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Title: Trump creates outrage in Iowa claiming that John McCain wasn't a war hero because he was a captured POW – and dodges questions about his own Vietnam War draft deferments
Source:
Daily Mail Online
URL Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art ... all-half-field-stays-home.html
Published: Jul 18, 2015
Author: David Martosko, US Political Editor
Post Date: 2015-07-18 13:59:06 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 55786
Comments: 201
Donald Trump escalated his feud with Sen. John McCain on Saturady in Iowa by suggesting only his capture and five years as a prisoner of war turned him into a 'war hero.' 'He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured,' Trump said on stage at the Family Leader Summit in Ames. McCain spent years in a Viet Cong prison after the plane he was flying was shot down over Hanoi in October 1967.He was tortured enough to produce permanent physical disabilities. Trump got student and medical deferments and never served in uniform. He told reporters after his speech that a bone spur in his foot led to the medical exemption from the draft. Asked which foot had disqualified him, he couldn't remember. 'You'll have to look it up,' Trump said dismissively. 'It's in the records.' Rick Perry, the former Texas governor who is running 10th in an average of national polls, immediately called for Trump to quit his presidential campaign. ANGRY: Trump attacked Sen. John McCain and said the only reason he is considered a war hero is his capture and imprisonment as a POW during the Vietnam War. NOT A HERO? Sen. John McCain spent more than five years in a North Vietnamese prison after his plane was shot down durign the Vietnam War WALKING WOUNDED: McCain's torture left him disfigured and permanently damaged 'I respect Sen. McCain because he volunteered to serve his country,' Perry said in a statement. 'I cannot say the same of Mr. Trump.' 'His comments have reached a new low in American politics. His attack on veterans make him unfit to be Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. Armed Forces, and he should immediately withdraw from the race for President.' Trump focued considerable rhetorical artillery on McCain Saturday, mocking his bona fides on military and veterans issues: 'He graduated last in his class at Annapolis,' he claimed. 'Well, second-to-last.' In a press conference following his speech, Trump backtracked a few inches about prisoners of war. 'If somebody's a prisoner, I would consider him a war hero,' he said. 'But her have lots of heroes who wersn't prisoners. The billionaire's tussle with McCain began after he drew a reported 15,000 people to a campaign event in Phoenix to talk about illegal immigration. McCain, a proponent of comprehensive immigration reform, called his audience 'crazies.' Trump responded that the GOP's 2008 presidential nominee was a 'dummy.' In an emailed statement to DailyMail.com, Trump said after his press conference: 'I am not a fan John McCain because he has done so little for our Veterans and he should know better than anybody what the Veterans need, especially in regards to the VA.' 'He was extremely disrespectful to the thousands upon thousands of people, many of whom happen to be his constituents, that came to listen to me speak about illegal immigration in Phoenix last week by calling them "crazies",' Trump carped. 'These were not "crazies" – these were great American citizens.' 'I have great respect for all those who serve in our military including those that weren’t captured and are also heroes,' he insisted. Republicans auditioned all day for Christian conservatives, parading their bona fides in the nations' first presidential primary state. But not everyone searching for votes showed up. The cattle-call brought nine of the Republican Party's 15 declared presidential candidates to a single stage, less than a day after Democrats did the same thing – with all five of their White House hopefuls – a two-hour drive to the east. The Christian-right sponsoring group, The Family Leader, attracted mostly the candidates from the conservative end of the GOP spectrum. Led by political kingmaker Bob Vander Plaats, the group wields outsize influence in the Hawkeye State whenever Republicans barnstorm through during the run-up to the quadrennial Iowa caucuses. The $10 billion man was otherwise a crowd favorite in Ames, Iowa, speaking about his religion before a group of Christian conservatives Donald Trump's childhood church was First Presbyterian Church in Jamaica, Queens, New York City. He said he was in church just last week Anti-abortion politics were visible in Ames, Iowa on July 18, 2015 at the Family Leader summit, a gathering of Republican presidential candidates hosted Missing in Ames was the Republican front-runner Jeb Bush, the sometimes-moderate New Jersey governor Chris Christie and the usually moderate former New York governor George Pataki. Nowhere to be found were senators Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Rand Paul of Kentucky. Paul's libertarian brand of Republicanism, makes some religious conservatives wary. Carly Fiorina, the GOP's only female While House contestant, also didn't make the trip. Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, the day's first candidate-speaker, wrapped up his time on stage in a Q&A with pollster Frank Luntz by asking if he could read aloud from a book. 'It's a Bible,' he said, drawing wild cheers from the audience. He read from the Gospel of Luke, chapter 12, verse 48: 'From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded' – explaining it as a parable about America's global primacy and its obligations to keep its people, and the world, safe. Rubio blasted the Obama administration's recent nuclear bargain with Iran, calling it 'a complete sham.' He also castigated the president for sidestepping the role of Islam in global terror. 'It's not radical Presbyterian terrorism,' he said. 'It's radical Islamic terrorism. ... We have to target them militarily in their safe havens.' Abortion politics were visible both outside and inside the event venue in Ames, Iowa. Sign-wavers pointed to right-wing outrage over a surreptitious video that showed a Planned Parenthood medical doctor describing how she tailored her abortion procedures in order to preserve fetal body parts for human biologics companies. Outrage over an undercover video sting of Planned Parenthood brought anti-abortion Iowa Rep. Steve King kicked off the day with anger over 'that in-quotes "doctor"' whom he said was killing 'babies that could be viable outside the womb. It is sickening to watch.' Seizing on the political moment as a springboard for new laws tightening abortion restrictions, Knig said: 'This is our chance.' Also in evidence was a lingering resentment over this month's stunning Supreme Court decision legalizing same-sex weddings nationwide. 'Marriage = 1 [man] and 1 [woman],' a projected image declared above the stage as the crowd filed in, using icons to represent male and female. 
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#147. To: SOSO (#139)
I'm just "keepin' it real".
He was a military prince, son and grandson of an admiral. He partied his way through Annapolis, graduating at the very bottom of his class. He was a lousy pilot and didn't follow procedure in attack and got himself shot down by AA because of it. While ejecting, his poor adherence to training caused him to be severely injured and permanently maimed (due to lack of medical care in POW camp). If he wasn't a military prince, the Navy would probably have never let him fly, let alone fly a warplane. All that said, McCain did suffer maiming from his service, he was in POW camp a long time and didn't go home when they offered to let him go. That was the most honorable thing he did in his Navy career. It would have been easy to just quit after he'd been maimed. There are a lot of other vets that are much bigger heroes than McCain. Bob Kerrey and Bob Dole both had better much records in elite units and lost limbs, for instance. But he served and suffered so "war hero" may be the only term that fits, even if he was a lousy pilot rightly held in low regard in the military.
It's fair enough to call him a war hero. He was, and is, a jerk. But he meets the qualifications to be Senator: the majority of voters in his state vote for him in the Congressional election.
'Zactly. "He was, and is, a jerk. But he meets the qualifications to be Senator: the majority of voters in his state vote for him in the Congressional election." Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. - H. L. Mencken {or something like that} потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Agreed. The same could have been said of Benedict Arnold. In the end both betrayed America.
Lots of doublespeak, and you inconvenienced a whole bunch of electrons to say nothing. "Balanced nuance" is RINOspeak for posts like yours. SOSO the acronym, meaning: "Supporting Obama's Socialist Objectives."
Fair and balanced assessment of McCain. His gesture to remain a POW was honorable -- no doubt. THIS is what Trump should say....but then help America ask itself: "WHAT IS the definition of "heroic"? Maybe it's time for THIS discussion (especially after tranny attention-whore Bruce Jenner was described as a "hero.") Trump's words were in-artfully phrased to say the least. Yes, tactless. But then Trump has never been a PC kinda guy, which makes him uniquely refreshing. AND honest. Isn't THIS what we should be looking for in a candidate? Instead of subterfuge, PC weasel words, and total ambiguity?
Wait -- so McStain -- who is a chronic liar, disloyal party hack and traitor -- is MORE deserved of respect than Donald Trump, who dares speak the truth of the Illegal invaders, the trashing our economy, and the disasterous foreign policy -- ALL of which are enabled by the likes of one John McCain??
