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Title: Trump campaign claims it fired top adviser -- who says he quit
Source: CNN
URL Source: http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/08/polit ... ld-trump-campaign-roger-stone/
Published: Aug 8, 2015
Author: MJ Lee and Dana Bash
Post Date: 2015-08-08 20:21:33 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 14965
Comments: 174

(CNN)Donald Trump's campaign said Saturday it has fired top political adviser Roger Stone -- who promptly denied being let go and insisted he had quit.

Stone's disassociation from the Trump operation Saturday highlights the campaign's seeming lack of veteran political advisers, even as the 2016 season is ramping up in earnest. And the dispute opens a window into two different factions of the campaign: one side that wants to maintain Trump's high visibility by capitalizing on his public feuds and bombastic rhetoric, and another that wants to pull the candidate toward more disciplined political strategy.

The episode caps a tumultuous few weeks for Trump's presidential campaign, which recently cut ties with two men accused of writing inflammatory Facebook posts. Trump, who is currently leading national polls, delivered an explosive performance at the first GOP debate in Cleveland Thursday, and went on to make inflammatory comments about Fox News host Megyn Kelly in an interview on CNN Friday night.

"Mr. Trump fired Roger Stone last night. We have a tremendously successful campaign and Roger wanted to use the campaign for his own personal publicity. He has had a number of articles about him recently and Mr. Trump wants to keep the focus of the campaign on how to Make America Great Again," a campaign spokesperson told CNN.

Stone, however, told CNN that he "categorically denies" being fired, and provided what he said was his resignation letter.

"Unfortunately, the current controversies involving personalities and provocative media fights have reached such a high volume that it has distracted attention from your platform and overwhelmed your core message. With this current direction of the candidacy, I no longer can remain involved in your campaign," the letter to Trump says.

Stone added: "I care about you as a friend and wish you well. Be assured I will continue to be vocal and active in the national debate to ensure our nation does not again turn to the failed and distrusted Bush/Clinton families."

Trump's campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, said the team never saw Stone's letter. For his part, Stone tweeted Saturday afternoon that he "fired Trump."

"Sorry @realDonaldTrump didn't fire me- I fired Trump. Diasagree [sic] with diversion to food fight with @megynkelly away core issue messages," the tweet read.

The Washington Post first reported that Stone was no longer a part of Trump's campaign.

Matt Mackowiak, a Republican political consultant and close friend of Stone's, told CNN that Stone was deeply disappointed with Trump's debate performance Thursday.

Stone, a former aide to President Richard Nixon who has known Trump for several decades, helped with the candidate's debate preparations. He had hoped that Trump would stay focused and disciplined, sticking largely to issues like illegal immigration and trade. Instead, Stone concluded that Trump had taken the debate to a "circus-like place."

The working relationship between Stone and Trump became further strained when Trump made controversial comments about Kelly in an interview with CNN's Don Lemon.

"You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes," Trump told Lemon. "Blood coming out of her wherever."

"Calling into CNN and making outrageous comments about Megyn Kelly and making it even more of a circus than it already is, Roger just felt like he couldn't stand by him," Mackowiak said.

Mackowiak also said Stone had planned to announce his resignation Saturday night, and when Trump got word, the candidate announced he had fired Stone.

One Trump associate and friend also told CNN that existing tensions between Stone and Trump reached a breaking point following the candidate's explosive debate performance.

"He has been disenchanted with Trump for a few weeks now," the associate said, citing Stone's perception that Trump's candidacy lacked "seriousness."

According to this source, Stone was unhappy with Trump's conduct on the debate stage in Cleveland, and when Stone shared these thoughts with Trump, the billionaire businessman "didn't want to hear it."

Another Republican source close to Stone said the adviser resigned in part because he grew frustrated with the campaign's refusal to focus on policy specifics and conduct polling.

"Roger has been trying to press the campaign to get specific on issues, to poll, to run an actual campaign, while others in Trumpland have been egging him on to continue to engage in these political food fights like the Megyn Kelly incident," the Republican source said.

