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Title: EU demands Britain joins Greek rescue fund
Source: UK Telegraph
URL Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ ... n-joins-Greek-rescue-fund.html
Published: Jul 14, 2015
Author: Matthew Holehouse
Post Date: 2015-07-14 08:48:18 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 1307
Comments: 26

Jean-Claude Juncker, European Commission president, discards David Cameron's deal that spares Britain from Eurozone bailouts

Britain will be liable for close to £1 billion of emergency loans to Greece, it can be revealed, after Jean-Claude Juncker tore up a “black and white” deal to protect UK taxpayers from Eurozone bailouts.

George Osborne, the Chancellor, today attempted to fight off a proposal to raid the EU budget to save Greek banks from financial collapse.

Under a plan drawn up in the small hours of Sunday night as leaders wrestled to save Greece from economic collapse, Mr Juncker, the president of the European Commission, wants to revive a mothballed bailout fund. It will use the EU budget as collateral against 8.6 billion euros of short-term bridging loans to Greece.

The proposal tosses aside a written agreement between David Cameron and his counterparts that stated British taxpayers would never again be exposed to Eurozone bailouts.

Mr Cameron subsequently assured the House of Commons that Britain be exempt from bailouts, and he has repeatedly used the deal as proof that he can radically renegotiate Britain’s membership with the EU.

Indeed, the 2015 Conservative manifesto boasts: “We took Britain out of Eurozone bailouts, including for Greece – the first ever return of powers from Brussels.”

EU officials this morning said that deal – arguably Mr Cameron’s greatest diplomatic coup in Europe to date – had been assessed by lawyers as nothing more than a “political” accord with no legal force.

Mr Cameron fought a bitter and lonely battle to block the appointment of Mr Juncker, the former Prime Minister of Luxembourg.

The episode will fuel concerns among Eurosceptics that the Commission will not be an honest broker during the renegotiation of British membership of the EU. It will add to demands for full treaty change before polling day – rather than a simply protocol promising future reform.

Mr Obsorne this afternoon rang his counterparts to say the plan was a "non-starter", ahead of a meeting in Brussels on Tuesday at which he could, in theory, be out-voted.

A Treasury source said: "Our Eurozone colleagues have received the message loud and clear that it would not be acceptable for this issue of British support for Eurozone bailouts to be revisited.

"The idea that British taxpayers’ money is going to be on the line in this latest Greek deal is a non-starter."

At breakfast this morning Alexis Tsipras, the Greek premier, capitulated to German demands for a gruelling package of austerity measures in exchange for a third bailout worth more than 86 billion euros. The cash will come from the European Stability Mechanism (ESM), a rescue fund backed by other Eurozone states set up in October 2012.

However, it will may be weeks before the cash is available because the package must be signed off by half a dozen European parliaments.

In the meantime, Greece must find 12 billion euros to service its debts by the end of August, or suffer a catastrophic banking collapse. It includes a vital 4.2 billion euros to repay the European Central Bank on Monday.

To cover these short-term costs, Mr Juncker wants to revive the European Financial Stabilisation Mechanism (EFSM), a loans facility used to rescue Ireland and Portugal early in the Eurozone crisis. It works by borrowing money on the international markets, using the EU’s own budget as collateral, and can release billions with the nod of of EU finance ministers.

Britain pays around 14 per cent of the EU budget – meaning that lending Greece 8.6 billion euros would leave UK taxpayers exposed to the tune of around £850 million. The risk of default is high.

Yet Mr Cameron secured a binding written agreement with his counterparts at a Brussels summit in December 2010, explicitly prohibiting such a deal.

In exchange for British consent to treaty change to create the ESM, the text of the deal stated that the EFSM would not be used again to bailout Eurozone members.

Mr Cameron told the House of Commons: “Both the Council conclusions and the decision that introduces the treaty change state in black and white the clear and unanimous agreement that from 2013 Britain will not be dragged into bailing out the eurozone.

“Britain is not in the euro and we are not going to join the euro, and that is why we should not have any liability for bailing out the Eurozone when the new permanent arrangements come into effect in 2013.”

In 2011, Mr Cameron fought and won to prevent the EFSM from being used to bailout Greece, even before the new deal came into force.

“I wanted to seek assurances at this European Council that Britain won’t be called upon to do that,” he said at the time. “I sought those assurances, I have received those assurances. Nevertheless I will continue to be vigilant on this issue.”

Jeroen Dijsselbloem, the Dutch chief of the Eurogroup, on Monday confirmed publicly that a bailout “involving all member states” will be considered by a meeting of EU finance ministers.

Britain has no veto, with approval instead requiring the consent of 85 per cent of states, weighted for population - presenting the risk that Mr Osborne could, in theory, be out-voted by his colleagues.

Asked about the British deal, a senior EU official said: “The council decision is a political agreement, and it can be argued that it does not prevent the activation of mechanism.”

A Downing Street spokesman said: "Leaders from across the EU agreed in 2010 that the EFSM would not be used again for those Euro area, and that remains the Prime Minister's view. We have not received a proposal and one is not on the table."

