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Title: Muslim flight attendant: I was suspended for not serving alcohol
Source: CBS
URL Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/muslim- ... t-expressjet-airlines-alcohol/
Published: Sep 3, 2015
Author: CBS Staff
Post Date: 2015-09-06 09:37:11 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 51966
Comments: 251

A Muslim flight attendant filed a complaint with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission claiming she was suspended from her job for not serving alcohol, which is against her religious beliefs, CBS Detroit station WWJ-AM reports.

Lena Masri, an attorney for the Council on American-Islamic Relations Michigan, said Charee Stanley followed management's directions, working out an arrangement with her coworkers to accommodate passenger requests for alcohol.

However, Masri said, ExpressJet Airlines put Stanley on administrative leave after another attendant filed "an Islamophobic complaint" that referenced Stanley's head scarf.

"We notified ExpressJet Airlines of its obligation under the law to reasonably accommodate Ms. Stanley's religious beliefs," Masri said at a news conference in Farmington Hills on Tuesday. "Instead, ExpressJet close to violate Ms. Stanely's constitutional rights, placed her on administrative leave for 12 months, after which her employment may be administratively terminated."

Masri said the arrangement Stanley had with other attendants to serve alcohol for her had been working out fine since Stanley converted to Islam about a month after becoming a flight attendant for ExpressJet.

"I don't think that I should have to choose between practicing my religion properly or earning a living," Stanley said. "I shouldn't have to choose between one or the other because they're both important."

Contacted by WWJ-AM for comment, airline spokesman Jarek Beem responded with the following statement:

"At ExpressJet, we embrace and respect the values of all of our team members. We are an equal opportunity employer with a long history of diversity in our workforce. As Ms. Stanley is an employee, we are not able to comment on her personnel matters."

The Islamic-relations council is America's largest Muslim civil liberties and advocacy organization with the mission "to enhance the understanding of Islam, encourage dialogue, protect civil liberties, empower American Muslims and build coalitions that promote justice and mutual understanding."

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#200. To: Vicomte13 (#198) (Edited)

The moral law revealed by God is the only true one that will lead to mankind's ultimate happiness, will cause him to please God, and will give him a place in the City of God in the afterlife, though. That's why it's the only one worth focusing on.

What God is this? Your God? Where is this God, so I can admonish the creature for all your silly concepts that do not lead to survival of the fittest?

buckeroo  posted on  2015-09-07   16:47:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: Vicomte13 (#197)

Looks like somewhere in East Africa or the Middle East.

You are referring to Babylon, correct?

buckeroo  posted on  2015-09-07   16:51:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#202. To: buckeroo (#199)

You are misinformed. The Romans wiped their asses using sponges on a stick.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-07   17:07:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#203. To: buckeroo (#200)

Where is this God, so I can admonish the creature for all your silly concepts that do not lead to survival of the fittest?

You will know soon enough.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-07   17:08:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#204. To: buckeroo (#201)

You are referring to Babylon, correct?

No. Not correct. I was referring to the Great Rift.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-07   17:09:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#205. To: Vicomte13 (#203)

You will know soon enough.

I would rather face my maker with the force of free will as opposed to adhering to some faerie-tale that you adhere towards. At least I can go down as a MAN as opposed to some silly, little groveling idiot that shouldn't be on the planet anyways.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-09-07   17:16:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#206. To: Vicomte13 (#204)

I was referring to the Great Rift.

It really doesn't matter. You are not capable or discussing factual data.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-09-07   17:17:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#207. To: TooConservative (#73)

Thanks for the article. Seems Hot Air is taking the conservative libertarian approach to government involvement in marriage. I noticed the disclaimer for age and consent. Interesting.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-07   17:24:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#208. To: Vicomte13 (#192)

But you won't take a scientific tone but an angry emotional one. This stuff plays around with your superstitions.

Oh,the irony!

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-09-07   17:35:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#209. To: Vicomte13 (#193)

Human life did not spring up in a short time over a variety of places. Our chromosomal and mitochondrial DNA trace backwards to a singular origin.

BullBush!

NO life,be it plant or animal,suddenly leaps forward out of a vacuum. The ideal conditions have to exist for it to come into being,and when they do,life will suddenly appear all over.

Then again,you no doubt believe the fable about Noah and the Ark.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-09-07   17:38:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#210. To: tomder55 (#92)

I would advise Davis to resign. She was elected when sodomite marriage was illegal. Now according to 5-4 fiat it is not.

