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Title: Yes, Trump Lost the Debate
Source:
National Review
URL Source: http://www.nationalreview.com/corne ... 4/trump-lost-debate-rich-lowry
Published: Aug 12, 2015
Author: Rich Lowry
Post Date: 2015-08-12 09:37:23 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 15545
Comments: 132
Per this Suffolk University survey in Iowa that is not an online poll like many of the other post-debate surveys. Trump didn’t suffer a catastrophe (he still leads in the state), but the debate hurt him: The Suffolk survey has warning signs for Trump. By 2-1, 55%-23%, those surveyed say watching Trump in the debate made them feel less comfortable rather than more comfortable with him as a candidate for president. A 54% majority also reject Trump’s complaints that he was treated unfairly by the Fox News anchors who served as moderators; 41% agree with him. And a third of Iowa Republicans say Trump – enmeshed in a post-debate contretemps over his comments about Fox News anchor Megyn Kelly – “doesn’t show appropriate respect for women.” A larger number, 46%, side with the real-estate mogul and reality-TV star, saying criticism of his comments about women “are just examples of political correctness.” Then there’s this: Trump scores a big lead among those who didn’t watch the debate, at 21%, double the standing of retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson, who finishes second at 10%. But among those who watched the debate, Trump does less well, tied with Walker at 14%. Meanwhile, Trump still leads in New Hampshire, but is lower than he had been in prior surveys: BREAKING: NEW @FPUniversity /@bostonherald NH POLL @realDonaldTrump 18% @JebBush 13% @JohnKasich 12% @CarlyFiorina 9% pic.twitter.com/lXa1NZ6JAF— Boston Herald Radio (@HeraldRadio) August 11, 2015 And Rasmussen has Trump losing altitude nationally: The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds Trump with 17% support among Likely Republican Primary Voters, down from 26% in late July before the first GOP debate. Senator Marco Rubio and former Florida Governor Jeb Bush are in second place with 10% support each, in a near tie with Fiorina and Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker who both earn nine percent (9%) of the likely primary vote. Next with eight percent (8%) come retired neurologist Dr. Ben Carson and Senator Ted Cruz at seven percent (7%). (To see survey question wording, click here.) Poster Comment: Trump's highest Suffolk poll standing in IA is among people who didn't watch the debate. So Trump polls best among Iowa's Know-Nothings. He could have advocated full-blown Soviet communism and still been their pick. You can't deny that NR is still a hotbed of Trump haters ("Witless Ape Rides Escalator") so take it all, like any these goofy August name-recognition polls, with a big grain of salt.
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#27. To: TooConservative (#23)
He was a joke. I always knew that. He was there to help take out Ron Paul. I remember that loser was in the debate the excluded Paul from. Then he was at the bottom of the pack behind Ron Paul.
Democrat talk. Truth.
It wasn't a line. It was a truthful observation.
Yeah, you are acting just like gatlin. Are you two related? Seem to have the same dna. You need to seek help! Si vis pacem, para bellum
I'm surprised Gatlin hasn't turned up again. Maybe he's off slumming at TOS. He threw a tantrum and stormed out because Stone wouldn't believe something he said.
That's the thing, I won't sink with anyone. Even if Trump crashes and burns, another candidate will replace him. Since there isn't any viable "perfect" candidate, any of the others (including the RINO's) will be a vast improvement over commie Bernie or socialist Shitlary. If I sink, YOU SINK. In the end, even that RINO that beats trump out will have to deal with the shit pot Trump stirred up... like now the (R) party knows how important a WALL IS to its voting base. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Gatlin is voluntarily MIA... he made the decision on principle. His own principle. Though I disagree with his way of handling the incident that caused him to stop posting, it is and was his decision to make. I hope he returns and realizes not everyone in an on line forum will believe him, be civil with him or agree with him. It is what it is... and that's why we're here. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Not fair to say that about TC. I was pretty much against Trump at first also and will turn on him if he goes sour. What is with this hero worship of candidates in the conservatives ranks. I don't get it. Treat candidates like you would a player on a fantasy baseball team. The candidates are not your virtual reality avatars. Did Trump win the debates? Here is where I can't judge because I am a politics nerd and by my personal standards Trump lost - he seemed like the kid who did not read his assignment and was winging his report in front of the class by clowning around. But I am not Joe Q Public and they loved his style. We are in the modern era where personality trumps (pun intended or not) all. Very few people - even those who are self described conservatives or liberals - have any idea what policies are what. They have no idea what the policies mean when the politican says it (remember Gore and his lock box - what the fuck that was no one knows). The general public has a vague idea what a policy may mean - maybe, but they get personality. They like combative and assertive personality types. They like to be made to laugh. How to stop immigration? Fuck do they know but a "wall" sounds logical. I mean a wall keeps the neighbor's dog out so it must work. That is as deep a thinker as Joe Q Public gets. If you try and talk about employment IDs, fines and legal formulas to deal with illegals Joe Q Public's eyes will roll into their skulls - especially after a hard days work and a couple of beers in them. So Trump is basically running sayin, listen, do I have specific plans? No. But I am a doer and my billions in business prove it and that is enogh for Joe Q Public. Maybe this is the end of the ideologue candidate who has to pass a litmus test from special interest groups. Those people were becoming like the fucking Gestapo for an ideology that actually has no history of working in the real world.