Speaking with CNN's Poppy Harlow late Saturday afternoon, Stone again insisted he quit, saying he felt he "was having no impact." He said he hoped Trump would return to speaking about the "big picture" issues, such as trade and immigration, that helped fuel his rise to the top of GOP polls.

But Stone refused to elaborate in greater detail about how his relationship with the campaign ruptured, saying he had "no intention about talking about internal campaign deliberations."

He did say, however, that he and Trump remain friends, and although he isn't a registered Republican, said he would continue to back a Trump bid.

"If I had the opportunity to vote for him in the primaries, I would," he said. "I still think he is the right man to make America great again."


Poster Comment:

Roger Stone is Trump's longtime political adviser and ally, going back decades.

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#83. To: Pericles (#80)

LOL

I'll indulge your guilty pleasure for a while. At least you know better.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-09   13:30:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Pericles (#81)

Trump is a businessman who is willing to fight for the base rather than Giuliani who was a govt employee and talked down to the base.

There is a difference. Trump is saying he sucks as a politician but he built a net worth in the billions.

Maybe he can just declare the country bankrupt. He's had some practice.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-09   13:33:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: TooConservative (#83)

Oh, thank you for allowing me to indulge myself, oh great one!

I actually am not a Republican any longer and my state does not allow cross over votes from independents so I am a bemused spectator at the moment.

Pericles  posted on  2015-08-09   13:33:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Pericles (#85)

I actually am not a Republican any longer and my state does not allow cross over votes from independents so I am a bemused spectator at the moment.

Good. I don't like open primaries or last-minute registration switches.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-09   13:34:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: TooConservative (#84)

"Maybe he can just declare the country bankrupt. He's had some practice."

Okay, Chris Wallace.

"Out of hundreds of deals that I've done — hundreds! — on four occasions, I've taken advantage of the laws of this country like other people," Trump said."

Four bankruptcies out of hundreds of investments? Well, forget it. If he can't be perfect, I'm not voting for him.

Who should I vote for, Too Conservative? Who has a 100% record of decision- making?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-08-09   14:12:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: misterwhite (#87)

Who should I vote for, Too Conservative? Who has a 100% record of decision- making?

How about a candidate who isn't well-known for going bankrupt?

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-09   14:17:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: TooConservative (#88)

I finally looked into his bankruptcies and found this from two days ago:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/what-trump-didnt-say-about-his-four-big-business-bankruptcies/2015/08/07/bc054e64-3d12-11e5-9c2d-ed991d848c48_story.html

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-08-09   14:25:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Fred Mertz (#89)

I finally looked into his bankruptcies and found this from two days ago:

People are going to think differently as more about these bankruptcies surfaces. Just like his refusal to pledge not to run third-party even as he bids for the GOP nomination.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-09   14:31:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: TooConservative, misterwhite (#88)

How about a candidate who isn't well-known for going bankrupt?

As Trump said, he never went bankrupt. He protected his assets by incorporating different companies for different ventures. A company declaring bankruptcy only affects the assets of that company. The poor banksters lost money.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-08-09   19:03:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: TooConservative (#90)

Just like his refusal to pledge not to run third-party even as he bids for the GOP nomination.

You can be such a moron. Do you think Bush would support Trump if he gets the nomi nomination?

Do you think Graham would?

No one gives a shit if he doesn't support the Republican nominee if he is a piece of shit like Bush etc. I didn't say she because that cunt Fiorina or however you spell her name has zero chance. She is a stupid person. No charisma. No ideas. She shouldn't even be on the stage. Not even the kiddie debate.

In fact if he said he would he would lose votes.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-09   19:25:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: TooConservative (#21)

f you intend to stop Bush,

If Bush is the nominee, Biden will stop him.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-09   19:27:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Vicomte13 (#93)

Biden will stop him.

Biden is a piece of shit that favors abortion.

