenced Stanley's head scarf. "We notified ExpressJet Airlines of its obligation under the law to reasonably accommodate Ms. Stanley's religious beliefs," Masri said at a news conference in Farmington Hills on Tuesday. "Instead, ExpressJet close to violate Ms. Stanely's constitutional rights, placed her on administrative leave for 12 months, after which her employment may be administratively terminated." Masri said the arrangement Stanley had with other attendants to serve alcohol for her had been working out fine since Stanley converted to Islam about a month after becoming a flight attendant for ExpressJet. "I don't think that I should have to choose between practicing my religion properly or earning a living," Stanley said. "I shouldn't have to choose between one or the other because they're both important." Contacted by WWJ-AM for comment, airline spokesman Jarek Beem responded with the following statement: "At ExpressJet, we embrace and respect the values of all of our team members. We are an equal opportunity employer with a long history of diversity in our workforce. As Ms. Stanley is an employee, we are not able to comment on her personnel matters." The Islamic-relations council is America's largest Muslim civil liberties and advocacy organization with the mission "to enhance the understanding of Islam, encourage dialogue, protect civil liberties, empower American Muslims and build coalitions that promote justice and mutual understanding." Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-211) not displayed.       .       .       . #212. To: Vicomte13 (#170) The three conscientious objector cases I was familiar with involved soldiers who converted to Islam. They would not fight against other Muslims. Two were chartered with a general discharge. One decided he was no longer Muslim when handed orders for Korea. On a separate note...the majority Christian denomination in Army Special Forces is Catholic. You gung ho Catholics:) "The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8 redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-07   18:02:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #213. To: TooConservative (#172) Yet a bogus response. Restaurants like Applebees are not Saloons nor brothels. You are pretty jaded these days. "The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8 redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-07   18:04:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #214. To: SOSO (#177) What if a County Clerk decided only to issue licenses to gay couples and not to straights? Will you still insist that the striaght couples go to another county to get a license? Sure. People used to cross state lines to get married in MD due to the younger age requirement. "The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8 redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-07   18:06:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #215. To: redleghunter (#213) You are pretty jaded these days. I think I'm becoming a grumbly non-voter. Putting up with people in the party swooning over obvious hucksters like, well, Cain or Carson or Trump has worn thin. It means there is no longer any point in voting at all, and it isn't as though there was any actual payoff for me personally before the GOP party base turned into gullible nutjobs. This latest flap of the Supreme Clerk of Kentucky is just another Schiavo spectacle, another Cliven Bundy, another occasion to convince me that the GOP has some really really stupid voters and that I'm worn out paying attention to them. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-07   20:52:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #216. To: sneakypete (#209) Of course I believe in Noah's Ark. I believe in Pearl Harbor too. History is history. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-07   21:22:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #217. To: redleghunter (#214) What if a County Clerk decided only to issue licenses to gay couples and not to straights? Will you still insist that the striaght couples go to another county to get a license? Sure. If you say so. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-09-07   21:23:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #218. To: redleghunter (#211) Why is everyone making special accommodations for sodomites? Do you REALLY want the answer to that question? I'm sure I will get an answer:) I'm not inclined to want to answer this one, because it cuts uncomfortably close to clairvoyance about a topic most don't want to know that people are clairvoyant about. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-07   21:24:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #219. To: TooConservative (#215) I think I'm becoming a grumbly non-voter. At last! Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-07   21:25:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #220. To: TooConservative, redleghunter (#215) I think I'm becoming a grumbly non-voter. Putting up with people in the party swooning over obvious hucksters like, well, Cain or Carson or Trump has worn thin. It means there is no longer any point in voting at all, and it isn't as though there was any actual payoff for me personally before the GOP party base turned into gullible nutjobs. A bit late but welcome to the club. I that hope all the PolyAnna is gone. