[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

Why will Kamala Harris resign from her occupancy of the Office of Vice President of the USA? Scroll down for records/details Secret Negotiations! Jill Biden’s Demands for $2B Library, Legal Immunity, and $100M Book Deal to Protect Biden Family Before Joe’s Exit AI is exhausting the power grid. Tech firms are seeking a miracle solution. Rare Van Halen Leicestershire, Donnington Park August 18, 1984 Valerie Bertinelli Cameo If you need a Good Opening for black, use this. "Arrogant Hunter Biden has never been held accountable — until now" How Republicans in Key Senate Races Are Flip-Flopping on Abortion Idaho bar sparks fury for declaring June 'Heterosexual Awesomeness Month' and giving free beers and 15% discounts to straight men Son of Buc-ee’s co-owner indicted for filming guests in the shower and having sex. He says the law makes it OK. South Africa warns US could be liable for ICC prosecution for supporting Israel Today I turned 50! San Diego Police officer resigns after getting locked in the backseat with female detainee Gazan Refugee Warns the World about Hamas Iranian stabbed for sharing his faith, miraculously made it across the border without a passport! Protest and Clashes outside Trump's Bronx Rally in Crotona Park Netanyahu Issues Warning To US Leaders Over ICC Arrest Warrants: 'You're Next' Will it ever end? Did Pope Francis Just Call Jesus a Liar? Climate: The Movie (The Cold Truth) Updated 4K version There can never be peace on Earth for as long as Islamic Sharia exists The Victims of Benny Hinn: 30 Years of Spiritual Deception. Trump Is Planning to Send Kill Teams to Mexico to Take Out Cartel Leaders The Great Falling Away in the Church is Here | Tim Dilena How Ridiculous? Blade-Less Swiss Army Knife Debuts As Weapon Laws Tighten Jewish students beaten with sticks at University of Amsterdam Terrorists shut down Park Avenue. Police begin arresting democrats outside Met Gala. The minute the total solar eclipse appeared over US Three Types Of People To Mark And Avoid In The Church Today Are The 4 Horsemen Of The Apocalypse About To Appear? France sends combat troops to Ukraine battlefront Facts you may not have heard about Muslims in England. George Washington University raises the Hamas flag. American Flag has been removed. Alabama students chant Take A Shower to the Hamas terrorists on campus. In Day of the Lord, 24 Church Elders with Crowns Join Jesus in His Throne In Day of the Lord, 24 Church Elders with Crowns Join Jesus in His Throne Deadly Saltwater and Deadly Fresh Water to Increase Deadly Cancers to soon Become Thing of the Past? Plague of deadly New Diseases Continues [FULL VIDEO] Police release bodycam footage of Monroe County District Attorney Sandra Doorley traffi Police clash with pro-Palestine protesters on Ohio State University campus Joe Rogan Experience #2138 - Tucker Carlson Police Dispersing Student Protesters at USC - Breaking News Coverage (College Protests) What Passover Means For The New Testament Believer Are We Closer Than Ever To The Next Pandemic? War in Ukraine Turns on Russia what happened during total solar eclipse Israel Attacks Iran, Report Says - LIVE Breaking News Coverage Earth is Scorched with Heat Antiwar Activists Chant ‘Death to America’ at Event Featuring Chicago Alderman Status: Not Logged In; Sign In International News See other International News Articles Title: Greece news live: Greeks capitulate to austerity and external monitoring after 17 hours of late night talks end in 'a-Greek-ment' Source: UK Telegraph URL Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ ... hours-of-late-night-talks.html Published: Jul 13, 2015 Author: Mehreen Khan and Ben Wright Post Date: 2015-07-13 07:47:34 by cranky Keywords: None Views: 2776 Comments: 63 Analysis and reaction of the deal as Greek agreement is reached at last following 17 hours of tense negotiations among eurozone leaders and ministers Latest 12.32 Why the Greeks have blinked My colleague Szu Chan has laid out what exactly creditors are demanding from the Greeks. Key points below: IMF involvement PM Tsipras said he didn't want the Fund to be involved in a new rescue after their involvement is set to end in March 2016. However, any new rescue loan from the ESM requires legal involvement from the Fund. Thus: "Greece will request continued IMF support (monitoring and financing) from March 2016." Sequestration of assets This is a new demand that emerged from finance ministers yesterday. It would involve €50bn of Greek assets placed in a private fund and used to pay off their debts. Mr Tsipras objected to it being placed in Luxembourg or controlled by a German state-owned bank. The fund will now be managed by the Greeks. Some of the money will also be used for growth initiatives and to recapitalise Greek banks. The initial purpose of the fund was solely to pay down their loans. Debt relief This one's the rub. Greeks want a clear promise to alleviate their debt burden as part of any new rescue. Last night's statement provides only a commitment to think about it should the Greeks manage to first get through all the legislative hurdles they face by Wednesday. The text reads: "the Eurogroup stands ready to consider, if necessary, possible additional measures (possible longer grace and payment periods) aiming at ensuring that gross financing needs remain at a sustainable level." 