You've just figured that out? You do know that's not breaking news don't you? The corruption of the ruling class patrician establishment GOPe is old news. Ever since Angelo Codevilla wrote "America’s Ruling Class — And the Perils of Revolution" I've been waiting for someone to capitalize on the power vacuum he identified. I had figured it would probably be Trump; but I figured he would do a repeat of Ross Perot and run as an independent from the beginning. His strategy has been better than I could have hoped, he must have an intuitive sense about this sort of thing. Running for the GOP nomination first to expose how the nomination process is rigged in favor of the plutocracy was an even better idea. Lots of fresh wounds come November 2016, so average Joe GOP voter can see just how bad the GOPe is. The more he can do to destroy the GOP the better his chances next November. There is nothing sacred about the GOP. It came to power upon the grave of another party that had lost its way, pimped out to a plutocracy in the 1850's and stabbing its voters in the back. There was nothing sacred about the Whig party. The GOPe has become what those who met in Ripon were against. It should die. The important thing to preserve is America. Threats to America are what should die, and a GOPe that emulates Judas should go into the ash-bin of history. Codevilla's "country class" needs a political party, the ruling class still has the democrat party. Of course in the long run the ruling class is a threat to America. An aristocratic oligarchy is an anathema to the founding ideals of this nation. The ruling class has been waging war against the country class, they will need to reap what they've sown.
I thought pinging him would remind him he isn't forgotten here.
You realize that they see it differently. They own the country, they just let us live in it. Deep down, that is the consensus view of the elite in both parties. The Dems have a better plantation system, having much longer experience with managing slaves. On the GOP plantation, the slaves get a little uppity from time to time.
I don't know. You tell me. Also, turn that around, what is with the intense hatred that TC exudes for someone (Trump) so opposed to the GOPe? My only like for Trump at this point is: 1. The GOPe hates & fears him 2. He is not controlled by GOPe 3. I think he will do a much better job on all of these assine trade deals that the establishment has saddled us with, and therefore exported all of our industry & jobs 4. I like his attitude about all of the massive unlimited immigration 5. I like his attitude about controlling the border 6. I like his attitude that our involvement in foreign deals should be more in our favor I see little to none of that with the other clowns. I take the position that anyone that has so much hatred for Trump is because they are a cheer leader for the establishment. That much support for the establishment is what gave us Romney, McStain, McConnell, cry baby boner, et al. That is also what gave us all the cave ins to the liberal democrats and Ovomit, and that attitude also furthers the march to the NWO. It basically is a choice between America / The US Constitution, and the statist establishment. I am older, and eventually it will make no difference for me. However, I have children that will inherit this nation, so for them, I care. Therefore, I do not know about you, but given a choice, I will choose America / the US Constitution. I cannot speak for everyone, but I hero worship no one. Our nation is in a struggle for survival, and I am opposed to any & all that are facilitating its destruction. That includes the GOPestablishment. F the establishment! Si vis pacem, para bellum
You know I'm getting the distinct impression that some people are getting upset that you aren't wearing a set of Trump kneepads.
F the establishment! Very good post, and excellent summary.