Then again the sodomite couple could have gone elsewhere.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-07   17:39:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#211. To: Vicomte13 (#162)

Why is everyone making special accommodations for sodomites?

Do you REALLY want the answer to that question?

I'm sure I will get an answer:)

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-07   17:43:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#212. To: Vicomte13 (#170)

The three conscientious objector cases I was familiar with involved soldiers who converted to Islam. They would not fight against other Muslims. Two were chartered with a general discharge. One decided he was no longer Muslim when handed orders for Korea.

On a separate note...the majority Christian denomination in Army Special Forces is Catholic. You gung ho Catholics:)

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-07   18:02:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#213. To: TooConservative (#172)

Yet a bogus response. Restaurants like Applebees are not Saloons nor brothels.

You are pretty jaded these days.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-07   18:04:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: SOSO (#177)

What if a County Clerk decided only to issue licenses to gay couples and not to straights? Will you still insist that the striaght couples go to another county to get a license?

Sure. People used to cross state lines to get married in MD due to the younger age requirement.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-07   18:06:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#215. To: redleghunter (#213)

You are pretty jaded these days.

I think I'm becoming a grumbly non-voter. Putting up with people in the party swooning over obvious hucksters like, well, Cain or Carson or Trump has worn thin. It means there is no longer any point in voting at all, and it isn't as though there was any actual payoff for me personally before the GOP party base turned into gullible nutjobs.

This latest flap of the Supreme Clerk of Kentucky is just another Schiavo spectacle, another Cliven Bundy, another occasion to convince me that the GOP has some really really stupid voters and that I'm worn out paying attention to them.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-07   20:52:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#216. To: sneakypete (#209)

Of course I believe in Noah's Ark. I believe in Pearl Harbor too. History is history.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-07   21:22:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#217. To: redleghunter (#214)

What if a County Clerk decided only to issue licenses to gay couples and not to straights? Will you still insist that the striaght couples go to another county to get a license?

Sure.

If you say so.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-09-07   21:23:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#218. To: redleghunter (#211)

Why is everyone making special accommodations for sodomites?

Do you REALLY want the answer to that question?

I'm sure I will get an answer:)

I'm not inclined to want to answer this one, because it cuts uncomfortably close to clairvoyance about a topic most don't want to know that people are clairvoyant about.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-07   21:24:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#219. To: TooConservative (#215)

I think I'm becoming a grumbly non-voter.

At last!

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-07   21:25:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#220. To: TooConservative, redleghunter (#215)

I think I'm becoming a grumbly non-voter. Putting up with people in the party swooning over obvious hucksters like, well, Cain or Carson or Trump has worn thin. It means there is no longer any point in voting at all, and it isn't as though there was any actual payoff for me personally before the GOP party base turned into gullible nutjobs.

A bit late but welcome to the club. I that hope all the PolyAnna is gone.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-09-07   21:46:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#221. To: redleghunter (#212)

On a separate note...the majority Christian denomination in Army Special Forces is Catholic. You gung ho Catholics:)

The Catholic Church has historically been militant, and the ethnic groups that make up Catholicism tend to be hotheads or stubborn drunks.

And Catholicism cut its teeth passively getting devoured by the Romans for centuries, before finally getting the upper hand once Roman government fell apart. When the ethnic tribes of Europe emerged from Roman rule, they mostly emerged Catholic, and nothing like the passivist Greeks, Jews and urban Easterners.

Passively submitting and eschewing violence is not really a Latin, Celtic or Germanic trait. Something close to the opposite is.

And then, no sooner did the Empire recede, then the Muslims explode on the scene trying to conquer everybody. They managed to grab Spain and Southern Italy, for awhile, and raided and took slaves along the Mediterranean coasts. The Vikings came in the North too, and the Magyars in Central Europe, all in quick succession. The Catholic tribes didn't take it passively. They became "The Faith Militant". Hell, God even got into the game directly, calling a peasant girl to lead an army to drive out another army of Catholics out of France.

You don't find many Catholic vegetarians either.

"Catholic" is a culture as much as a religion, and it's a pretty ornery and militaristic culture too. Paul's bit about government being established by God - that's very deep Church doctrine.

If some serviceman claims to be a Catholic conscientious objector, the Catholic Chaplain will meet with him and tell him there is no such thing. Like it or not, we're all warriors in a world filled with devils, and we have to FIGHT Satan with temporal weapons just as much as we have to fight him with spiritual ones.

