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Title: Hey, Let’s Release a Traitor! [Pollard]
Source:
WeaponsMan
URL Source: http://weaponsman.com/?p=24068
Published: Jul 22, 2015
Author: Â
Post Date: 2015-07-22 08:35:28 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 3440
Comments: 66
Jonathan Pollard, caught on surveillance video stealing documents. American traitor Jonathan Pollard is closing in on the backstretch of his stint in Federal Prison. “Wait,” you say. “He was sentenced to life in prison!” Well, just like the way the Administration can release a bunch of terrorists from Gitmo to resume their lives of crime, or swap some of them for a traitor, to reward the turncoat, or release another bunch of drug and gun criminals to play Santa Claus in July — all these things really happened, we are not making them up — they can release a traitor and spy if they like. And the word is, that the US Department of Justice will reward the spy for his 1980s betrayal by kicking him out of his long-term rent-controlled apartment in the Crowbar Condiminiums on the 30th Anniversary of his arrest. Pollard must have been a true puzzlement to the Administration. A spy with the simplest motivation of all, greed, he mostly stole things that were no direct use to his Israeli spymasters, but which they could trade for things they needed from other US enemies, like Russia. That was, in fact, what his Mossad handlers directed him to steal. And Pollard’s mercenary motivation was clear for several reasons. First, he admitted it when caught, so that’s a bit of an indicator. Also, Israel wasn’t his first stop. He’d tried two other foreign powers, only to be turned down (the Russians and Chinese both thought he was a really clumsy FBI dangle), before setting his sights on Israel. Since his arrest, he’s rediscovered his previously more or less lapsed Judaism and conned a lot of Israeli society into believing that the mostly Russian-related secrets he stole were Middle Eastern intel that the US was not sharing with Israel out of a lack of trust (gee, we can’t imagine why that might obtain). He has a huge fan club, and an army of lawyers and helpers that have been trying to spring him for decades, and might finally get their wish. One of their complaints has been that Pollard, who’s only 61, is in ill health and is likely to die within months. (Hmmm, last time we heard that it was about a Libyan terrorist that the British government released due to a “imminently terminal” diagnosis… the guy lived for years). He’s being released, not out of humanitarian concerns, as far as we can tell, but because hey, he was a cancer attacking America, a traitor; and that’s something that the whole Beltway can get behind. The Jonathan Pollard of 2015 probably believes himself he was an Israeli patriot, but the Jonathan Pollard of 1985 would have sold the stuff to Hezbollah or Islamic Jihad just as gladly, if they’d had an embassy (give Washington time, they might) and he’d thought they had any money. His supporters argue that he did not deserve life in prison. We agree. What he deserved was what civilized men always understood as The Spy’s Reward. Still does. Of all the claims about Pollard, the most controversial is the one that he spied for money, and not for Jewish/Israeli patriotism. An excellent overview of the Pollard case by the investigator who took his first confession is Capturing Jonathan Pollard by Ronald Olive, and it recounts Pollard’s extensive drug use, grandiose behavior, and attempts to spy for several nations including Australia (! p. 43-44). He also shared extensive classified and codeword information with a CBS reporter, Kurt Lohbeck, and offered Lohbeck a chance to share with him in the profits of selling one classified document to Pakistan (with whose intelligence agency, Inter-Services Intelligence, Lohbeck already had a relationship). Lohbeck declined, but he and his editor, Sam Roberts, who discussed Pollard at length, apparently never considered turning Pollard in. After all, they could use the secrets he provided. Azoulay, Orly, and Eichner, Itamar. Reports: US Justice Dept. will not oppose Pollard’s release. YNet News, 19 July 2015. Retrieved from: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4681431,00.html Olive, Ronald. Capturing Jonathan Pollard: How One of the Most Notorious Spies in American History Was Brought to Justice. Annapolis: Naval Institute Press, 2013. Shalev, Chemi. Jailed spy Pollard on track for November 21 release – unless something goes wrong. Ha’aretz, Jerusalem. 17 July 2015. Retrieved from: http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-eden/.premium-1.666604
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 29.
#1. To: TooConservative (#0)
Do OUR spies deserve death when captured?
I dunno. That rapidly turns into an argument about situational ethics. I take it you have a strong opinion about it.
