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Title: The 'Birmingham Koran' fragment that could shake Islam after carbon-dating suggests it is OLDER than the Prophet Muhammad
Source:
Daily Mail Online
URL Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art ... het-Muhammad-scholars-say.html
Published: Aug 31, 2015
Author: Jennifer Newton
Post Date: 2015-08-31 07:29:52 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 7334
Comments: 35
Fragments of the world's oldest Koran, found in Birmingham last month, may predate the Prophet Muhammad and could even rewrite the early history of Islam, according to scholars. The pages, thought to be between 1,448 and 1,371 years old, were discovered bound within the pages of another Koran from the late seventh century at the library of the University of Birmingham. Written in ink in an early form of Arabic script on parchment made from animal skin, the pages contain parts of the Suras, or chapters, 18 to 20, which may have been written by someone who actually knew the Prophet Muhammad - founder of the Islamic faith. Scroll down for video Discovery: Fragments of what is believed to be the world's oldest Koran. Several historians have said it could even predate the Prophet Muhammad The pages were carbon-dated by experts at the University of Oxford, a process which showed the Islamic holy book manuscript could be the oldest Koran in the world. The discovery was said to be particularly significant as in the early years of Islam, the Koran was thought to have been memorised and passed down orally rather written. But now several historians have said that the parchment might even predate Muhammad. It is believed that the Birmingham Koran was produced between 568AD and 645AD, while the dates usually given for Muhammad are between 570AD and 632AD. Historian Tom Holland, told the Times: 'It destabilises, to put it mildly, the idea that we can know anything with certainty about how the Koran emerged - and that in turn has implications for the history of Muhammad and the Companions.' Keith Small, from the University of Oxford's Bodleian Library, added: 'This gives more ground to what have been peripheral views of the Koran's genesis, like that Muhammad and his early followers used a text that was already in existence and shaped it to fit their own political and theological agenda, rather than Muhammad receiving a revelation from heaven. The pages were carbon dated by experts at the University of Oxford, which showed it could be the oldest Koran in the world 
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#12. To: cranky, liberator, CZ82, GarySpFc, *Religious History and Issues* (#0)
It is believed that the Birmingham Koran was produced between 568AD and 645AD, while the dates usually given for Muhammad are between 570AD and 632AD. That's the problem with carbon dating...and scholars who try to infer something from it. Muhammad proclaimed he received the words of the Koran from an angel. We also know from history there are "two" Muhammad's. The one who preached peace and love when he was not in power; and the Muhammad who when gaining power and both Medina and Mecca was a warlord who showed little mercy to the conquered. It is believed that the Birmingham Koran was produced between 568AD and 645AD, while the dates usually given for Muhammad are between 570AD and 632AD. Now how ridiculous is the above. A few years 'left and right' and somehow the book predates the guy who claimed to write the book and is all about him:) I am not Muslim as you know, but maybe you now see the stupidity of some of these 'scholars' making these raving claims "the Qur'an predates the founder"! So what's the difference with this 'discovery?' Let's compare. Christians will use apologetics and scholarship to refute the "Jesus had a wife" fragment. Muslims will now firebomb the city of Birmingham to refute this 'finding.'
Carbon dating the remains of a carbon-based creature that aspirated to ascertain the approximate date of death of that creature is considered accurate and is relied upon by trained professionals in their respective fields regardless of what anonymous internet scholars might have you believe. Nobody is claiming any time frame whatsoever as to when the ink might have been applied to the parchment, as far as I know.
There are constant disputes over the accuracy of carbon dating and have been for decades. A well-known example is the Voynich manuscript. In efforts to determine its origin, they did carbon dating on 4 vellum leaves of the manuscript. CipherMysteries: Voynich radiocarbon dating, part one… CipherMysteries: Radiocarbon dating and the Voynich Manuscript… These links offer a decent intro to some of the many problems of carbon dating when applied to a specific alleged medieval document, one-third the age of this alleged Koran document in the thread's article.
Fine. Then feel free to disregard it as you will. As for me, I will continue to take it for what it is worth.
#26. To: cranky (#24)
Then feel free to disregard it as you will. As for me, I will continue to take it for what it is worth. I have not 'seen' such faith in a method in all of North America.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestBut now several historians have said that the parchment might even predate Muhammad.
#17. To: redleghunter (#12)
That's the problem with carbon dating
#23. To: cranky, redleghunter, Vicomte13, Justified (#17)
Carbon dating the remains of a carbon-based creature that aspirated to ascertain the approximate date of death of that creature is considered accurate and is relied upon by trained professionals in their respective fields regardless of what anonymous internet scholars might have you believe.
#24. To: TooConservative (#23)
There are constant disputes over the accuracy of carbon dating and have been for decades.
Replies to Comment # 24. Fine.
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