And because Catholics are not quarrelsome individualistic Bible readers but rather tribal in their culture, they look to the chief for answers. The chief is the Pope, and while Popes preach peace in the age of nuclear weapons, they were also preaching resistance. It's a very passive-aggressive religion, really...passive when force won't work (Concordats with Napoleon and Hitler), aggressive when it will.

Example: the Pope just ordered the Church to take a refugee family per parish all over Europe. Therefore, that will happen. The Church obeys the chain-of-command - the rest of Christianity refuses to admit there IS a chain-of-command LOL.

And then there are the Irish. Notre Dame - Our Lady of the Lake - dedicated itself by name to the sweet, gentle Virgin Mary...has not even a frisson of doubt about the contradiction of calling themselves the "Fighting Irish" and having a stereotypical monkey-man Mick with his fists up as their mascot. And they have their proud tradition that EVERYBODY (even the girls) all play Intramural football (it's true), And then there were the old days, with the famous Catholic monastic brother who was a coach in the athletic departments. When there was a dispute, it was "Alright, now, we're gon' t' settle this the way God intended!" and he'd hand the two disputants boxing gloves. Seriously.

Catholicism is not at its heart an intellectual religion like Eastern Orthodoxy. It's not all that pious. It's a more rough-and-tumble antidote-to-Islam sort of thing. It went awry in the 1960s trying to take down sex. The Church never said "Boo" for a thousand years of Kings and their open mistresses, but when the peasants start getting hooch the Church reacts. That was a mistake. We're all sinners. And we have to pick our fights.

I remember back at Annapolis in the 1980s that both USNA and West Point were majority Catholic, and there was a huge contingent of Catholics at Air Force also. It was a curious thing. I figured it was because the schools are competitive, and the Catholic Schools are a cheap private school system that has a lot of students. But I do think there was more to it than that.

I recall that there were very active Protestant proselytizers at Annapolis. Students who had their Christian fellowship groups and were very active, even aggressive, about recruiting. I remember that the agnostics/atheists - there are always a few - found them very annoying and would rail about them. The Catholics just ignored them. I remember trying to go to one of their meetings, but they told me no, I did not have the "proper spirit". In other words, "You're Catholic - you're the enemy!"

As the years have gone on, I observe that every one of the guys that I knew who stayed in for a full 20 year career and beyond is Catholic. Every one of them.

I had an Air Force general as a history prof, and I remember him saying once on a field trip that the service academies are actually majority Catholic. He opined that it was the Catholic service ethic.

I think it's that, but also more specific Catholic militarism. Catholicism is a hierarchical, monarchical religion, with a clear and undisputed chain-of-command. Catholics are from cultures that all still exist because of a military ethic.

Consider this too: the Catholics know when to be charitable. During World War II, the Catholic monasteries and the parishes were THE refuge for Jewish children. The Church took on all sorts of children, and women especially, men also, and pretended they were Catholic, pretended they were nuns in training, pretended lots of things. They saved a huge number of people. And the Jews remember. When you look at the way Jews feel about Christians, they really distrust the Evangelicals, and they are distant from Protestants, but they feel much closer to and more comfortable with Catholics.

The same thing is likely to happen in Europe because of the refugee crisis with Muslims. The Church, in fine, all over the continent, is going to take in Muslim families, one or two per parish. It'll get them housed and clothed and fed and set up with programs, and shepherd them through the system. And THOSE Muslims will end up carrying a lifelong gratitude to THOSE SPECIFIC Christians, the Catholics. It will create a bridge, but not from some idealistic thing, from very practical homes and food and safety - and always from a position of power, and structure. Magnanimity that overlooks the religious error of the refugee.

It changes things.

I'm not a Catholic because I like it. I don't, actually. I'm a Catholic because it's True.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-07   22:00:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#222. To: Vicomte13 (#221)

During World War II, the Catholic monasteries and the parishes were THE refuge for Jewish children.

Well, they do like to fuck children so it isn't that surprising.

And the Jews remember. When you look at the way Jews feel about Christians, they really distrust the Evangelicals, and they are distant from Protestants, but they feel much closer to and more comfortable with Catholics.

The Israeli Jews are quite close with evangelicals and conservative Prots. They loathe Catholics and miss few opportunities to make that clear. Demographically, American non-Orthodox Jews are dying out or being absorbed by Gentilism (atheism/agnosticism, intermarriage). Meaning that it is widely understood they are not Jewish in any meaningful sense and they will disappear from history as so many other Jews have done over the long centuries, something even American rabbis speak openly about now.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-07   23:10:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#223. To: TooConservative (#222)

That's fine. It was good for awhile. Now that the generations have turned, the world is different. Now it's time for a Palestinian state, to curb Jewish pretensions.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-07   23:53:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#224. To: cranky (#0)

No shiite, Moo (pigpiss be upon you).