They know. And if Trump is not the nominee, they will know that it's not important ENOUGH for them to change their position. Truth is, they're not going to change their minds. The only way to get the change you want is to give Trump the victory and let him go in and start firing the party officials and replacing them with his own people. THEN the party will change. They already know what the Border-bots want, and they've already decided that the desires of their crony capitalist alphas for cheap exploitable labor trump the desires of people. The Republicans may TALK a better game, but it will be just like abortion. They say what the rubes want to hear, dupe them into voting for them, and then never get it done - and blame Democrat obstruction. And the rubes are rubes, and they'll keep falling for it.
And sometimes the peasants march on the castle with pitchforks. China is old, and many dynasties have forfeited the mandate of heaven over time. GOPe has done the same.
Deep down, they know I'm right. But, like a teenage girl on a fling with some punk their mother disapproves of and their father would like to punch out, you can't talk them out of their summer crush. It's the only logical explanation. Sorry I didn't give you some credit. Fred too, maybe Gary, I guess. And tomder as well. You have to admit, LF has rarely had so many posts. So Trump is good for business at Fox News and at LibertysFlame. : )
The sad part is that so many people are going to become entrenched in their support of him that when the onion is peeled ,they still won't smell the stench.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If I was Trump I would hire body guards lest "a crazy person acting alone" somehow takes a shot at him. He is freaking the party establishment and those people will not hesitate to kill to keep their positions.
You openly admit what you've denied recently: that you favor a President Biden. As I said all along. You really do have a reading comprehension problem. Here, let me help you out. I'll write slowly, so you can understand. (1) I am not a Republican. (2) I am not a Democrat. (3) I do not vote for babykillers. That means no Democrats, no Pataki, no Fiorina, and no Jeb - he killed Terri Schiavo. If the Republicans want my vote, they have to become pro-life and use their power to strike Roe. And they have to stop espousing foolish and evil economics, they have to stop being imperialists and Israel firsters. If the Democrats want my vote, they have to become pro-life and stop exulting in sexual immorality, and they have to stop being imperialists and Israel firsters. In the absence of that I will only consider voting for Republicans whom I believe to really BE pro-life, as opposed to one more con in the Republican game. So I WOULD vote for Huckabee or Santorum. And I MIGHT vote for Paul, Carson or Walker, if they actually persuaded me they really ARE pro-life and not just the typical Republican cons. The Republican nominee will be Jeb or Walker. With Jeb, I get a killer who is a crony capitalist, who believes in all of the stupid Republican economics and imperialism, versus a Hillary, who is a killer and evil in her own way, or Biden, who is wrong about abortion and generally right about economics. I will not vote for either Jeb or Biden, but I would prefer Biden to win that, because then I'm going to at least get Democrat economics, which are more sensible. If it's Walker versus Biden, it depends on whether or not I'm convinced Walker is sincerely pro-life and will apply a pro-life litmus test to Supreme Court nominations. If he won't, I won't vote for him, and I will prefer to see Biden win. If he convinces me that he will, I will grit my teeth and put up with the Republican economics in order to get Roe struck down. It's that simple. I won't vote for him because he's a babykiller, but I prefer Biden over a babykiller Republican, because with Biden I get better economics. I will grit my teeth and put up with Republican economic stupidity and militarism and Israel-first crap and open Borders if I think that the Republican will actually pack the Supreme Court with justices who will strike down Roe v. Wade. Democrats are better at economics than Republicans. So, when things are equal and I've babykillers on both side, I want the Democrat to win. What I really WANT is for the Republican to not be a babykillers. But the Republican Party is pro-choice, and they always put babykillers at the top. I know them by their fruit. Their words to the contrary are lies. There. I don't think I could possibly be clearer. If somebody is looking for a loyalty oath to the Republican party, they should refer to point (1): I am not a Republican. If someone wants to insist I am a Democrat, I refer to point (2) I am not a Democrat, and I do not vote for babykillers. If you don't like reading me say the same things several ways, over and over, then just take what I've said at face value. It's no "gotcha!" to say to an Independent that he prefers a specific Democrat over a specific Republican. I am not a Republican and I have no loyalty to your party. Your party offers no good policies at all, except for pro-life WHEN IT'S SINCERE. Otherwise, the Republican platform is a joke: dumb economics, suicidal foreign policy, Israel first, open