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-09-07   21:46:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #221. To: redleghunter (#212) On a separate note...the majority Christian denomination in Army Special Forces is Catholic. You gung ho Catholics:) The Catholic Church has historically been militant, and the ethnic groups that make up Catholicism tend to be hotheads or stubborn drunks. And Catholicism cut its teeth passively getting devoured by the Romans for centuries, before finally getting the upper hand once Roman government fell apart. When the ethnic tribes of Europe emerged from Roman rule, they mostly emerged Catholic, and nothing like the passivist Greeks, Jews and urban Easterners. Passively submitting and eschewing violence is not really a Latin, Celtic or Germanic trait. Something close to the opposite is. And then, no sooner did the Empire recede, then the Muslims explode on the scene trying to conquer everybody. They managed to grab Spain and Southern Italy, for awhile, and raided and took slaves along the Mediterranean coasts. The Vikings came in the North too, and the Magyars in Central Europe, all in quick succession. The Catholic tribes didn't take it passively. They became "The Faith Militant". Hell, God even got into the game directly, calling a peasant girl to lead an army to drive out another army of Catholics out of France. You don't find many Catholic vegetarians either. "Catholic" is a culture as much as a religion, and it's a pretty ornery and militaristic culture too. Paul's bit about government being established by God - that's very deep Church doctrine. If some serviceman claims to be a Catholic conscientious objector, the Catholic Chaplain will meet with him and tell him there is no such thing. Like it or not, we're all warriors in a world filled with devils, and we have to FIGHT Satan with temporal weapons just as much as we have to fight him with spiritual ones. And because Catholics are not quarrelsome individualistic Bible readers but rather tribal in their culture, they look to the chief for answers. The chief is the Pope, and while Popes preach peace in the age of nuclear weapons, they were also preaching resistance. It's a very passive-aggressive religion, really...passive when force won't work (Concordats with Napoleon and Hitler), aggressive when it will. Example: the Pope just ordered the Church to take a refugee family per parish all over Europe. Therefore, that will happen. The Church obeys the chain-of-command - the rest of Christianity refuses to admit there IS a chain-of-command LOL. And then there are the Irish. Notre Dame - Our Lady of the Lake - dedicated itself by name to the sweet, gentle Virgin Mary...has not even a frisson of doubt about the contradiction of calling themselves the "Fighting Irish" and having a stereotypical monkey-man Mick with his fists up as their mascot. And they have their proud tradition that EVERYBODY (even the girls) all play Intramural football (it's true), And then there were the old days, with the famous Catholic monastic brother who was a coach in the athletic departments. When there was a dispute, it was "Alright, now, we're gon' t' settle this the way God intended!" and he'd hand the two disputants boxing gloves. Seriously. Catholicism is not at its heart an intellectual religion like Eastern Orthodoxy. It's not all that pious. It's a more rough-and-tumble antidote-to-Islam sort of thing. It went awry in the 1960s trying to take down sex. The Church never said "Boo" for a thousand years of Kings and their open mistresses, but when the peasants start getting hooch the Church reacts. That was a mistake. We're all sinners. And we have to pick our fights. I remember back at Annapolis in the 1980s that both USNA and West Point were majority Catholic, and there was a huge contingent of Catholics at Air Force also. It was a curious thing. I figured it was because the schools are competitive, and the Catholic Schools are a cheap private school system that has a lot of students. But I do think there was more to it than that. I recall that there were very active Protestant proselytizers at Annapolis. Students who had their Christian fellowship groups and were very active, even aggressive, about recruiting. I remember that the agnostics/atheists - there are always a few - found them very annoying and would rail about them. The Catholics just ignored them. I remember trying to go to one of their meetings, but they told me no, I did not have the "proper spirit". In other words, "You're Catholic - you're the enemy!" As the years have gone on, I observe that every one of the guys that I knew who stayed in for a full 20 year career and beyond is Catholic. Every one of them. I had an Air Force general as a history prof, and I remember him saying once on a field trip that the service academies are actually majority Catholic. He opined that it was the Catholic service ethic. I think it's that, but also more specific Catholic militarism. Catholicism is a hierarchical, monarchical religion, with a clear and undisputed chain-of-command. Catholics are from cultures that all still exist because of a military ethic. Consider this too: the Catholics know when to be charitable. During World War II, the Catholic monasteries and the parishes were THE refuge for Jewish children. The Church took on all sorts of children, and women especially, men