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Why will Kamala Harris resign from her occupancy of the Office of Vice President of the USA? Scroll down for records/details Secret Negotiations! Jill Biden’s Demands for $2B Library, Legal Immunity, and $100M Book Deal to Protect Biden Family Before Joe’s Exit AI is exhausting the power grid. Tech firms are seeking a miracle solution. Rare Van Halen Leicestershire, Donnington Park August 18, 1984 Valerie Bertinelli Cameo If you need a Good Opening for black, use this. "Arrogant Hunter Biden has never been held accountable — until now" How Republicans in Key Senate Races Are Flip-Flopping on Abortion Idaho bar sparks fury for declaring June 'Heterosexual Awesomeness Month' and giving free beers and 15% discounts to straight men Son of Buc-ee’s co-owner indicted for filming guests in the shower and having sex. He says the law makes it OK. South Africa warns US could be liable for ICC prosecution for supporting Israel Today I turned 50! 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The minute the total solar eclipse appeared over US Three Types Of People To Mark And Avoid In The Church Today Are The 4 Horsemen Of The Apocalypse About To Appear? France sends combat troops to Ukraine battlefront Facts you may not have heard about Muslims in England. George Washington University raises the Hamas flag. American Flag has been removed. Alabama students chant Take A Shower to the Hamas terrorists on campus. In Day of the Lord, 24 Church Elders with Crowns Join Jesus in His Throne In Day of the Lord, 24 Church Elders with Crowns Join Jesus in His Throne Deadly Saltwater and Deadly Fresh Water to Increase Deadly Cancers to soon Become Thing of the Past? Plague of deadly New Diseases Continues [FULL VIDEO] Police release bodycam footage of Monroe County District Attorney Sandra Doorley traffi Police clash with pro-Palestine protesters on Ohio State University campus Joe Rogan Experience #2138 - Tucker Carlson Police Dispersing Student Protesters at USC - Breaking News Coverage (College Protests) What Passover Means For The New Testament Believer Are We Closer Than Ever To The Next Pandemic? War in Ukraine Turns on Russia what happened during total solar eclipse Israel Attacks Iran, Report Says - LIVE Breaking News Coverage Earth is Scorched with Heat Antiwar Activists Chant ‘Death to America’ at Event Featuring Chicago Alderman Status: Not Logged In; Sign In International News See other International News Articles Title: Greece news live: Greeks capitulate to austerity and external monitoring after 17 hours of late night talks end in 'a-Greek-ment' Source: UK Telegraph URL Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ ... hours-of-late-night-talks.html Published: Jul 13, 2015 Author: Mehreen Khan and Ben Wright Post Date: 2015-07-13 07:47:34 by cranky Keywords: None Views: 2784 Comments: 63 Analysis and reaction of the deal as Greek agreement is reached at last following 17 hours of tense negotiations among eurozone leaders and ministers Latest 12.32 Why the Greeks have blinked My colleague Szu Chan has laid out what exactly creditors are demanding from the Greeks. Key points below: IMF involvement PM Tsipras said he didn't want the Fund to be involved in a new rescue after their involvement is set to end in March 2016. However, any new rescue loan from the ESM requires legal involvement from the Fund. Thus: "Greece will request continued IMF support (monitoring and financing) from March 2016." Sequestration of assets This is a new demand that emerged from finance ministers yesterday. It would involve €50bn of Greek assets placed in a private fund and used to pay off their debts. Mr Tsipras objected to it being placed in Luxembourg or controlled by a German state-owned bank. The fund will now be managed by the Greeks. Some of the money will also be used for growth initiatives and to recapitalise Greek banks. The initial purpose of the fund was solely to pay down their loans. Debt relief This one's the rub. Greeks want a clear promise to alleviate their debt burden as part of any new rescue. Last night's statement provides only a commitment to think about it should the Greeks manage to first get through all the legislative hurdles they face by Wednesday. The text reads: "the Eurogroup stands ready to consider, if necessary, possible additional measures (possible longer grace and payment periods) aiming at ensuring that gross financing needs remain at a sustainable level." 12.04 Tsipras: we avoided plan for "financial suffocation" The Greek PM has this morning defended last night's basis for an agreement, arguing that he managed to resist measures that would have led to a collapse of the banking system. "We found ourselves before difficult decisions, tough dilemmas. We took the responsibility of the decision in order to avert the implementation of the more extreme aims (of) the more extreme conservative circles in the European Union." He says Greece managed to resist a request that Greece transfer public assets abroad as well as a "plan of financial suffocation and the collapse of the banking system," which he said had been "planned down to its last detail recently" and had already started to be implemented. The PM is due to meet with his junior coalition partner and defence minister later this evening. Click for Full Text! Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 27. #1. To: cranky (#0) This is Russia's moment, should Russia choose to seize it. