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Title: Greece news live: Greeks capitulate to austerity and external monitoring after 17 hours of late night talks end in 'a-Greek-ment'
Source: UK Telegraph
URL Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ ... hours-of-late-night-talks.html
Published: Jul 13, 2015
Author: Mehreen Khan and Ben Wright
Post Date: 2015-07-13 07:47:34 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 4044
Comments: 63

Analysis and reaction of the deal as Greek agreement is reached at last following 17 hours of tense negotiations among eurozone leaders and ministers

Latest 12.32 Why the Greeks have blinked

My colleague Szu Chan has laid out what exactly creditors are demanding from the Greeks. Key points below:

IMF involvement

PM Tsipras said he didn't want the Fund to be involved in a new rescue after their involvement is set to end in March 2016. However, any new rescue loan from the ESM requires legal involvement from the Fund. Thus: "Greece will request continued IMF support (monitoring and financing) from March 2016."

Sequestration of assets

This is a new demand that emerged from finance ministers yesterday. It would involve €50bn of Greek assets placed in a private fund and used to pay off their debts.

Mr Tsipras objected to it being placed in Luxembourg or controlled by a German state-owned bank. The fund will now be managed by the Greeks. Some of the money will also be used for growth initiatives and to recapitalise Greek banks. The initial purpose of the fund was solely to pay down their loans.

Debt relief

This one's the rub. Greeks want a clear promise to alleviate their debt burden as part of any new rescue. Last night's statement provides only a commitment to think about it should the Greeks manage to first get through all the legislative hurdles they face by Wednesday. The text reads: "the Eurogroup stands ready to consider, if necessary, possible additional measures (possible longer grace and payment periods) aiming at ensuring that gross financing needs remain at a sustainable level."

12.04 Tsipras: we avoided plan for "financial suffocation"

The Greek PM has this morning defended last night's basis for an agreement, arguing that he managed to resist measures that would have led to a collapse of the banking system.

"We found ourselves before difficult decisions, tough dilemmas. We took the responsibility of the decision in order to avert the implementation of the more extreme aims (of) the more extreme conservative circles in the European Union."

He says Greece managed to resist a request that Greece transfer public assets abroad as well as a "plan of financial suffocation and the collapse of the banking system," which he said had been "planned down to its last detail recently" and had already started to be implemented.

The PM is due to meet with his junior coalition partner and defence minister later this evening.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 22.

#1. To: cranky (#0)

This is Russia's moment, should Russia choose to seize it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-13   8:39:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

This is Russia's moment, should Russia choose to seize it.

Greece is on he hook for some 315 billion euros (down from 360 euros in 2012).

I'm note sure Putin has the money to throw at Greece especially since it would never be repaid.

cranky  posted on  2015-07-13   10:19:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: cranky, Vicomte13 (#4)

Greece is on he hook for some 315 billion euros (down from 360 euros in 2012).

Per pagan, Jewish, Christian and Muslim law, Greece is only on the hook for the principal not the interest on the loan. Interest was viewed as evil by every religion I have ever studied.

Pericles  posted on  2015-07-13   11:04:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Pericles, cranky, Vicomte13, redleghunter (#5)

Interest was viewed as evil by every religion I have ever studied.

Well then, try borrowing money from the Vatican.

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-13   12:34:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: SOSO, Pericles, APole, cranky, Vicomte13, redleghunter (#9)

(Pericles: "Interest was viewed as evil by every religion I have ever studied.")

Well then, try borrowing money from the Vatican.

Oh, that's gonna leave a mark.

Yes, maybe that famous Marxist humanitarian and anti-capitalist lecturer -- Pope Franko -- will authorize the HUGE Vatican vault to the Vatican Bank and "kinda, sorta help spread the wealth around." The vast Vatican holdings of gazillions in unknown massive quantities of cash, baubles, art, and real estate are just sitting there...collecting interest and appreciating in this capitalist world. Fancy that! So let's all expect that Greece (as well as the rest of the world's poor and poverty-stricken people) will be able to dine their next meal (instead of catching it with a fly-swatter or mouse-trap.)

We can expect this because this lecturing, chastising Pope (as "Vicar of Christ") is compelled to emulate the charity and generosity Christ, while the Vatican is the so-called "center of "Christ's Church"...

NOT. NOT. NOT.