12.04 Tsipras: we avoided plan for "financial suffocation" The Greek PM has this morning defended last night's basis for an agreement, arguing that he managed to resist measures that would have led to a collapse of the banking system. "We found ourselves before difficult decisions, tough dilemmas. We took the responsibility of the decision in order to avert the implementation of the more extreme aims (of) the more extreme conservative circles in the European Union." He says Greece managed to resist a request that Greece transfer public assets abroad as well as a "plan of financial suffocation and the collapse of the banking system," which he said had been "planned down to its last detail recently" and had already started to be implemented. The PM is due to meet with his junior coalition partner and defence minister later this evening. Click for Full Text! Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 60. #1. To: cranky (#0) This is Russia's moment, should Russia choose to seize it. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-13   8:39:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #4. To: Vicomte13 (#1) This is Russia's moment, should Russia choose to seize it. Greece is on he hook for some 315 billion euros (down from 360 euros in 2012). I'm note sure Putin has the money to throw at Greece especially since it would never be repaid. cranky  posted on  2015-07-13   10:19:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: cranky, Vicomte13 (#4) Greece is on he hook for some 315 billion euros (down from 360 euros in 2012). Per pagan, Jewish, Christian and Muslim law, Greece is only on the hook for the principal not the interest on the loan. Interest was viewed as evil by every religion I have ever studied. Pericles  posted on  2015-07-13   11:04:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: Pericles, cranky, Vicomte13, redleghunter (#5) Interest was viewed as evil by every religion I have ever studied. Well then, try borrowing money from the Vatican. SOSO  posted on  2015-07-13   12:34:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #12. To: SOSO, Pericles, APole, cranky, Vicomte13, redleghunter (#9) (Pericles: "Interest was viewed as evil by every religion I have ever studied.") Well then, try borrowing money from the Vatican. Oh, that's gonna leave a mark. Yes, maybe that famous Marxist humanitarian and anti-capitalist lecturer -- Pope Franko -- will authorize the HUGE Vatican vault to the Vatican Bank and "kinda, sorta help spread the wealth around." The vast Vatican holdings of gazillions in unknown massive quantities of cash, baubles, art, and real estate are just sitting there...collecting interest and appreciating in this capitalist world. Fancy that! So let's all expect that Greece (as well as the rest of the world's poor and poverty-stricken people) will be able to dine their next meal (instead of catching it with a fly-swatter or mouse-trap.) We can expect this because this lecturing, chastising Pope (as "Vicar of Christ") is compelled to emulate the charity and generosity Christ, while the Vatican is the so-called "center of "Christ's Church"... NOT. NOT. NOT. Liberator  posted on  2015-07-13   13:00:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: Liberator (#12) Yes, maybe that famous Marxist humanitarian and anti-capitalist lecturer -- Pope Franko -- will authorize the HUGE Vatican vault to the Vatican Bank and "kinda, sorta help spread the wealth around." The vast Vatican holdings of gazillions in unknown massive quantities of cash, baubles, art, and real estate are just sitting there...collecting interest and appreciating in this capitalist world. Good idea, and very fitting since the bulk of the wealth came from slave labor in the Americas. The Marxist Pope can return the fruits of labor stolen under the encomienda system to the descendants of those who performed the forced labor. The Pope's followers love to point out the speck of sawdust in Protestant eyes (although strangely silent on the subject of Congregationalist slave ship owners) while having a huge log in their own eye, the Vatican's store of stolen wealth resulting from slave labor. Followers of Francis, do not be like the Pharisees boasting in the temple of how righteous they were. Don't talk the talk, walk the walk. Return your Church's stolen wealth to those it was stolen from. nativist nationalist  posted on  2015-07-13   13:24:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: nativist nationalist (#17) Followers of Francis, do not be like the Pharisees boasting in the temple of how righteous they were. Don't talk the talk, walk the walk. Return your Church's stolen wealth to those it was stolen from. I don't have the power to divest the Catholic Church of its assets. If I did, I would methodically sell off the vast real estate holdings of the Church, sell the art treasures to museums, to the