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-13   8:39:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #4. To: Vicomte13 (#1) This is Russia's moment, should Russia choose to seize it. Greece is on he hook for some 315 billion euros (down from 360 euros in 2012). I'm note sure Putin has the money to throw at Greece especially since it would never be repaid. cranky  posted on  2015-07-13   10:19:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: cranky, Vicomte13 (#4) Greece is on he hook for some 315 billion euros (down from 360 euros in 2012). Per pagan, Jewish, Christian and Muslim law, Greece is only on the hook for the principal not the interest on the loan. Interest was viewed as evil by every religion I have ever studied. Pericles  posted on  2015-07-13   11:04:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: Pericles, cranky, Vicomte13, redleghunter (#5) Interest was viewed as evil by every religion I have ever studied. Well then, try borrowing money from the Vatican. SOSO  posted on  2015-07-13   12:34:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #12. To: SOSO, Pericles, APole, cranky, Vicomte13, redleghunter (#9) (Pericles: "Interest was viewed as evil by every religion I have ever studied.") Well then, try borrowing money from the Vatican. Oh, that's gonna leave a mark. Yes, maybe that famous Marxist humanitarian and anti-capitalist lecturer -- Pope Franko -- will authorize the HUGE Vatican vault to the Vatican Bank and "kinda, sorta help spread the wealth around." The vast Vatican holdings of gazillions in unknown massive quantities of cash, baubles, art, and real estate are just sitting there...collecting interest and appreciating in this capitalist world. Fancy that! So let's all expect that Greece (as well as the rest of the world's poor and poverty-stricken people) will be able to dine their next meal (instead of catching it with a fly-swatter or mouse-trap.) We can expect this because this lecturing, chastising Pope (as "Vicar of Christ") is compelled to emulate the charity and generosity Christ, while the Vatican is the so-called "center of "Christ's Church"... NOT. NOT. NOT. Liberator  posted on  2015-07-13   13:00:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: Liberator (#12) Yes, maybe that famous Marxist humanitarian and anti-capitalist lecturer -- Pope Franko -- will authorize the HUGE Vatican vault to the Vatican Bank and "kinda, sorta help spread the wealth around." The vast Vatican holdings of gazillions in unknown massive quantities of cash, baubles, art, and real estate are just sitting there...collecting interest and appreciating in this capitalist world. Good idea, and very fitting since the bulk of the wealth came from slave labor in the Americas. The Marxist Pope can return the fruits of labor stolen under the encomienda system to the descendants of those who performed the forced labor. The Pope's followers love to point out the speck of sawdust in Protestant eyes (although strangely silent on the subject of Congregationalist slave ship owners) while having a huge log in their own eye, the Vatican's store of stolen wealth resulting from slave labor. Followers of Francis, do not be like the Pharisees boasting in the temple of how righteous they were. Don't talk the talk, walk the walk. Return your Church's stolen wealth to those it was stolen from. nativist nationalist  posted on  2015-07-13   13:24:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: nativist nationalist (#17) Followers of Francis, do not be like the Pharisees boasting in the temple of how righteous they were. Don't talk the talk, walk the walk. Return your Church's stolen wealth to those it was stolen from. I don't have the power to divest the Catholic Church of its assets. If I did, I would methodically sell off the vast real estate holdings of the Church, sell the art treasures to museums, to the extent they could be so sold, and convert vast, cavernous religious buildings into places of residence, food, showers and health clincs for people. There would be no such thing as a Catholic homeless person, because the Church would house the Catholic poor, and other poor as well, in those assets that it did not sell. All around the world. Cash and securities endowments, and all other accumulations of wealth, plus the capital raised by the sale of these assets, would go first to stabilize and regularize the church on its smaller footprint, to make sure that all of these churches-cum-residences were in repair, etc. And the rest would be dedicated to systematically rescuing Catholics throughout the world - all of those poor slave girls in Filipino and Latin American brothels, for instance, and all of those mothers teetering on the brink of abortion. The Middle Eastern Christians and Sudanese who need to get out of there, Catholics facing oppression in various African countries. There is a world full of flesh and blood Christians who need help RIGHT NOW. Jesus and the Apostles ate with people directly, and provided direct aid. They didn't raise money to build fixed structures for worship, to fill up with statues and paintings. The Church grew by having the MESSAGE, not stunning art and impressive buildings. The impressive buildings are a drain now that they're empty, and all of the holdings are a distraction. People look at all of that worldly wealth, and they ask why it is not dedicated, instead to the poor. And they're right. It ought to be. There are always excuses, but those excuses are not acceptable. They always come down to the Right Hand knowing what the Left is doing, and that is not the way that Jesus said to be. So, that's what I would do with all of that money, if I were the head of the Church and had the power to sell off the assets and end the scandal of the vast accumulation of wealth. But I don't. And so once again, as with the city of my birth, and the state, and the county, and the military in which I served, and the various businesses for which I have worked in the past, I find myself in an organization that has stated ideals I accept and agree with, but whose men always make immoral shortcuts, and do the wrong thing, and build edifices on foundations of sand, and monuments with feet of clay. I agree, don't talk the talk, walk