"Supporting Obama's Socialist Objectives." Yo, NN (for No-brian Ninny), can I have some of your meds? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
According to his RINO logic Benedict Arnold is also more deserving. And Judas was one of the 12 disciples, so you should respect him too. It's fun watch SOSO dance around, he has to be dishonest about what he's for because it's so unpopular. Obama was soft peddling his snake oil back in the day too. The guys pushing the agenda of the Davos-Doha douche-bags need to adopt a "balanced nuance" because they know that truth acts like disinfectant to the pathogens they're spreading. Strait shooters like Pat Buchanan and Donald Trump wield the truth, the weapon RINO's fear the most. Remember over in Freeperstan how the RINO's like Dane and Bayourod went into conniption fits over Buchanan editorials? Same thing with SOSO today.
Fair and balanced assessment of McCain. His gesture to remain a POW was honorable -- no doubt. THIS is what Trump should say....but then help America ask itself: "WHAT IS the definition of "heroic"? Maybe it's time for THIS discussion (especially after tranny attention-whore Bruce Jenner was described as a "hero.") Trump's words were in-artfully phrased to say the least. Yes, tactless. But then Trump has never been a PC kinda guy, which makes him uniquely refreshing. AND honest. Isn't THIS what we should be looking for in a candidate? Instead of subterfuge, PC weasel words, and total ambiguity? Liberator posted on 2015-07-20 12:25:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #154. To: SOSO, Gatlin, A K A Stone (#140) I {Soso} am not a fan of McCain. But his military service demands more respect than your Dollar Donald and his band of pied piper morons deny. Wait -- so McStain -- who is a chronic liar, disloyal party hack and traitor -- is MORE deserved of respect than Donald Trump, who dares speak the truth of the Illegal invaders, the trashing our economy, and the disasterous foreign policy -- ALL of which are enabled by the likes of one John McCain?? Liberator posted on 2015-07-20 12:29:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply You speak out of both sides of your mouth quite well. Undoubtedly you are well practiced at it. But if you cannot bring yourself to stop your duplicity yourself I will answer your question. When it comes to McCain's military service, absolutely McCain is deserving of more respect than Dollar Donald. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Absolutely. If you want aircraft carriers trashed or airplanes dumped in the ocean through incompetence, complete with elaborate cover-ups to make him look good, McCain is the man to get. No doubt about it.
Never bring a limp noodle to a gun fight, SOSO. This is why you haven't won a debate here at LF. EVER. Let's parse my post...honestly. Within honest context. Something of which you are incapable. "Fair and balanced assessment of McCain." THAT statement of mine was with respect to TC's BRUTAL assessment and succinct review of McStain's service. YOU: I spoke of McCain's "gesture to remain a POW" -- NOT his "military service" -- YOUR quote -- THIS is what YOU find yourself changing your wet panties over? HA! McStain's "military service" is a buffoonish disgrace. Trump's only "crime" is in lacking tact....IN TELLING THE UNVARNISHED TRUTH. Deal with it, RINO. John McStain -- the guy YOU defend here -- is indeed an Open Borders crusader, Illegal Invader supporter, one of the authors of outsourcing and trashing the American economy, acted as a proxy rep for 0buma in meeting with terrorists, sicced the Eye Are Ess on the Tea Party and Conservative Groups along with Carl Levin (D.) REMINDER: YOUR GUY. The guy you've been defending from Trump's MUCH deserved public beatdown is NO "hero", but a turncoat traitor to America and a lying POS.
Great points -- Judas was an Apostle; Benedict Arnold a GREAT American General. Didn't turn out well in either case, eh? By their logic, RESPECT THEM!! Because they ought to be in God's/Washington's Hall of Fame too. For "heroism." Apparently, mere military service is "heroic"; Whether you've helped create a FUBAR situation aboard the carrier Forrestal; flouted protocol because you're the big-shot son of an Admiral; OR, because screwed up your ejection in a jet of a mission you've just completely messed up, now you've broken several bones, and become a POW....and according to some here, THAT'S a "hero"?? Yes, it's RINO logic AND worship of the Military...for NO reason other than to engage in Hero Worship and bend the knee. Because at the heart of every RINO is a Groupie of Authoritah. Whether the suits of Senators, Congressmen, or Presidents; OR, the sniffing of badges or Socialist/Statist-Fascist/Papal uniforms. I'm tired of being "trained" to kneel before fake "heroes," be expected to respect and uniform-sniff without regard for deed or word or actual patriotism. Strait shooters like Pat Buchanan and Donald Trump wield the truth, the weapon RINO's fear the most. Yup. It's the TRUTH being attacked in the name of John McCain's so-called "heroism." Whether Trump OR Buchanan back in the day. At the end of the day, the RINOs, the GOPe groupies, and the Dem-lib cultists ALL worship the same thing. BONDAGE. SLAVERY. SOSO can continue to defend the defenseless -- after all, he's dug in. But it's one more LOSE-LOSE for him. Remember over in Freeperstan how the RINO's like Dane and Bayourod went into conniption fits over Buchanan editorials? Same thing with SOSO today. Ha...once upon a time, eh, my friend? THAT was a fight that JR and GOPE Freepers refused to fight. BECAUSE he was a traitor, and so too were MANY Freepers. Damage done. IF the "honor" of a traitor -- John McCain -- must be defended, we are finished. Thanks to those same fake patriots.