borders, crony capitalism - what's not to hate? You're a clown car of stupid ideas. But you say you'll protect babies' lives - and that trumps - but only if you DO IT. Trump is talking different from you. He talks about Border control, and does so credibly. Your party gave us amnesty once and kept that conveyor belt running. Trump recognizes the need for universal health insurance. He doesn't propose single payer (though he correctly acknowledges that it is good), but speaks of a common market in the US - stripping the states of their "right" to make a mess of the market and chop it up, and imposing a federal market. That's smart. And he talks about crony capitalism, about how it has benefited him, and how it ought to start. That's honest. And he seems to have had a change of heart about abortion. I am willing to take a chance on his sincerity, in part because the Republicans are so crazed to drive him out. Anything that makes Republican partisans (other than single-issue pro-life Christians) unhappy makes me smile. You're looking for me to favor your clown car of a party. I spit on the Republican party. I think Republicans are dimwitted on key matters like war, foreign policy and economic. But the Democrats come drenched in baby blood with a heapin' helpin' o' homosexuality, and they disgust me. Having nowhere to go, I pick and choose by candidate. Presented with a babykiller on both sides, I won't VOTE for the babykiller, but I prefer Democratic economics, because they are realistic. They're not RIGHT either, but they're BETTER than the Republican nonsense. I owe your party no loyalty. They've lied to me for years. They have my contempt. If they run the right man, they might get my vote anyway. If they run Trump, they will win the White House and have the change to transform themselves into something I could support again. None of the rest of the Republican candidates can or will do that, and none of them has a hope in hell of beating the Democrats either. For your VICTORY, it's Trump, or it's nothing. For my VOTE, Walker has to convince me he'll pack the Supreme Court with pro-life justices and apply a litmus test.
I'd ease the Veep into a cush job and name Sarah Palin as his replacement. That's the best insurance policy of all.
Also, turn that around, what is with the intense hatred that TC exudes for someone (Trump) so opposed to the GOPe? I was (and kind of am) openly critical of Trump before I supported him and did so because his style of speaking tore up the process. I thoght he was running to get ratings for his series and would bow out. And I wish he did sound more presidential - I really am a fan well spoken words. Modern politicians of both parties don't sound half as eloquent as barely literate Civil War privates in their letters home. You can support Trump but be critical of him. I am hoping he becomes more polished in his speeches - there is no reason to send out tweets like he does that remind me of 12 year old girls fighting via twitter.
TL;DR I already understand.
Deep down I know you are right that Republican crapweasels are going to make sure that Trump doesn't get the nomination, that you're going to foist off Jeb Bush as your candidate, and that the Democrat is going to spank him. I'd prefer that Democrat be Biden. So, deep down I know that the next President will be a Democrat, and I've already made peace with that. I'll support Trump to the end, because he's the only one you've got who can give you the win, and who will change things as he does. You're rather lose than change, so you'll lose, and you'll deserve it.
Biden is a war monger every bit as bloody as McCain and a war criminal for his Kosovo and Serbia war support. The death of his son is probably God's punishment on him. At least I hope it is.
If so, then America lost the debate.
I live in a deep Red state. I don't have to vote for Bush but there is no chance my state flips Dem in anything less than a 45-state Dem landslide. So I have the luxury of voting as I please, knowing where the EC votes will end up. As with criminal law stories we read with surprises depending on the state the crime was in, a lot of voters are in hopelessly Blue or hopelessly Red states. So the ultimate disposition of their vote via the EC is known for years, if not decades, in advance. The states that are like this probably are more than 20 states so it isn't very unusual. Look at your own state. How much difference will it make for the EC vote of your state in 2016, no matter what you do, how much you give, how many you try to convert to or from a given candidate. There are a lot of gimme votes out there for both parties to scoop up easily.
You recall how both Biden and the Stain traveled to Georgia as candidates in 2007. Both also are big on the Colour Revolution they helped impose on Ukraine, resulting in the warfare in east Ukraine. Biden is one of the few who has actually been wrong more often than almost anyone in the Senate over the last 40 years. It is a monumental record of incompetence and wrongheadedness. McStain is barely any better but undoubtedly a bigger warmonger.
Excellent summary of the establishment! Si vis pacem, para bellum
You "understand" the way Republican generally do - which means that you can be counted on to get it wrong.