BIDEN: The next president will get one or two Supreme Court nominees. That's how cl close Roe v. Wade is. Just ask yourself: With Robert Bork being the chief ad adviser on the court for Mr. Romney, who do you think he's likely to appoint? Do yo you think he's likely to appoint someone far right, that would outlaw abortion? I I suspect that would happen. I guarantee you that will not happen [with Obama]. We We picked people who are open-minded. They've been good justices.

www.ontheissues.org/2016/Joe_Biden_Abortion.htm

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-09   19:37:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: All, pinguinite, tooconservative (#94)

BIDEN: The next president will get one or two Supreme Court nominees. That's how cl close Roe v. Wade is

Notice the "cl close". I noticed some of my posts today were kind of like that that. Having the first two letters of a word followed by the actual word. I thou thought I made a typo.

This was a cut and paste. It added the cl.

I've been trying out this edge browser. I kind of like it but I think it has some kind of but in it. I don't recall that happening when I use firefox or ch chrome.

Weird

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-09   19:40:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: pinguinite, tooconservative (#95)

I thou thought I

There it is again.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-09   19:41:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: A K A Stone (#92) (Edited)

You can be such a moron. Do you think Bush would support Trump if he gets the nomi nomination?

It isn't refusing to support the nominee or to endorse the nominee. It's the threat to run third party.

Even Ron Paul never threatened to run third party if he wasn't the nominee. They grumbled when he didn't endorse Stain or Romney but that's all. They were peeved when he threw his own post-campaign Ron Paul convention in another arena across town from the GOP convention while they were coronating the loathsome Stain. Real peeved. LOL.

But RP never so much as threatened to run third party, let alone set himself up to do it. And RP had offers for a dual-nomination for the CP and LP nomination. He certainly could have done it.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-09   21:03:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: A K A Stone (#95)

Notice the "cl close". I noticed some of my posts today were kind of like that that. Having the first two letters of a word followed by the actual word. I thou thought I made a typo.

Is it trying to guess the word you're typing? You sometimes get that on Apple devices (and Android) when they are trying to anticipate your words to autocomplete the typing for you.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-09   21:05:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: TooConservative (#97)

But RP never so much as threatened to run third party

Ron Paul never could have run third party successfully.

Trump can. There is nothing immoral about exhausting every avenue possible.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-09   21:36:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: TooConservative (#98)

I don't think that is it. It adds the letters after I type them.

Even in a cut and paste it added letters. I'm proofreading this and there are no errors of that type. I'll see how it posts.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-09   21:37:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: A K A Stone (#99)

In seven months this will be over after Super Tuesday. Then we'll be handed whatever candidates are left standing on the ballot in the General Election nine months after that.

Did you donate to Trump yet?

Believe it or not, I used to donate a few bucks to various candidates of my liking and thinking it made a difference. Boy was I dumb.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-08-09   21:40:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: Fred Mertz (#101)

Did you donate to Trump yet?

I've never donated to anyone.

I did pass out Ross Perot literature though.

Met with some grass roots people.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-09   21:42:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: A K A Stone (#94)

Biden is a piece of shit that favors abortion.

Biden favors abortion. And so does the GOP Establishment.

If abortion is the issue - then the field of candidates is winnowed.

If consistency on abortion over time is the issue, then even I myself am eliminated as a pro-lifer.

I do not look to see where people stood their entire lives. People can change their minds. I look to see the quality of the thinking on the matter today.

For me, abortion is not the only issue pertaining to the same matter. The CORE of the matter is the sanctity of life. And that means that I don't like war-mongers. I don't like people who boast about the death penalty. (Mind you, the death penalty COULD BE just, but the way they do it in Texas, for example, does not safeguard well enough against executing the innocent. To execute the innocent is murder). And I look at euthanasia issues.

Jeb Bush is unacceptable to me because of what he did in the Terri Schiavo case. I've heard all of the jawboning back and forth, but I formed my own opinion on the matter based on firm principles regarding the sanctity of life. And I am unwilling to give anybody supreme power who does not believe as I do on the matter of life.