Lol...
LMAO. Dance, ballerina, dnace.......... потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Where was Dollar Donald during the Vietnam War? Where were you? Do you really want to match McCain's military service with DOller Donald's? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Frontrunner?? “Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
No wonder why you delusionally believe that you win every agrument, you eat, drink, breathe, belch, fart and sh*t strawmen. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
I would prefer to reserve the appellation "war hero" to those few who have done something truly heroic and have earned praise as a "war hero." This seems to be watering down the term to where conduct deserving of a good conduct award would also be deserving of some heroism or valor in combat award. "War hero" should be reserved for those few who have stood out from the rest of us who have served honorably, but without such distinction.
Leading from behind?
So sayeth the polls. Trump is number two. There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't
I was kidnapped by the local draft board and then made a prisoner in JFK's and Robert MacNamara's army. It cost me a chance for medical school. Don't start pulling that shit on me.
T.C. ---- McCain did suffer maiming from his service, he was in POW camp a long time and didn't go home when they offered to let him go. That was the most honorable thing he did in his Navy career. It would have been easy to just quit after he'd been maimed. Nolu ----- I would prefer to reserve the appellation "war hero" to those few who have done something truly heroic and have earned praise as a "war hero." This seems to be watering down the term to where conduct deserving of a good conduct award would also be deserving of some heroism or valor in combat award. "War hero" should be reserved for those few who have stood out from the rest of us who have served honorably, but without such distinction. McCain's 'heroism' derives from the fact that he didn't surrender, he was shot down, and even then, didn't quit. Other than that, I agree with Chan.. ----- Heroism and Heroes are a cut above, and McCain does not qualify.
Maybe you can post McCain's service record for his medals and lay claim to his "hero" status as a result of your detailed research. Did he get some sort of purple heart or other medals to support the contention that McCain is a "war hero?" From a personal point of view, this discussion is way too long and I havn't seen anyone authenticate his service medals or records thereof.
My hat's off to you, you served and I assume got an honorable discharge. In my book you are a hero for the sacrifice(s) you made. You could have ran to Canada and gone the med school there. I wasn't trying to pull any sh*t. I wanted to know how many of Dollar Donald's supporters actually, unlike Dollar, served in Vietnam. So please unbunch your panties. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
sneakypete sent me this to clarify the situation about McCain's alleged early release offer: This is NOT correct. He was offered early release,but Admiral Stockdale ordered him to remain in a show of group solidarity. If he had accepted the offer and left early it would have been something that even his 4 star daddy couldn't have gotten him out of. He would have been court-martialed for dereliction of duty and refusing to obey and order..
Am cut above what? Anyone that would consciously put himself in the line of fire and not run is a hero in my book. Everyone that saw combat, in whatever form, is a hero - especially the ones that were captured and didn't completely break under tremdous, if not horrendous, physical and mental torment. Perhaps I am too geneous in my sentiment but that is the way I earnestly feel. All I know is that I didn't walk in those shoes and have never been tested that way. Most of us haven't and never will be. If one is honest, who can say with any degree of certainty how they would react in those circumstances? So you, as I, are free to keep you heroes as you wish. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
The only authentication in existence is reports by assorted naval officers who had to whitewash and aggrandize the performance of a chronic screw-up to avoid displeasure from two full admirals. An Audi Murphy he wasn't.
If McCain is a "war hero" as he almost seems to claim now that he demands an apoligy from Trump, his service medals should reveal some conideration thereof.