the walk. However, what can I do about the Catholic Church's errors. No more than I can do anything about the errors of the United States, or the State of Michigan or Connecticut, or the Cities of Detroit or New York, or the Navy. All I can do is point out the weakness and sin and say what OUGHT to be done. The only realm that I control is my own flesh and my family, and I do not completely control even those. I cannot choose my next breath, and God can turn off my heartbeat any time he wants. I can lead and admonish my wife and child, but I cannot FORCE them to agree. So, what is left to any man, in a world where he himself is fallible (and has failed), where those closest to him are fallible (and have failed)? To walk away from all other people to live in a tent in the desert? What would that do? It would do gteater evil, for family depend on me. Can I secede from the nation? Only through immigration, and where else is there to go? Countries are all imperfect. I could emigrate to lands I think are prettier in some way, but those lands all have their moral cancers as well. And with the Church, where is there to go? To secede from one and walk to another, which has its own sins. To what end? The Catholic Church does state the moral law correctly, and does state the proper relationship of man to God, and does correctly identify the nature of revealed things. It has preserved the canons. In most respects, the Church is like the Temple was at the time of Jesus - the "real thing", and the real place for tithes and sacrifices under the Law, but whose personnel were fallible and not to be trusted where their teachings departed from the moral law as expounded by Jesus. On matters of wealth accumulation and the uses of wealth, the Catholic Church has severe problems. If one considers, for example, the Order of the Knights of Malta, whose European Members must be members of the titled nobility, or when one looks at prestigious Catholic private schools whose annual tuition is in the $25,000 range, one realizes that there is a problem in the church. The existence of such things under the Catholic banner shows a division of mind, and a lack of focus on the fundamental teachings of Jesus. This is due to the habit of jangling those Keys too much, of seeing the Power of the Keys as a plenary license to legislate and make acceptable even that which is contrary to the philosophy manifest in Christ's own direct teachings. When Catholics do this, it is offensive to me. Protestants usually cite Paul to do it, and were he here to speak himself he'd tell them that it was offensive to HIM also. Men want what they want, and what they want is power, status, prestige, honor, and wealth. And all of those things are idols that should not be sought. The Church should, instead, be doing EXACTLY what Jesus and the Apostles did in their ministry. And if the Church has great resources, then the Church should be doing MORE of it, feeding MORE people. And if stability gives it real property, that should be used to house and stabilize people, to give them security in communal faith, not in building ornate, gaudy prayer houses full of statues and paintings and other things, which are then defended as though they were the very POINT of the religion. YHWH ordained the making of the Bronze Serpent by Moses, so that was no idol. However, by Hezekiah's time the Judahites were burning candles before it and bowing and praying before it. Were they, in truth, praying to God and merely using the Bronze Serpent of Moses to focus their prayers? Perhaps. But it looked enough like idolatry to be a scandal to the King, so he had it melted down, to remove the temptation. When I look at an ornate Catholic Church, I see three-dimensional history books, not idols. But when I see people touching the feet of the statues in their prayers, I see an unhealthy attachment to the physical representation. If it's just a statue I can live with it. But when billions of dollars are locked up in ornate art, I see the Church having gone wrong, aiming at being earthly princes and not fulfilling the Prime Directive of specifically caring for the poor. Judas feigned offense at the anointing of Jesus because he wanted to steal the money for himself. My offense lies in the use of massive wealth that could rescue Christian lives for good, and pouring them instead into edifices and artifacts that then lead people to place importance in such things, when Christ gave them none. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-13   16:08:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 27. #32. To: Vicomte13, nativist nationalist (#27) (Edited) The Catholic Church does not own art. It owns religious works of extreme beauty. Just because secularist assign a monetary value on them over a religious one does not negate this. Don't let American thinking (Sell the art for cash) cloud the reason for the art. In Orthodox traditions the icons are holy items that are a gateway to the saints they represent and to understanding the New Testament in this world. They are part of the church the way parts of a motor are to the whole mechanism. The carved statues and paintings of the Catholic church serve the same purpose. Pericles  posted on  2015-07-13 16:40:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #60. To: Vicomte13 (#27) So, what is left to any man, in a world where he himself is fallible (and has failed), where those closest to him are fallible (and have failed)? I'm not Roman Catholic, so this is an honest question. Is the Pope considered by Catholics infallible - or has that changed? Do you consider the Pope infallible? Rufus T Firefly  posted on  2015-07-15 22:16:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   End Trace Mode for Comment # 27. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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