Time to get a real religion; your fake one is going away.

Hank Rearden  posted on  2015-09-08   10:54:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#225. To: TooConservative, A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#40)

Please cite the Kentucky law that authorizes her to issue faggot pretend marriage licenses.

You mean, the same laws that require her to issue interracial marriage licenses?

The Kentucky state law still forbids same sex marriage but must be considered null and void following Obergefell. It should also be noted that Davis has declined to issue any marriage licenses to anyone to avoid a discrimination charge. But do all the people have a constitutional right to get married, and are the actions of Davis interfering with those constitituional rights?

The below article gives the best review of the applicable law that I have seen.

The Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) of Kentucky comes into play, as well as Title VII of the Civil Rights Act. It is very much worth the read.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/09/04/when-does-your-religion-legally-excuse-you-from-doing-part-of-your-job/

The Volokh Conspiracy
opinion

When does your religion legally excuse you from doing part of your job?

By Eugene Volokh Washington Post September 4, 2015

NO TEXT - Washington Post source

nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-08   12:58:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#226. To: TooConservative, Fred Mertz, redleghunter (#43)

She's been married 4 times, but only 3 men. She married one twice.

http://m.snopes.com/kim-davis-married-four-times/

Court records detail Kim Davis’ turbulent marital history: She has been married to her current husband twice, with a divorce and another husband in between.

She married her first husband, Dwain Wallace, when she was 18, and divorced him in 1994.

She acknowledged in a 2008 divorce filing having had two children in 1994 while she was not married.

In 1996, at age 30, she married Joe Davis for the first time. They divorced in 2006.

The next year, at 40 years old, Davis wed Thomas McIntryre, though their marriage lasted less than a year.

She re-married Joe Davis in 2009.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-08   13:03:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#227. To: TooConservative, Vicomte13 (#64)

Where the Supreme Court is wrong on moral decisions that directly contradict the Law of God, the fact that the Law of God has been contradicted in fact DOES give everyone the right to reject their decisions and do otherwise.

Well, there is a right or a moral duty to disobey the law, such as sitting in the front of the bus or at the White lunch counter. Called civil disobedience, the doers should expect to be fined, go to jail or be mistreated.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-08   13:07:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#228. To: TooConservative, A K A Stone (#72)

As I understand it, she does not object to recording a sodomy marriage, merely to signing it in advance, considering that she is giving her official blessing to such a marriage in advance.

She objects to having her name on it certifying that is was authorized by her as County Clerk. State law required that her name be on the certificate. If state law changed and took her name off, then she would be accepting.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-08   13:10:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#229. To: A K A Stone, tomder55 (#96)

But she was wrong in telling her deputies that they could not issue the licenses even if they had no moral objection to it.

No she wasn't. That is the law.

The deputies can only issue licenses with her name on them as the County Clerk. She has refused to allow any licenses to be issued to anybody in her name, as it would be a violation of Federal law to discriminate against gays. She stopped issuing marriage licenses altogether.

The below article has an excellent review of the applicable laws.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/09/04/when-does-your-religion-legally-excuse-you-from-doing-part-of-your-job/

The Volokh Conspiracy
opinion

When does your religion legally excuse you from doing part of your job?

By Eugene Volokh Washington Post September 4, 2015

NO TEXT - Washington Post source

nolu chan  posted on  2015-09-08   13:16:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#230. To: nolu chan (#227)

Called civil disobedience, the doers should expect to be fined, go to jail or be mistreated.

The doers can expect to be mistreated by evil men. And the evil men can expect, in turn, to be treated justly by God in recompense. The evil men won't like God's justice.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-08   13:17:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#231. To: Vicomte13 (#60)

Where the Supreme Court is wrong on moral decisions that directly contradict the Law of God, the fact that the Law of God has been contradicted in fact DOES give everyone the right to reject their decisions and do otherwise. It's no "arbitrary" if people do that - it's based on a Supreme Law far above the mere supreme court of the united states.

How very Magdeburg of you:)

“Divine laws necessarily trump human ones.”

-The Magdeburg Confession, 1550

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-08   13:24:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#232. To: nolu chan, A K A Stone (#225)

NO TEXT - Washington Post source

I saw Stone post a WaPo recently so maybe he doesn't care. I guess all is well until you receive that first registered letter from WaPo's legal team, like TOS did many years back.