My view on Biden, and Democrats in general, is that they are better on economics in general. Their view of social welfare is Christian. Republican economic beliefs are aggressively idolatrous about money and quite evil. So, if it were not for the matter of the sanctity of life, I would favor Democrats.

Unfortunately, Democrats are babykillers, and they do not believe in the sanctity of life. Republican war mongers and death-penalty enthusiasts don't believe in the sanctity of life either, but there are Republicans who are not war mongers, who are cautious about wars.

I cannot overlook that. And therefore I cannot vote for a Joe Biden. I don't do the "worst of two evils" approach in voting. Voting is not in itself so important as it is to not affirmatively choose evil.

In recent years, this has left me without a party. Democrats are babykillers, and Republicans are idolators who all too often are also warmongers.

Trump used to be pro-choice, but he seems to have changed his mind. His stance regarding a health insurance common market and more effective redistributive taxation at the top are right. His style makes him amusing.

Assuming he will be rejected by the Republicans, that leaves a field that is so lackluster I don't believe any of them will win against the Democrats.

Which means that a Democrat will be President. When that happens, I think that Biden is a much better person to have the job than Hillary. I still won't vote for him: he's a babykiller, but I would prefer to see him get the office.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-09   21:44:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: Fred Mertz (#101)

Believe it or not, I used to donate a few bucks to various candidates of my liking and thinking it made a difference. Boy was I dumb.

Did you donate to Reagan? If you did you made a difference.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-09   21:44:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: Fred Mertz (#101)

Believe it or not, I used to donate a few bucks to various candidates of my liking and thinking it made a difference. Boy was I dumb.

The only difference it made is that now people can look at the public records and see who you politically supported. And we have not yet enacted laws to make it illegal to fire people based on their political affiliation.

If we are going to have involuntary disclosure of private political contributions, then we need to make it illegal for employers to fire people based on their politics, as a First Amendment matter.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-09   21:45:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: Vicomte13 (#103)

Their view of social welfare is Christian.

It is anti Christian. Everything about the democrats is anti christian.

The fruit of your labor is yours.

The Bible teaches a tithe of 10 percent. Not a tax of 50 plus percent for some people.

You're surely wrong on this one. No doubt.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-09   21:49:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: A K A Stone (#104)

Did you donate to Reagan? If you did you made a difference.

I think so, but it is so long ago I can't be certain. I think I have one of those Ronald Reagan signed pictures - mass reproduced for donors - somewhere in one of those basement boxes. It could have been for donating to the RNC. Like I said, boy was I dumb.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-08-09   21:56:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: A K A Stone (#106)

It is anti Christian. Everything about the democrats is anti christian.

The fruit of your labor is yours.

The Bible teaches a tithe of 10 percent. Not a tax of 50 plus percent for some people.

You're surely wrong on this one. No doubt.

Social welfare is mandated by God throughout Scripture. It was always the state and the King's responsibility and it still is.

Republican beliefs about money are idolatrous, and they abandon God's commandment of social welfare to serve their idol.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-09   22:09:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone (#108)

Don't want to jump in but will add a couple of mites:)

The 10% tithe should be seen within the context of the Jubilees every 7 years.

I am not one to advocate a Mosaic theocracy to run the US. But we learn a lot from the OT and NT on how God expects His ekklesia to treat one another and non-believers in need.

I will add there is strong evidence that we are all to work for a living and provide for ourselves and our families. No free rides in the Bible for those who are able of body and mind to work.

"When Americans reach out for values of faith, family, and caring for the needy, they're saying, "We want the word of God. We want to face the future with the Bible.'"---Ronald Reagan

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-09   22:25:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: Vicomte13 (#108)

Social welfare is mandated by God throughout Scripture.

As individuals we are supposed to help those in need.

But when the government taxes you so much. You can't always do that.

Why should someone who is struggling to make ends meet for their own family. Have to support someone who is able to provide for themselves. Because that is what the democrats are for. They are thieves.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-09   22:38:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: Vicomte13 (#108)

Republican beliefs about money are idolatrous

What beliefs that Republicans have are idolatrous?