extent they could be so sold, and convert vast, cavernous religious buildings into places of residence, food, showers and health clincs for people. There would be no such thing as a Catholic homeless person, because the Church would house the Catholic poor, and other poor as well, in those assets that it did not sell. All around the world. Cash and securities endowments, and all other accumulations of wealth, plus the capital raised by the sale of these assets, would go first to stabilize and regularize the church on its smaller footprint, to make sure that all of these churches-cum-residences were in repair, etc. And the rest would be dedicated to systematically rescuing Catholics throughout the world - all of those poor slave girls in Filipino and Latin American brothels, for instance, and all of those mothers teetering on the brink of abortion. The Middle Eastern Christians and Sudanese who need to get out of there, Catholics facing oppression in various African countries. There is a world full of flesh and blood Christians who need help RIGHT NOW. Jesus and the Apostles ate with people directly, and provided direct aid. They didn't raise money to build fixed structures for worship, to fill up with statues and paintings. The Church grew by having the MESSAGE, not stunning art and impressive buildings. The impressive buildings are a drain now that they're empty, and all of the holdings are a distraction. People look at all of that worldly wealth, and they ask why it is not dedicated, instead to the poor. And they're right. It ought to be. There are always excuses, but those excuses are not acceptable. They always come down to the Right Hand knowing what the Left is doing, and that is not the way that Jesus said to be. So, that's what I would do with all of that money, if I were the head of the Church and had the power to sell off the assets and end the scandal of the vast accumulation of wealth. But I don't. And so once again, as with the city of my birth, and the state, and the county, and the military in which I served, and the various businesses for which I have worked in the past, I find myself in an organization that has stated ideals I accept and agree with, but whose men always make immoral shortcuts, and do the wrong thing, and build edifices on foundations of sand, and monuments with feet of clay. I agree, don't talk the talk, walk the walk. However, what can I do about the Catholic Church's errors. No more than I can do anything about the errors of the United States, or the State of Michigan or Connecticut, or the Cities of Detroit or New York, or the Navy. All I can do is point out the weakness and sin and say what OUGHT to be done. The only realm that I control is my own flesh and my family, and I do not completely control even those. I cannot choose my next breath, and God can turn off my heartbeat any time he wants. I can lead and admonish my wife and child, but I cannot FORCE them to agree. So, what is left to any man, in a world where he himself is fallible (and has failed), where those closest to him are fallible (and have failed)? To walk away from all other people to live in a tent in the desert? What would that do? It would do gteater evil, for family depend on me. Can I secede from the nation? Only through immigration, and where else is there to go? Countries are all imperfect. I could emigrate to lands I think are prettier in some way, but those lands all have their moral cancers as well. And with the Church, where is there to go? To secede from one and walk to another, which has its own sins. To what end? The Catholic Church does state the moral law correctly, and does state the proper relationship of man to God, and does correctly identify the nature of revealed things. It has preserved the canons. In most respects, the Church is like the Temple was at the time of Jesus - the "real thing", and the real place for tithes and sacrifices under the Law, but whose personnel were fallible and not to be trusted where their teachings departed from the moral law as expounded by Jesus. On matters of wealth accumulation and the uses of wealth, the Catholic Church has severe problems. If one considers, for example, the Order of the Knights of Malta, whose European Members must be members of the titled nobility, or when one looks at prestigious Catholic private schools whose annual tuition is in the $25,000 range, one realizes that there is a problem in the church. The existence of such things under the Catholic banner shows a division of mind, and a lack of focus on the fundamental teachings of Jesus. This is due to the habit of jangling those Keys too much, of seeing the Power of the Keys as a plenary license to legislate and make acceptable even that which is contrary to the philosophy manifest in Christ's own direct teachings. When Catholics do this, it is offensive to me. Protestants usually cite Paul to do it, and were he here to speak himself he'd tell them that it was offensive to HIM also. Men want what they want, and what they want is power, status, prestige, honor, and wealth. And all of those things are idols that should not be sought. The Church