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#1. To: cranky (#0)

The Commissioner is right. The European Council can essentially vote to do anything, with 85% member approval. Britain can be outvoted.

Doesn't mean it will happen, of course. There is more than one state in Europe unhappy with the Greek bailout, and the British may be able to woo them.

Also Denmark and Sweden are not in the Euro either, and one or the other might not agree to let the EU budget be posted as collateral to Greek debt.

On the other hand, if the only way to get a deal to avoid disaster is to do this, and Britain is the sole holdout, the rest of Europe may force the issue.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-14   9:34:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: cranky, Vicomte13 (#0)

In the meantime, Greece must find 12 billion euros to service its debts by the end of August, or suffer a catastrophic banking collapse. It includes a vital 4.2 billion euros to repay the European Central Bank on Monday.

Given Greece is on full life-support and fading already, this seems like a suspiciously long window of vulnerability to me.

Perhaps Germany and the other major EU players are going to let Greece strangle to force their collapse without having to take such action directly by denying economic relief. This would serve multiple purposes: the EU would still have the power to cut deals with the other PIIGS who aren't terminal on debt but they would demonstrate they can and will drive a deadbeat EU government out of the euro if they won't accept the diktats of the unelected Brussels elite.

I recall the old phrase, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-07-14   9:59:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

The European Council can essentially vote to do anything, with 85% member approval.

Or as the 'senior EU official' put it: “The council decision is a political agreement, and it can be argued that it does not prevent the activation of mechanism.”

There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't

cranky  posted on  2015-07-14   10:00:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: TooConservative (#2)

Perhaps Germany and the other major EU players are going to let Greece strangle to force their collapse without having to take such action directly by denying economic relief.

Perhaps.

But I'm starting to think this deal was specifically structured to force the Greeks to reject it or surrender the sovereignty (by way of the 'asset sale').

And as an added benefit, send a warning to the other PIIGS.

There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't

cranky  posted on  2015-07-14   10:07:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: cranky (#4)

And as an added benefit,...

No doubt, this is a deal with implications much larger than just little Greece. It's about central EU power, southern EU insolvency, Germany as the central banker of the system, secessionist elements.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-07-14   10:17:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: TooConservative, cranky, Vicomte13 (#2)

I recall the old phrase, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

The phrase that comes to my mind is that there is no honor among thieves. It appears that no agreement, including the U.S. Consitution, is owrth the paper it is written on. This is the NWO not the BS being spouted about that.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-14   12:33:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: SOSO (#6)

It appears that no agreement, including the U.S. Consitution, is owrth the paper it is written on.

Nor is a referendum that carries 61% to 39%.

I don't see how Syriza stays in power after this reversal.

There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't

cranky  posted on  2015-07-14   12:38:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: cranky (#7)

I don't see how Syriza stays in power after this reversal.

The same way Obama did in 2012.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-14   12:40:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: SOSO (#8)

The same way Obama did in 2012.

Greeks are smarter than our resident liberals and hyphenated Americans.

We'll see how long Syriza lasts. Tsipras is already a dead man walking, politically, imho.

There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't

cranky  posted on  2015-07-14   12:55:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: cranky (#9)

Greeks are smarter than our resident liberals and hyphenated Americans.

Indeed, they got the EU to fund their retirement at 50 years old and all of their other socialist welfare policies. Way to go Greeks!!!!!

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-14   13:01:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: SOSO, cranky (#10)

Greeks are smarter than our resident liberals and hyphenated Americans.

Indeed, they got the EU to fund their retirement at 50 years old and all of their other socialist welfare policies. Way to go Greeks!!!!!

I looked it up on Snopes - turns out it is internet BS. The retirement age can be around 50 for some military and police/uniformed services - same as the USA and most of the world.

Pericles  posted on  2015-07-14   13:21:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: cranky (#7)

It appears that no agreement, including the U.S. Consitution, is owrth the paper it is written on.

Nor is a referendum that carries 61% to 39%.

I don't see how Syriza stays in power after this reversal.

I thought plan B was to go and print the drachma again but it appears to have been a bluff. From what I understand, SYRIZA rose up as some sort of protest vote and claimed to have the answers and be an alternative but they had nothing but rhetoric. The last Greek conservative govt was actually making progress and showing a tax surplus and it grew the economy.

Pericles  posted on  2015-07-14   13:24:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: TooConservative (#5) (Edited)

No doubt, this is a deal with implications much larger than just little Greece. It's about central EU power, southern EU insolvency, Germany as the central banker of the system, secessionist elements.

The Euro was built on a loan and credit system with the idea being that the Euro members have to be a 3% out of budget.

I don't think this makes EU stronger (like Germany will take over and make some sort of empire) - I think this is the beginning of the end of the EU.

Hell, in 50 years we may see European coalition troops and Russia occupy Berlin again.

Pericles  posted on  2015-07-14   13:27:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Pericles (#11)

The retirement age can be around 50 for some military and police/uniformed services - same as the USA and most of the world.