What scripture are you referring to to make your "point"?

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-09   22:40:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone (#103)

My view on Biden, and Democrats in general, is that they are better on economics in general. Their view of social welfare is Christian.

I disagree. In both the OT and NT working to support self and family is a bedrock principle. Biden and the Dems support welfare for able bodied people who can work. Welfare in the US is abused and corrupt. There are millions of Americans on welfare while we have immigrants flowing in to take jobs the Americans won't do.

In OT Israel people who could not support their families sold themselves to servitude for six years to pay off debt and gain some income. Basically they worked to get food and clothing for their family. They did not sit in homes refusing to work and collecting income.

That's the brutal truth of the situation. There are Americans who need assistance who cannot physically or mentally work. That is the focus of the Jewish and Christian charity. Not someone who bought a $500K home and could only afford a $100k home, then foreclosed and is destitute. As with the prodigal son, such should return home to family for restitution.

So the Bible does not support able bodied people from not working and receive income from others.

It is rather easy for the government to sort out who is in need. But they won't do so because the able of body vote.

2 Thessalonians 3:

6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat. 13 And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.

14 Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. 15 Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.

"When Americans reach out for values of faith, family, and caring for the needy, they're saying, "We want the word of God. We want to face the future with the Bible.'"---Ronald Reagan

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-09   22:51:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: A K A Stone (#106)

The Bible teaches a tithe of 10 percent.

For Jews. Not Christians. Tithing was the law under the Old Covenant that passed away with the crucifixion of Jesus.

Here is a typical treatment of the subject of tithing in scripture. Only two mentions in the New Testament, neither indicates that tithing was required of the early Christian churches.

Grace Ministries: Is Tithing Required in the New Covenant?

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-09   22:54:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: TooConservative (#113)

For Jews. Not Christians. Tithing was the law under the Old Covenant that passed away with the crucifixion of Jesus.

Maybe maybe not. I'm not sure.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-09   23:18:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: redleghunter, vicmonte13 (#112)

6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat. 13 And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.

14 Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. 15 Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.

Unrefutable. Checkmate.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-09   23:19:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: redleghunter (#109)

I will add there is strong evidence that we are all to work for a living and provide for ourselves and our families. No free rides in the Bible for those who are able of body and mind to work.

Of course not. But our capitalist system, dominated by the Republican and Democrat Party, have sent our jobs to China and Indonesia, to India and Korea and Japan.

There are millions upon millions of Americans who WANT TO WORK, but cannot find work that will sustain themselves and their families, because nobody will hire them.

Nobody will hire them BECAUSE "free" traders have used the political system to find the cheapest labor price - and imported the labor that can't be outsourced - in order to maximize the profits to a handful of capitalists.

In 1976, 50% of the nation's wealth was in the hands of the top 20%. Today, 85% is in the hands of the top 10%. Idolators say that by saying this I am looking to "steal". No. THOSE PEOPLE STOLE to concentrate that wealth. They did not get it through "work". They got it through buying politicians who passed laws that systematically stripped Americans of jobs because we are "too expensive", and shipping the jobs overseas, or opening the border and transporting in millions of illegals.

That is what happened, and everybody KNOWS that is what happened if they think about it. If somebody tells you that that's not what happened, he is a liar, and liars are damned by God. See Revelation.

So, we have a system in which the rulers - the very rich and their bribed politicians, hold the American people underwater and drown them economically, so they CANNOT GET WORK IF THEY WANT IT, and the work they can get cannot provide for their families.

And then you get these dogs, these filthy idolators, who blame the victims, blame the poor struggling people who have been drowned by corruption and laws that throw millions out of work.

People have the right to the fruits of their LABOR, after paying taxes to God, but nobody as the right to the fruits of INTEREST ON MONEY, because that is a sin, and nobody has the right to the fruits of theft, which is what it is when men with money corrupt politicians to favor policies that crush out American industry and replace the workers here with foreigners here and there, solely because the foreigners are unprotected and work for peanuts.