should, instead, be doing EXACTLY what Jesus and the Apostles did in their ministry. And if the Church has great resources, then the Church should be doing MORE of it, feeding MORE people. And if stability gives it real property, that should be used to house and stabilize people, to give them security in communal faith, not in building ornate, gaudy prayer houses full of statues and paintings and other things, which are then defended as though they were the very POINT of the religion. YHWH ordained the making of the Bronze Serpent by Moses, so that was no idol. However, by Hezekiah's time the Judahites were burning candles before it and bowing and praying before it. Were they, in truth, praying to God and merely using the Bronze Serpent of Moses to focus their prayers? Perhaps. But it looked enough like idolatry to be a scandal to the King, so he had it melted down, to remove the temptation. When I look at an ornate Catholic Church, I see three-dimensional history books, not idols. But when I see people touching the feet of the statues in their prayers, I see an unhealthy attachment to the physical representation. If it's just a statue I can live with it. But when billions of dollars are locked up in ornate art, I see the Church having gone wrong, aiming at being earthly princes and not fulfilling the Prime Directive of specifically caring for the poor. Judas feigned offense at the anointing of Jesus because he wanted to steal the money for himself. My offense lies in the use of massive wealth that could rescue Christian lives for good, and pouring them instead into edifices and artifacts that then lead people to place importance in such things, when Christ gave them none. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-13   16:08:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #60. To: Vicomte13 (#27) So, what is left to any man, in a world where he himself is fallible (and has failed), where those closest to him are fallible (and have failed)? I'm not Roman Catholic, so this is an honest question. Is the Pope considered by Catholics infallible - or has that changed? Do you consider the Pope infallible? Rufus T Firefly  posted on  2015-07-15   22:16:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 60. #63. To: Rufus T Firefly (#60) The doctrine of the Catholic Church is that when the Pope speaks about certain specific issues, under certain precise conditions, that he is guided by the Holy Spirit in such a way that he cannot err - it is not really him speaking, but God inspiring him to speak. That circumstance - and ONLY that - is when the Pope speaks infallibly. It hardly ever happens. The precise wording of the doctrine is that when the Pope speaks "ex cathedra" on a matter of "faith and morals" doctrine, he speaks infallibly. Those conditions are tight. "Ex cathedra" means that the Pope has to be (figuratively) sitting on the Papal Throne, wearing the Papal garb, and speaking specifically on a fundamental doctrine that pertains to faith and morals. Thus, for example, all of the executions and horrors of history are NOT examples of the failure of infallibility, because those are "mere" disciplinary matters. (I speak of doctrine - I don't think burning people alive is "mere" anything.) There is no specific list of what constitutes matters of faith and morals, and so Catholics of different views will debate something like divorce or the all-male clergy. Popes have opinions and speak strongly, but none has formally gotten up on the Throne, speaking ex cathedra, and calling these matters explicitly matters of faith and morals. Devout Catholics will tell you that what constitutes infallible doctrine is clear. It is not. SOME things clearly ARE infallible doctrines, because they are so old and so universally believed that to attempt to change them would be heresy. An example of that would be the contents of the Apostles Creed. But then, the Orthodox and Catholic Churches split from one another over the matter of the words "and from the son" - "filioque" - in the Nicene Creed, but theologians have found ways to bridge that gap (the laity and the bulk of clergy have not, but some high theologians, including the last Pope, seem to have. The logic of Infallibility stems from two Biblical comments of Jesus. The first was that he was sending the Holy Spirit into the Church, and that therefore the gates of hell would never prevail against it. Catholics have taken that to mean that the TRUE Church can NEVER fall before the Devil, into fatal error, because Christ send the Holy Spirit to guard it, preventing the Devil from ever succeeding in that regard. The second is Jesus' grant of the "the power of the keys" to Peter, telling Peter that he was granting him "the power of the keys…to loose and to bind", and that what Peter bound on earth shall be bound in heaven, and what Peter loosed on earth shall be loosed in Heaven. The Catholics have taken this to mean that Peter - the leader of the Apostles - and the Apostles who succeeded him directly as Bishop of Rome in Apostolic Succession, have the power to legislate for the Church, and that what the Pope determines binds all on