You mean the Admiral (then Captain) that Dollar Donald doesn't like because he was captured? That Stockdale? "Recalling his 1965 capture, Stockdale told the Academy of Achievement’s Museum of Living History in Washington, D.C.: ‘As I ejected from the plane, I broke a bone in my back, but that was only the beginning. I landed in the streets of a small village. A thundering herd was coming down on me. They were going to defend the honor of their town. It was the quarterback sack of the century.’ You mean the Stockdale that didn't know how to correctly eject from his plane and broke his back? That Stockdale? You mean the Stockwell that supported McCain? "Stockdale’s survival was fortunate for the other POWs, who would continue to rely on him as a role model and a leadership figure. One of those POWs was future Senator John McCain, the son of Admiral John McCain II, commander in chief of the U.S. Pacific Command during the Vietnam War. McCain’s own POW ordeal began on October 23, 1967, when he landed in the middle of Truc Bach Lake in downtown Hanoi, after a Soviet SAM took the right wing off his Skyhawk bomber. McCain, whose cell at Hoa Lo was two doors down from Stockdale’s, recently recalled: ‘Jim inspired us to do things we never believed we were capable of. Without him, I certainly wouldn’t have made it out of the prison with my honor intact.’ Many years later, McCain got additional support from Stockdale as the former was campaigning for the Republican Party nomination for president during the 2000 campaign. That Stockwell? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Me too. But we don't have a category like "patriot martyr" or "war victim" so we just call them all war heroes. I get Trump's point. A hero is the guy who makes our enemies die for their country because that saves the most lives of our own military by making wars shorter and victorious. I recall Bob Dole and Bob Kerrey, both maimed. But they were members of elite units, Doe in elite mountain troops in Italy and Kerrey in the SEALs. So they were real fighting men that saw combat many times. McCain was such a lousy pilot that he got himself shot down in short order over Vietnam. It isn't fair to say that all three were equally "war heroes" when the other two were much better fighting men than McCain was and both were more maimed in their service than McCain is.
You mean like Stockdale? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Maybe America needs a "war hero" and as a result of not so many in contemporary tymes, there is a psychological backlash about Trump's publick expressions concerning McCain. If there wasn't any merit about Tump's suggestions, there would be little controversy. So, Trump struck a sensitive nerve, resonnating in America. That is two for two, btw.
Exactly how was Kerry maimed a la Dole, Stockdale or even McCain? "It was not at all unusual that injuries meriting the award of a Purple Heart might not be serious enough to require time off from duty. Kerry felt in his arm had been caused by a piece of shrapnel, a wound for which he was awarded a Purple Heart. The injury was not serious — Brinkley notes that Kerry went on a regular Swift boat patrol the next day with a bandage on his arm, and the Boston Globe quoted William Schachte, who oversaw the mission and went on to become a rear admiral, as recalling that "It was not a very serious wound at all." Kerry earned his second Purple Heart while returning from a PCF mission up the Bo De River on 20 February 1969:...........Brinkley noted that, as in the previous case, "Kerry's wound was not serious enough to require time off from duty." Kerry was injured yet again on 13 March 1969, in an action for which he was awarded both a Bronze Star and his third Purple Heart.......... According to the Boston Globe, this was the only one of Kerry's three Purple Heart injuries that caused him to miss any days of service: Back in 1969, Navy regulations specified that any soldier wounded in combat three times be automatically reassigned away from a combat zone to an assignment of his choosing (unless the thrice-wounded soldier specifically requested to stay). Four days after Kerry took his third hit of shrapnel, Commodore Charles F. Horne, an administrative official and commander of the coastal squadron in which Kerry served, forwarded a request on Kerry's behalf to the Navy Bureau of Personnel asking that Kerry be reassigned to "duty as a personal aide in Boston, New York, or Washington, D.C." Soon afterwards Kerry was transferred to Cam Ranh Bay to await further orders, and within a month he had been reassigned as a personal aide and flag lieutenant to Rear Admiral Walter F.Schlech, Jr. with the Military Sea Transportation Service based in Brooklyn, New York. Kerry served with Admiral Schlech until the end of 1969, when he requested an early discharge from the Navy in order to run for a Massachusetts congressional seat. Admiral Schlech approved the request, and on 3 January 1970 Kerry received an honorable discharge, six months early. I give Kerry credit for putting himself in harms way, more than once. But maimed as a result of that? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Maybe America needs a "war hero" and as a result of not so many in contemporary tymes, there is a psychological backlash about Trump's publick expressions concerning McCain. If there wasn't any merit about Tump's suggestions, there would be little controversy. So, Trump struck a sensitive nerve, resonnating in America. That is two for two, btw. You mean the nerve that's resulting in a backlash on Trump? Like the Wizard Paul, Trump has his share of mindless followers, true believers worthy of the Pied Piper, aka Donald Dollar. Like the Wizard Paul Dollar Donald will run as a 3rd Party candidate. The fix is in with the Clintons. I hope you enjoy the following 8 years of Empress Hillary that Trump will hand her. A fitting succesor to Emperor Obama. Yep, that's two for two alright. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
I said "Bob Kerrey". Not Lurch. Kerrey's MOH citation: And Kerrey did lose that injured lower leg as a result. In a nod to Trump's point about McCain, this is a lot more heroic stuff. Scaling a 350' sheer cliff at night, risking discovery from elite enemy bodyguards around local Commie honchos? Classic SEAL derring-do. I don't like Bob Kerrey or John Kerry. But both had much better records as fighting men than McCain. Look back at the classic example of an American war hero: Audie Murphy. He was a real war hero.