also, and pretended they were Catholic, pretended they were nuns in training, pretended lots of things. They saved a huge number of people. And the Jews remember. When you look at the way Jews feel about Christians, they really distrust the Evangelicals, and they are distant from Protestants, but they feel much closer to and more comfortable with Catholics. The same thing is likely to happen in Europe because of the refugee crisis with Muslims. The Church, in fine, all over the continent, is going to take in Muslim families, one or two per parish. It'll get them housed and clothed and fed and set up with programs, and shepherd them through the system. And THOSE Muslims will end up carrying a lifelong gratitude to THOSE SPECIFIC Christians, the Catholics. It will create a bridge, but not from some idealistic thing, from very practical homes and food and safety - and always from a position of power, and structure. Magnanimity that overlooks the religious error of the refugee. It changes things. I'm not a Catholic because I like it. I don't, actually. I'm a Catholic because it's True. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-07   22:00:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #222. To: Vicomte13 (#221) During World War II, the Catholic monasteries and the parishes were THE refuge for Jewish children. Well, they do like to fuck children so it isn't that surprising. And the Jews remember. When you look at the way Jews feel about Christians, they really distrust the Evangelicals, and they are distant from Protestants, but they feel much closer to and more comfortable with Catholics. The Israeli Jews are quite close with evangelicals and conservative Prots. They loathe Catholics and miss few opportunities to make that clear. Demographically, American non-Orthodox Jews are dying out or being absorbed by Gentilism (atheism/agnosticism, intermarriage). Meaning that it is widely understood they are not Jewish in any meaningful sense and they will disappear from history as so many other Jews have done over the long centuries, something even American rabbis speak openly about now. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-07   23:10:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #223. To: TooConservative (#222) That's fine. It was good for awhile. Now that the generations have turned, the world is different. Now it's time for a Palestinian state, to curb Jewish pretensions. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-07   23:53:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #224. To: cranky (#0) No shiite, Moo (pigpiss be upon you). Time to get a real religion; your fake one is going away. Hank Rearden  posted on  2015-09-08   10:54:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #225. To: TooConservative, A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#40) Please cite the Kentucky law that authorizes her to issue faggot pretend marriage licenses. You mean, the same laws that require her to issue interracial marriage licenses? The Kentucky state law still forbids same sex marriage but must be considered null and void following Obergefell. It should also be noted that Davis has declined to issue any marriage licenses to anyone to avoid a discrimination charge. But do all the people have a constitutional right to get married, and are the actions of Davis interfering with those constitituional rights? The below article gives the best review of the applicable law that I have seen. The Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) of Kentucky comes into play, as well as Title VII of the Civil Rights Act. It is very much worth the read. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/09/04/when-does-your-religion-legally-excuse-you-from-doing-part-of-your-job/ The Volokh Conspiracy opinion When does your religion legally excuse you from doing part of your job? By Eugene Volokh Washington Post September 4, 2015 NO TEXT - Washington Post source nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-08   12:58:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #226. To: TooConservative, Fred Mertz, redleghunter (#43) She's been married 4 times, but only 3 men. She married one twice. http://m.snopes.com/kim-davis-married-four-times/ Court records detail Kim Davis’ turbulent marital history: She has been married to her current husband twice, with a divorce and another husband in between. She married her first husband, Dwain Wallace, when she was 18, and divorced him in 1994. She acknowledged in a 2008 divorce filing having had two children in 1994 while she was not married. In 1996, at age 30, she married Joe Davis for the first time. They divorced in 2006. The next year, at 40 years old, Davis wed Thomas McIntryre, though their marriage lasted less than a year. She re-married Joe Davis in 2009. nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-08   13:03:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #227. To: TooConservative, Vicomte13 (#64) Where the Supreme Court is wrong on moral decisions that directly contradict the Law of God, the fact that the Law of God has been contradicted in fact DOES give everyone the right to reject their decisions and do otherwise. Well, there is a right or a moral duty to disobey the law, such as sitting in the front of the bus or at the White lunch counter. Called civil disobedience, the doers should expect to be