As for Volokh, he highlights the state/federal laws well enough but I'm not too persuaded by his various arguments.

A lot of wiggle room with the KY RFRA and federal RFRA though. Any federal judge worth his salt could drive a Mack truck through all those loopholes and arrive at any number of outcomes.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-08   13:25:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#233. To: redleghunter (#231)

“Divine laws necessarily trump human ones.”

Trump, trump, trump. Is that all we hear about any more? LOL

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-08   13:26:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#234. To: nolu chan (#228)

She objects to having her name on it certifying that is was authorized by her as County Clerk. State law required that her name be on the certificate. If state law changed and took her name off, then she would be accepting.

But it is not "Kim Davis, private citizen" signing those licenses. It is "Kim Davis who embodies the lawful authority of an elected Kentucky county clerk".

It's silly to pretend that an official signing a document is rendering a personal political or religious decision. They are certifying, as required by law, that the applicants have met the state's (or federal) requirement to receive said license.

She has no basis at all to refuse on religious grounds. That she discriminates against hetero couples just as much as gay couples in a way to shield herself only compounds her guilt. Even by her own standards, she has and is violating the rights of the vast majority of couples (straight) applying for marriage licenses in her county.

I've begun to think she should be prosecuted and spend 6 months to a year in jail or in a state prison.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-08   13:34:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#235. To: TooConservative (#233)

Trump, trump, trump. Is that all we hear about any more? LOL

LOL. But this discussion seems to be touching on some of the points made by the Magdeburg magistrates.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-08   14:04:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#236. To: TooConservative (#234)

I've begun to think she should be prosecuted and spend 6 months to a year in jail or in a state prison.

I'm beginning to thing that the only way to defeat the American government is massive lawbreaking. The political system has written rules to make it very difficult for the people's will to express itself, but very easy for very rich people to get what THEY want. And the electoral system has been corrupted by electronic voting machines fulfilling Stalin's dictum that it doesn't matter who votes but who counts the votes.

Given that control of the government has slipped from the public's grasp, the public should slip the bonds of the rule of the government's law, as the government is no longer legitimate. Massive lawbreaking on a modest level would be a terrifying wake up call to everybody, because it would demonstrate, peacefully, that the people actually CAN tear up all of the contracts and, say, stop paying their mortgages and their taxes and credit cards - revoke their contracts. The system would collapse from that much more quickly than it could assert its control. The last Viceroy of India said that he was pleased the British were allowed to make an orderly exit, because if the Indians had simply refused to pay their taxes British rule would have fallen apart completely in two weeks.

That's the truth of it. The political system is so completely corrupt now that we in fact have taxation without representation. A peaceful shot across the bow of government - a week of universal disregard for some law - would be good tonic for the system.

Davis believes what she believes, and to the extent she is wrong about that, it's only because Christians in general do not get the Law (of God) quite right. Given her (and their) understanding of it, drawing the line by refusing to obey bad law has promise, because it could motivate millions of people to break the law, and derail the system itself.

That wouldn't be a bad result. But it doesn't seem likely to happen here, because of the woman's past, which Christians should overlook, but won't.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-08   14:15:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#237. To: redleghunter (#231)

How very Magdeburg of you:)

“Divine laws necessarily trump human ones.”

-The Magdeburg Confession, 1550

Luther was right about a lot. But then, so was ________.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-09-08   14:16:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#238. To: Vicomte13 (#237)

Luther was right about a lot. But then, so was ________.

Actually the confession happened after Luther and after a lot of bloodshed on both sides, which we have lamented on in the past.

Was I supposed to guess how to fill in your blank above? Is is Pope Leo X:)

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-08   15:27:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#239. To: Vicomte13 (#236) (Edited)

I'm beginning to thing that the only way to defeat the American government is massive lawbreaking.

I grasp the argument. As CA and other states have designated sanctuary cities and CO and other states have flouted federal drug laws. I'll skip detailing all of Odinga's lawlessness in the interest of brevity.

Maybe the Dems won't respect the rule of law until we demonstrate that we are as willing to violate any rule of law as thoroughly and outrageously as they do.

It is quite a stretch to argue that lawlessness is the best way to combat lawlessness. This is the obvious weakness of adopting a retaliatory lawlessness strategy.

You'd also really need to hold the White House before you tried it. You need an Enabler-In-Chief to keep the various federal agencies off your backs.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-09-08   15:53:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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