That can be said about all of the candidates running. Si vis pacem, para bellum
I can post the commendations for the awards, but his record may have received positive influence from having his father and grandfather both be admirals while he was on active duty. That can also influence action, or inaction, on misdeeds. I am not saying I have knowledge of any such happenings in McCain's specific case, but the Navy old boy network was well known. Anyway, he has a chest full of awards.
Bob Kerry yes, but John was simply in the john. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
Comments (187 - 201) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestWell, when you put it that way, tnaks for admitting that you too are a jerk.
#148. To: Gatlin, SOSO (#146)
McCain is no hero.
#149. To: TooConservative (#148)
#150. To: Vicomte13, TooConservative, Gatlin (#149)
It's fair enough to call him a war hero.
#151. To: Vicomte13 (#149)
It's fair enough to call him a war hero.
#152. To: SOSO, A K A Stone (#142)
Who does SOSO support?
#153. To: TooConservative (#148)
#154. To: SOSO, Gatlin, A K A Stone (#140)
I am not a fan of McCain. But his military service demands more respect than your Dollar Donald and his band of pied piper morons deny.
#155. To: nativist nationalist (#152)
SOSO the acronym, meaning:
#156. To: Liberator (#154)
Wait -- so McStain -- who is a chronic liar, disloyal party hack and traitor -- is MORE deserved of respect than Donald Trump, who dares speak the truth of the Illegal invaders, the trashing our economy, and the disasterous foreign policy -- ALL of which are enabled by the likes of one John McCain??
#157. To: Liberator, TooConservative, Gatlin, A K A Stone (#154)
#153. To: TooConservative (#148)
#158. To: SOSO (#157)
(Edited)
When it comes to McCain's military service, absolutely McCain is deserving of more respect than Dollar Donald.
#159. To: SOSO, TooConservative, Gatlin, A K A Stone, nativist nationalist (#157)
#153. To: TooConservative (#148)
Me: "His gesture to remain a POW was honorable -- no doubt. THIS is what Trump should say...."
"[McStain's] military service demands more respect than your Dollar Donald..."
#160. To: nativist nationalist, SOSO (#156)
According to his RINO logic Benedict Arnold is also more deserving. And Judas was one of the 12 disciples, so you should respect him too. It's fun watch SOSO dance around, he has to be dishonest about what he's for because it's so unpopular.
#161. To: rlk (#158)
#162. To: Liberator, TooConservative, Gatlin, A K A Stone, nativist nationalist (#159)
I spoke of McCain's "gesture to remain a POW" -- NOT his "military service"
#163. To: rlk, TooConservative, Gatlin, A K A Stone, nativist nationalist, Liberator (#158)
When it comes to McCain's military service, absolutely McCain is deserving of more respect than Dollar Donald.
#164. To: cranky (#0)
Missing in Ames was the Republican front-runner Jeb Bush
#165. To: Liberator, nativist nationalist, Gatlin, TooConservative, A K A Stone (#160)
Great points -- Judas was an Apostle; Benedict Arnold a GREAT American General. Didn't turn out well in either case, eh? By their logic, RESPECT THEM!! Because they ought to be in God's/Washington's Hall of Fame too. For "heroism."
