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Religion
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Title: Pope tells priests to pardon women who have abortions
Source: AFP
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/pope-tells-pr ... women-abortions-110936598.html
Published: Sep 1, 2015
Author: Staff
Post Date: 2015-09-01 08:17:04 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 2869
Comments: 44

Pope Francis on Tuesday called on priests to pardon women who have abortions, and the doctors who perform them, during the upcoming Jubilee year -- overruling hardline traditionalists within the Catholic Church.

"I have decided, notwithstanding anything to the contrary, to concede to all priests for the Jubilee Year the discretion to absolve of the sin of abortion those who have procured it and who, with contrite heart, seek forgiveness for it," he said.

In a message outlining special measures for the Jubilee, Francis said he knew that while "the tragedy of abortion is experienced by some with a superficial awareness... many others... believe that they have no other option".

The Argentine pontiff said he was "well aware of the pressure" that some women were under to abort, adding that he had "met so many women who bear in their heart the scar of this agonising and painful decision".

The 78-year-old, who has repeatedly urged the Church to show greater compassion, said priests should use "words of genuine welcome", as well as making sure those involved were aware of "the gravity of the sin committed".

Francis announced earlier this year a Jubilee year -- traditionally a time for remission and forgiveness -- which will run from December 8 to November 20 and be celebrated not only in the Vatican but in dioceses across the world.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 28.

#1. To: cranky (#0)

The Pope is nothing. The WORD of GOD and His word are everything.


Friday August 15, 2014 Who does God hold most responsible for an abortion? Leviticus 20:1-5

I'm going to do this thought as if it were a letter to a young girl, a young girl who has had an abortion. It makes no difference what I call her, and it makes no difference how many abortions she has had, or even her age, she could be 16, 26 or even 60 or more. I'm going to call her Rachael.

Dear Rachael,

I know you have had an abortion and I know that you know that what you did is wrong. How you got pregnant is not relevant, what is relevant is that you allowed the life of the little baby in your womb to be ended.

Rachael, I also know that you think that Christ hates you for what you did and that He could never forgive you. Two things my little one, first Christ does not hate you and second He can't wait to forgive you, but, He is holy and as such must maintain His rules, and His rule is that you must respond to His persistent, through the Holy Ghost, call for you to ask to be forgiven. (Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any *man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me. * the Greek word translated man is "tis" it would be better translated "whomever" for it is not limited to man, but all of mankind, male and female, unlike the Hebrew "'iysh" word used in Leviticus 20:1-5 which means man, not mankind, not man and women but only man, for the Hebrew word for man is "adam".)

Rachael, as you will see, as we go through the most important prohibition of abortion, by God Almighty, it is the guy who got you pregnant that God commands to be killed for allowing you to abort his seed, it is not you God is furious with, it is the man whose sperm joined with your egg and became his seed. Now, why you ask does God hold the baby's father more responsible for the baby's death than you? It is because he is, in the original Hebrew, adam and you are 'ishshah. ... www.christianpatriot.com/08-15-2014_print.htm

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-09-01   8:45:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: BobCeleste (#1)

The WORD of GOD and His word are everything.

Sad to day, Bob, but words are cheap.

It may be time for God To reveal Himself or move on down the road.

cranky  posted on  2015-09-01   8:47:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: cranky, GarySpFc, liberator (#2)

It may be time for God To reveal Himself or move on down the road.

God already manifested Himself in the flesh for all to see. You just don't believe the people who were eyewitnesses to Jesus Christ.

But, even Thomas doubted until he put his hand in nail prints and side of the Risen Christ.

On the night Jesus Christ was betrayed He spoke this prayer to The Father in Heaven:

From John 17:

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

The entire prayer can be found Here.

Those are the words of Christ with relation to those who would come after the first disciples who walked with Him on earth. Walk up to any Christian or Chrisitian church which exhibits the attributes explained by Jesus Christ above. You will see fulfillment in His very Words.

If it is the scholarship behind the NT as a reliable historical document, you might have to go beyond blog pages and the internet. Below is an excellent source. Sir William Ramsay was an accomplished scholar of antiquity and archaeologist. He entered his studies and research a skeptic much like you.

Bearing of Recent Discovery on the Trustworthiness of the New Testament, 1915,

It's not an easy read...trust me:) But if you are looking for non-drive by internet scholarship, it is this work you should examine.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-01   10:23:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: redleghunter (#4)

You just don't believe the people who were eyewitnesses to Jesus Christ.

That's true enough.

I don't believe any of the chapters in the Bible were written at the time the events were supposed to have occurred nor are they first person accounts written by eyewitnesses or participants after the fact.

I don't believe the actual authors of the Gospels are known. There may have been individuals around circa 33 AD preaching those Gospels and decades or centuries later oral traditions of those teachings were codified and ascribed to one disciple or another by author(s) unknown.

But, I have no reason to believe, for example, that the historical Luke sat down one day and penned the Gospel of Luke.

cranky  posted on  2015-09-01   15:43:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: cranky, liberator, GarySpFc (#19)

I don't believe any of the chapters in the Bible were written at the time the events were supposed to have occurred nor are they first person accounts written by eyewitnesses or participants after the fact.