fined, go to jail or be mistreated. nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-08   13:07:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #228. To: TooConservative, A K A Stone (#72) As I understand it, she does not object to recording a sodomy marriage, merely to signing it in advance, considering that she is giving her official blessing to such a marriage in advance. She objects to having her name on it certifying that is was authorized by her as County Clerk. State law required that her name be on the certificate. If state law changed and took her name off, then she would be accepting. nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-08   13:10:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #229. To: A K A Stone, tomder55 (#96) But she was wrong in telling her deputies that they could not issue the licenses even if they had no moral objection to it. No she wasn't. That is the law. The deputies can only issue licenses with her name on them as the County Clerk. She has refused to allow any licenses to be issued to anybody in her name, as it would be a violation of Federal law to discriminate against gays. She stopped issuing marriage licenses altogether. The below article has an excellent review of the applicable laws. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/09/04/when-does-your-religion-legally-excuse-you-from-doing-part-of-your-job/ The Volokh Conspiracy opinion When does your religion legally excuse you from doing part of your job? By Eugene Volokh Washington Post September 4, 2015 NO TEXT - Washington Post source nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-08   13:16:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #230. To: nolu chan (#227) Called civil disobedience, the doers should expect to be fined, go to jail or be mistreated. The doers can expect to be mistreated by evil men. And the evil men can expect, in turn, to be treated justly by God in recompense. The evil men won't like God's justice. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-08   13:17:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #231. To: Vicomte13 (#60) Where the Supreme Court is wrong on moral decisions that directly contradict the Law of God, the fact that the Law of God has been contradicted in fact DOES give everyone the right to reject their decisions and do otherwise. It's no "arbitrary" if people do that - it's based on a Supreme Law far above the mere supreme court of the united states. How very Magdeburg of you:) “Divine laws necessarily trump human ones.” -The Magdeburg Confession, 1550 "The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8 redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-08   13:24:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #232. To: nolu chan, A K A Stone (#225) NO TEXT - Washington Post source I saw Stone post a WaPo recently so maybe he doesn't care. I guess all is well until you receive that first registered letter from WaPo's legal team, like TOS did many years back. As for Volokh, he highlights the state/federal laws well enough but I'm not too persuaded by his various arguments. A lot of wiggle room with the KY RFRA and federal RFRA though. Any federal judge worth his salt could drive a Mack truck through all those loopholes and arrive at any number of outcomes. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-08   13:25:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #233. To: redleghunter (#231) “Divine laws necessarily trump human ones.” Trump, trump, trump. Is that all we hear about any more? LOL Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-08   13:26:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #234. To: nolu chan (#228) She objects to having her name on it certifying that is was authorized by her as County Clerk. State law required that her name be on the certificate. If state law changed and took her name off, then she would be accepting. But it is not "Kim Davis, private citizen" signing those licenses. It is "Kim Davis who embodies the lawful authority of an elected Kentucky county clerk". It's silly to pretend that an official signing a document is rendering a personal political or religious decision. They are certifying, as required by law, that the applicants have met the state's (or federal) requirement to receive said license. She has no basis at all to refuse on religious grounds. That she discriminates against hetero couples just as much as gay couples in a way to shield herself only compounds her guilt. Even by her own standards, she has and is violating the rights of the vast majority of couples (straight) applying for marriage licenses in her county. I've begun to think she should be prosecuted and spend 6 months to a year in jail or in a state prison. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-08   13:34:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #235. To: TooConservative (#233) Trump, trump, trump. Is that all we hear about any more? LOL LOL. But this discussion seems to be touching on some of the points made by the Magdeburg magistrates. "The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8 redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-08   14:04:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #236. To: TooConservative (#234) I've begun to think she should be prosecuted and spend 6 months to a year in jail or in a state prison. I'm beginning to thing that the only way to defeat the American government is massive lawbreaking. The political system has written rules to make it very difficult for the people's will to express itself, but very easy for very rich people to get what THEY want. And the electoral system has been corrupted by electronic voting machines fulfilling Stalin's dictum that it doesn't matter who votes but who counts the votes. Given that control of the government has slipped from the public's grasp, the public should slip the bonds of the rule of the government's law, as the government is no longer legitimate. Massive lawbreaking on a modest level would be a terrifying wake up call to everybody, because it would demonstrate, peacefully, that the people actually CAN tear up all of the contracts and, say, stop paying their mortgages and their taxes and credit cards - revoke their contracts. The system would collapse from that much more quickly than it could assert its control. The last Viceroy of India said that he was pleased the British were allowed to make an orderly exit, because if the Indians had simply refused to pay their taxes British rule would have fallen apart completely in two weeks. That's the truth of it. The political system is so completely corrupt now that we in fact have taxation without representation. A peaceful shot across the bow of government - a week of universal disregard for some law - would be good tonic for the system. Davis believes what she believes, and to the extent she is wrong about that, it's only because Christians in general do not get the Law (of God) quite right. Given her (and their) understanding of it, drawing the line by refusing to obey bad law has promise, because it could motivate millions of people to break the law, and derail the system itself. That wouldn't be a bad result. But it doesn't seem likely to happen here, because of the woman's past, which Christians should overlook, but won't. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-08   14:15:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #237. To: redleghunter (#231) How very Magdeburg of you:) “Divine laws necessarily trump human ones.” -The Magdeburg Confession, 1550 Luther was right about a lot. But then, so was ________. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-08   14:16:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #238. To: Vicomte13 (#237) Luther was right about a lot. But then, so was ________. Actually the confession happened after Luther and after a lot of bloodshed on both sides, which we have lamented on in the past. Was I supposed to guess how to fill in your blank above? Is is Pope Leo X:) "The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8 redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-08   15:27:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #239. To: Vicomte13 (#236) (Edited) I'm beginning to thing that the only way to defeat the American government is massive lawbreaking. I grasp the argument. As CA and other states have designated sanctuary cities and CO and other states have flouted federal drug laws. I'll skip detailing all of Odinga's lawlessness in the interest of brevity. Maybe the Dems won't respect the rule of law until we demonstrate that we are as willing to violate any rule of law as thoroughly and outrageously as they do. It is quite a stretch to argue that lawlessness is the best way to combat lawlessness. This is the obvious weakness of adopting a retaliatory lawlessness strategy. You'd also really need to hold the White House before you tried it. You need an Enabler-In-Chief to keep the various federal agencies off your backs. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-08   15:53:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #240. To: TooConservative (#234) She has no basis at all to refuse on religious grounds. Not true. If a reasonable accomodation is available, then it is usually required. I keep hearing the talking heads saying that Kim Davis agreed to the judge's terms, but I see no such agreement reflected in the Order. I see only his Order. nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-08   16:25:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #241. To: TooConservative (#234) That she discriminates against hetero couples just as much as gay couples in a way to shield herself only compounds her guilt. Not handing out licenses to heteros is not discrimination. Not handing out any licenses at all is not discrimination and she has not been charged with discrimination. What Federal crime are you going to convict her of? The State has taken no action against her. She is certainly not in violation of the State laws. nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-08   16:30:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #242. To: TooConservative (#239) You need an Enabler-In-Chief to keep the various federal agencies off your backs. Not if the revolt is big enough, and involves massive default on monetary obligations. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-08   16:35:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #243. To: redleghunter (#238) Was I supposed to guess how to fill in your blank above? Is is Pope Leo X:) Really, just about anybody's name will fit that blank. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-08   16:36:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #244. To: nolu chan (#241) Not handing out licenses to heteros is not discrimination. Not handing out any licenses at all is not discrimination and she has not been charged with discrimination. She had handed out licenses to straight couples for years. Her sudden refusal to hand out licenses when some of the applicants were same-sex tells any court all they need to know. No judge will be fooled by this amateur window dressing. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-08   17:33:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #245. To: TooConservative (#244) She had handed out licenses to straight couples for years. Her sudden refusal to hand out licenses when some of the applicants were same-sex tells any court all they need to know. No judge will be fooled by this amateur window dressing. Of course! She believes in marriage, and gays getting together isn't marriage. So she refused to call it marriage, and refused to hand over a certificate that said it was marriage. If she handed them out just to heteros, it would be discrimination on the face. By refusing the hand them out at all, under her name, she avoided the direct offense. The mighty government came down and jailed her. Then let her go when it got its way. Once again the government takes the side of evil. Once again, yet another Republican judge comes down on the side of wrong and commits oppression in support of evil. And Christians are forced to choose between their state and its laws, or their God. This time, this woman chose her God. And many Christians criticized her. I was inclined to criticize the logic, but mainly to keep her out of jail. I'm more of the subtle-as-serpent type. She is unsubtle and straightforward and honest - and that is good, actually. Christians are going to be challenged more and more. We see bakeries shuttered and people bankrupted because they won't make wedding cakes for gays. And we see photographers broken because they won't photograph gays. Christians shatter and divide over these things. I think more and more that the ones who defy the law are the holy ones, and the ones who try to defend the law or the honor of the state, are the ones who are siding with evil, because they fear confronting it, and because they have made an idol of the law. I'm halfway there. I DO fear the law and what the state can do. I have obligations, people depending on me. I cannot afford to make a beau geste that will imperil other people. So I will opt to be subtle as a serpent. But I'm not going to try so hard to criticize the braver ones. In fact, I admire them, and I'm going to root them on. For a time I was inclined to try to make peace with Caesar. I was also inclined to take the traditional read of Paul that would have "rulers" mean civil authorities. But I'm more inclined to read rulers as meaning ecclesial authorities, and not the state at all. The bonds of loyalty are snapping, because the country is just too evil. My ancestors left countries in Europe because they became too evil for their blood. America now has the most liberal abortion laws in the Western world, and a very aggressive approach to gay marriage that seeks to visibly crush, as an example, people who stand up to it. More and more, it seems as though the system itself is evil, the people who man it are evil, and that's erasing any residual feelings of affection I had for it. I felt sorry for her all along. Increasingly, I think she is right. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-08   17:49:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #246. To: Vicomte13 (#245) If she handed them out just to heteros, it would be discrimination on the face. By refusing the hand them out at all, under her name, she avoided the direct offense. You're being silly and you know better. The sudden change in her behavior makes it clear she is discriminating and knows that she is, hence her attempt to avoid prosecution by shielding herself with the refusal to issue any marriage licenses, including those she had issued for years with no problems. No federal judge will fail to discern her motives or fall for her amateur legerdemain. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-08   18:04:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #247. To: TooConservative (#246) She has the right to discriminate. God discriminates against gays. She's following his law. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-08   19:53:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #248. To: Vicomte13 (#247) An argument that would get you laughed out of any courtroom. And you know it. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-08   20:00:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #249. To: TooConservative (#248) Of course I know it would get me laughed out of the courtroom. "I am the Son of God" got Jesus laughed out of a courtroom too. Those judges are not laughing now. My point is that there are two realities. A temporary, artificial, human law reality that only lasts for a short time and then is gone with the wind. That is the reality of Supreme Court decisions and laws and politics. And then there is the permanent reality of God's law, with Heaven and Hell at stake for each man. That is true reality. Nothing done in the transient reality should risk that true reality. But that is what is happening. We have a legal system and a culture that believes more in its own philosophies than in the Truth, and that has set itself with a will directly against the truth on so many things that it is not possible to actually enforce American law and still keep the Law of God. The former has been structured to directly attack the latter. I take the "subtle as serpents" approach to these things. I would not go into a courtroom. I would try to show Mrs. Davis the truth about marriage licenses - that they are nothing, meaningless - that they are the equivalent of meat sold at the marketplace sacrificed to idols: the idols are not real, and you know it, so there is no sin in eating the meat. I would hope that by facing the full truth she would not enter into the full on conflict with the authorities that will have her laughed out of court into a jail cell - even though she is right and the judge has imperiled his own future horrendously by oppressing her. I would try to persuade her to be strong and remember the truth, and not become entangled in superstitions about idols. You're not serving an idol if you do not believe in it. But if those words were unpersuasive to her (and they seem to have gone right over everybody's head here too, because people here are so angry about the issue that they just can't pull back to see the overarching theology), if she is one of those who is weak and really sees the meat "sacrificed" "to idols" has being really sacrificed to idols, such that eating it is idolatry, well then I would encourage her to be strong in facing the martyrdom coming her way. Christianity survived its early trials BOTH because some people were strong and went to the lions, inspiring others, but ALSO because most were quiet, passive, subtle as serpents, maintained their faith within but shrugged their shoulders at the outward demands. This allowed them to SURVIVE. Had every Christian been a lion and strode into the arena, there would have been none left. Christianity survived because most Christians were subtle as serpents - and under God's law, deceit of the enemy is a legitimate tactic in warfare. Christians must be honest in their dealings, BUT Christians can lie in warfare as a tactic against their enemies, just as Hebrew prophets under the law deceived their enemies in order to defeat them. The Falun Gong in China are aboveboard, passive, straightforward. And Falun Gong will not be around in a century to be a new Christianity, because the Falun Gong are not subtle. The openly defy, and they openly die. Christians both openly defied, but much moreso quietly resisted, passively (and with the deception permitted to warriors of God, when necessary), and actively when they dared risk it. This is why Christianity wore out the Empire. The Christians presented an ever-shifting, and growing, mosaic of people, some of whom were lions who inspired others by their martyrdom, and others who were serpents who preserved themselves, their families and those around them by dissimulation, while expanding the reign of God through silent marches in back passages. Both the lions and the serpents advanced the cause. Davis here was a lion. I am pleased she is out of prison. Her example will embolden other Christians: the state really can't do much to defiance. It can jail you - at significant cost to itself. If poor Christians, especially, take a tough stance and refuse to back down, they can become so numerous that they act as support for each other in prison - a political prisoner class - and they can begin to impose immense costs on the state which the state is ill-prepared to bear. Christians outside can visit them (as we are supposed to do) and provide them succor and support - and jobs and reinsertion into society when they come out. Christians should actively discriminate in their hiring practices in favor of other Christians, just as Jews have done for centuries. If this nation wants to go to war with the reign of God, then Christians need to rise to the challenge, undermine the nation just as they undermined Rome, and through their superior cooperation with one another, cause a new thing to be born. It is clear from the pagan's behavior that Christians and pagans really cannot any longer live side by side in peace. The pagans are waging war on the Christians, and stepping up their attacks. The Christians have been torpid, in the lazy and excessively hopeful belief that it was a "Christian" nation whose traditions would prevent persecution of Christians. But that is no longer true. The nation has turned on Christ. Therefore Christians must undermine it and destroy it, and replace it with a Christian government. If they won't, then the Muslims will eventually get here and do it, as they are in Europe. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-08   20:59:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #250. To: Vicomte13 (#237) Luther was right about a lot. What was Luther "right" about? You can identify his "righteousness" can't you? buckeroo  posted on  2015-09-08   21:40:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #251. To: buckeroo (#250) He was right about the absurdity and wrongness of selling forgiveness. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-09   0:33:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register]  Please report web page problems, questions and comments to webmaster@libertysflame.com