All die, as punishment for their own sins, or innocently, as victims of others' sins. It's best not to go where you go out of anger. Leave the judgment to God. It would be best, for the spiritual disposition of many people, and the good of the world, for Americans in general to give up on the idea of overseas empire and bring our forces home, cut them by 3/4 and put the remainder on the Border to stop the flow. Defend ourselves against existential threats with a strong nuclear arsenal, but save the money otherwise. And from that position, negotiate peaceful fair trade with the world. It would be best if we focused particularly on the North - on Canada and Russia - and stopped treating Russia as an adversary. They do not need to be. Their spheres of interest don't cross ours, except in the North, and there we can, and should, jointly cooperate on everything - make Russia/US the Entente Cordiale of the 21st Century. It would be best if the poor parts that we faced are the ones we neighbor, because the huge military aid we pour into Israel could, if poured into our own decayed cities and Mexico, actually permanently rectify the situation. It would be best if we did well, and thought well, and acted properly.
Nothing I do in the political sphere ever made a difference. Nor will talking about these things here. Politics is entertainment for people like you and me, nothing more.
You recall how both Biden and the Stain traveled to Georgia as candidates in 2007. Both also are big on the Colour Revolution they helped impose on Ukraine, resulting in the warfare in east Ukraine. Biden is one of the few who has actually been wrong more often than almost anyone in the Senate over the last 40 years. It is a monumental record of incompetence and wrongheadedness. McStain is barely any better but undoubtedly a bigger warmonger. I do recall - I used to be a gung ho NATO loving booster fan. When the Cold War fell I just never expected the USA would side with Muslims over Christians - even if they were the weird eastern Orthodox kind. From the 1990s till today American foreign policy has been a disaster for eastern Christianity - either the USA sides with Muslims against them like in Serbia or its policies lead to destabilized conditions that hurt them. And Biden and McCain and that hog Clinton have been at the forefront of this American made disaster as well as Bush and the neocons. I can't tell the difference. Literally, this is the thing that makes me say these provocative anti-American things as a way to push people out of their comfort zones. But it is no use. The animals are what they are.
What has Biden been wrong about, besides abortion, obviously?
You name it, Biden has been wrong about it. He's famous for this. Then there is his own scandalous conduct over the years. Sometimes I think you don't pay very close attention to the events of American politics.
I don't. I pay attention to key Supreme Court decisions, and to who makes those decisions. Therefore, I pay attention to the nominations of those figures. I pay attention to military and foreign policy decisions. I pay attention to crony capitalist and tax decisions. The rest of it is just two parties I despise squabbling over nothing and I don't bother with it. You say, "You name it, Biden has been wrong about it." Ok. Where did Biden stand on the privatization of Social Security that the Republicans pushed?
Kosovo, Bosnia, Iraq, Syria, Libya.
I think Donald Trump is a greedy, sneaky, vain megalomaniac. Having said that, if the election comes down to him as 3rd Party vs Hillary & Jeb (or Ted Cruz after his ME Christians stunt) I will RUN to the polls to vote for Donald Trump. I am not a Republican anymore and can't vote in the primary in my state as an independent so all I can do is cheer him along. Paul going after Trump was stupid - his strength is foreign policy and libertarianism and he was acting like an inquisitor for party orthodoxy. I still long for a European style Christian democrat party (big C, small d) to join but until then I am with Trump. Also, I think it is time to end our political system. We need to adopt a parliamentary proportional system of governance. Keep the senate at 2 senators each but the house should be apportioned like a parliamentary system. We would see coalition govts and a more honest and representative party system. I am sure within the GOP and Dems are like 8 to 10 different parties.
What was the right answer in each?
What was the right answer in each? The opposite of what Biden advocated.
Trump/Fiorina ticket.
Comments (68 - 132) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestFred Thompson.
#28. To: A K A Stone (#15)
Biden wins. And that's ok.
#29. To: TooConservative (#24)
Lines like that work better for Trump
#30. To: TooConservative, aka stone (#7)
" I am shorting Teh Donald's stock here at LF "
#31. To: Stoner, Gatlin (#30)
Yeah, you are acting just like gatlin. Are you two related? Seem to have the same dna.
#32. To: TooConservative (#17)
(Edited)
LOL. You really do want to go down with the ship. In this case, Trump's yacht.
#33. To: TooConservative (#31)
(Edited)
I'm surprised Gatlin hasn't turned up again. Maybe he's off slumming at TOS. He threw a tantrum and stormed out because Stone wouldn't believe something he said.
