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Title: Greece news live: Greeks capitulate to austerity and external monitoring after 17 hours of late night talks end in 'a-Greek-ment'
Source: UK Telegraph
URL Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ ... hours-of-late-night-talks.html
Published: Jul 13, 2015
Author: Mehreen Khan and Ben Wright
Post Date: 2015-07-13 07:47:34 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 4050
Comments: 63

Analysis and reaction of the deal as Greek agreement is reached at last following 17 hours of tense negotiations among eurozone leaders and ministers

Latest 12.32 Why the Greeks have blinked

My colleague Szu Chan has laid out what exactly creditors are demanding from the Greeks. Key points below:

IMF involvement

PM Tsipras said he didn't want the Fund to be involved in a new rescue after their involvement is set to end in March 2016. However, any new rescue loan from the ESM requires legal involvement from the Fund. Thus: "Greece will request continued IMF support (monitoring and financing) from March 2016."

Sequestration of assets

This is a new demand that emerged from finance ministers yesterday. It would involve €50bn of Greek assets placed in a private fund and used to pay off their debts.

Mr Tsipras objected to it being placed in Luxembourg or controlled by a German state-owned bank. The fund will now be managed by the Greeks. Some of the money will also be used for growth initiatives and to recapitalise Greek banks. The initial purpose of the fund was solely to pay down their loans.

Debt relief

This one's the rub. Greeks want a clear promise to alleviate their debt burden as part of any new rescue. Last night's statement provides only a commitment to think about it should the Greeks manage to first get through all the legislative hurdles they face by Wednesday. The text reads: "the Eurogroup stands ready to consider, if necessary, possible additional measures (possible longer grace and payment periods) aiming at ensuring that gross financing needs remain at a sustainable level."

12.04 Tsipras: we avoided plan for "financial suffocation"

The Greek PM has this morning defended last night's basis for an agreement, arguing that he managed to resist measures that would have led to a collapse of the banking system.

"We found ourselves before difficult decisions, tough dilemmas. We took the responsibility of the decision in order to avert the implementation of the more extreme aims (of) the more extreme conservative circles in the European Union."

He says Greece managed to resist a request that Greece transfer public assets abroad as well as a "plan of financial suffocation and the collapse of the banking system," which he said had been "planned down to its last detail recently" and had already started to be implemented.

The PM is due to meet with his junior coalition partner and defence minister later this evening.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 35.

#1. To: cranky (#0)

This is Russia's moment, should Russia choose to seize it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-13   8:39:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

This is Russia's moment, should Russia choose to seize it.

Greece is on he hook for some 315 billion euros (down from 360 euros in 2012).

I'm note sure Putin has the money to throw at Greece especially since it would never be repaid.

cranky  posted on  2015-07-13   10:19:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: cranky, Vicomte13 (#4)

Greece is on he hook for some 315 billion euros (down from 360 euros in 2012).

Per pagan, Jewish, Christian and Muslim law, Greece is only on the hook for the principal not the interest on the loan. Interest was viewed as evil by every religion I have ever studied.

Pericles  posted on  2015-07-13   11:04:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Pericles (#5)

Interest was viewed as evil by every religion I have ever studied.

Really?

I thought just usury.

But I've never made a study of the question.

cranky  posted on  2015-07-13   12:54:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: cranky (#11)

Interest was viewed as evil by every religion I have ever studied.

Really?

I thought just usury.

But I've never made a study of the question.

Same thing. People these days assume usury is "HIGH" interest rates. It was all interests rates. Usury is just an old fashioned word for interest which probably fell out of favor and replaced with the less objectionable "interest".

Pericles  posted on  2015-07-13   13:18:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Pericles (#15)

Same thing. People these days assume usury is "HIGH" interest rates. It was all interests rates. Usury is just an old fashioned word for interest which probably fell out of favor and replaced with the less objectionable "interest".

That is contrary to what I was taught.

cranky  posted on  2015-07-13   13:20:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: cranky (#16)

Same thing. People these days assume usury is "HIGH" interest rates. It was all interests rates. Usury is just an old fashioned word for interest which probably fell out of favor and replaced with the less objectionable "interest".

That is contrary to what I was taught.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/usury/

Usury [N] [S]

the sum paid for the use of money, hence interest; not, as in the modern sense, exorbitant interest. The Jews were forbidden to exact usury ( Leviticus 25:36 Leviticus 25:37 ), only, however, in their dealings with each other ( Deuteronomy 23:19 Deuteronomy 23:20 ). The violation of this law was viewed as a great crime ( Psalms 15:5 ; Proverbs 28:8 ; Jeremiah 15:10 ). After the Return, and later, this law was much neglected ( Nehemiah 5:7 Nehemiah 5:10 ).

Pericles  posted on  2015-07-13   13:45:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Pericles (#19)

the sum paid for the use of money, hence interest

Seems counter-intuitive.

Who would assume the risk of lending money without any hope of return?

I seem to recall a distinction between legal interest and usury, that distinction being the rate demanded by the lender.

cranky  posted on  2015-07-13   14:15:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: cranky (#21) (Edited)

the sum paid for the use of money, hence interest

Seems counter-intuitive.

Who would assume the risk of lending money without any hope of return?

I seem to recall a distinction between legal interest and usury, that distinction being the rate demanded by the lender.

Usury (in the original sense of any interest) was at times denounced by a number of religious leaders and philosophers in the ancient world, including Moses, Plato, Aristotle, Cato, Cicero, Seneca, Aquinas, Muhammad, Jesus, Philo and Gautama Buddha. For example, Cato said:

"And what do you think of usury?"—"What do you think of murder?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury#Christianity

Greece is under obligation by pretty much all religious and ancient philosophies to pay back the principal and an equal share of the profit that comes form the loan but not interest (another word for usury).

I am not surprised that they don't teach this in American churches these days.

Pericles  posted on  2015-07-13   15:32:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Pericles (#26)

I am not surprised that they don't teach this in American churches these days.

The teachers may not put much stock it wikipedia.

I know I don't.

cranky  posted on  2015-07-13   16:56:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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