All of that wealth accumulation IS NOT THE FRUIT OF LABOR. The people at the top got it through the sin of usury, and the sin of theft.

It is entirely right, just and godly to force restitution of theft, and to deprive thieves and usurers and idolators of the fruits of their illegal and immoral profits.

But even then, you don't here me calling "Off with their heads!" No. I simply demand that, if we're going to allow these crony capitalists to make money by charging usury and crushing out jobs, that the social safety network then must be created, by taxing away their wealth, to pay for the food, housing, medicine and education of all of those people that the usurers and corrupt thieves have driven out of work and home.

It's as simple as that. Either you crush out usury, which is a sin, and you crush out the money corruption that causes a few to seek profit at the expense of the ABILITY of Americans to work - you impose rules that prevent those things OR, if you will not do that, then you impose fines, in the form of taxes, on those top one percenters who, through their usury and corruption, have beggared their brothers, sisters and neighbors.

The super-rich in America did not get there through honest hard work. They got their through usury and political corruption. Their massive concentration of wealth sucks the oxygen out of the room, puts people out of work so that millions upon millions CANNOT PROVIDE FOR THEMSELVES. THERE ARE NO JOBS, and this is the PRODUCT of the policies that the super-rich have imposed, and NOT because people are "lazy" or "stupid". The people have been ROBBED by theft and usury - corruption that has been imposed by the wealth through the law.

That is what happened. That is the truth. And it is sin, it is siding with evil, to refuse to face the truth.

"Well, all that's true, but it's still wrong to redistribute that stolen wealth to make a safety net for the people who were robbed." That is the Republican argument. It is evil. It is wrong. It is from Satan. It is not Christian, and the people who persist in it, in spite of the truth, are agents of hell, not Christians at all.

I am simply tired of hearing it.

We have to have a social safety net because our government is corrupt and lets the wealthy set rules in a way that literally has crushed out millions of jobs and redistributed 35% of the national wealth to a handful of people in the space of 30 years. That is not "hard work". That is theft, borne of deceit, in the service of money. It's idolatry, it is sin. And social welfare is the only answer to address the hideous want that this has plunged millions of people into.

There is no other way. And these "Christians" are not even PROPOSING another way. They blame the victims of theft and usury. They lie, calling them "lazy" and other names. Their mouths spew lies. They are agents of hell, and they need to be faced and cast out from the community of the faithful, because what they preach is idolatry of money and power. Evil, wicked men, not men of God.

Perhaps they are deluded, but delusion only goes so far. God eventually reached down and opened Saul's eyes, yes, but until he did, Saul was an evil follower of Satan, and he deserved death. Only by repentance did he become a child of God, and even then, because of his thoroughly evil past and his despicable past acts, many never accepted him - and God never criticized them in Scripture for not accepting him. Instead, God saw too it that he was sent to preach to people whom he had NOT harmed, and God left him wounded, with a thorn in his flesh, his whole life. And God made him go through the terror of a bloody execution, just as he himself had done to Christians. Paul was redeemed, but his redemption did not cancel out his past acts, and he still paid for his bloody, foul murders by being himself hauled out and bloodily murdered.

Paul repented of his evil.

But these "Christians" who hate poor people and who worship at the altar of money, of usury, of theft, they don't even repent. They don't even think they are wrong.

And they hector the good. I am not a "socialist". I speak the words that God said. The "Christians" who don't like that are not Christians at all. They just think they are.

That's the way it is.

It is a terrible thing that we have to fight so, but we do. Millions of people need a social safety net because they have been robbed by the government through its laws. They will perish without that safety net or suffer terribly. They CANNOT just "go get jobs" because the centerpiece of the robbery was putting them out of work for cheap pagan foreign labor. "Christians" denying Christians the ability to provide for themselves pursuing the savings found by employing pagans who are little better than slaves in their own country.