OK, Greek philosopher, what is the normal retirement age in Greece. HINT: It was 55 until it was changed in 1959 to 57. And yes, the Greeks have been living on OPM to fund their retirement and all other socialist welfare programs. But that is exactly what you leftist deem to be a noble social goal, i.e. - having other people pay you way.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-14   13:29:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: SOSO (#14) (Edited)

OK, Greek philosopher, what is the normal retirement age in Greece. HINT: It was 55 until it was changed in 1959 to 57.

I have no idea what the retirement was in 1957 (or if your source is valid) - but let us pretend it is and if so then I can make an educated guess - Greece suffered more civilian dead in WW2 per capita than any European nation except the USSR and then a bloody civil war in the 1950s. So life expectancy may have been kind of short for Greeks back then.

But on to today:

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/reasons-greece-economic-crisis/story?id=32130617

In 2013, Greece's retirement age was raised by two years to 67. According to government data, however, the average Greek man retires at 63 and the average woman at 59.

And some police and military workers have retired as early as age 40 or 45, Tsoukas said.

There are also unique benefits for some workers. Female employees of state-owned banks with children under 18 could retire as early 43, he said.

"These kinds of exemptions were made -- particularly young mothers with young children who were able to take advantage of this and work 15 or 20 years for a reduced pension," he said.

Pericles  posted on  2015-07-14   13:33:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Pericles (#15)

In 2013, Greece's retirement age was raised by two years to 67.

To take effect in 2015. You are either a piss poor fact checker or just a plainly disingenuous shill. AND it was only increased because the EU dupes seemed to had enough of being Greece's financial stooges.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-14   13:45:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Pericles (#11)

I looked it up on Snopes - turns out it is internet BS. The retirement age can be around 50 for some military and police/uniformed services - same as the USA and most of the world.

Whatever you say.

In Greece, A Hairdresser Can Retire At 50 With Full Benefits

There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't

cranky  posted on  2015-07-14   13:50:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: SOSO (#16)

In 2013, Greece's retirement age was raised by two years to 67.

To take effect in 2015. You are either a piss poor fact checker or just a plainly disingenuous shill. AND it was only increased because the EU dupes seemed to had enough of being Greece's financial stooges.

Listen, dick, you mentioned 1957. Before 2013 retirement was 65 - can't you fucking read English? Now it is 67 years old. Show me where it was below 65 before 2013 - can you? Or do you make up facts?

Pericles  posted on  2015-07-14   16:05:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: cranky (#17)

Greece has promised early retirement to about 700,000 employees, or 14 percent of its work force, giving it an average retirement age of 61, one of the lowest in Europe.

That is from the NYT article. And that was in 2010. Still not the case that the majority can retire at 50 years old.

Pericles  posted on  2015-07-14   16:08:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Pericles (#19)

Still not the case that the majority can retire at 50 years old.

You stick to snopes and wiki.

I'll stick to my sources.

There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't

cranky  posted on  2015-07-14   16:40:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: cranky (#20) (Edited)

Still not the case that the majority can retire at 50 years old. You stick to snopes and wiki.

I'll stick to my sources.

I USED YOUR SOURCE - the original blogger only picked one sentence - the link to the NYTimes article is below his post regarding the hairdresser.

Pericles  posted on  2015-07-14   16:44:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

You know what is kind of funny? So many so called American so called conservatives will still call the EU and Germany "socialist" even though they are making the Greeks sell off govt assets and privatize their holdings.

Pericles  posted on  2015-07-14   16:46:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Pericles (#21)

I USED YOUR SOURCE

My sources include but are not limited to: Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, George Symeonidis, Platon Tinios, Szu Ping Chan, et al.

With the possible exception of EAP, I doubt you've ever read any of them.

There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't

cranky  posted on  2015-07-14   19:25:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Pericles (#18)

Yo, sh*t for berains, the only reason Greece increased it retirement age was becuase the dupes in the EU got tired of subsidizing Greek retirements at below other Euro countries age."

"To the {EU} lenders, the pension system is still too generous compared with what the country can afford. Greece spent 17.5 percent of its economic output on pension payments, more than any other EU country, according to the latest available Eurostat figures from 2012.

{And}Despite years of reforms, many Greeks can still retire early, especially workers in the public sector and professions classified as hazardous such as the army."

So take your commie philosophy and leftist propaganda and shove them where the sun don't shine.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-14   21:27:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: SOSO (#24)

You got caught in a lie at worst and an exaggeration at best. Be less slipshod.

Pericles  posted on  2015-07-14   21:29:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Pericles (#25)

You got caught in a lie at worst and an exaggeration at best.

Absolutely not. My point was and still is that the Greeks have mooched off OPM for years and years and it was only when the dupes in the EU finanlly realized how big of saps they are and threaten to cut Greece's life blood did Greece do anything at all to bring its retirement system into line with its neighbors....and let's not even discuss into line with what its economy can afford. But you continue to spout your progessive socialist philosphy and continue to advocate more of the same for Geece and other countries that may wish to emmulate Greece.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-14   21:48:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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