Liberator  posted on  2015-07-13   13:00:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Liberator (#12)

Yes, maybe that famous Marxist humanitarian and anti-capitalist lecturer -- Pope Franko -- will authorize the HUGE Vatican vault to the Vatican Bank and "kinda, sorta help spread the wealth around." The vast Vatican holdings of gazillions in unknown massive quantities of cash, baubles, art, and real estate are just sitting there...collecting interest and appreciating in this capitalist world.

Good idea, and very fitting since the bulk of the wealth came from slave labor in the Americas. The Marxist Pope can return the fruits of labor stolen under the encomienda system to the descendants of those who performed the forced labor. The Pope's followers love to point out the speck of sawdust in Protestant eyes (although strangely silent on the subject of Congregationalist slave ship owners) while having a huge log in their own eye, the Vatican's store of stolen wealth resulting from slave labor.

Followers of Francis, do not be like the Pharisees boasting in the temple of how righteous they were. Don't talk the talk, walk the walk. Return your Church's stolen wealth to those it was stolen from.

nativist nationalist  posted on  2015-07-13   13:24:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: nativist nationalist, redleghunter, Vicomte13 (#17) (Edited)

The Marxist Pope can return the fruits of labor stolen under the encomienda system to the descendants of those who performed the forced labor.

The Pope's followers love to point out the speck of sawdust in Protestant eyes (although strangely silent on the subject of Congregationalist slave ship owners) while having a huge log in their own eye, the Vatican's store of stolen wealth resulting from slave labor.

But...but...the Vatican's vast and centuries accrued wealth as a result of "slave" labor, Indulgences, and imposed "Soul Taxes" have all merely been considered "donations" to God Himself, saving souls, and spreading the Gospel.

Protestants are no better than heathens.

OH WAIT.

Liberator  posted on  2015-07-13   14:21:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 22.

#23. To: Liberator (#22)

But...but...the Vatican's vast and centuries accrued wealth as a result of "slave" labor, Indulgences, and imposed "Soul Taxes" have all merely been considered "donations" to God Himself, saving souls, and spreading the Gospel.

It almost seems like a form of rent seeking. I recall that when Christ transpired upon the cross the curtain in the temple was torn, signifying that man now had a direct channel to God. This was grace it was unearned. It is something like when Naaman was cured of leprosy by bathing 7 times in the Jordan, as directed by Elisha. Naaman offered payment, but Elisha refused (2nd King 5:16). Elisha's servant Gehazi decided that Naaman's wallet needed to be lighted a bit, to the benefit of Gehazi.

2 Kings 5:20-26
20 Gehazi, the servant of Elisha the man of God, said to himself, “My master was too easy on Naaman, this Aramean, by not accepting from him what he brought. As surely as the Lord lives, I will run after him and get something from him.”
21 So Gehazi hurried after Naaman. When Naaman saw him running toward him, he got down from the chariot to meet him. “Is everything all right?” he asked.
22 “Everything is all right,” Gehazi answered. “My master sent me to say, ‘Two young men from the company of the prophets have just come to me from the hill country of Ephraim. Please give them a talentd of silver and two sets of clothing."
23 “By all means, take two talents,” said Naaman. He urged Gehazi to accept them, and then tied up the two talents of silver in two bags, with two sets of clothing. He gave them to two of his servants, and they carried them ahead of Gehazi.
24 When Gehazi came to the hill, he took the things from the servants and put them away in the house. He sent the men away and they left.
25 When he went in and stood before his master, Elisha asked him, “Where have you been, Gehazi?” “Your servant didn’t go anywhere,” Gehazi answered.
26 But Elisha said to him, “Was not my spirit with you when the man got down from his chariot to meet you? Is this the time to take money or to accept clothes—or olive groves and vineyards, or flocks and herds, or male and female slaves?

I don't see how the concept of mankind needing the services of a Potifex Maxims to intercede with God on our behalf is any different from the greed of Gehazi. Both sought rent from that which was freely given by God, reaping a harvest where they did not sow. And the concept of Papal infallibility (e.g Bulls of Donation) was used to justify the slave used in the the America's to extract the wealth using slave labor, with the Vatican being cut in on the action. Both seemed far more interested in the profits than they were the prophets.

nativist nationalist  posted on  2015-07-13 14:42:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 22.

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