#34. To: TooConservative, Stoner, A K A Stone, buckeroo, Vicomte13, A Pole (#7)
(Edited)
TC, your attitude about Trump is starting to remind me of Gatlin's towards Ron Paul.
#35. To: TooConservative (#19)
Trump will never get key party leaders to support him.
#36. To: GrandIsland (#33)
Yeah, you are acting just like gatlin. Are you two related? Seem to have the same dna.
#37. To: nativist nationalist (#35)
Of course in the long run the ruling class is a threat to America. An aristocratic oligarchy is an anathema to the founding ideals of this nation. The ruling class has been waging war against the country class, they will need to reap what they've sown.
#38. To: Pericles, A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#34)
" What is with this hero worship of candidates in the conservatives ranks. I don't get it. "
#39. To: TooConservative (#14)
“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...
#40. To: Stoner (#38)
Our nation is in a struggle for survival, and I am opposed to any & all that are facilitating its destruction. That includes the GOPestablishment.
#41. To: GrandIsland (#32)
now the (R) party knows how important a WALL IS to its voting base.
#42. To: TooConservative (#37)
On the GOP plantation, the slaves get a little uppity from time to time.
#43. To: CZ82, Fred Mertz, tomder55, GarySpFc, buckeroo (#39)
You know I'm getting the distinct impression that some people are getting upset that you aren't wearing a set of Trump kneepads.
#44. To: TooConservative (#43)
#45. To: Vicomte13 (#41)
#46. To: TooConservative, A K A Stone, redleghunter (#16)
But there's no doubt in my mind that if the Republicans nominate anybody but Trump, Biden wins. And that's ok. Take out my Trump, and you still lose. I get at least half a loaf either way.
#47. To: Pericles (#45)
If I was Trump I would hire body guards lest "a crazy person acting alone" somehow takes a shot at him. He is freaking the party establishment and those people will not hesitate to kill to keep their positions.
#48. To: Stoner, A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#38)
What is with this hero worship of candidates in the conservatives ranks. I don't get it. " I don't know. You tell me.
#49. To: Vicomte13 (#46)
Here, let me help you out. I'll write slowly, so you can understand.
#50. To: TooConservative (#43)
Deep down, they know I'm right. But, like a teenage girl on a fling with some punk their mother disapproves of and their father would like to punch out, you can't talk them out of their summer crush.
#51. To: Vicomte13, TooConservative (#50)
#52. To: TooConservative (#0)
Yes, Trump Lost the Debate
#53. To: Vicomte13 (#50)
that you're going to foist off Jeb Bush as your candidate
#54. To: Pericles (#51)
Biden is a war monger every bit as bloody as McCain and a war criminal for his Kosovo and Serbia war support. The death of his son is probably God's punishment on him. At least I hope it is.
#55. To: Vicomte13 (#50)
" You're rather lose than change, so you'll lose, and you'll deserve it. "
#56. To: TooConservative (#49)
I already understand.
#57. To: Pericles (#51)
The death of his son is probably God's punishment on him.
#58. To: TooConservative (#53)
(Edited)
Look at your own state. How much difference will it make for the EC vote of your state in 2016, no matter what you do, how much you give, how many you try to convert to or from a given candidate.
#59. To: TooConservative, Vicomte13, redleghunter (#54)
Biden is a war monger every bit as bloody as McCain and a war criminal for his Kosovo and Serbia war support. The death of his son is probably God's punishment on him. At least I hope it is.
#60. To: TooConservative (#54)
Biden is one of the few who has actually been wrong more often than almost anyone in the Senate over the last 40 years. It is a monumental record of incompetence and wrongheadedness.
#61. To: Vicomte13 (#60)
#62. To: TooConservative (#61)
(Edited)
Sometimes I think you don't pay very close attention to the events of American politics.
#63. To: Vicomte13, TooConservative (#60)
What has Biden been wrong about, besides abortion, obviously?
#64. To: TooConservative (#53)
(Edited)
#65. To: Pericles (#63)
Kosovo, Bosnia, Iraq, Syria, Libya.
#66. To: Vicomte13 (#65)
Kosovo, Bosnia, Iraq, Syria, Libya.
#67. To: TooConservative (#10)
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