It is inexcusable, and Christians - the real kind - need to man up now and stop making excuses for it. And stop blaming the victims. To blame the victims here is a lie, a demonstrable lie. And lies are damned.

The King was required to provide social welfare. We had a revolution. WE are the King now. It falls upon us, then, to provide for our brothers, sisters, neighbors. We cannot shirk it. And we cannot lie and pretend that redistributive taxation, which is at the top taking the fruits of USURY and CORRUPTION and redistributing them back to the very people who were robbed - we cannot pretend that this is "theft", because it manifestly IS NOT.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-09   23:27:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: Vicomte13 (#116)

There are millions upon millions of Americans who WANT TO WORK, but cannot find work that will sustain themselves and their families, because nobody will hire them.

Come on that is a load of crap. You can work at McDonalds and live better then most people throughtout history.

Also more to the point. Nobody owes anyone a job. Create your own job.

You can make money if you try.

The people in Jesus's day didn't have it as easy as people today and they were expected to provide for themselves.

Also Jesus's words are timeless. God knew what the world would be like in the future. He still said if you are idle and don't work you don't eat.

I'm not talking about the disabled or crippled. They should be taken care of by the free will giving of good people.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-09   23:47:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: Vicomte13 (#116)

The super-rich in America did not get there through honest hard work. They got their through usury and political corruption.

Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Donald Trump?

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-09   23:50:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone (#116)

I'm not blaming the victim. You make good points about the export of jobs, yet jobs still exist. I know of two friends who work well below their skill sets for less money than they made a few years back. They could live off of welfare but don't. Because there are jobs out there to keep hands busy and support families.

Most choose the path of least resistance and that is condemned in the Bible too.

When we sift the wheat from chaff in the USA, truly needy families pale in comparison to poverty stricken parts of the world. Most Americans know that and focus their charity outside the USA. Why? Because they know the federal government will support people in this country who can work and won't.

If you are correct and there are no jobs to employ those of able body, then why not bring back the works programs which FDR put in place? If you get your support from the federal government then do some work for that support. For example you are an out of work electrician, do that until a job opens in a postal office or city hall? Meets the requirement to work for your own bread.

A smaller example is the Gospel Mission home my friend runs. They house former drug addicts, convicts and homeless trying to change their lot in life. The mission home works to find them jobs but until that happens they work on projects in the mission home. From administrative work, to carpentry, computer networking, janitorial work and in some cases work to get medical licences reinstated. They eat from the table of the church and if they choose attend services.

"When Americans reach out for values of faith, family, and caring for the needy, they're saying, "We want the word of God. We want to face the future with the Bible.'"---Ronald Reagan

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-10   0:01:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: Fred Mertz, A K A Stone, sneakypete, redleghunter (#107)

I think I have one of those Ronald Reagan signed pictures - mass reproduced for donors - somewhere in one of those basement boxes.

I still have mine of Dean Martin when he ran for President!! :o

“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...

CZ82  posted on  2015-08-10   7:29:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: TooConservative (#6)

Trump seems to be running for prez as Il Duce II, an American Mussolini.

A very apt observation. He even has the same self-satisfied smirk on his face as Il Duce.

Maybe somebody will photo shop Trumps face on the famous photo of Il Duce with that smirk on his face in uniform with the hat,and title it "El Douche"?

If I had photo shop it would already be done.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-08-10   8:01:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: misterwhite (#12)

Snake venom causes a person to bleed from their eyes and nose. To say that a person is bleeding from their eyes and nose is to imply they're full of venom.

Desperation is never pretty.

Or do you think like-long NYC denizen and trust fund child Trump has experience with snake bites?

Maybe one of his bodyguards or servants was bitten by a snake?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-08-10   8:05:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: misterwhite (#17)

"Trump supported the big bank bailouts. Trump supported the Kelo decision."

You mean he voted for them? Oh, wait. He wasn't a Congressman at the time, he was a businessman.

That's just pathetic. Do you blow him,also?

Or maybe you don't understand the definition of "supported"?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-08-10   8:07:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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