earth, and that Jesus pledged that Heaven itself would be bound by it also. Likewise, what the Pope "loosed", the strictures he removed, would not be considered by Heaven to be binding on man anymore. Thus, when the Church removed the ban on eating blood, and forbade the keeping of the Saturday Sabbath, requiring that God be worshipped on Sunday, and explicitly that Christians MUST work on Saturday - that to keep the Sabbath was a SIN - this was an example of the Pope and the Apostolate exercising the power of the keys granted by God. Because Jesus granted the power to Peter to legislate and bind heaven thereby, and because Jesus promised that the gates of Hell would never prevail against the Church, Catholics have taken the view that these two things equal infallibility. My own view: as a matter of logic, the Catholics are right. And I note that the really atrocious Popes of the past seem to have avoided making doctrinal pronouncements of the sort that would fit the definition of Infallible doctrines. All of that said, I find the confusion and rancor that the doctrine raises to render it of highly questionable value. Over the course of my life, I have been in many an argument with rabidly politicized Catholics, of whatever stripe, who start wielding infallibility as the basis of their authoritative pronouncements, as though THEY were the Pope. And yet I see many of the same sort of Catholic having meltdowns and becoming borderline sedevacantists because they don't like Francis' politics. My own PERSONAL view? When you drill down into Catholic doctrine in the Cathechism, most of it lines up with (and is based on) passages in the Bible. Those things are correct. And then there are those things that are based on miracles and revelations that have happened SINCE the Bible. Of particular note, the Marian appearance at Lourdes, which has resulted in so many hearings. The hearings are real, and can Satan cast out Satan? No. So the heailings are divine, and that means that yes, God does use Mary as an emissary. It's not in the Bible, but salvation history doesn't end with the Bible, and neither did miracles. The fact of Marian visitations, and of bread-to-blood miracles, lends divine corroboration to several Catholic doctrines that otherwise would simply hang on assertion. So where I come out is this: when the Catholic Church was killing people, those Catholics doing it were clearly in error, and the Church clearly erred. But those things are not matters of infallibility. On infallible doctrines, the ones that are apparently infallible are the ones that would seem to be infallible. If the Pope went mad and pronounced gay marriage a new infallible doctrine, it would be obvious that the Pope had gone mad. I think whatever the Pope says, given the presence of the Holy Spirit in the Church such that the gates of Hell cannot prevail against it, that I'd better listen, and listen again, and a third time. When I find I don't agree, I keep my tongue silent. I did not agree with the Pope when he opposed the American intervention in Iraq in the War on Terror. I wish I had, because the Pope was right. I think that God does give Pope's some sort of wisdom, and some sort of protection, against going up there into that chair and formally handing down absurdities, but I also think that all of the infallible doctrines concerning ancient traditions have already been established, so the only room for a new one would be in response to miracles. That's what I think. It's not the "strong version" of infallibility that devout Catholics have, but it functionally gets to nearly the same results. I considered global warming to be an utter hoax. Francis has spoken of climate change as real, and given that he's the Pope - though speaking on a matter that would not concern infallibility, I nevertheless have fallen silent on the issue and am awaiting developments. Some politically motivated scientist saying it doesn't persuade me. In fact, it makes me hostile. But if the Pope says it, that bears some silence and reflection. Because where I've opposed the Pope's views on certain issues in the past, in the fulness of time I have proved to be wrong every time, over time. And I remember those things. So I do think that yes, the Holy Spirit DOES guide the Pope, in some manner. And he's the only official in the world who - by the fact that it's HIM saying it - will cause me to stop vocalizing a position in opposition and really THINK about it, with the ASSUMPTION that I am probably in the wrong and have missed something. So yes, I do accord supernatural rectitude to the Papacy, in that regard. When the Pope comes out against my position, I generally shut up. I am hard to turn, but I won't take public stands against the Pope - all experience hath shewn ME that whenever I have, I've turned out to be wrong. And that's something. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-15 23:53:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   End Trace Mode for Comment # 60. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register]  Please report web page problems, questions and comments to webmaster@libertysflame.com