#166. To: TooConservative, Gatlin, SOSO (#148)
But he served and suffered so "war hero" may be the only term that fits
#167. To: CZ82, carnky (#164)
Frontrunner??
#168. To: CZ82 (#164)
Frontrunner??
#169. To: SOSO (#163)
Where were you?
#170. To: nolu chan, Y'ALL (#166)
Gatlin, (#146) ---- McCain is no hero.
#171. To: nolu chan (#166)
#172. To: rlk (#169)
I was kidnapped by the local draft board and then made a prisoner in JFK's and Robert MacNamara's army. It cost me a chance for medical school. Don't start pulling that shit on me.
#173. To: TooConservative, Gatlin, SOSO, sneakypete, hondo68, cranky (#148)
All that said, McCain did suffer maiming from his service, he was in POW camp a long time and didn't go home when they offered to let him go. That was the most honorable thing he did in his Navy career. It would have been easy to just quit after he'd been maimed.
Fred,I keep seeing people on LF making the claim that McLunatic was offered early freedom from the POW camp in Hanoi,but refused.
#174. To: tpaine (#170)
Heroism and Heroes are a cut above,
#175. To: buckeroo (#171)
(Edited)
From a personal point of view, this discussion is way too long and I havn't seen anyone authenticate his service medals or records thereof.
#176. To: rlk (#175)
#177. To: Fred Mertz, TooConservative, Gatlin, sneakypete, hondo68, cranky (#173)
Admiral Stockdale
#178. To: nolu chan (#166)
I would prefer to reserve the appellation "war hero" to those few who have done something truly heroic and have earned praise as a "war hero." This seems to be watering down the term to where conduct deserving of a good conduct award would also be deserving of some heroism or valor in combat award.
#179. To: TooConservative, nolu chan (#178)
McCain was such a lousy pilot that he got himself shot down in short order over Vietnam.
#180. To: SOSO (#179)
#181. To: TooConservative (#178)
#182. To: buckeroo (#180)
#183. To: SOSO, Liberator, GarySpFc (#181)
(Edited)
Exactly how was Kerry maimed a la Dole, Stockdale or even McCain?
For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as a SEAL team leader during action against enemy aggressor (Viet Cong) forces. Acting in response to reliable intelligence, Lt. (j.g.) Kerrey led his SEAL team on a mission to capture important members of the enemy's area political cadre known to be located on an island in the bay of Nha Trang. In order to surprise the enemy, he and his team scaled a 350-foot sheer cliff to place themselves above the ledge on which the enemy was located. Splitting his team in 2 elements and coordinating both, Lt. (jg.) Kerrey led his men in the treacherous downward descent to the enemy's camp. Just as they neared the end of their descent, intense enemy fire was directed at them, and Lt. (jg.) Kerrey received massive injuries from a grenade that exploded at his feet and threw him backward onto the jagged rocks. Although bleeding profusely and suffering great pain, he displayed outstanding courage and presence of mind in immediately directing his element's fire into the heart of the enemy camp. Utilizing his radio, Lt. (jg.) Kerrey called in the second element's fire support, which caught the confused Viet Cong in a devastating crossfire. After successfully suppressing the enemy's fire, and although immobilized by his multiple wounds, he continued to maintain calm, superlative control as he ordered his team to secure and defend an extraction site. Lt. (jg.) Kerrey resolutely directed his men, despite his near unconscious state, until he was eventually evacuated by helicopter. The havoc brought to the enemy by this very successful mission cannot be over-estimated. The enemy soldiers who were captured provided critical intelligence to the allied effort. Lt. (jg.) Kerrey's courageous and inspiring leadership, valiant fighting spirit, and tenacious devotion to duty in the face of almost overwhelming opposition sustain and enhance the finest traditions of the U.S. Naval Service.
#184. To: SOSO (#182)
" Trump has his share of mindless followers, true believers worthy of the Pied Piper "
#185. To: buckeroo (#171)
Maybe you can post McCain's service record for his medals and lay claim to his "hero" status as a result of your detailed research. Did he get some sort of purple heart or other medals to support the contention that McCain is a "war hero?"
#186. To: TooConservative (#183)
I don't like Bob Kerrey or John Kerry. But both had much better records as fighting men than McCain.
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