I do. God only authorized men to kill men who kill. Spies do not kill. They steal secrets and say what should not be said. To kill a spy is murder, and people who murder other people are thrown by God into Hell. Men can bellow "Our STATE is more important than the life of a sneaking WORM!" And such men are idolators - for they pretend that their emotional service given to an idol of their own hands - their "state", authorizes them to trample the laws of God and ignore God's prohibition of killing men. It does not. Men have no right before God to kill men for spying. None. When they do it, they are murderers and damned to Hell unless they repent. But because they are idolators who believe their states, who have no arms or legs or minds, which are figments of their imagination, made by their own hands, deserve service that supersedes the laws of God, men who kill spies feel justified. They never repent because it makes sense to sacrifice spies to their idols. Whoever executes a spy is a murderer. He has thrown himself into the lake of fire unless he repents. But he will not repent because he is an idolator who worhships his state over God's law. No death for spies.
Not at all. Spies often aid in the murder of others or in acts of war against another country. Being deeply engaged in the missions of foreign spy masters, they are complicit in the many crimes committed against the targeted country, including murders. In Pollard's case, he was weakening U.S. defense with the secrets he was trying to sell to all comers, including an actively hostile USSR. BTW, do you demand the death penalty for our own spies who kill or who are complicit in the deaths of others? Maybe you'd like to take this opportunity to practice some consistency. How do you feel about our soldiers killing anyone in a targeted country in undeclared wars?
How do you feel about our soldiers killing anyone in a targeted country in undeclared wars? American soldiers are men. Men have no right to kill other men, ever. The only two exceptions are in self-defense - which is a limited thing not a "threaten another and then kill him when he defends himself against you" - and in execution of those who have killed, after a fair trial with at least two witnesses and proper procedure. That's it. Wearing a uniform and being in a "declared war" is no license by God to kill. It's a license that men give to men to kill. Wars turn nations into camps of mass murderers. God never authorized men to draw the sword on other men in order to impose laws and dominion over them. Men arrogated that power to themselves. But the Law never changes until the end of the world. When men use deadly force to compel other men to obey rules, they throw themselves into Hell. Generally this is without reprieve, because men are arrogant idolators who refuse to bow down to God's law. They don't see it, and refuse to - because if they DID see it, they would recognize that most of their concepts of states and governments are idols and not sustainable before God at all. But they refuse to see it, because to adjust to a different way would mean that collapse of power, authority, much property, and much wealth. It would mean "reverting" to something that men cannot imagine and do not want. So they defend their idols, against God and his laws. Which means they don't repent their killings. Which means they are murderers and, when they die, they are judged as murderers and thrown into the Lake of Fire. The path is narrow and few find it. The path to destruction is broad and easy and the gate is wide. Most tread it. To be right with God, you have to give up the notion of serving other things. Do I demand the death penalty for our spies, or for anybody? No, because I don't recognize the legitimacy of our state, or any other state, to EXIST under its present terms. States impose themselves by force, under threat of death. They are not legitimate. They have no right or authority to kill in order to preserve their power. They do it, so they must be feared and respected for what they can do, but their legitimacy to exist must never be granted. When God comes, he will throw the United States, and France, and Germany, and Russia and China - virtually all states - into the fire. They will be destroyed as the evil idols they are. And those men who serve their nations loyalty, who break God's fundamental law of not killing in order to serve, are idolators and killers who will all be thrown into hell for their unforgiven - because unrepented - sins. That's the way it is. If you hate it, it's because you are opposed to God. Don't oppose God. You can't win if you do. What has been built cannot be sustained under the laws of God. Therefore it must be seen for what it is: an idol. And not supported or served.
That's all very convenient after the fact. When it counted, you were a gungho military guy yourself. So going all Christian peacenik now doesn't require anything more than just an opinion. When it counted, you served the war machine, no doubt with as many glib justifications as you now hold for others doing the same things you did on active duty.
I think the Revolutionary War was a just war so I am not in agreement with Vic. As for Pollard, I am against special early releases. If there was no parole mechanism for his release and one was created after the fact I would be against it - if eligibility for parole was part of his jail sentence and it seems it was than if he was paroled I would not act like it was some dastardly early release. The traitors of "Falcon and the Snowman" were released for example.
There are no replies to Comment # 29. End Trace Mode for Comment # 29.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestWhat he deserved was what civilized men always understood as The Spy’s Reward.
#3. To: Vicomte13 (#1)
Do OUR spies deserve death when captured?
#4. To: TooConservative (#3)
(Edited)
I dunno. That rapidly turns into an argument about situational ethics. I take it you have a strong opinion about it.
#5. To: Vicomte13 (#4)
Whoever executes a spy is a murderer.
#11. To: TooConservative (#5)
BTW, do you demand the death penalty for our own spies who kill or who are complicit in the deaths of others? Maybe you'd like to take this opportunity to practice some consistency.
#16. To: Vicomte13 (#11)
Generally this is without reprieve, because men are arrogant idolators who refuse to bow down to God's law.
#29. To: TooConservative, Vicomte13 (#16)
Replies to Comment # 29.
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