Then you have deemed the Scriptures complete frauds with the intent to deceive. That puts all historical manuscripts tucked into the fraud category by your approach.

So for example, the Simon Peter in the Gospels and Acts is not the Simon Peter who wrote this:

2 Peter 1:

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

So the above was a fabrication? If so then all the letters we supposedly have of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson et. al. are fabrications. We only have historians who tell us that the letters belonged to those men. All the original eyewitnesses are dead. So there's not much of any history that seems trustworthy for you.

For the NT Scriptures we can put a 'cap' on your escape clause. In addition to the NT manuscripts, no later than the end of the 1st Century we have sermons and theological works quoting the exact same Scriptures we have today. No writings or works of antiquity can claim the same. That is how the early church fathers combated heresies. They had the Word by tradition and in writing. That is called a dual independent check. Nothing else from antiquity other than Judaism can claim that.

I don't believe the actual authors of the Gospels are known. There may have been individuals around circa 33 AD preaching those Gospels and decades or centuries later oral traditions of those teachings were codified and ascribed to one disciple or another by author(s) unknown.

Again we have the testimony not only of the NT Scriptures themselves, but those who followed who used them in sermons and KNEW those who walked with Christ. The Apostle John it is estimated by 2nd century church fathers lived until the close of the 1st Century. He was young when he walked with Christ on earth.

Sounds like a bit of investigation into early Christian church history is in order for you.

For example: John the Apostle walked with Christ and witnessed His death, resurrection and ascension into Heaven. Then he wrote about it and lived another 60 years or so. While John evangelized Polycarp became his pupil. When John died Polycarp became a bishop/overseer. Polycarp taught Irenaeus and passed down both the oral message and taught him from the written word. By the time of Irenaeus theological institutions cropped up throughout the Roman Empire. This was mid-2nd Century. What's interesting is spread out all over the Roman Empire with no internet, these bishops and theologians somehow were writing sermons and papers on the same scriptures.

But, I have no reason to believe, for example, that the historical Luke sat down one day and penned the Gospel of Luke.

Actually, based on an unbroken line of Christians from the time of Christ, and the wide use of and attribution of the Scriptures while Apostles still lived should lead you to be amazed.

For example, Paul's epistle to the Galatians was not just found in Galatia, but all over the Roman Empire by the turn of the 1st Century. That's pretty amazing.

At the turn of the 1st Century Polycarp quotes from 17 of the 27 NT books we have today in a two page letter to his congregation.

The link below shows all the NT (and some OT) quotes Polycarp uses at the turn of the 1st Century, which is evidence the scriptures themselves were in wide circulation during his lifetime:

Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians

I don't believe the actual authors of the Gospels are known. There may have been individuals around circa 33 AD preaching those Gospels and decades or centuries later oral traditions of those teachings were codified and ascribed to one disciple or another by author(s) unknown.

Leading scholars who studied manuscript evidence and actually conducted digs or examined archaeological data extremely disagree with you:

Dating the Books of the New Testament

Who Wrote the New Testament Books?

But you have seen these links before and even more.

Here's the information on various religious and secular manuscript evidence from antiquity:

Manuscript Evidence

So you have seen all of the above before. It is not a question of having 'no reason to believe' but looking for any reason to doubt.

If you want to throw out thousands of years of scholarship just because you could not witness it unfold on TV or the internet, then you deny all of history or think history is a giant ponzi scam.

So if you would like to discuss the evidence I presented you, I will be more than willing to discuss. However, don't bother continuing this conversation if you find no reason to believe anything from history. Because that is the standard you have established for everything from history.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-01   16:47:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: redleghunter (#20)

Then you have deemed the Scriptures complete frauds with the intent to deceive.

Do you actually believe there were human eyewitnesses to the Creation? And they were taking notes as Creation occurred?

cranky  posted on  2015-09-01   18:26:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: cranky (#22)

Do you actually believe there were human eyewitnesses to the Creation? And they were taking notes as Creation occurred?

Genesis is quite a jump from discussing the Roman Empire era.

Goal post shifting noted.

We were discussing Caesar, Jesus Christ and the NT era.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-01   21:39:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: redleghunter (#25)

We were discussing Caesar, Jesus Christ and the NT era.

And the article is how the largesst Christian church on the planet has succumbed to secularism. Most all other Christian denominations have as well.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-09-01   21:44:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: buckeroo (#26)

the article is how the largesst Christian church on the planet has succumbed to secularism. Most all other Christian denominations have as well.

First I agree with you.

Second, when has a thread ever kept on subject here on LF unless the subject is pot or Copland.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-09-01   21:55:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 28.

#29. To: redleghunter (#28)

Since the Pope of the largest Christian faith has sucummbed to secular points about abortion, the church shall soon describe the theological reasons for priest-gay relationships.

And you Christian guys think it is about the devil when it really all about the US Supreme Court. You missed the points about politicks.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-09-01 22:01:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 28.

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